the idea of turning the display on this imac into an option is positively preposterous.
the sub 1000 market is clearly defined by schiller already, so there's little sense in speculating something new will come out. especially something so outlandish as a monitorless imac. people aren't stupid. give them a sub 1000 dollar computer and not give them a monitor and, you know, they're gonna notice. to be truly sub 1K, the cpu'd have to be around 500 dollars. ain't gonna happen
i do imagine a down the road option of an imac 2.0 with a 17" lcd is finally reasonable. given the arm can support the added weight, there aren't the major setbacks that existed with the old imac. (for that, an increase in the monitor size would have necessitated a serious overhaul of the computer's design - at least internally - to work)
i like the all in one idea for consumers. i'm not gonna check this out myself, but i am reasonably sure that the ratio of external drives to internal ones is vastly in favor of external. considering apple is peddling firewire like mad, offering internal upgrade options for hardware makes no sense.
further, apple's firewire is much better designed for external use and, assuming my logical mind is right, gigawire will make firewire better than most internal connections anyway. (for the record, my bets for gigawire is that it is a renamed firewire2. firewire2 was supposed to be 800MBPs transfer if i recall and if they were to increase this just a little further, it'd be in the giga rate of transfer range. make sense?)
Or, add a drive bay and some PCI slots and tack on another $200.
There's no way anyone could rationally argue that $200 isn't enough to cover the cost and profit margins on this mythical machine. </strong><hr></blockquote>
There's no room, the machine and the internal busses, cooling, etc. are designed to fit what is in there. Changing the design to fit an extra drive, and especially a PCI card would cost a lot more than $200. You're thinking of a different machine.
It definitely wouldn't be in the iMac shell and it definitely wouldn't be called an iMac. That's why I called it mythical hardware.
WIthout the added PCI slot or drive bay, it could keep the same form factor. As for the name, I wouldn't really care.
My point is that the $1299 iMac without a screen is a great machine that, based on Apple's own prices, would cost the consumer less than $800. That machine also has a market that Apple is ignoring.
Maybe once a G5 is introduced, the space for this machine will open up in Apple's plans. I still see room for 3 products because two is too limiting. iMac G4, Prosumer G4 w/slower bus (mini-tower?), PowerMac G5 (full tower).
Realistically, when the G5 is available, why wouldn't Apple do this? There is enough differentiation between the products to avoid substantial overlap and that middle product would entice slightly tech savvy Windows users over to the Mac.
My point is that the $1299 iMac without a screen is a great machine that, based on Apple's own prices, would cost the consumer less than $800. That machine also has a market that Apple is ignoring.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Excactly my point too ... but why does nobody think, they will do this?
[quote]Originally posted by bunge:
<strong>
Maybe once a G5 is introduced, the space for this machine will open up in Apple's plans. I still see room for 3 products because two is too limiting. iMac G4, Prosumer G4 w/slower bus (mini-tower?), PowerMac G5 (full tower).
</strong><hr></blockquote>
well - as far as i can tell - these Prosumer Machines would sell like crazy here...
there are many, many people out there who want the Mac for its useability and stable OS. but they won't afford those 1300 bucks for buying it. they will buy a mac for sub $1000 without this 15"-CRT ....
there are just too many things you could do with such a machine and a bigger monitor.
give them a sub 1000 dollar computer and not give them a monitor and, you know, they're gonna notice. to be truly sub 1K, the cpu'd have to be around 500 dollars. ain't gonna happen
<hr></blockquote>
Well most users out there ALREADY have a monitor! If Apple releases a iMac without a LCD for less money, they may reach customers, who won't spend $1299. As others pointed out: Apple want's to reach the 95% that don't have a mac. These 95% work different then the Apple market. SJ finally has to accept this. Especially in Europe are much more people who build their own boxes out of components. They will _never_ buy an all in one or spend so much money for a PowerMac. Apple has offer something which fits their needs and not what SJ thinks is right for them.
Imagine that the PMs have been upgraded sufficiantly, and they are on equal ground (price to power) with the new iMacs.
CRT iMac 1 .............$799
CRT iMac 2 ............. 999
iMac ][ 1 .............. 1299
iMac ][ 2 .............. 1499
iMac ][ 3 .............. 1799
G4 1 w/Mon 15" ......... 2299 (1699+600)
G4 1 w/Mon 17" ......... 2699 (1699+1000)
G4 2 w/Mon 15" ......... 3099 (2499+600)
G4 2 w/Mon 17" ......... 3499 (2499+1000)
G4 3 w/Mon 15" ......... 4099 (3499+600)
G4 3 w/Mon 17" ......... 4499 (3499+1000)
Basically, on the low end, the price jumps between 2 and 3 hundred for each level. On the high end, it jusmps 4-5 hundred.
There is room for ONE other comptuer type in the middle between the best iMac and the worse PM w/Monitor. But the monitors will drop, and the 15" will probably cost $400, so the space will close.
The price spaces must be at least $200 per machine.
Comments
the idea of turning the display on this imac into an option is positively preposterous.
the sub 1000 market is clearly defined by schiller already, so there's little sense in speculating something new will come out. especially something so outlandish as a monitorless imac. people aren't stupid. give them a sub 1000 dollar computer and not give them a monitor and, you know, they're gonna notice. to be truly sub 1K, the cpu'd have to be around 500 dollars. ain't gonna happen
i do imagine a down the road option of an imac 2.0 with a 17" lcd is finally reasonable. given the arm can support the added weight, there aren't the major setbacks that existed with the old imac. (for that, an increase in the monitor size would have necessitated a serious overhaul of the computer's design - at least internally - to work)
i like the all in one idea for consumers. i'm not gonna check this out myself, but i am reasonably sure that the ratio of external drives to internal ones is vastly in favor of external. considering apple is peddling firewire like mad, offering internal upgrade options for hardware makes no sense.
further, apple's firewire is much better designed for external use and, assuming my logical mind is right, gigawire will make firewire better than most internal connections anyway. (for the record, my bets for gigawire is that it is a renamed firewire2. firewire2 was supposed to be 800MBPs transfer if i recall and if they were to increase this just a little further, it'd be in the giga rate of transfer range. make sense?)
<strong>
Or, add a drive bay and some PCI slots and tack on another $200.
There's no way anyone could rationally argue that $200 isn't enough to cover the cost and profit margins on this mythical machine. </strong><hr></blockquote>
There's no room, the machine and the internal busses, cooling, etc. are designed to fit what is in there. Changing the design to fit an extra drive, and especially a PCI card would cost a lot more than $200. You're thinking of a different machine.
Michael
WIthout the added PCI slot or drive bay, it could keep the same form factor. As for the name, I wouldn't really care.
My point is that the $1299 iMac without a screen is a great machine that, based on Apple's own prices, would cost the consumer less than $800. That machine also has a market that Apple is ignoring.
Maybe once a G5 is introduced, the space for this machine will open up in Apple's plans. I still see room for 3 products because two is too limiting. iMac G4, Prosumer G4 w/slower bus (mini-tower?), PowerMac G5 (full tower).
Realistically, when the G5 is available, why wouldn't Apple do this? There is enough differentiation between the products to avoid substantial overlap and that middle product would entice slightly tech savvy Windows users over to the Mac.
<strong>
My point is that the $1299 iMac without a screen is a great machine that, based on Apple's own prices, would cost the consumer less than $800. That machine also has a market that Apple is ignoring.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Excactly my point too ... but why does nobody think, they will do this?
[quote]Originally posted by bunge:
<strong>
Maybe once a G5 is introduced, the space for this machine will open up in Apple's plans. I still see room for 3 products because two is too limiting. iMac G4, Prosumer G4 w/slower bus (mini-tower?), PowerMac G5 (full tower).
</strong><hr></blockquote>
well - as far as i can tell - these Prosumer Machines would sell like crazy here...
there are many, many people out there who want the Mac for its useability and stable OS. but they won't afford those 1300 bucks for buying it. they will buy a mac for sub $1000 without this 15"-CRT ....
there are just too many things you could do with such a machine and a bigger monitor.
[ 01-09-2002: Message edited by: Krassy ]</p>
give them a sub 1000 dollar computer and not give them a monitor and, you know, they're gonna notice. to be truly sub 1K, the cpu'd have to be around 500 dollars. ain't gonna happen
<hr></blockquote>
Well most users out there ALREADY have a monitor! If Apple releases a iMac without a LCD for less money, they may reach customers, who won't spend $1299. As others pointed out: Apple want's to reach the 95% that don't have a mac. These 95% work different then the Apple market. SJ finally has to accept this. Especially in Europe are much more people who build their own boxes out of components. They will _never_ buy an all in one or spend so much money for a PowerMac. Apple has offer something which fits their needs and not what SJ thinks is right for them.
End of Line
CRT iMac 1 .............$799
CRT iMac 2 ............. 999
iMac ][ 1 .............. 1299
iMac ][ 2 .............. 1499
iMac ][ 3 .............. 1799
G4 1 w/Mon 15" ......... 2299 (1699+600)
G4 1 w/Mon 17" ......... 2699 (1699+1000)
G4 2 w/Mon 15" ......... 3099 (2499+600)
G4 2 w/Mon 17" ......... 3499 (2499+1000)
G4 3 w/Mon 15" ......... 4099 (3499+600)
G4 3 w/Mon 17" ......... 4499 (3499+1000)
Basically, on the low end, the price jumps between 2 and 3 hundred for each level. On the high end, it jusmps 4-5 hundred.
There is room for ONE other comptuer type in the middle between the best iMac and the worse PM w/Monitor. But the monitors will drop, and the 15" will probably cost $400, so the space will close.
The price spaces must be at least $200 per machine.
Andrew
[ 01-09-2002: Message edited by: amidala ]</p>