Apple's PA Semi buyout motivated by assets, not products

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  • Reply 61 of 105
    mr. memr. me Posts: 3,219member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by la_ray View Post


    I work for the defense industry and I don't mind making weapons. Actually, I wouldn't mind if our weapons kill you either. Go hug a tree.



    You joined AppleInsider to make this your first post?
  • Reply 62 of 105
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,323member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by winterspan View Post


    All this war talk that got injected into this thread is unnecessary and irrelevant. This is not the proper time nor place for this type of discussion. That being said, your comment was totally out of line, ...



    You were way ahead at this point, but then your comments went downhill real fast.



    As you said his, (and your comments) were?"unnecessary and irrelevant".



    You both owe an apology.
  • Reply 63 of 105
    macroninmacronin Posts: 1,132member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Programmer View Post


    ?pause to consider that your country's military is also tasked with defending your way of life.



    Bam! There it is, the naked, ugly truth.



    I think these two quotes from Orwell say it best:



    "All the war-propaganda, all the screaming and lies and hatred, comes invariably from people who are not fighting."



    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
  • Reply 64 of 105
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MacRonin View Post


    I think these two quotes from Orwell say it best:



    "All the war-propaganda, all the screaming and lies and hatred, comes invariably from people who are not fighting."



    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."



    I think Jack NIcholson as Col. Jessep in A Few Good Men said it best.
    You can't handle the truth! Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You?! You, [Virgil-TB2]?! I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for [peace] and you curse the Marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that [computer parts used for the military], while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives! You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall! You need me on that wall! We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline! I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it! I would rather you just said, "Thank you," and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to!
  • Reply 65 of 105
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    Quote:

    I can't find a reason for this. The word is out that they don't want the products, so what else is left? Expertise? That's what the word is. But for what?



    You are looking at this as though Apple will eventually move ever product to x86. Perhaps they won't. This acquisition makes sense if Apple were aiming for more differentiation in hardware.



    The acquisition of PA Semi was spearheaded by Apple Senior Vice President Tony Fadell. Who is the head of Apple's iPod division. Apple's iPod division makes about half of the company's revenues. All of the products in the iPod division use embedded processors.



    PA Semi engineers likely have the skill to design more specialized and energy efficient chips than the off the shelf system on a chip from Samsung. A customized chip would also make it impossible for competitors to crack open an Apple product and basically design a similar device with the exact same hardware.



    Quote:

    I remember a few years back that Apple bought a gpu design firm. But nothing came from that either. People here were predicting great new gpu's from Apple as other companies weren't making boards for Apple (other than ATI). What happened? Nothing!



    That could have been some idea that Apple later decided not to pursue. Apple is so frugal on acquisitions right now it seems unlikely they would make one for no reason. It is true though we may never really know what that reason is.
  • Reply 66 of 105
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,323member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post


    You are looking at this as though Apple will eventually move ever product to x86. Perhaps they won't. This acquisition makes sense if Apple were aiming for more differentiation in hardware.



    The acquisition of PA Semi was spearheaded by Apple Senior Vice President Tony Fadell. Who is the head of Apple's iPod division. Apple's iPod division makes about half of the company's revenues. All of the products in the iPod division use embedded processors.



    PA Semi engineers likely have the skill to design more specialized and energy efficient chips than the off the shelf system on a chip from Samsung. A customized chip would also make it impossible for competitors to crack open an Apple product and basically design a similar device with the exact same hardware.







    That could have been some idea that Apple later decided not to pursue. Apple is so frugal on acquisitions right now it seems unlikely they would make one for no reason. It is true though we may never really know what that reason is.



    A lot of what's being written in this thread is ignoring the reality of the deal. Much has already been written about the direct situation. Go here:



    http://www.eetimes.com/news/latest/s...leID=207401605



    Notice the statement put out by PA Semi several days BEFORE the announced acquisition. This and a couple of other statements are the cause of the concern, and the reason for what I'm saying.
  • Reply 67 of 105
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    Quote:

    Notice the statement put out by PA Semi several days BEFORE the announced acquisition. This and a couple of other statements are the cause of the concern, and the reason for what I'm saying.



    So far its only speculation that the DoD would actually attempt to do anything to disrupt the deal. I don't think this is necessarily something to ring alarm bells about. Since Apple has no intention of using the chips that the military needs. It should be no problem for them to sell that IP to another chip maker.
  • Reply 68 of 105
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    Jobs confirms the point of the acquisition:



    "Jobs said Apple acquired P.A. Semi mainly for its chip designers and suggested it will rely on P.A. Semi’s expertise primarily for portable electronics devices like the iPod and iPhone for which Intel doesn’t currently supply chips (though they would like to). Jobs says Apple has long been involved in custom designing chips for iPhones and iPods and P.A. Semi will help enhance its capacity to do so."
  • Reply 69 of 105
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,323member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post


    So far its only speculation that the DoD would actually attempt to do anything to disrupt the deal. I don't think this is necessarily something to ring alarm bells about. Since Apple has no intention of using the chips that the military needs. It should be no problem for them to sell that IP to another chip maker.



    That's not the point for my argument. Mine is that the chips aren't wanted by Apple, so as none of their products are wanted, then what expertise is Apple wanting from them?

    Apple isn't about to design a whole new cpu and system. That would be insane!
  • Reply 70 of 105
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,323member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post


    Jobs confirms the point of the acquisition:



    "Jobs said Apple acquired P.A. Semi mainly for its chip designers and suggested it will rely on P.A. Semi?s expertise primarily for portable electronics devices like the iPod and iPhone for which Intel doesn?t currently supply chips (though they would like to). Jobs says Apple has long been involved in custom designing chips for iPhones and iPods and P.A. Semi will help enhance its capacity to do so."



    I would like to see an actual quote, as this doesn't say anything other than boilerplate.
  • Reply 71 of 105
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    Quote:

    That's not the point for my argument. Mine is that the chips aren't wanted by Apple, so as none of their products are wanted, then what expertise is Apple wanting from them?Apple isn't about to design a whole new cpu and system. That would be insane!



    PA Semi engineers likely already have the chips designed. Apple will partner with a manufacturer to make them. That's pretty much the way Apple makes all of their products.





    I doubt the Wall Street Journal would fabricate such a specific statement from Steve Jobs. But you are free to believe what you want.
  • Reply 72 of 105
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,323member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post


    PA Semi engineers likely already have the chips designed. Apple will partner with a manufacturer to make them. That's pretty much the way Apple makes all of their products.





    I doubt the Wall Street Journal would fabricate such a specific statement from Steve Jobs. But you are free to believe what you want.



    I read that quote, but it still says nothing. It's a generalized quote. They have to say something about the purchase. Designing chips could mean anything.



    If Jobs said that they were going to make their own chip designs for their phones etc, then I would think it means something. But this is just too mushy to tell what is going to happen.
  • Reply 73 of 105
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    Quote:

    I read that quote, but it still says nothing. It's a generalized quote. They have to say something about the purchase. Designing chips could mean anything.



    If Jobs said that they were going to make their own chip designs for their phones etc, then I would think it means something. But this is just too mushy to tell what is going to happen.



    Well of course if Apple has some exciting surprise they are going to wait and showcase it. He isn't going to spill it in a blurb.



    What we do know is Apple has acquired 150 person in-house embedded CPU design team for the iPhone and iPod. We know they will have to partner with someone to actually fab the designs. PA Semi has design expertise with PPC and ARM. We know Apple is not going to use PPC.



    I think that amount of information does not leave a great deal of ambiguity.
  • Reply 74 of 105
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post


    Well of course if Apple has some exciting surprise they are going to wait and showcase it. He isn't going to spill it in a blurb.

    [...]

    I think that amount of information does not leave a great deal of ambiguity.



    I just got some insider information. Apple bought P.A. Semi mainly for their staff, but not for their chip design knowledge and experience. It turns out that they have really good soft ball players and Apple didn't want to lose again to Google at the annual picnic party.
  • Reply 75 of 105
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,323member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post


    Well of course if Apple has some exciting surprise they are going to wait and showcase it. He isn't going to spill it in a blurb.



    What we do know is Apple has acquired 150 person in-house embedded CPU design team for the iPhone and iPod. We know they will have to partner with someone to actually fab the designs. PA Semi has design expertise with PPC and ARM. We know Apple is not going to use PPC.



    I think that amount of information does not leave a great deal of ambiguity.



    Those are assumptions. They may be correct, but we don't yet know.
  • Reply 76 of 105
    k_munick_munic Posts: 357member
    one word:

    Dongle



    homebrewing a chip allows Apple to have a 100% control about 'Frankenmacs' and 'Jailbreaks' ..

    that simple ..-
  • Reply 77 of 105
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by k_munic View Post


    one word:

    Dongle



    homebrewing a chip allows Apple to have a 100% control about 'Frankenmacs' and 'Jailbreaks' ..

    that simple ..-



    That's true, but I think that aspect of it might be more pointed to keep Mobile OS X from being hacked on other capacitance touch devices which are coming out now.
  • Reply 78 of 105
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    Quote:

    Those are assumptions. They may be correct, but we don't yet know.



    Exactly what part of that statement is assumption that cannot be backed up with information from the sources?
  • Reply 79 of 105
    onlookeronlooker Posts: 5,252member
    MacWorld Came to the same conclusion I did, only MW does it days later.
  • Reply 80 of 105
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 30,558member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by onlooker View Post


    MacWorld Came to the same conclusion I did, only MW does it days later.



    Quote:

    MW sez: "Instead, it bought the engineering expertise and low-power savvy of that company’s 150-person team in order to better work with suppliers such as Intel."



    To me, this just shows that MacWorld has no clue. Apple buys the talent and processes to create all new architectures. Why in the world would they want to hand over their innovations/breakthroughs to Intel after all is said and done. Apple wants to dominate in another area of their business and beat Intel at it's own game. That's pure Steveness. Apple moves from partner to partner like a vampire and in time, and when it no longer makes sense to deal with Intel, their bloodless husk will be cast off also.
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