First, its a touch screen so if you wanted to 'feel' your way around, you could not as the buttons would be being pressed as you 'feel'; albeit giving you feedback as you do it.
Second, why bother??? If you want tactile, buy one that has it, if you want the future, buy the iPhone. I love my iPhone and plan on upgrading to the new version quickly.
I do carry my iPhone and a Shuffle for music when driving. But if i want something particular that is on my iPhone, i switch at a red light. Which one should do rather than fiddle with their phone or iPod while driving.
the truth is future or not one should never deny a sense that is able to provide feedback.
Also discrimination acts mean that multiple sensory option will be required.
Is that an iPhone vibrating in your pants or are you haptic to see me?
Great line!
But seriously, I don't get the vibration feedback issue at all. As for the quote "A frequently-cited complaint regarding the iPhone is its lack of tactile feedback" is just that, a frequently cited quote. Just like "Macs cost more than PCs" or "Macs aren't compatible with PCs".
I had written apple back when the iphone was first announced about licensing the tactile feedback feature that Alpine used....I had not personally experienced it but thought it sounded cool....I am not even sure if it was a vibration technology but I guess it had to have been similar. Anyone have any experience with Alpine?
The one ting haptic is good for is instant confirmation that your phone is locked. The absence of any vibration confirms this instantly without looking at the screen. That would be helpful when playing music which I would imagine can get disengaged if its in your pocket with the phone unlocked.
Slider phones benefit from haptic very much because you can perform functions without the bottom extended provided it is unlocked (vibrating).
Could Apple be preparing for an iPhone Nano slider??
One thing I could imagine would be a simulation of the feeling you get when you lightly brush your fingers across your keyboard. Try it. Then, once you feel the button you want to hit, you can hit it harder. I am reminded by Human-Computer Interaction student Johnny Lee's Haptic Pen Demonstration.
It's a force feedback pen that when you push it down, simulates the sensation of pushing down the bottom of a retractable ball point pen. I don't fully understand how it works, but from what I understand, there is a pressure sensitive surface on the bottom of the pen and a solenoid attached to the top of the pen that registers different vibrations throughout the pen that are a function of pressure. The interesting thing is that the tip of the pen never actually retracts or moves. So it feels like your hand is going down and pushing the pen into the table. But it's only the vibrations that make it feel that way.
Again, I may have this all wrong, but I believe that some touchscreens have the ability to detect where and with what pressure you are touching the screen. I can picture a computer rendering a heat map as a function of where and how hard you touch the screen. It also appears as if the technology in AI's article lets the engineer register different vibrations in different parts of the screen.
Combine the two, and you have variable vibration in different parts of the screen in response to variable-force input. This means that the sensation you get from brushing over your phone's tactile keyboard and then registering a click by pushing harder isn't so far fetched. I can imagine the vibrations suggesting the reality of moving your finger over the edge of a button, which can really heighten the visceral experience.
The possibilities go far beyond the simple touch-a-button-and-the-screen-buzzes experience of current phones.
Could this actually work? I don't know. I haven't seen it all put together. But the idea of a fully haptic, but adapting and changeable (which is one of the iPhone's hallmarks) interface is exciting. If I would expect anyone to pull it off well, it would be Apple.
Bah. If it is haptics as implemented today like on the LG Voyager, it will be horrible. If it is a localized vibration on the screen on a per button basis, it may have a chance of being useful.
The meme about the iPhone lacking tactile feedback is kind of ridiculous. The iPhone keyboard has two or three forms of feedback: an audible click, a popup letter and the actual response of seeing the letter pressed come up in the text being written or the action that supposed to happen. Since all 3 are about as fast or is the fastest in response time to any other phone on the market, I don't think haptics will do anything for the iPhone. The sense of sight and sound is probably hundreds of times faster and more accurate than a sense of vibration. I can't see how it'll improve usability in any way unless there is the magic screen capable of inducing an illusion of touch on a per button basis on the specific point on the screen.
Bah. If it is haptics as implemented today like on the LG Voyager, it will be horrible. If it is a localized vibration on the screen on a per button basis, it may have a chance of being useful.
The meme about the iPhone lacking tactile feedback is kind of ridiculous. The iPhone keyboard has two or three forms of feedback: an audible click, a popup letter and the actual response of seeing the letter pressed come up in the text being written or the action that supposed to happen. Since all 3 are about as fast or is the fastest in response time to any other phone on the market, I don't think haptics will do anything for the iPhone. The sense of sight and sound is probably hundreds of times faster and more accurate than a sense of vibration. I can't see how it'll improve usability in any way unless there is the magic screen capable of inducing an illusion of touch on a per button basis on the specific point on the screen.
In a way, I agree. In some other ways, I don't think a virtual keyboard will have as good feedback as physical buttons. But it's about trade-offs, get a "real" keyboard and you're going to either need a smaller screen or a bulkier device. If you need a heavy-duty email device, there are other products better suited for that use. I really don't see Apple making a variant with a keyboard.
The way I imagine it working well in terms of input feel might be costly in terms of battery life.
I don't think so. It doesn't use much power to do this. It's not actually moving anything mechanical. Also, it's only in operation when a "key" is pressed. How much typing would you do during any given day? What would be the total key touch time? No more than a few minutes, at most.
I hope Apple works with these guys to create a typically superior implementation of this tech.
While I'm sure Apple will follow through on this I don't see Apple doing any better than anybody else as they can't milk a cow that is dried up. That is the whole concept is stupid.
Quote:
I'm not really that impressed with how it's been done so far-- seems more like a gimmick than a genuine UI improvement.
You hit the nail squarely on the head, this technology is nothing more than a useless gimmick. Haptic feed back tells yoou nothing about what you just did nor does it associate well with specific keys.
Quote:
Of course, even if Apple and Immersion come up with an eerily exact simulation of a physical button press, there will be plenty of people rolling their eyes and saying "big deal,
Or maybe be saying Apple why are you wasting my $$$$$ on technology that does nothing for me.
Quote:
my phone has had haptics for years, welcome to 2004 Apple, lol."
Like wise you can ask said people just what good does haptics do for them. I've yet to see a convincing argument nor a technology demo that favors haptics.
My biggest problem with Cell phones isn't getting physical feedback from the device it is being able to operate the damn thing while it is in my hands. Yeah my hands are on the big side but still most phones are just plain difficult to operate due to the tiny keys/switches. Many with physical keys do provide mechanical feedback but it is useless if you don't know which key actually got pressed. In the end I still have to do exactly what I do with a iPhone or Touch display, I have to watch what I type and make corrections.
For the iPhone a very real improvement can be had simply by making the phone a tiny bit wider. Or make sure that a horizontal keyboard is available in all modes. What makes a device useful isn't the type of keys but rather spacing and layout. The other alternative Apple has is to adopt a stylus that allows more precision.
Alpine and others have this feature on their car stereo/navigation touch screens. It's supposed to help the touch screen use. Having an electronic buzz under your fingertips does not improve accuracy. You'll end up "buzzing" on both correct and incorrect key press!
After a month I turned the feature off. I would expect others are doing the same.
I'd rather dock my IPHONE in my car... and simply say...
Play that new Leona Lewis song..
than any touch feeback censor
Certainly, you'd be happy to get something that's harder to achieve than what's being discussed here. Voice recognition like that isn't easy. It's hard enough for common words, names are even harder.
You hit the nail squarely on the head, this technology is nothing more than a useless gimmick. Haptic feed back tells yoou nothing about what you just did nor does it associate well with specific keys.
Dave
You obviously have never used it to make such comments:
1.) It's not a gimmick. For the iPhone as it currently looks - it's not necessary. But if Apple starts to make a smaller version that either slides or flips with a touch sensitive screen i.e., LG chocolate, Venus, or Voyager than it makes total sense. When the phone is closed and locked there is no vibration letting you know that you can not accidently engage any keys. With the phone unlocked and haptic - you can answer it without flipping it open or sliding the bottom panel down. This would also be very helpful to play music with the phone still closed.
2.) Of course haptic does not tell you what you just did- who says it does? Only Robby the Robot tells you that.
3.) It is good for for turning the speakerphone key on/off very fast.
Comments
First, its a touch screen so if you wanted to 'feel' your way around, you could not as the buttons would be being pressed as you 'feel'; albeit giving you feedback as you do it.
Second, why bother??? If you want tactile, buy one that has it, if you want the future, buy the iPhone. I love my iPhone and plan on upgrading to the new version quickly.
I do carry my iPhone and a Shuffle for music when driving. But if i want something particular that is on my iPhone, i switch at a red light. Which one should do rather than fiddle with their phone or iPod while driving.
the truth is future or not one should never deny a sense that is able to provide feedback.
Also discrimination acts mean that multiple sensory option will be required.
Is that an iPhone vibrating in your pants or are you haptic to see me?
Great line!
But seriously, I don't get the vibration feedback issue at all. As for the quote "A frequently-cited complaint regarding the iPhone is its lack of tactile feedback" is just that, a frequently cited quote. Just like "Macs cost more than PCs" or "Macs aren't compatible with PCs".
Slider phones benefit from haptic very much because you can perform functions without the bottom extended provided it is unlocked (vibrating).
Could Apple be preparing for an iPhone Nano slider??
It's a force feedback pen that when you push it down, simulates the sensation of pushing down the bottom of a retractable ball point pen. I don't fully understand how it works, but from what I understand, there is a pressure sensitive surface on the bottom of the pen and a solenoid attached to the top of the pen that registers different vibrations throughout the pen that are a function of pressure. The interesting thing is that the tip of the pen never actually retracts or moves. So it feels like your hand is going down and pushing the pen into the table. But it's only the vibrations that make it feel that way.
Again, I may have this all wrong, but I believe that some touchscreens have the ability to detect where and with what pressure you are touching the screen. I can picture a computer rendering a heat map as a function of where and how hard you touch the screen. It also appears as if the technology in AI's article lets the engineer register different vibrations in different parts of the screen.
Combine the two, and you have variable vibration in different parts of the screen in response to variable-force input. This means that the sensation you get from brushing over your phone's tactile keyboard and then registering a click by pushing harder isn't so far fetched. I can imagine the vibrations suggesting the reality of moving your finger over the edge of a button, which can really heighten the visceral experience.
The possibilities go far beyond the simple touch-a-button-and-the-screen-buzzes experience of current phones.
Could this actually work? I don't know. I haven't seen it all put together. But the idea of a fully haptic, but adapting and changeable (which is one of the iPhone's hallmarks) interface is exciting. If I would expect anyone to pull it off well, it would be Apple.
The meme about the iPhone lacking tactile feedback is kind of ridiculous. The iPhone keyboard has two or three forms of feedback: an audible click, a popup letter and the actual response of seeing the letter pressed come up in the text being written or the action that supposed to happen. Since all 3 are about as fast or is the fastest in response time to any other phone on the market, I don't think haptics will do anything for the iPhone. The sense of sight and sound is probably hundreds of times faster and more accurate than a sense of vibration. I can't see how it'll improve usability in any way unless there is the magic screen capable of inducing an illusion of touch on a per button basis on the specific point on the screen.
How about the consumer learn to type/spell. That oughta be a switch.
Me fail Norwegian? That's unpossible!
Bah. If it is haptics as implemented today like on the LG Voyager, it will be horrible. If it is a localized vibration on the screen on a per button basis, it may have a chance of being useful.
The meme about the iPhone lacking tactile feedback is kind of ridiculous. The iPhone keyboard has two or three forms of feedback: an audible click, a popup letter and the actual response of seeing the letter pressed come up in the text being written or the action that supposed to happen. Since all 3 are about as fast or is the fastest in response time to any other phone on the market, I don't think haptics will do anything for the iPhone. The sense of sight and sound is probably hundreds of times faster and more accurate than a sense of vibration. I can't see how it'll improve usability in any way unless there is the magic screen capable of inducing an illusion of touch on a per button basis on the specific point on the screen.
In a way, I agree. In some other ways, I don't think a virtual keyboard will have as good feedback as physical buttons. But it's about trade-offs, get a "real" keyboard and you're going to either need a smaller screen or a bulkier device. If you need a heavy-duty email device, there are other products better suited for that use. I really don't see Apple making a variant with a keyboard.
The way I imagine it working well in terms of input feel might be costly in terms of battery life.
I don't think so. It doesn't use much power to do this. It's not actually moving anything mechanical. Also, it's only in operation when a "key" is pressed. How much typing would you do during any given day? What would be the total key touch time? No more than a few minutes, at most.
Did anyone else notice this is AppleInsider's 4000th article? Pretty cool.
Screw that. I have more than three times as many posts!
Is that an iPhone vibrating in your pants or are you haptic to see me?
Cripes!
I hope Apple works with these guys to create a typically superior implementation of this tech.
While I'm sure Apple will follow through on this I don't see Apple doing any better than anybody else as they can't milk a cow that is dried up. That is the whole concept is stupid.
I'm not really that impressed with how it's been done so far-- seems more like a gimmick than a genuine UI improvement.
You hit the nail squarely on the head, this technology is nothing more than a useless gimmick. Haptic feed back tells yoou nothing about what you just did nor does it associate well with specific keys.
Of course, even if Apple and Immersion come up with an eerily exact simulation of a physical button press, there will be plenty of people rolling their eyes and saying "big deal,
Or maybe be saying Apple why are you wasting my $$$$$ on technology that does nothing for me.
my phone has had haptics for years, welcome to 2004 Apple, lol."
Like wise you can ask said people just what good does haptics do for them. I've yet to see a convincing argument nor a technology demo that favors haptics.
My biggest problem with Cell phones isn't getting physical feedback from the device it is being able to operate the damn thing while it is in my hands. Yeah my hands are on the big side but still most phones are just plain difficult to operate due to the tiny keys/switches. Many with physical keys do provide mechanical feedback but it is useless if you don't know which key actually got pressed. In the end I still have to do exactly what I do with a iPhone or Touch display, I have to watch what I type and make corrections.
For the iPhone a very real improvement can be had simply by making the phone a tiny bit wider. Or make sure that a horizontal keyboard is available in all modes. What makes a device useful isn't the type of keys but rather spacing and layout. The other alternative Apple has is to adopt a stylus that allows more precision.
Dave
After a month I turned the feature off. I would expect others are doing the same.
Play that new Leona Lewis song..
than any touch feeback censor
I'd rather dock my IPHONE in my car... and simply say...
Play that new Leona Lewis song..
than any touch feeback censor
Oh holy God I feel bad for the rest of your music collection.
I'd rather dock my IPHONE in my car... and simply say...
Play that new Leona Lewis song..
than any touch feeback censor
Certainly, you'd be happy to get something that's harder to achieve than what's being discussed here. Voice recognition like that isn't easy. It's hard enough for common words, names are even harder.
"I CERTAINLY WILL NOT! BZZT!"
"Play that new Leona Lewis song"
"I CERTAINLY WILL NOT! BZZT!"
That was funna!
You hit the nail squarely on the head, this technology is nothing more than a useless gimmick. Haptic feed back tells yoou nothing about what you just did nor does it associate well with specific keys.
Dave
You obviously have never used it to make such comments:
1.) It's not a gimmick. For the iPhone as it currently looks - it's not necessary. But if Apple starts to make a smaller version that either slides or flips with a touch sensitive screen i.e., LG chocolate, Venus, or Voyager than it makes total sense. When the phone is closed and locked there is no vibration letting you know that you can not accidently engage any keys. With the phone unlocked and haptic - you can answer it without flipping it open or sliding the bottom panel down. This would also be very helpful to play music with the phone still closed.
2.) Of course haptic does not tell you what you just did- who says it does? Only Robby the Robot tells you that.
3.) It is good for for turning the speakerphone key on/off very fast.