I Googled the phrase "As part of a newly-created team, you’ll influence the development and design of BlackBerry software" and came up with the following job listing that seems to match the one being refered to.
It has alot more requirements to the job though that may point away from a purely Mac-focused position, e.e., Windows, C or C++ experience, Visual Studio etc etc ... except for what the blogger on that site seems to mention in her comments re: "If you’re a pro at developing software for MAC’s then this it the position for you. It’s a new development team at RIM, so you’re getting in a the very early stages when joining this team." (emphasis mine).
This phrase "This is a very confidential brand new team and a senior position within RIM so I can't provide too many details. I guess you can figure out what it might be about though." isn't in the posting but maybe thats a separate communication within RIM?
Now that the iPhone is coming to Canada seems likely that they might consider making software for it. It'd be like MS in a way ... their software on whatever hardware. They'll make $ without having to do the hardware part, as one previous poster said.
Bingo. This is the most logical explanation. They need to learn from the iPhone in order to compete with it.
Have you used the blackberry sdk? It would be like a go cart manufacturer, trying to learn from Porsche.
That's probably being a bit too hard on RIM, but honestly I don't think they can compete with Apple. Getting BES up and running on the iPhone makes far more sense than trying to come up with the iPhone killer. They'd just be throwing money away. I have an 8830, and as a phone/email gadget it's perfect, as a media player it's a joke. I think RIM would be smart to move away from the consumer/multimedia phones and just stick with what they're good at, rock solid enterprise class phone/email. I think partnering with apple for the consumer/media phone market makes a lot of sense.
iPhone + BES =
RIM vs iPhone =
If i could get a 3G iPhone with BES on Sprint, I'd get it today. (Stupid corporate account.)
Sounds like the conumdrum that Apple went through a couple of years ago. Are they a hardware company, or are they a software company? ...
Is RIM a hardware company or a services provider?
Agreed that RIM needs to become clear about this, especially if the iPhone starts to eat into BB handest sales. It's obvious that one of RIM's crown jewels is its email service, driving BES sales, monthly service fees, and even handset sales. But it's not so obvious that the BB handsets are also part of their crown jewels. Two immediate questions I ask in determining "crown jewels" (there's probably many more questions one could ask):
1. How much profit does RIM make from handset sales? (I don't know the answer to this one at all; anyone know?)
2. How much innovation does RIM bring to handsets? RIM did innovate with the keyboard and wheel, but I haven't really seen anything new on its handsets in a long time. Getting the handset smaller is good, but doesn't really strike me as major innovation.
A lot of conspiracy theories and only a few people hitting the target IMHO.
RIM ship Blackberry Connect client software for most platforms including Symbian, Windows and even Palm. Up springs a new platform - Apple iPhone - that does moderately well at least in the USA where RIM is also more popular than other locales. That alone would make enough sense to port their app but then Apple ties up with Microsoft and their Exchange solution.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realise porting Blackberry Connect to the iPhone, like they've done with other platforms already, is important to keeping their foot in the door in the enterprise.
So, we'll have a choice of two proprietary, non-standard 'enterprise' solutions soon on the iPhone and still Apple does almost nothing to create a standards based alternative. They've most of the pieces already but don't seem to have the urge to push them together into a cohesive service offering.
A lot of conspiracy theories and only a few people hitting the target IMHO.
RIM ship Blackberry Connect client software for most platforms including Symbian, Windows and even Palm. Up springs a new platform - Apple iPhone - that does moderately well at least in the USA where RIM is also more popular than other locales. That alone would make enough sense to port their app but then Apple ties up with Microsoft and their Exchange solution.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realise porting Blackberry Connect to the iPhone, like they've done with other platforms already, is important to keeping their foot in the door in the enterprise.
So, we'll have a choice of two proprietary, non-standard 'enterprise' solutions soon on the iPhone and still Apple does almost nothing to create a standards based alternative. They've most of the pieces already but don't seem to have the urge to push them together into a cohesive service offering.
I have to agree. I assumess Blackberry Connect is part of RIM's core business. It makes the most sense, and is a pretty logical compettive response to Apple licensing ActiveSync. RIM already has BB Connect running on a few other platforms that (apparently) have peanuts for market share compared to the iPhone. Now, I'd love to see this happen -- I like my BIS service on my chunky BB 8700c -- though I use my iPhone for everything else - including my voice plan.
Also, if I remember correctly, just running ActiveSync on your mobile device (like an iPhone) doesn't necessarily mean you automatically have access to your corporate email. Corporate IT would presumably still have to turn on the appropriate service on Exchange Server, and then make the appropriate exclusions in the firewall to let iPhone users through? But, I'm just guessing and not that knowledgable on ActiveSync... With Blackberry Connect and BIS, all I need is for the Exchange admins to have enabled Outlook webmail, which it nearly always is.
I know some will say "...just ask IT to turn it on..." Well, to that I say nothing in Enterprise IT is ever that easy -- esp. for us lowly peons! :-)
I would gladly pay (or more correctly expense) the $30-50 monthly charge for Blackberry Connect on the iPhone if it meant I could just carry my iPhone -- and leave the BB at home. I'd like to be able to sync calendars as well, but I can live with just email.
Now, I have to take all this with a grain of salt... Back when I was a Treo 600 user, I remember the announcements that Blackberry Connect for Treo was completed, and being tested by T-Mobile in Germany. And then, nothing for TWO YEARS....! By that time, I'd given up on the platform, and was a BB user. When BB Connect for Treo for was announced, it was only for the Treo 650. By that time, I (and many people) had given up on the Treo.
I would suspect it's a port of the BlackBerry Application suite that RIM has been promising for WinMo 6.1. A self contained set of BlackBery Apps that are controlable from the BES. Or it could be full blown integration with the iPhone OS. Not having used the iPhone SDK, I'm not sure to what level Apple allows the developer to. If you were allowed to program at the transport level and manipulate the mail/calendar/address book apps then it's not far fetched to load a fully integrated BES/BIS enabled client on the iPhone. From a 10000 foot perspective it's fairly easy to establish the link to the iPhone from the BES/BIS. RIM did this with the BlackBerry Connect program.
I wouldn't think of this as a sign of defeat, more of a sign of looking for more revenue from a third party device. They weren't against it before with BlackBerry Connect and the mysterious BlackBerry Application suite (may be vaporware, but then again WinMo 6.1 is still slowly coming). Will it hurt their hardware business? Maybe from the consumer side, but there are still a bunch of dedicated security conscious Blackberry users that have no use for cameras and DMP capabilities.
What a load of rubbish gets talked on this forum! Some of you guys are on drugs, thank god that a couple of sensible posters joined in the conversation at the end.
Blackberry is a genius device/service and anyone who doubts that does not have a clue what they are talking about. There is no argument to be had here, the sales figures from corporate customers show this to be the case. All this rubbish about Blackberry doing this so they can learn from iPhone is absurd, I am sure the opposite is more true, Apple still have an awful lot to learn about this business and if they want to stat targeting the corporate market then Blackberry can certainly teach them a thing or two.
By putting the Blackberry Enterprise Server integration onto the iPhone Blackberry will indeed help drive new sales of iPhones, this would be something that could start to see the beginnings of the iPhone as a business class device. But RIM are not stupid, they are not in danger of losing their market share to iPhone really, not just yet anyway.
And before anyone points to stats showing iphone taking market share from RIM, they are flawed stats. They show the total smartphone market the biggest growth of which is consumer smartphones, the iphone to be exact. This is still not a market RIM plays in or really seems to want to play in, their market is the enterprise market and in that the iPhone is not even making a dent in RIM's market share. The pearl was not really an attempt at the consumer market but more at a fully featured Blackberry that us corporate users could still shove in our pockets and use as our regular phone too. It does have a great media player and a camera etc.. but it still cannot be classed as a consumer device but a device for business workers who like to have a small phone.
The best way for the iPhone to enter the corporate market is for the likes of Blackberry to write their email app for the iPhone, along with other business apps I could mention, one of which my company happens to develop, although while supporting both Win and BB we have no plans to develop for the iPhone as it is just not seen as a business class device, moves like this however may start to change that. Blackberry can see a way to generate new revenue from the iPhone as well as keeping market share once the iPhone starts to be taken seriously enough.
RIM already has BB Connect running on a few other platforms that (apparently) have peanuts for market share compared to the iPhone.
You have that quite wrong. The worldwide smartphone market splits like this according to Canalys...
"In Q4 2007, Canalys estimates that Symbian had a 65% share of worldwide converged device shipments, ahead of Microsoft on 12% and RIM on 11%. By region, Symbian led in APAC and EMEA with 85% and 80% shares respectively, while in North America RIM was the clear leader on 42%, ahead of Apple on 27% and Microsoft at 21%."
Nokia and Sony Ericsson usually ship both ActiveSync (MS Exchange compatible) AND Blackberry Connect software with their Symbian based phones. Their share is far from being peanuts.
North America is a very unusual market and looks nothing like the rest of the world where Symbian dominates. Over half of all smartphone shipments worldwide are Nokias yet they barely register in the USA. The USA's smartphone market was half the size of Europe or Asia in 2007. In 2006 it was a quarter of the size. Traditionally the USA just hasn't picked up European phones, instead preferring Palm, Blackberry, Windows or now the iPhone - none of which we really bother with in Europe.
Sounds to me like they're staffing for Mac development (probably sync and dev tools) more tha iPhone apps.
"Among the requirements are a very strong emphasis on existing experience with Mac development, including programming in both Cocoa and Objective C as well as user interface design."
Where do you think they will find Objective-C Programmers familiar with Cocoa? From the existing Mac platform.
They aren't saying, "We're looking for newbie Objective-C/Cocoa iPhone Platform SDK devs enthusiastic to learn the platforma nd write programs for us."
They won't touch anyone with less than 5 years of Cocoa and I guarantee you they want all the Enterprise ex-Openstep developers they can get their hands on.
[QUOTE=aegisdesign;1245956]You have that quite wrong. The worldwide smartphone market splits like this according to Canalys... QUOTE]
I stand corrected - you're quite right - worldwide vs US market share are entirely different things.
However, if I'm RIM/whoever, I would still have to do some work on the Canalys numbers to figure out what kind of market I might have if I'm developing a software application -- since each manufacturer doesn't just have one single platform. For example, I noticed -- when I was shopping for phones (on the then-Cingular network) -- that the BB Connect software was available on something like a Nokia E-series phones and not on their N95, N80. Unclear to me whether that's a RIM, Nokia, or carrier decision. That may just be a peculiarity of the US market.
Either way, if it turns out RIM is developing a Blackberry Connect product for the iPhone, I'd be pretty happy -- though I type a _hell_ of a lot faster on a BB keyboard and with fewer mistakes than on my iPhone!
I'm just getting tired of carrying two phones around with me, though when forced with a choice, the BB stays in my car or hotel room. For better or worse, I'm quite invested in iPhone/iTunes.
However, if I'm RIM/whoever, I would still have to do some work on the Canalys numbers to figure out what kind of market I might have if I'm developing a software application -- since each manufacturer doesn't just have one single platform. For example, I noticed -- when I was shopping for phones (on the then-Cingular network) -- that the BB Connect software was available on something like a Nokia E-series phones and not on their N95, N80. Unclear to me whether that's a RIM, Nokia, or carrier decision. That may just be a peculiarity of the US market.
It's an odd one but BBConnect on the Nokia phones seem to be limited to just the E series business phones. I don't see why technically it shouldn't be available on the N Series too.
Sony Ericsson shipped it on the P910 and later P series and the M600 and later M series touchscreen and keypad style phones. You also get ActiveSync support too. So, I can't see why if RIM can do it on different Symbian UIQ form factors, they can't also do it with Symbian S60 on Nokia's 'multimedia computers'.
Scroll down to the part where the job requirements mention 'syncing' and 'device communication protocols' and tell me you still think this has anything to do with the iPhone.
Scroll down to the part where the job requirements mention 'syncing' and 'device communication protocols' and tell me you still think this has anything to do with the iPhone.
Trevor Stafford
Editor
Red Canary
The straightforward interpretation sounds like 'gotta understand how to code on a Mac'. :-)
Comments
http://www.redcanary.ca/view/software-developer72
It has alot more requirements to the job though that may point away from a purely Mac-focused position, e.e., Windows, C or C++ experience, Visual Studio etc etc ... except for what the blogger on that site seems to mention in her comments re: "If you’re a pro at developing software for MAC’s then this it the position for you. It’s a new development team at RIM, so you’re getting in a the very early stages when joining this team." (emphasis mine).
This phrase "This is a very confidential brand new team and a senior position within RIM so I can't provide too many details. I guess you can figure out what it might be about though." isn't in the posting but maybe thats a separate communication within RIM?
Now that the iPhone is coming to Canada seems likely that they might consider making software for it. It'd be like MS in a way ... their software on whatever hardware. They'll make $ without having to do the hardware part, as one previous poster said.
I'd say real.
Bingo. This is the most logical explanation. They need to learn from the iPhone in order to compete with it.
Have you used the blackberry sdk? It would be like a go cart manufacturer, trying to learn from Porsche.
That's probably being a bit too hard on RIM, but honestly I don't think they can compete with Apple. Getting BES up and running on the iPhone makes far more sense than trying to come up with the iPhone killer. They'd just be throwing money away. I have an 8830, and as a phone/email gadget it's perfect, as a media player it's a joke. I think RIM would be smart to move away from the consumer/multimedia phones and just stick with what they're good at, rock solid enterprise class phone/email. I think partnering with apple for the consumer/media phone market makes a lot of sense.
iPhone + BES =
RIM vs iPhone =
If i could get a 3G iPhone with BES on Sprint, I'd get it today. (Stupid corporate account.)
Sounds like the conumdrum that Apple went through a couple of years ago. Are they a hardware company, or are they a software company? ...
Is RIM a hardware company or a services provider?
Agreed that RIM needs to become clear about this, especially if the iPhone starts to eat into BB handest sales. It's obvious that one of RIM's crown jewels is its email service, driving BES sales, monthly service fees, and even handset sales. But it's not so obvious that the BB handsets are also part of their crown jewels. Two immediate questions I ask in determining "crown jewels" (there's probably many more questions one could ask):
1. How much profit does RIM make from handset sales? (I don't know the answer to this one at all; anyone know?)
2. How much innovation does RIM bring to handsets? RIM did innovate with the keyboard and wheel, but I haven't really seen anything new on its handsets in a long time. Getting the handset smaller is good, but doesn't really strike me as major innovation.
RIM ship Blackberry Connect client software for most platforms including Symbian, Windows and even Palm. Up springs a new platform - Apple iPhone - that does moderately well at least in the USA where RIM is also more popular than other locales. That alone would make enough sense to port their app but then Apple ties up with Microsoft and their Exchange solution.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realise porting Blackberry Connect to the iPhone, like they've done with other platforms already, is important to keeping their foot in the door in the enterprise.
So, we'll have a choice of two proprietary, non-standard 'enterprise' solutions soon on the iPhone and still Apple does almost nothing to create a standards based alternative. They've most of the pieces already but don't seem to have the urge to push them together into a cohesive service offering.
A lot of conspiracy theories and only a few people hitting the target IMHO.
RIM ship Blackberry Connect client software for most platforms including Symbian, Windows and even Palm. Up springs a new platform - Apple iPhone - that does moderately well at least in the USA where RIM is also more popular than other locales. That alone would make enough sense to port their app but then Apple ties up with Microsoft and their Exchange solution.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realise porting Blackberry Connect to the iPhone, like they've done with other platforms already, is important to keeping their foot in the door in the enterprise.
So, we'll have a choice of two proprietary, non-standard 'enterprise' solutions soon on the iPhone and still Apple does almost nothing to create a standards based alternative. They've most of the pieces already but don't seem to have the urge to push them together into a cohesive service offering.
That's about it.
@melgross
I have to agree. I assumess Blackberry Connect is part of RIM's core business. It makes the most sense, and is a pretty logical compettive response to Apple licensing ActiveSync. RIM already has BB Connect running on a few other platforms that (apparently) have peanuts for market share compared to the iPhone. Now, I'd love to see this happen -- I like my BIS service on my chunky BB 8700c -- though I use my iPhone for everything else - including my voice plan.
Also, if I remember correctly, just running ActiveSync on your mobile device (like an iPhone) doesn't necessarily mean you automatically have access to your corporate email. Corporate IT would presumably still have to turn on the appropriate service on Exchange Server, and then make the appropriate exclusions in the firewall to let iPhone users through? But, I'm just guessing and not that knowledgable on ActiveSync... With Blackberry Connect and BIS, all I need is for the Exchange admins to have enabled Outlook webmail, which it nearly always is.
I know some will say "...just ask IT to turn it on..." Well, to that I say nothing in Enterprise IT is ever that easy -- esp. for us lowly peons! :-)
I would gladly pay (or more correctly expense) the $30-50 monthly charge for Blackberry Connect on the iPhone if it meant I could just carry my iPhone -- and leave the BB at home. I'd like to be able to sync calendars as well, but I can live with just email.
Now, I have to take all this with a grain of salt... Back when I was a Treo 600 user, I remember the announcements that Blackberry Connect for Treo was completed, and being tested by T-Mobile in Germany. And then, nothing for TWO YEARS....! By that time, I'd given up on the platform, and was a BB user. When BB Connect for Treo for was announced, it was only for the Treo 650. By that time, I (and many people) had given up on the Treo.
I wouldn't think of this as a sign of defeat, more of a sign of looking for more revenue from a third party device. They weren't against it before with BlackBerry Connect and the mysterious BlackBerry Application suite (may be vaporware, but then again WinMo 6.1 is still slowly coming). Will it hurt their hardware business? Maybe from the consumer side, but there are still a bunch of dedicated security conscious Blackberry users that have no use for cameras and DMP capabilities.
just a guess.
Blackberry is a genius device/service and anyone who doubts that does not have a clue what they are talking about. There is no argument to be had here, the sales figures from corporate customers show this to be the case. All this rubbish about Blackberry doing this so they can learn from iPhone is absurd, I am sure the opposite is more true, Apple still have an awful lot to learn about this business and if they want to stat targeting the corporate market then Blackberry can certainly teach them a thing or two.
By putting the Blackberry Enterprise Server integration onto the iPhone Blackberry will indeed help drive new sales of iPhones, this would be something that could start to see the beginnings of the iPhone as a business class device. But RIM are not stupid, they are not in danger of losing their market share to iPhone really, not just yet anyway.
And before anyone points to stats showing iphone taking market share from RIM, they are flawed stats. They show the total smartphone market the biggest growth of which is consumer smartphones, the iphone to be exact. This is still not a market RIM plays in or really seems to want to play in, their market is the enterprise market and in that the iPhone is not even making a dent in RIM's market share. The pearl was not really an attempt at the consumer market but more at a fully featured Blackberry that us corporate users could still shove in our pockets and use as our regular phone too. It does have a great media player and a camera etc.. but it still cannot be classed as a consumer device but a device for business workers who like to have a small phone.
The best way for the iPhone to enter the corporate market is for the likes of Blackberry to write their email app for the iPhone, along with other business apps I could mention, one of which my company happens to develop, although while supporting both Win and BB we have no plans to develop for the iPhone as it is just not seen as a business class device, moves like this however may start to change that. Blackberry can see a way to generate new revenue from the iPhone as well as keeping market share once the iPhone starts to be taken seriously enough.
In the end everybody wins.
RIM already has BB Connect running on a few other platforms that (apparently) have peanuts for market share compared to the iPhone.
You have that quite wrong. The worldwide smartphone market splits like this according to Canalys...
"In Q4 2007, Canalys estimates that Symbian had a 65% share of worldwide converged device shipments, ahead of Microsoft on 12% and RIM on 11%. By region, Symbian led in APAC and EMEA with 85% and 80% shares respectively, while in North America RIM was the clear leader on 42%, ahead of Apple on 27% and Microsoft at 21%."
http://www.canalys.com/pr/2008/r2008021.htm
Nokia and Sony Ericsson usually ship both ActiveSync (MS Exchange compatible) AND Blackberry Connect software with their Symbian based phones. Their share is far from being peanuts.
North America is a very unusual market and looks nothing like the rest of the world where Symbian dominates. Over half of all smartphone shipments worldwide are Nokias yet they barely register in the USA. The USA's smartphone market was half the size of Europe or Asia in 2007. In 2006 it was a quarter of the size. Traditionally the USA just hasn't picked up European phones, instead preferring Palm, Blackberry, Windows or now the iPhone - none of which we really bother with in Europe.
Sounds to me like they're staffing for Mac development (probably sync and dev tools) more tha iPhone apps.
"Among the requirements are a very strong emphasis on existing experience with Mac development, including programming in both Cocoa and Objective C as well as user interface design."
Where do you think they will find Objective-C Programmers familiar with Cocoa? From the existing Mac platform.
They aren't saying, "We're looking for newbie Objective-C/Cocoa iPhone Platform SDK devs enthusiastic to learn the platforma nd write programs for us."
They won't touch anyone with less than 5 years of Cocoa and I guarantee you they want all the Enterprise ex-Openstep developers they can get their hands on.
I stand corrected - you're quite right - worldwide vs US market share are entirely different things.
However, if I'm RIM/whoever, I would still have to do some work on the Canalys numbers to figure out what kind of market I might have if I'm developing a software application -- since each manufacturer doesn't just have one single platform. For example, I noticed -- when I was shopping for phones (on the then-Cingular network) -- that the BB Connect software was available on something like a Nokia E-series phones and not on their N95, N80. Unclear to me whether that's a RIM, Nokia, or carrier decision. That may just be a peculiarity of the US market.
Either way, if it turns out RIM is developing a Blackberry Connect product for the iPhone, I'd be pretty happy -- though I type a _hell_ of a lot faster on a BB keyboard and with fewer mistakes than on my iPhone!
I'm just getting tired of carrying two phones around with me, though when forced with a choice, the BB stays in my car or hotel room. For better or worse, I'm quite invested in iPhone/iTunes.
However, if I'm RIM/whoever, I would still have to do some work on the Canalys numbers to figure out what kind of market I might have if I'm developing a software application -- since each manufacturer doesn't just have one single platform. For example, I noticed -- when I was shopping for phones (on the then-Cingular network) -- that the BB Connect software was available on something like a Nokia E-series phones and not on their N95, N80. Unclear to me whether that's a RIM, Nokia, or carrier decision. That may just be a peculiarity of the US market.
It's an odd one but BBConnect on the Nokia phones seem to be limited to just the E series business phones. I don't see why technically it shouldn't be available on the N Series too.
Sony Ericsson shipped it on the P910 and later P series and the M600 and later M series touchscreen and keypad style phones. You also get ActiveSync support too. So, I can't see why if RIM can do it on different Symbian UIQ form factors, they can't also do it with Symbian S60 on Nokia's 'multimedia computers'.
Scroll down to the part where the job requirements mention 'syncing' and 'device communication protocols' and tell me you still think this has anything to do with the iPhone.
Trevor Stafford
Editor
Red Canary
I wrote the job description that this is referring to. Here it is http://www.redcanary.ca/view/software-developer72.
Scroll down to the part where the job requirements mention 'syncing' and 'device communication protocols' and tell me you still think this has anything to do with the iPhone.
Trevor Stafford
Editor
Red Canary
The straightforward interpretation sounds like 'gotta understand how to code on a Mac'. :-)
The straightforward interpretation sounds like 'gotta understand how to code on a Mac'. :-)
No, it doesn't. It looks like RIM wants someone to do syncing software for the iPhone. That's all.