I've decided not to make any huge purchases for a couple of years.
Gonna keep driving the Civic. My twin bro (yes, there are two of us!) has a 2008 Z4 (he was lucky enough to be one of only two new hires a major American company took on in the last two years in its industrial design operations). I have a lot more debt though so it's not wise for me to get a new car. I'm also getting a roommate in a cheap apartment, no expensive furniture or electronics purchases (besides a new MBP when the time comes), no extravagant vacations, I'll brew my own starbucks iced coffee (this seriously is a huge savings right here), and so on. So the goal, obviously, is to pay that off as quickly as possible.
I'm putting 100% of what i'm allowed to contribute into retirement. But other than frugal living for a few years and retirement contributions, I'm not sure what exactly I should be paying off and whether I should also look into investing, etc. Pay off high interest loans first? Consolidate? Start investing on the side? Gah.
you might want to think about investing in some farm land with deep wells, solar panels/batteries, seed stock & some books on organic farming & agriculture in addition to field medicine...learning what diseased meat looks like (just 'cuz you shoot it while it's running away from you doesn't mean it's safe)...oh yeah, some heavy weapons to protect it all from the masses who seemingly have no idea about the veritable shite which is hitting the veritable fan as we all click away at our keyboards.
edit: right-click on "edit post" and "open link in new tab" will allow you to edit your post.
edit edit: Thanks for the advice Mr. Heinlein. You saw this all coming, didn't you?
... Society has seemingly adapted to a place where the individual can do as they please. It is FREEDOM BABY!!... Walk through a local shopping mall and the youth wear their shorts down 6 inches or so from where the waist is and 2 sizes too large so things have to be held up with one hand as they stroll. FREEDOM BABY. FREEDOM at any price has cost us dearly. Gone are the "old timer" tried and true notions of minimum standards and discipline....
[/take out of context]
Freedom is what made America great! Anything else and you're a commie symp!
Oh, wait, the seventies are over... you're a terrorist!
Come on these problems aren't just created by lazy parents or teachers.
The US is/has become beholden to commerce not from a manufacturing stronghold but more from a marketing stronghold.
People are in debt because the lure is advertising and media that honestly are quite effective in pushing the message that you should have the right clothes and the right car and live in the right neighborhood.
Parents in many ways have failed their children. Many say "I don't want my child to go through what I did" well that's great if you were abused or molested as a child but if all your ass got was a bit of discipline then you're probably going to raise a problem child.
I remember thinking how I was going to hit the world @ 20 and have all the things I dreamt about. Never mind that I had no experience or inkling what it takes to have success in the real world.
Low pay+ bad habits+ no training = financial mess.
The only way to reverse this trend is for parents to start proactively teaching their kids about money. Everyone has a personal relationship with money. It dictates how they manage and view money. Getting your child ready for the responsiblity of managing money and developing that relationship early is key to averting financial ruin when they can least afford it.
Come on these problems aren't just created by lazy parents or teachers.
The US is/has become beholden to commerce not from a manufacturing stronghold but more from a marketing stronghold.
People are in debt because the lure is advertising and media that honestly are quite effective in pushing the message that you should have the right clothes and the right car and live in the right neighborhood.
Parents in many ways have failed their children. Many say "I don't want my child to go through what I did" well that's great if you were abused or molested as a child but if all your ass got was a bit of discipline then you're probably going to raise a problem child.
I remember thinking how I was going to hit the world @ 20 and have all the things I dreamt about. Never mind that I had no experience or inkling what it takes to have success in the real world.
Low pay+ bad habits+ no training = financial mess.
The only way to reverse this trend is for parents to start proactively teaching their kids about money. Everyone has a personal relationship with money. It dictates how they manage and view money. Getting your child ready for the responsiblity of managing money and developing that relationship early is key to averting financial ruin when they can least afford it.
Surely if advertising was that powerful, it would have been used in all other countries to similar effect. Ergo, it isn't that powerful.
Parents also aren't *that* big part of the equation. I recall research shows that basic, genetic instincts drive kids to primarily pick up their manners and attitudes from peers and equals, not parents. So while parents can and should teach the kids how money *works*, the friends and culture that surrounds them will have a lot of say in whether the kid ends up preferring e.g. self-sufficiency over appearance of wealth accompanied by debt.
Then why did these people go into teaching?... They KNEW before they ever got into that profession what the pay was, what the hours were, what the benefits were. Did they think things would get better AFTER they took the job?
If people wouldn't accept the crappy teaching jobs, the schools would have to raise pay/benefits to attract the teachers they need. No, really. If the teachers had the intestinal fortitude to actually do something instead f complain all day, then things WOULD change.
There are plenty of other jobs they could be doing.
Wow.
First, they went into teaching because it's a calling for most people. One is either a teacher or he isn't.
Secondly, you're right...there ARE other jobs. That's why some teachers judge that they'd do better in another job. Can you blame them?
Third, many areas of the country cannot get and keep quality applicants because of both working conditions and salary. Some county systems hire 800 new teachers a year. And they can't just raise pay many times...unless you think money grows on trees.
I've decided not to make any huge purchases for a couple of years.
That would be wise considering you will have just finished law school.
Quote:
Gonna keep driving the Civic. My twin bro (yes, there are two of us!) has a 2008 Z4 (he was lucky enough to be one of only two new hires a major American company took on in the last two years in its industrial design operations). I have a lot more debt though so it's not wise for me to get a new car. I'm also getting a roommate in a cheap apartment, no expensive furniture or electronics purchases (besides a new MBP when the time comes), no extravagant vacations, I'll brew my own starbucks iced coffee (this seriously is a huge savings right here), and so on. So the goal, obviously, is to pay that off as quickly as possible.
Your family seems very big on cars. I know you've added quite a lot to the various car threads in here over the years, so it must be quite the sacrifice. Too bad your brother doesn't live in the same town so you two could be roommates. I'm sure that would be quite fun. Is he fraternal or identical?
Finally... brewing your own coffee?!?! That is quite the austerity program you've got going on there Shawn. I know it is from your own perspective though so congrats on the reduced spending. The terrorists are winning because you brew your own coffee now!
Quote:
I'm putting 100% of what i'm allowed to contribute into retirement. But other than frugal living for a few years and retirement contributions, I'm not sure what exactly I should be paying off and whether I should also look into investing, etc. Pay off high interest loans first? Consolidate? Start investing on the side? Gah.
Well I could give you investment advice but it would all be related to lowering taxes which we know you would never want to do to yourself. I would look into this very soon after you start working though because as a single young man with no mortgage, the government will pretty much put the screws to you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfSomewhereHot
Then why did these people go into teaching?... They KNEW before they ever got into that profession what the pay was, what the hours were, what the benefits were. Did they think things would get better AFTER they took the job?
If people wouldn't accept the crappy teaching jobs, the schools would have to raise pay/benefits to attract the teachers they need. No, really. If the teachers had the intestinal fortitude to actually do something instead f complain all day, then things WOULD change.
There are plenty of other jobs they could be doing.
I think you have just explained why the attrition rate is at 50% for the five year mark.
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazychester
Be afraid, trumpty. Be very, very afraid. As for your comment to little Shawny, you really can be quite horrid at times, trumpty.
Double the pleasure, double the fun.
Quote:
Come on these problems aren't just created by lazy parents or teachers.
The US is/has become beholden to commerce not from a manufacturing stronghold but more from a marketing stronghold.
People are in debt because the lure is advertising and media that honestly are quite effective in pushing the message that you should have the right clothes and the right car and live in the right neighborhood.
Parents in many ways have failed their children. Many say "I don't want my child to go through what I did" well that's great if you were abused or molested as a child but if all your ass got was a bit of discipline then you're probably going to raise a problem child.
I remember thinking how I was going to hit the world @ 20 and have all the things I dreamt about. Never mind that I had no experience or inkling what it takes to have success in the real world.
Low pay+ bad habits+ no training = financial mess.
The only way to reverse this trend is for parents to start proactively teaching their kids about money. Everyone has a personal relationship with money. It dictates how they manage and view money. Getting your child ready for the responsiblity of managing money and developing that relationship early is key to averting financial ruin when they can least afford it.
While I would say that there is truth to what you say, I would say it goes much deeper than that. One of the principle problems is that many people think of "rich" as having certain brands or a certain size house. The entire middle and lower classes are guilty of this and most parents are simply passing on their financial habits instead of thinking about and modifying them. An asset is something that puts money in your pocket. Most people think of their own home as an asset, but it is just housing and purchasing it just means they have a nice inflation hedge. Let them lose their job, be injured for a bit or even have a life event like a divorce or child occur and suddenly their "asset" is eating them alive.
Poor Shawn probably feels like he has been teased a bit in this thread, but the reality is he will have an asset (hopefully) that will put money in his pocket for his entire life. He may still drive a Civic but on paper he will be worth a lot more than most folks just due to his education.
BTW Shawn, my cousin still drives a Civic even though he has made partner, has a very nice house and also funds his own drag racing team with his two sons.
People get fooled into thinking things are assets when they aren't. They also keep trying to increase their income when it is the most highly taxed financial source out there. Instead they should be thinking about passive income from assets. Timeshares aren't assets. A home is not an asset. Granite countertops are not assets and thinking that because you own these things your financial house is in order isn't the fault of just the marketing folks.
Finally... brewing your own coffee?!?! That is quite the austerity program you've got going on there Shawn. I know it is from your own perspective though so congrats on the reduced spending. The terrorists are winning because you brew your own coffee now!
Heh. Yeah, everyone comes to class with $4 Starbucks.
A couple of times I showed them up with Starbucks *and* Perrier. Beverage label-whoring at its finest right there.
But actually yeah it's easier for me to just go to Dunkin Donuts and get my $3 large iced coffee (black please). The financial aid people told us how buying coffee 5 times a week, 30 weeks a year, times 3 years can be anywhere from $1350 to $2000, which is more because we're all mostly living off loans and would have to pay back more on that. They said instead of buying that coffee out everyday for just those three years, if you invested the savings from that, over 30 years that little sacrifice is something like tens of thousands of dollars (I believe they said up to $50k, just from coffee!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman
Well I could give you investment advice but it would all be related to lowering taxes which we know you would never want to do to yourself. I would look into this very soon after you start working though because as a single young man with no mortgage, the government will pretty much put the screws to you.
Oh, don't worry. I'm definitely not about paying any more taxes than what the law requires of me. That said, I have a brutal tax final to study for. Yikes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman
BTW Shawn, my cousin still drives a Civic even though he has made partner, has a very nice house and also funds his own drag racing team with his two sons.
I actually think it's more than that. My theory is that 50 years ago, a certain percentage of people that were "college material" went to college.
..
50 years ago it was fine to learn a trade or work your way up in retail or go into sales. College is the new high school, and I'm not sure that's a good thing.
Blame the GI bill. All those returning WW2 vets went to college, and in America, your kids are supposed to be better off than you, so their kids went to college and then got advanced degrees. And then their kids went and got PhDs.
Of course, the secondary schools aren't blameless in all of this, but y'all know more about that than anyone here, I'd wager.
Blame the GI bill. All those returning WW2 vets went to college, and in America, your kids are supposed to be better off than you, so their kids went to college and then got advanced degrees. And then their kids went and got PhDs.
Of course, the secondary schools aren't blameless in all of this, but y'all know more about that than anyone here, I'd wager.
I think the secondary schools are slaves to public opinion. As the public demands more children go to college, so do the schools. Of course, there are vo-tech programs and what not...but I think they are looked down upon in affluent communities.
I think the secondary schools are slaves to public opinion. As the public demands more children go to college, so do the schools. Of course, there are vo-tech programs and what not...but I think they are looked down upon in affluent communities.
I think it's actually worse than that. I think the vo-tech schools are just generally regarded as illegitimate. For the last 50 years, we've been sending kids to college get a "legitimate" liberal arts education?whether they want it or not. Back when I taught at a big R1 state school, I was always, always deeply saddened by kids who hated every class they took and hated the simple fact that they were wasting their money on an education they neither wanted nor needed. I have never understood why they didn't just go to the local vo tech, learn a trade, and walk into an apprenticeship/assistant deal making more money than they ever would with a degree in "business."
Third, many areas of the country cannot get and keep quality applicants because of both working conditions and salary. Some county systems hire 800 new teachers a year. And they can't just raise pay many times...unless you think money grows on trees.
hmmm.... the school district I live in and pay taxes to wants to raise a bond so that they can (among other things) make a 7 MILLION dollar renovation to the high school football stadium. They already won't buy enough textbooks for each student to have a copy.
Sounds like they have plenty of money, they just have their priorities screwed up on how to spend it. What does a multi-million dollar stadium for the benefit of 11 boys have to do with providing basic education? (yes, I know there are actually more than 11 boys on the football team!)
hmmm.... the school district I live in and pay taxes to wants to raise a bond so that they can (among other things) make a 7 MILLION dollar renovation to the high school football stadium. They already won't buy enough textbooks for each student to have a copy.
Sounds like they have plenty of money, they just have their priorities screwed up on how to spend it. What does a multi-million dollar stadium for the benefit of 11 boys have to do with providing basic education? (yes, I know there are actually more than 11 boys on the football team!)
Because one of the main reasons alumni give money to schools is because of sports. Yes, I agree that priorities are screwed up, but a $7m renovation to a HS stadium means people will have a good time watching games and will, maybe, donate money once the team wins state 4 years in a row.
um... I'm talking public school system... high school. There are no alumni donations.
That stadium is totally taxpayer funded. And "having a good time watching games" can be done at a club league game just as easily as at the public high-school. No need to burden the taxpayers for your "good times".
<sarcasm> And if they spent that same 7 mil on teachers salaries and textbooks it would be such a waste! </sarcasm>
It's cause of all the Liberal Arts they shove down your throat.
Back in the day we learned how to do REAL things....We didn't sit around playing Elf-games on the computer we did things. It wasn't being smart to simply own a computer, it was smart to build one.
Kids nowadays have little no personal responsibility and need mommy and daddy to bail them out of anything.
Bad grade in school >>> Mommy to the rescue.
It'll be interesting when mommy's little special one is running the country.
um... I'm talking public school system... high school. There are no alumni donations.
Really? Maybe that's because they don't have a very good football stadium?
Quote:
That stadium is totally taxpayer funded.
That's because they don't have any alumni donations. And that's probably because they don't have a good stadium.
Quote:
And "having a good time watching games" can be done at a club league game just as easily as at the public high-school. No need to burden the taxpayers for your "good times".
I don't think you understand that I agree with you. I'm just saying that this is how it works. It sucks, but that's how it is.
Quote:
<sarcasm> And if they spent that same 7 mil on teachers salaries and textbooks it would be such a waste! </sarcasm>
It's cause of all the Liberal Arts they shove down your throat.
I totally agree, man.
Let's just make high school a trade school. You know? Let the science nerds beef up on math and science. Everyone else should learn how to get a job. Wanna learn history? Go to Barnes and f****** Noble, man. Wanna learn about art? Draw on your own free time. English? Save it for Daytona when you're working on that tan.
On the serious side, check out Ken Robinson's TED talk.
Let's just make high school a trade school. You know? Let the science nerds beef up on math and science. Everyone else should learn how to get a job. Wanna learn history? Go to Barnes and f****** Noble, man. Wanna learn about art? Draw on your own free time. English? Save it for Daytona when you're working on that tan.
On the serious side, check out Ken Robinson's TED talk.
I sense sarcasm.
Clearly there is a middle road between not teaching calculus until high school & having no art. Art is great, I am a musician myself; I play the saxophone. I just think not teaching real physics or math until college is a waste of the young ones minds in high school.
hmmm.... the school district I live in and pay taxes to wants to raise a bond so that they can (among other things) make a 7 MILLION dollar renovation to the high school football stadium. They already won't buy enough textbooks for each student to have a copy.
Sounds like they have plenty of money, they just have their priorities screwed up on how to spend it. What does a multi-million dollar stadium for the benefit of 11 boys have to do with providing basic education? (yes, I know there are actually more than 11 boys on the football team!)
You might think I'm in total agreement with you here, but I'm not. I imagine that school is putting in artificial turf? A lot of schools are doing that now, as in the long run it's arguably less expensive. As for the benefit of 11 people, well one can say it benefits the community. Football is a way of life in Texas.
The flip side of that is: Schools loves to spend money on things not directly related to education. TV studios, olympic pools, $100 million new schools...the list goes on.
I think it's actually worse than that. I think the vo-tech schools are just generally regarded as illegitimate. For the last 50 years, we've been sending kids to college get a "legitimate" liberal arts education?whether they want it or not.
Actually, I think we make them want it...."it" being the piece of paper, not the education.
Quote:
Back when I taught at a big R1 state school, I was always, always deeply saddened by kids who hated every class they took and hated the simple fact that they were wasting their money on an education they neither wanted nor needed.
I can imagine that would be disheartening, especially if they hated their major classes.
Quote:
I have never understood why they didn't just go to the local vo tech, learn a trade, and walk into an apprenticeship/assistant deal making more money than they ever would with a degree in "business."
Again, I think it's because we've taught them that's not OK. Vo-tech is for "stupid" kids. I know that was the perception when I was growing up. It's just the way our society is now.
By the way, I've heard a "business" degree is pretty useless unless it's from a top-ranked business school. Anyone else?
Comments
I've decided not to make any huge purchases for a couple of years.
Gonna keep driving the Civic. My twin bro (yes, there are two of us!) has a 2008 Z4 (he was lucky enough to be one of only two new hires a major American company took on in the last two years in its industrial design operations). I have a lot more debt though so it's not wise for me to get a new car. I'm also getting a roommate in a cheap apartment, no expensive furniture or electronics purchases (besides a new MBP when the time comes), no extravagant vacations, I'll brew my own starbucks iced coffee (this seriously is a huge savings right here), and so on. So the goal, obviously, is to pay that off as quickly as possible.
I'm putting 100% of what i'm allowed to contribute into retirement. But other than frugal living for a few years and retirement contributions, I'm not sure what exactly I should be paying off and whether I should also look into investing, etc. Pay off high interest loans first? Consolidate? Start investing on the side? Gah.
you might want to think about investing in some farm land with deep wells, solar panels/batteries, seed stock & some books on organic farming & agriculture in addition to field medicine...learning what diseased meat looks like (just 'cuz you shoot it while it's running away from you doesn't mean it's safe)...oh yeah, some heavy weapons to protect it all from the masses who seemingly have no idea about the veritable shite which is hitting the veritable fan as we all click away at our keyboards.
edit: right-click on "edit post" and "open link in new tab" will allow you to edit your post.
edit edit: Thanks for the advice Mr. Heinlein. You saw this all coming, didn't you?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_A._Heinlein
... Society has seemingly adapted to a place where the individual can do as they please. It is FREEDOM BABY!!... Walk through a local shopping mall and the youth wear their shorts down 6 inches or so from where the waist is and 2 sizes too large so things have to be held up with one hand as they stroll. FREEDOM BABY. FREEDOM at any price has cost us dearly. Gone are the "old timer" tried and true notions of minimum standards and discipline....
[/take out of context]
Freedom is what made America great! Anything else and you're a commie symp!
Oh, wait, the seventies are over... you're a terrorist!
My twin bro (yes, there are two of us!)
Be afraid, trumpty. Be very, very afraid. As for your comment to little Shawny, you really can be quite horrid at times, trumpty.
The US is/has become beholden to commerce not from a manufacturing stronghold but more from a marketing stronghold.
People are in debt because the lure is advertising and media that honestly are quite effective in pushing the message that you should have the right clothes and the right car and live in the right neighborhood.
Parents in many ways have failed their children. Many say "I don't want my child to go through what I did" well that's great if you were abused or molested as a child but if all your ass got was a bit of discipline then you're probably going to raise a problem child.
I remember thinking how I was going to hit the world @ 20 and have all the things I dreamt about. Never mind that I had no experience or inkling what it takes to have success in the real world.
Low pay+ bad habits+ no training = financial mess.
The only way to reverse this trend is for parents to start proactively teaching their kids about money. Everyone has a personal relationship with money. It dictates how they manage and view money. Getting your child ready for the responsiblity of managing money and developing that relationship early is key to averting financial ruin when they can least afford it.
Come on these problems aren't just created by lazy parents or teachers.
The US is/has become beholden to commerce not from a manufacturing stronghold but more from a marketing stronghold.
People are in debt because the lure is advertising and media that honestly are quite effective in pushing the message that you should have the right clothes and the right car and live in the right neighborhood.
Parents in many ways have failed their children. Many say "I don't want my child to go through what I did" well that's great if you were abused or molested as a child but if all your ass got was a bit of discipline then you're probably going to raise a problem child.
I remember thinking how I was going to hit the world @ 20 and have all the things I dreamt about. Never mind that I had no experience or inkling what it takes to have success in the real world.
Low pay+ bad habits+ no training = financial mess.
The only way to reverse this trend is for parents to start proactively teaching their kids about money. Everyone has a personal relationship with money. It dictates how they manage and view money. Getting your child ready for the responsiblity of managing money and developing that relationship early is key to averting financial ruin when they can least afford it.
Surely if advertising was that powerful, it would have been used in all other countries to similar effect. Ergo, it isn't that powerful.
Parents also aren't *that* big part of the equation. I recall research shows that basic, genetic instincts drive kids to primarily pick up their manners and attitudes from peers and equals, not parents. So while parents can and should teach the kids how money *works*, the friends and culture that surrounds them will have a lot of say in whether the kid ends up preferring e.g. self-sufficiency over appearance of wealth accompanied by debt.
Then why did these people go into teaching?... They KNEW before they ever got into that profession what the pay was, what the hours were, what the benefits were. Did they think things would get better AFTER they took the job?
If people wouldn't accept the crappy teaching jobs, the schools would have to raise pay/benefits to attract the teachers they need. No, really. If the teachers had the intestinal fortitude to actually do something instead f complain all day, then things WOULD change.
There are plenty of other jobs they could be doing.
Wow.
First, they went into teaching because it's a calling for most people. One is either a teacher or he isn't.
Secondly, you're right...there ARE other jobs. That's why some teachers judge that they'd do better in another job. Can you blame them?
Third, many areas of the country cannot get and keep quality applicants because of both working conditions and salary. Some county systems hire 800 new teachers a year. And they can't just raise pay many times...unless you think money grows on trees.
I've decided not to make any huge purchases for a couple of years.
That would be wise considering you will have just finished law school.
Gonna keep driving the Civic. My twin bro (yes, there are two of us!) has a 2008 Z4 (he was lucky enough to be one of only two new hires a major American company took on in the last two years in its industrial design operations). I have a lot more debt though so it's not wise for me to get a new car. I'm also getting a roommate in a cheap apartment, no expensive furniture or electronics purchases (besides a new MBP when the time comes), no extravagant vacations, I'll brew my own starbucks iced coffee (this seriously is a huge savings right here), and so on. So the goal, obviously, is to pay that off as quickly as possible.
Your family seems very big on cars. I know you've added quite a lot to the various car threads in here over the years, so it must be quite the sacrifice. Too bad your brother doesn't live in the same town so you two could be roommates. I'm sure that would be quite fun. Is he fraternal or identical?
Finally... brewing your own coffee?!?! That is quite the austerity program you've got going on there Shawn.
I'm putting 100% of what i'm allowed to contribute into retirement. But other than frugal living for a few years and retirement contributions, I'm not sure what exactly I should be paying off and whether I should also look into investing, etc. Pay off high interest loans first? Consolidate? Start investing on the side? Gah.
Well I could give you investment advice but it would all be related to lowering taxes which we know you would never want to do to yourself. I would look into this very soon after you start working though because as a single young man with no mortgage, the government will pretty much put the screws to you.
Then why did these people go into teaching?... They KNEW before they ever got into that profession what the pay was, what the hours were, what the benefits were. Did they think things would get better AFTER they took the job?
If people wouldn't accept the crappy teaching jobs, the schools would have to raise pay/benefits to attract the teachers they need. No, really. If the teachers had the intestinal fortitude to actually do something instead f complain all day, then things WOULD change.
There are plenty of other jobs they could be doing.
I think you have just explained why the attrition rate is at 50% for the five year mark.
Be afraid, trumpty. Be very, very afraid. As for your comment to little Shawny, you really can be quite horrid at times, trumpty.
Double the pleasure, double the fun.
Come on these problems aren't just created by lazy parents or teachers.
The US is/has become beholden to commerce not from a manufacturing stronghold but more from a marketing stronghold.
People are in debt because the lure is advertising and media that honestly are quite effective in pushing the message that you should have the right clothes and the right car and live in the right neighborhood.
Parents in many ways have failed their children. Many say "I don't want my child to go through what I did" well that's great if you were abused or molested as a child but if all your ass got was a bit of discipline then you're probably going to raise a problem child.
I remember thinking how I was going to hit the world @ 20 and have all the things I dreamt about. Never mind that I had no experience or inkling what it takes to have success in the real world.
Low pay+ bad habits+ no training = financial mess.
The only way to reverse this trend is for parents to start proactively teaching their kids about money. Everyone has a personal relationship with money. It dictates how they manage and view money. Getting your child ready for the responsiblity of managing money and developing that relationship early is key to averting financial ruin when they can least afford it.
While I would say that there is truth to what you say, I would say it goes much deeper than that. One of the principle problems is that many people think of "rich" as having certain brands or a certain size house. The entire middle and lower classes are guilty of this and most parents are simply passing on their financial habits instead of thinking about and modifying them. An asset is something that puts money in your pocket. Most people think of their own home as an asset, but it is just housing and purchasing it just means they have a nice inflation hedge. Let them lose their job, be injured for a bit or even have a life event like a divorce or child occur and suddenly their "asset" is eating them alive.
Poor Shawn probably feels like he has been teased a bit in this thread, but the reality is he will have an asset (hopefully) that will put money in his pocket for his entire life. He may still drive a Civic but on paper he will be worth a lot more than most folks just due to his education.
BTW Shawn, my cousin still drives a Civic even though he has made partner, has a very nice house and also funds his own drag racing team with his two sons.
People get fooled into thinking things are assets when they aren't. They also keep trying to increase their income when it is the most highly taxed financial source out there. Instead they should be thinking about passive income from assets. Timeshares aren't assets. A home is not an asset. Granite countertops are not assets and thinking that because you own these things your financial house is in order isn't the fault of just the marketing folks.
Is he fraternal or identical?
Fraternal, but he looks like me.
Finally... brewing your own coffee?!?! That is quite the austerity program you've got going on there Shawn.
Heh. Yeah, everyone comes to class with $4 Starbucks.
A couple of times I showed them up with Starbucks *and* Perrier. Beverage label-whoring at its finest right there.
But actually yeah it's easier for me to just go to Dunkin Donuts and get my $3 large iced coffee (black please). The financial aid people told us how buying coffee 5 times a week, 30 weeks a year, times 3 years can be anywhere from $1350 to $2000, which is more because we're all mostly living off loans and would have to pay back more on that. They said instead of buying that coffee out everyday for just those three years, if you invested the savings from that, over 30 years that little sacrifice is something like tens of thousands of dollars (I believe they said up to $50k, just from coffee!)
Well I could give you investment advice but it would all be related to lowering taxes which we know you would never want to do to yourself. I would look into this very soon after you start working though because as a single young man with no mortgage, the government will pretty much put the screws to you.
Oh, don't worry. I'm definitely not about paying any more taxes than what the law requires of me. That said, I have a brutal tax final to study for. Yikes.
BTW Shawn, my cousin still drives a Civic even though he has made partner, has a very nice house and also funds his own drag racing team with his two sons.
That's cool.
My cousin actually drives funny cars.
I actually think it's more than that. My theory is that 50 years ago, a certain percentage of people that were "college material" went to college.
..
50 years ago it was fine to learn a trade or work your way up in retail or go into sales. College is the new high school, and I'm not sure that's a good thing.
Blame the GI bill. All those returning WW2 vets went to college, and in America, your kids are supposed to be better off than you, so their kids went to college and then got advanced degrees. And then their kids went and got PhDs.
Of course, the secondary schools aren't blameless in all of this, but y'all know more about that than anyone here, I'd wager.
Blame the GI bill. All those returning WW2 vets went to college, and in America, your kids are supposed to be better off than you, so their kids went to college and then got advanced degrees. And then their kids went and got PhDs.
Of course, the secondary schools aren't blameless in all of this, but y'all know more about that than anyone here, I'd wager.
I think the secondary schools are slaves to public opinion. As the public demands more children go to college, so do the schools. Of course, there are vo-tech programs and what not...but I think they are looked down upon in affluent communities.
I think the secondary schools are slaves to public opinion. As the public demands more children go to college, so do the schools. Of course, there are vo-tech programs and what not...but I think they are looked down upon in affluent communities.
I think it's actually worse than that. I think the vo-tech schools are just generally regarded as illegitimate. For the last 50 years, we've been sending kids to college get a "legitimate" liberal arts education?whether they want it or not. Back when I taught at a big R1 state school, I was always, always deeply saddened by kids who hated every class they took and hated the simple fact that they were wasting their money on an education they neither wanted nor needed. I have never understood why they didn't just go to the local vo tech, learn a trade, and walk into an apprenticeship/assistant deal making more money than they ever would with a degree in "business."
Third, many areas of the country cannot get and keep quality applicants because of both working conditions and salary. Some county systems hire 800 new teachers a year. And they can't just raise pay many times...unless you think money grows on trees.
hmmm.... the school district I live in and pay taxes to wants to raise a bond so that they can (among other things) make a 7 MILLION dollar renovation to the high school football stadium. They already won't buy enough textbooks for each student to have a copy.
Sounds like they have plenty of money, they just have their priorities screwed up on how to spend it. What does a multi-million dollar stadium for the benefit of 11 boys have to do with providing basic education? (yes, I know there are actually more than 11 boys on the football team!)
hmmm.... the school district I live in and pay taxes to wants to raise a bond so that they can (among other things) make a 7 MILLION dollar renovation to the high school football stadium. They already won't buy enough textbooks for each student to have a copy.
Sounds like they have plenty of money, they just have their priorities screwed up on how to spend it. What does a multi-million dollar stadium for the benefit of 11 boys have to do with providing basic education? (yes, I know there are actually more than 11 boys on the football team!)
Because one of the main reasons alumni give money to schools is because of sports. Yes, I agree that priorities are screwed up, but a $7m renovation to a HS stadium means people will have a good time watching games and will, maybe, donate money once the team wins state 4 years in a row.
That stadium is totally taxpayer funded. And "having a good time watching games" can be done at a club league game just as easily as at the public high-school. No need to burden the taxpayers for your "good times".
<sarcasm> And if they spent that same 7 mil on teachers salaries and textbooks it would be such a waste! </sarcasm>
Back in the day we learned how to do REAL things....We didn't sit around playing Elf-games on the computer we did things. It wasn't being smart to simply own a computer, it was smart to build one.
Kids nowadays have little no personal responsibility and need mommy and daddy to bail them out of anything.
Bad grade in school >>> Mommy to the rescue.
It'll be interesting when mommy's little special one is running the country.
um... I'm talking public school system... high school. There are no alumni donations.
Really? Maybe that's because they don't have a very good football stadium?
That stadium is totally taxpayer funded.
That's because they don't have any alumni donations. And that's probably because they don't have a good stadium.
And "having a good time watching games" can be done at a club league game just as easily as at the public high-school. No need to burden the taxpayers for your "good times".
I don't think you understand that I agree with you. I'm just saying that this is how it works. It sucks, but that's how it is.
<sarcasm> And if they spent that same 7 mil on teachers salaries and textbooks it would be such a waste! </sarcasm>
Again, I agree.
It's cause of all the Liberal Arts they shove down your throat.
I totally agree, man.
Let's just make high school a trade school. You know? Let the science nerds beef up on math and science. Everyone else should learn how to get a job. Wanna learn history? Go to Barnes and f****** Noble, man. Wanna learn about art? Draw on your own free time. English? Save it for Daytona when you're working on that tan.
On the serious side, check out Ken Robinson's TED talk.
I totally agree, man.
Let's just make high school a trade school. You know? Let the science nerds beef up on math and science. Everyone else should learn how to get a job. Wanna learn history? Go to Barnes and f****** Noble, man. Wanna learn about art? Draw on your own free time. English? Save it for Daytona when you're working on that tan.
On the serious side, check out Ken Robinson's TED talk.
I sense sarcasm.
Clearly there is a middle road between not teaching calculus until high school & having no art. Art is great, I am a musician myself; I play the saxophone. I just think not teaching real physics or math until college is a waste of the young ones minds in high school.
hmmm.... the school district I live in and pay taxes to wants to raise a bond so that they can (among other things) make a 7 MILLION dollar renovation to the high school football stadium. They already won't buy enough textbooks for each student to have a copy.
Sounds like they have plenty of money, they just have their priorities screwed up on how to spend it. What does a multi-million dollar stadium for the benefit of 11 boys have to do with providing basic education? (yes, I know there are actually more than 11 boys on the football team!)
You might think I'm in total agreement with you here, but I'm not. I imagine that school is putting in artificial turf? A lot of schools are doing that now, as in the long run it's arguably less expensive. As for the benefit of 11 people, well one can say it benefits the community. Football is a way of life in Texas.
The flip side of that is: Schools loves to spend money on things not directly related to education. TV studios, olympic pools, $100 million new schools...the list goes on.
I think it's actually worse than that. I think the vo-tech schools are just generally regarded as illegitimate. For the last 50 years, we've been sending kids to college get a "legitimate" liberal arts education?whether they want it or not.
Actually, I think we make them want it...."it" being the piece of paper, not the education.
Back when I taught at a big R1 state school, I was always, always deeply saddened by kids who hated every class they took and hated the simple fact that they were wasting their money on an education they neither wanted nor needed.
I can imagine that would be disheartening, especially if they hated their major classes.
I have never understood why they didn't just go to the local vo tech, learn a trade, and walk into an apprenticeship/assistant deal making more money than they ever would with a degree in "business."
Again, I think it's because we've taught them that's not OK. Vo-tech is for "stupid" kids. I know that was the perception when I was growing up. It's just the way our society is now.
By the way, I've heard a "business" degree is pretty useless unless it's from a top-ranked business school. Anyone else?