I think I know what Apple will do when they announce their TV's

13

Comments

  • Reply 41 of 79
    vineavinea Posts: 5,585member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ireland View Post


    For my vision of what this TV will be like, comparing it to an iMac is worse than comparing Apple TV box to the Mac mini. They will "completely" different animals.



    It's exactly like comparing an aTV box to the mini since your "vision" isn't much more than cramming an aTV into a HDTV.



    So an iMac with a large 40+" low res screen is direcly comparable in concept because we're still talking convergence of TV and computing. The question is a matter of degree of computing desired in the convergence. Sony has bet on quite a bit of computing given the horsepower on the PS3. Apple has hedged their bets with both a low end media extender (aTV) and a higher power offering (Mac Mini).



    Personally, the most likely near term change is that the Mini gets HDMI/HDCP output and perhaps enough integrated GPU horsepower (X4500...hopefully NOT at GS45 266Mhz but at the GM47 640Mhz) to run something like WoW.
  • Reply 42 of 79
    backtomacbacktomac Posts: 4,579member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by vinea View Post


    It's exactly like comparing an aTV box to the mini since your "vision" isn't much more than cramming an aTV into a HDTV.



    So an iMac with a large 40+" low res screen is direcly comparable in concept because we're still talking convergence of TV and computing. The question is a matter of degree of computing desired in the convergence. Sony has bet on quite a bit of computing given the horsepower on the PS3. Apple has hedged their bets with both a low end media extender (aTV) and a higher power offering (Mac Mini).



    Personally, the most likely near term change is that the Mini gets HDMI/HDCP output and perhaps enough integrated GPU horsepower (X4500...hopefully NOT at GS45 266Mhz but at the GM47 640Mhz) to run something like WoW.



    IMO, I think Apple will find a way to introduce more functionality. One way I can think of off the top of my head is integration with audience participation shows. Think real time voting for American Idol and the like. I can see a whole crop of shows developed to take advantage of such functionality.



    How about user contributed news? iReporter for the broadcast tv.
  • Reply 43 of 79
    minderbinderminderbinder Posts: 1,703member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ireland View Post


    Comparing any of those to a headless desktop is kind of missing the way Apple thinks in my opinion. I was one of the folks who said they'd do a tablet, but not before they do their ultraportable. And I was also one of the ones here who said that they were not only going to make a phone, but that they "have too" for their own sakes.



    No, having thought about it long and hard I just don't see them making this so-called headless Mac. Steve doesn't think like that, in rightly so in this regard. I'm a shareholder too!



    I don't see why it's different than those, the reasons people give now are basically the same as they did then, basically "if they haven't by now, it will never happen".



    And what's "rightly so" about not making one? It seems like a big mistake to me - the biggest reason they haven't is that it would look like an admission that Steve has been wrong all along.
  • Reply 44 of 79
    gugygugy Posts: 794member
    Let's keep beating this dead horse!



    Apple will only enter the TV business if they provide something absolutely new that will revolutionize the same business. Just like the iPhone.



    just adding AppleTV to a HDTV set is not enough.



    Just adding it's brand to an HDTV set is not enough.



    The only way they can make a dent of this extremely saturate market with lower profit margins will be to bring their software and a new and inventive way that would add computer capabilities to the HDTV set that can be update using software only. Maybe that could happen. People tend to keep their tv sets for years and the pace of upgrading it is much slower than computers.



    So what we are looking here is just not a TV set, but a different beast altogether.



    Apple is smart and they usually focus on markets that they can feel they will make a large profit, sell tons of units and change or revolutionize the ball game. That's why they dropped the printers, digital cameras and more recently the iPod Hi-Fi speaker system markets.
  • Reply 45 of 79
    irelandireland Posts: 17,535member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by gugy View Post


    Let's keep beating this dead horse!



    Apple will only enter the TV business if they provide something absolutely new that will revolutionize the same business. Just like the iPhone.



    just adding AppleTV to a HDTV set is not enough.



    Just adding it's brand to an HDTV set is not enough.



    The only way they can make a dent of this extremely saturate market with lower profit margins will be to bring their software and a new and inventive way that would add computer capabilities to the HDTV set that can be update using software only. Maybe that could happen. People tend to keep their tv sets for years and the pace of upgrading it is much slower than computers.



    So what we are looking here is just not a TV set, but a different beast altogether.



    Apple is smart and they usually focus on markets that they can feel they will make a large profit, sell tons of units and change or revolutionize the ball game. That's why they dropped the printers, digital cameras and more recently the iPod Hi-Fi speaker system markets.



    So you agree with us then? Good.
  • Reply 46 of 79
    gugygugy Posts: 794member
    I believe Apple WILL NOT make a HDTV set for the sake of just a HDTV.



    I believe Apple WILL NOT make a HDTV with ONLY AppleTV on it.



    I have been saying that for probably couple of years now and you, Ireland keeps disagreeing and making fun of me. That's cool, I might be wrong but, I have strong feeling I am not.



    AppleTV is a cool product but doesn't have mass appeal as the way it is now.



    Now, if Apple have something amazing under the sleeve that will DIFFERENTIATE a display from the competition, that will be worth the investment and people moving into it, that people will pay premium and the product will not be obsolete as fast as computers, Then I would be very curious to see what that is. That's something very different than just a TV.



    But again, not sure if Apple is moving into this direction at this point. My feeling is that Apple rather create something more interesting on AppleTV end that will have more appeal, cheaper and that people can just plug on to their displays. until then I dream about getting my Pioneer Kuro 9g 60" this year. That's a really cool plama HDTV.
  • Reply 47 of 79
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by backtomac View Post


    Well its more than just the TV or display itself. All TV offers is display content. It does nothing else. All added functionality comes from the cable provider and they do a shitty job.



    Example: I have HDTV cable box that allows me to get a whopping TEN HD channels and DVR functionality. The set top box is a Motorola box called 'Moxie'. The UI is actually nice. But the box itself has crapped out once requiring replacement and currently isn't functioning properly and I suspect it will need replacement. The unit runs very warm and the fans are on constantly. That's why I suspect that it is a HW failure. Overall the experience is underwhelming. The lack of HD channels isn't the TV's fault or the Moxie HW's fault but still the overall experience is again underwhelming.




    direct tv has 90+ HD channels.
  • Reply 48 of 79
    irelandireland Posts: 17,535member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by gugy View Post


    I believe Apple WILL NOT make a HDTV set for the sake of just a HDTV.



    Wow, good work there. You believe the obvious. Yes I'm being sarcastic, but who wouldn't be when comments like that are being said.



    Now if I remember correctly you were the person that was saying Apple won't make a TV, they are not going to get into that business.



    We all know it won't be a "standard" TV, that's the whole point. It will have a hard drive, a specialized version of OS X, 802.11n, Wifi etc., and it will be damn sexy. But it isn't too far from an Apple TV box within an Apple branded television. It's simply the next step, that was my whole point all along. And yes it will be seamlessly integrated etc. It will also (obviously) have an Apple sense of fit and finish and elegant style which should make consumers sit up and take notice. All other facts aside, it will be a TV - just a very good one with modern power and features you can't get on most existing TV's. Just as the iPhone is new and amazing, but it is a phone.



    I agree with you on the Kuro, best TV available today. Sadly Pioneer are getting out of the display business though, damn.
  • Reply 49 of 79
    backtomacbacktomac Posts: 4,579member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Joe_the_dragon View Post


    direct tv has 90+ HD channels.



    Yeah I'm starting to think that I need to switch. I'm reluctant as my brother in law had DTV and claims that service was very unreliable.



    Gots some thinkin' to do.
  • Reply 50 of 79
    areseearesee Posts: 776member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by gugy View Post


    Let's keep beating this dead horse!



    Apple will only enter the TV business if they provide something absolutely new that will revolutionize the same business. Just like the iPhone.



    just adding AppleTV to a HDTV set is not enough.



    Just adding it's brand to an HDTV set is not enough.



    The only way they can make a dent of this extremely saturate market with lower profit margins will be to bring their software and a new and inventive way that would add computer capabilities to the HDTV set that can be update using software only. Maybe that could happen. People tend to keep their tv sets for years and the pace of upgrading it is much slower than computers.



    So what we are looking here is just not a TV set, but a different beast altogether.



    Apple is smart and they usually focus on markets that they can feel they will make a large profit, sell tons of units and change or revolutionize the ball game. That's why they dropped the printers, digital cameras and more recently the iPod Hi-Fi speaker system markets.



    Right on. When I asked what was wrong with the current TVs the only complaint that I got was about the Set Top box (STB) that connected the TV with a service provider. Apple has that, it's called an Apple TV. It may not be perfect and there is much to improve with it, but the current Apple TV is Apples' entry in this space.



    Now if like with the mobile phones, there was something fundamentally wrong with the TVs and Apple had a better idea, then we might see a Apple branded TV. But as it stands now I don't see an Apple branded TV.
  • Reply 51 of 79
    gugygugy Posts: 794member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ireland View Post


    Wow, good work there. You believe the obvious. Yes I'm being sarcastic, but who wouldn't be when comments like that are being said.



    Now if I remember correctly you were the person that was saying Apple won't make a TV, they are not going to get into that business.



    We all know it won't be a "standard" TV, that's the whole point. It will have a hard drive, a specialized version of OS X, 802.11n, Wifi etc., and it will be damn sexy. But it isn't too far from an Apple TV box within an Apple branded television. It's simply the next step, that was my whole point all along. And yes it will be seamlessly integrated etc. It will also (obviously) have an Apple sense of fit and finish and elegant style which should make consumers sit up and take notice. All other facts aside, it will be a TV - just a very good one with modern power and features you can't get on most existing TV's. Just as the iPhone is new and amazing, but it is a phone.



    I agree with you on the Kuro, best TV available today. Sadly Pioneer are getting out of the display business though, damn.



    Pioneer is not getting out the TV business. They are outsourcing the glass production to another manufacturer. (panasonic) in order to stay in business.



    You say you were sarcastic, but you attacked many times just because I said Apple would not make a stand alone TV or have AppleTV into it. I was always open to the idea of maybe something else like maybe a computer or else.

    It seems like you agree NOW with me that AppleTV built-in and a stand alone TV is not going to happen. Something I have been preaching all along.



    Anyway, whatever happens is better be very cool. It's hard to beat the image quality of the Pioneer Kuro. Apple has a huge ladder to climb in order to match that. If indeed Apple is pursuing this avenue. I am still think Apple main focus will be AppleTV as a box and the whole display idea, they will not jump into it.

    Time will tell, but I rather have a great AppleTv media center kind of thing than a display with Apple logo on it. AIO display will probably not have the same image quality that a nice Kuro display or any other hi-end brand will sport anyway.
  • Reply 52 of 79
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,132member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by aresee View Post


    Right on. When I asked what was wrong with the current TVs the only complaint that I got was about the Set Top box (STB) that connected the TV with a service provider. Apple has that, it's called an Apple TV. It may not be perfect and there is much to improve with it, but the current Apple TV is Apples' entry in this space.



    Now if like with the mobile phones, there was something fundamentally wrong with the TVs and Apple had a better idea, then we might see a Apple branded TV. But as it stands now I don't see an Apple branded TV.



    Pray tell what was fundamentally wrong with mobile phones? My mother has a Blackberry and loves it. The only thing Apple brought was touch screen and a nice GUI which is their strongsuit.



    So what you must be thinking is "TVs are perfect and there's really no way to differentiate them"



    But what some of us are saying is that TVs aren't perfect..they're not smart in anyway. You change the channel and the tuner locks into a different frequency or line or whatever it does.



    IPTV has the chance to be different. We have a chance to leverage metadata in ways that today's Broadcasts cannot. Apple has the ability to leverage iTunes content though IPTV and make a bundle.



    It's really just an extension of an iMac. What is the ethos of Apple? Smart design running a their Golden Egg ...OS X. Does Steve Jobs like cable...does he like boxes lying around. We all know he doesn't. The chances are Apple is looking at the situation and thinking "We can capture $229 per HDTV or make the whole widget and capture everything"



    It really comes down do profitability. Could Apple innovate enough to make the venture profitable. What we're saying is "yes".
  • Reply 53 of 79
    areseearesee Posts: 776member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post


    Pray tell what was fundamentally wrong with mobile phones? My mother has a Blackberry and loves it. The only thing Apple brought was touch screen and a nice GUI which is their strongsuit.



    So what you must be thinking is "TVs are perfect and there's really no way to differentiate them"



    But what some of us are saying is that TVs aren't perfect..they're not smart in anyway. You change the channel and the tuner locks into a different frequency or line or whatever it does.



    IPTV has the chance to be different. We have a chance to leverage metadata in ways that today's Broadcasts cannot. Apple has the ability to leverage iTunes content though IPTV and make a bundle.



    It's really just an extension of an iMac. What is the ethos of Apple? Smart design running a their Golden Egg ...OS X. Does Steve Jobs like cable...does he like boxes lying around. We all know he doesn't. The chances are Apple is looking at the situation and thinking "We can capture $229 per HDTV or make the whole widget and capture everything"



    It really comes down do profitability. Could Apple innovate enough to make the venture profitable. What we're saying is "yes".



    But your talking about the STBs not the TVs. Those can all be improved, including Apples Apple TV.



    Yes, Apple can sell a $229 box for each HDTV sold. Or they can sell a tiny portion of all the HDTVs sold. Its better to sell a STB to all the HDTV owners. More profit that way.



    I can't say about the Blackberry, but the user interface for standard cell phone was straight for the toilet. Nobody, but nobody has anything good to say them. I don't hear the same complaints about the TVs. Some about the STBs for individual service providers. But none about the TVs themselves. Your own example about IPTV falls into that category. It can be met with a STB, not TV required.
  • Reply 54 of 79
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,132member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by aresee View Post


    But your talking about the STBs not the TVs. Those can all be improved, including Apples Apple TV.



    Yes, Apple can sell a $229 box for each HDTV sold. Or they can sell a tiny portion of all the HDTVs sold. Its better to sell a STB to all the HDTV owners. More profit that way.



    I can't say about the Blackberry, but the user interface for standard cell phone was straight for the toilet. Nobody, but nobody has anything good to say them. I don't hear the same complaints about the TVs. Some about the STBs for individual service providers. But none about the TVs themselves. Your own example about IPTV falls into that category. It can be met with a STB, not TV required.



    But in that same token one could take on the corrolary position "It's better to sell a Mac mini and take advantage of all those monitors out there vs trying to sell an AiO"



    We know what Apple prefers to push. They like to capture the "whole pie". When it makes sense to delve into HDTV and content delivery Apple will be looking for ways to increase revenue and profits. As always the advantage is going to be their software.
  • Reply 55 of 79
    irelandireland Posts: 17,535member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by gugy View Post


    Pioneer is not getting out the TV business. They are outsourcing the glass production to another manufacturer. (panasonic) in order to stay in business.



    Yeah, the whole display. But I believe they'll be selling only the Kuro product.



    http://www.switched.com/2008/03/07/p...plasma-panels/
  • Reply 56 of 79
    irelandireland Posts: 17,535member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by gugy


    It seems like you agree NOW with me that AppleTV built-in and a stand alone TV is not going to happen. Something I have been preaching all along.



    But I don't agree with that. Ultimately that's what this TV will be, with some additional perks possibly. It will be the combining of the Apple TV functionality with a big screen TV in one box, a TV. I don't know where you got confused about this, but you are clearly missing what I'm talking about.
  • Reply 57 of 79
    areseearesee Posts: 776member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post


    But in that same token one could take on the corrolary position "It's better to sell a Mac mini and take advantage of all those monitors out there vs trying to sell an AiO"



    We know what Apple prefers to push. They like to capture the "whole pie". When it makes sense to delve into HDTV and content delivery Apple will be looking for ways to increase revenue and profits. As always the advantage is going to be their software.



    But what is the proportion of the computer buyers willing to chuck their monitors to get an AOI verses the proportion of the Apple TV buyers willing to chuck their HDTVs to get an Apple TV? My bet is on the computers. Besides, don't most computer buyers replace their monitors when buying a new computer? I sure did. While Apple may like to sell the "whole pie" they will settle for part of the pie if need be.
  • Reply 58 of 79
    irelandireland Posts: 17,535member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmurchison


    IPTV has the chance to be different. We have a chance to leverage metadata in ways that today's Broadcasts cannot. Apple has the ability to leverage iTunes content though IPTV and make a bundle.



    It's really just an extension of an iMac. What is the ethos of Apple? Smart design running a their Golden Egg ...OS X. Does Steve Jobs like cable...does he like boxes lying around. We all know he doesn't. The chances are Apple is looking at the situation and thinking "We can capture $229 per HDTV or make the whole widget and capture everything"



    It really comes down do profitability. Could Apple innovate enough to make the venture profitable. What we're saying is "yes".



    Exactly, why this isn't that obvious to everyone is kind of beyond me.
  • Reply 59 of 79
    irelandireland Posts: 17,535member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by aresee View Post


    But what is the proportion of the computer buyers willing to chuck their monitors to get an AOI verses the proportion of the Apple TV buyers willing to chuck their HDTVs to get an Apple TV? My bet is on the computers. Besides, don't most computer buyers replace their monitors when buying a new computer? I sure did. While Apple may like to sell the "whole pie" they will settle for part of the pie if need be.



    Which is why I started this thread insinuating both the box and the TV as Apple products can coexist. If you already have a TV they will push the box, if you don't or you want the latest and greatest they'll suggest their TV.



    The whole way they will push this TV (i.e. market it) will be style, seamless integration, the AIO factor and in particular the iTunes TV service.



    You could buy this TV, stick it in your living room with a PS3 under it and be capable of doing anything you wanted. I still say this TV should have a standard DVD slot in the side (or somewhere), but we all know how stubborn el-Jobso is with these things, even when the solution is an obvious one.
  • Reply 60 of 79
    gugygugy Posts: 794member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ireland View Post


    But I don't agree with that. Ultimately that's what this TV will be, with some additional perks possibly. It will be the combining of the Apple TV functionality with a big screen TV in one box, a TV. I don't know where you got confused about this, but you are clearly missing what I'm talking about.



    I don't think I missed the point or got confused.

    If this TV indeed comes to life it has to be more than just AppleTV on it and "some perks" Apple clearly has to innovate big time in order to attract people and down the road make more people switch their HDTV sets to Apple. What that innovation is going to be, I have no idea. The current model of AppleTV is interesting, but it will take long time to become a mass appeal thing.



    Plus like I said. I am not a big fan of AIO. Something usually is sacrificed along the way. If you are looking for a killer image quality on a larger display, I am not sure if that's going to happen under Apple AIO television.



    As for Pioneer Kuro the 9 generation units that are going to be selling this summer they are going to be ALL Pioneer parts.

    The next generation (10G) they will have the glass produced at Panasonic but the rest will be all Pioneer.



    If you want more info go to this site:



    http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=167
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