Why doesn't Apple make friends?

Posted:
in General Discussion edited January 2014
Why is it companies like google make a phone by forming a consortium of companies to make a viable platform but Apple insists on maintaining complete control and delivering a sub-standard SDK.



Why is it Apple uses the monopoly they gathered on portable media devices to only benefit them not the content providers. Sure they managed to make deals with lots of music and tv people to deliver music on the iTunes store, but more and more are backing out (look at NBC). An iPod will be a nice paper weight when there is no more original content to put on it.



And after 20 years they still haven't managed to understand the concept of 3rd party software. They really are hurting adobe with their lack of 64-bit carbon api.



As a "software guy" from the 1970s and on, I am disappointed Apple keeps making the same mistakes over and over. The kids nowadays buying Apples in some craze don't remember the days when they became useless when PCs took off. The same thing is going to happen again because Apple is just that nasty neighbor that can't get along with anyone!
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 62
    chuckerchucker Posts: 5,089member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DigitalChan View Post


    Why is it companies like google make a phone by forming a consortium of companies to make a viable platform



    Mandatory reading.
  • Reply 2 of 62
    trobertstroberts Posts: 701member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DigitalChan View Post


    Sure they managed to make deals with lots of music and tv people to deliver music on the iTunes store, but more and more are backing out (look at NBC). An iPod will be a nice paper weight when there is no more original content to put on it.



    I thought NBC was trying to get their content back on iTunes.
  • Reply 3 of 62
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Chucker View Post


    Mandatory reading.



    That man just seems very angry.



    I guess its a different menality:



    Develop in secret and stick users what you come up with.



    vs.



    A collaborative development process where many more people get a say.



    Keeping the iPhone secret until months before its launch didn't make it a better product, it just increased hype.



    Quote:

    I thought NBC was trying to get their content back on iTunes.



    Not from my readings... Ever since Apple refused to let them price their own content or give them a share in hardware profit sales(that are due to their content on iTunes store) the relationship has gone south....



    The taste is sour in NBC's mouth because the Apple is rotten.



    I am a very concerned consumer. If Apple gains more market responsibility are we going to see industry wide rash decisions akin to ones they use on their own platform? What a disaster for computing!
  • Reply 4 of 62
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,273member
    Consortium ....design by committee rarely work out that well. You get manufacturers joining these things and working hard to further their own interests.



    You only need look at the debacle that was "creating the nextgen DVD replacement"



    How far has HPNA come in getting home phoneline networking going?



    I'm tired of this BS. I'd say maybe 30% of these groupings deliver fruit.





    Why isn't linux ruling the world? Conventional Wisdom would state that having potentially millions of programmers working in spirit would be an unbeatable advantage.



    What you seem to hoping is that "more Chefs end up creating a better meal" . Sadly that's not been historically evident. It is difficult to create outstanding products when you have a multiplicity of "visions"



    As for Apple their success sprouted when they did in fact open up. They support Open Standards when feasible (GCC, CalDAV, LDAP, Wiki, etc) and have managed to straddle this with proprietary stuff to create a unique product that still works with other products.



    $180 per share bears out their success quite nicely. Though pessimism is rampant and you will surely be able to conjure up many things to complain about but to me your points are without merit.
  • Reply 5 of 62
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DigitalChan View Post


    Why is it companies like google make a phone by forming a consortium of companies to make a viable platform but Apple insists on maintaining complete control and delivering a sub-standard SDK.



    That's your opinion. I happen to love my iPhone, WAY better than the Treo I had before. I have no problem with the current lack of 3rd party apps. (But it'll be interesting to see what comes.)



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DigitalChan View Post


    An iPod will be a nice paper weight when there is no more original content to put on it.



    I have about 80 gigs of content in iTunes and NONE of it was purchased from the iTunes Store. The store could disappear tomorrow and iTunes along with my iPod/iPhone will still be my most-used app on the Mac. (You MAY recall that iPods came out and became successful long before the iTunes Store came along.)



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DigitalChan View Post


    ... The kids nowadays buying Apples in some craze don't remember the days when they became useless when PCs took off...



    My Apple II worked just fine during the "dark days" preceding 1984. It did everything that the neighbors IBM could do.





    Not meant to sound apologetic, but rather just refuting your OPINIONS that really have no basis in reality.
  • Reply 6 of 62
    hirohiro Posts: 2,663member
    DC goes 0 for 2. FSJ has it exactly right, and NBC-Universal IS in contact with Apple over listing content again. The board had a quiet word with dipweed and suddenly he is nowhere to be found. Now the Universal VPs are making all kissy-face in the press when talking about iTunes and video sales. Some sideways talk bout DRM being the piece that will make all right with the world again. We know Apple already has DRMed content so I don't think Universal will be long before they are back onboard. The dance just has to look good for a bit so the board doesn't have to fire dipweed for the appearance that they neutered him.



    I'm not naming dipweed because part of his problem is he seems to like reading his own name too much. Well Steve does too, but he seems to be right, and in business being right covers for a lot of egomania.
  • Reply 7 of 62
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by KingOfSomewhereHot View Post


    That's your opinion. I happen to love my iPhone, WAY better than the Treo I had before. I have no problem with the current lack of 3rd party apps. (But it'll be interesting to see what comes.)




    Yeah I liked my Pentium II a lot better than my 386; both are nothing compared to my dated AMD Athlon machine.



    Any news on having AMD's on macs? or is that a no-go?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by KingOfSomewhereHot View Post


    I have about 80 gigs of content in iTunes and NONE of it was purchased from the iTunes Store. The store could disappear tomorrow and iTunes along with my iPod/iPhone will still be my most-used app on the Mac. (You MAY recall that iPods came out and became successful long before the iTunes Store came along.)




    Steal much music? Oh I suppose some of it could have been ripped by CDs.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by KingOfSomewhereHot View Post


    My Apple II worked just fine during the "dark days" preceding 1984. It did everything that the neighbors IBM could do.



    Well maybe you didn't use your computer as hard as I did. I wasted way too much time on Apple in the 80s and early 90s to trust them ever again.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by KingOfSomewhereHot View Post


    Not meant to sound apologetic, but rather just refuting your OPINIONS that really have no basis in reality.



    Perhaps your reality on the top of a very high Apple tree.
  • Reply 8 of 62
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,273member
    May I one day hope to be as unsuccessful as Apple





    Billions in the bank

    Influence and respect

    a growing fanbase of new users



    It's easy to be sarcastic and lace your thoughts with pessimism. But realize you are the sum total of your thoughts.
  • Reply 9 of 62
    kickahakickaha Posts: 8,760member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DigitalChan View Post


    Well maybe you didn't use your computer as hard as I did. I wasted way too much time on Apple in the 80s and early 90s to trust them ever again.



    So... you're just trolling then?



    I'm not sure why, looking at NBC's flailing in the net-delivery space, that you think it signifies a massive wave of defections from the iTMS... if anything, it just keeps getting stronger. Hell, look at the just announced same-as-DVD-release date purchases.



    NBC screwed up, and they're going to be back as soon as they can figure out how while saving face.



    Also, I'd assert that you haven't been really watching the rise of the iTMS if you think that Apple has *any* intention of catering to the content providers. Everyone else did... and everyone else is pretty much out of the running now, aren't they? Apple is out to *BREAK* the content providers' business models, and so far they're doing so spectacularly. They are dragging the providers, kicking and screaming, into the digital age, and if the providers had half a brain (which they don't, obviously, or they would have figured it out for themselves), they'd be thankful for it, because it's the only way those providers are going to have a business left at all.



    Expect more of the same - more stellar products, more busting the back of the media distributors' lockin, and more rises in the share price.



    (Oh, and frankly - Carbon was a necessary evil when it was born - it can't die off soon enough. Adobe has been dragging their ass for years, time for them to get with the damned program. Seriously.)
  • Reply 10 of 62
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Kickaha View Post


    So... you're just trolling then?



    I'm not sure why, looking at NBC's flailing in the net-delivery space, that you think it signifies a massive wave of defections from the iTMS... if anything, it just keeps getting stronger. Hell, look at the just announced same-as-DVD-release date purchases.



    NBC screwed up, and they're going to be back as soon as they can figure out how while saving face.



    Also, I'd assert that you haven't been really watching the rise of the iTMS if you think that Apple has *any* intention of catering to the content providers. Everyone else did... and everyone else is pretty much out of the running now, aren't they? Apple is out to *BREAK* the content providers' business models, and so far they're doing so spectacularly. They are dragging the providers, kicking and screaming, into the digital age, and if the providers had half a brain (which they don't, obviously, or they would have figured it out for themselves), they'd be thankful for it, because it's the only way those providers are going to have a business left at all.



    Expect more of the same - more stellar products, more busting the back of the media distributors' lockin, and more rises in the share price.



    (Oh, and frankly - Carbon was a necessary evil when it was born - it can't die off soon enough. Adobe has been dragging their ass for years, time for them to get with the damned program. Seriously.)



    Do you think people enjoy a company in the long run that destroyed an entire industry, putting countless people out of work? Noone thinks about that. They just love Steve Jobs instead.



    Carbon being a "necessary evil" is just silly. Apple hates third party. They insist on control.



    Your post is the kind of attitude that will result in the failure of Apple (yet again).
  • Reply 11 of 62
    kickahakickaha Posts: 8,760member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DigitalChan View Post


    Do you think people enjoy a company in the long run that destroyed an entire industry, putting countless people out of work? Noone thinks about that. They just love Steve Jobs instead.



    You're putting me on, right?



    Let's see... do I think people enjoy a company that is in the middle of gutting an industry that abuses its power, treats its customers like criminals, has sued numerous people for no reason, ruining lives and financial situations just so they can continue their unethical business practices that also fuck over the artists that they claim they're protecting??



    Gee, uh, lemme think here a second... HELL YES!



    You're delusional if you think otherwise... or work for that industry. Um, tough?



    Quote:

    Carbon being a "necessary evil" is just silly.



    I take it you're not a programmer then... or are locked in that 70's mentality. Carbon was a direct result of the legacy Mac programmers bitching that they'd have to start using a modern approach to their software. It was *not* part of the strategy of OS X until the third parties forced Apple to spend engineering resources on it. Hey, I get not wanting to lose your hard-won experience and code base you have at hand, but if you're in this industry and not willing to adapt, you're in the wrong damned industry. From day one, Carbon was intended for legacy apps only, not new development... straight from the horse's mouth at WWDC when I attended and it was unveiled. Not Apple's fault some developers didn't listen, they were told what the situation was, and have had what, a decade to adapt? Thank god it's being put down finally, it's time has more than gone. Time to move on.



    Quote:

    Apple hates third party. They insist on control.



    They insist on quality. If someone can't step up to that, screw 'em. I agree wholeheartedly. Keep up, or get out of the way.



    As for hating third parties... I really don't know what company you're watching, but compare the APIs available for all developers on MacOS X vs. those available on Windows. Now compare the APIs that are kept perpetually closed for Apple's or MS's private use to crush competition. Yeah. MS? SOP. Apple? Not so much. Want to use something in /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/? Go for it, the tools to inspect the frameworks are already installed... just don't be surprised if the API or behavior changes.



    This claim of hating third parties is just silly.



    Quote:

    Your post is the kind of attitude that will result in the failure of Apple (yet again).



    Yeeeeeah, because it's working out so badly so far.
  • Reply 12 of 62
    gongon Posts: 2,437member
    While DigitalChan's ramblings have little point, Apple *does* get away with a lot of stuff that is bad to the customer and others would not get away with. Walling up the iPhone/iPod software ecosystem is a prime example of that. Shipping combo drives in their laptops is an example of that. Not selling a single machine with desktop parts is an example of that. Not selling anything with Blu-Ray is an example of that.



    While Apple does (or refrains from doing) these things, it grows marketshare and has high customer satisfaction. It doesn't mean these particular moves from Apple are good for the customer - they do them because there's a tiny profit to be sucked from it and they *can* do it in the face of often hilariously bad competition from Microsoft, Nokia et al. If someone is to blame for the occasional oddity, omission or intentional weakness in an Apple product, it's really these other companies failing so hard they don't put any pressure on Apple to do better.
  • Reply 13 of 62
    kickahakickaha Posts: 8,760member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gon View Post


    While DigitalChan's ramblings have little point, Apple *does* get away with a lot of stuff that is bad to the customer and others would not get away with.



    Agreed, some of their actions on the face of it don't seem to be very consumer-oriented, but generally there's a reason behind it if you look deeply enough. (And sometimes they're just being asshats, of course.)



    Quote:

    Walling up the iPhone/iPod software ecosystem is a prime example of that.



    I assume you mean the iTMS-only download path? It's interesting - talk to the small devs, and they're fricking *THRILLED*... they get a guaranteed spot in front of all iPhone/iPod touch users, which they normally wouldn't get, they don't have to deal with payment systems, they don't have to worry about bandwidth... for those guys, it's fantastic - and a healthy competitive ecosystem is, in the end, good for the consumer. But it is, on the face of it, pretty annoying to folks who are used to being able to install *anything*. We'll see if the bet pays off.



    Quote:

    Shipping combo drives in their laptops is an example of that. Not selling a single machine with desktop parts is an example of that.



    No argument on the first... I assume by the latter you mean for cheap replacement by the user?



    Quote:

    Not selling anything with Blu-Ray is an example of that.



    I think this is another long-term hedge, that physical media are going to give way to digital downloads. I can't say I agree with the short-term decision, but my gut says this is another long-view bet. Jobs tends to like those, and he's got a good track record so far.



    Quote:

    While Apple does (or refrains from doing) these things, it grows marketshare and has high customer satisfaction. It doesn't mean these particular moves from Apple are good for the customer - they do them because there's a tiny profit to be sucked from it and they *can* do it in the face of often hilariously bad competition from Microsoft, Nokia et al. If someone is to blame for the occasional oddity, omission or intentional weakness in an Apple product, it's really these other companies failing so hard they don't put any pressure on Apple to do better.



    Quite true.
  • Reply 14 of 62
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DigitalChan View Post


    Steal much music?...



    Not a single song... there's a closet full of CD's to back that up.

    And that goes a long way towards my argument that the iTunes Music Store is not necessary for the iPod brand to remain successful.



    (I am, in fact, very quick to call P2P "sharing" of copyrighted music THEFT! Prison time seems fair punishment.)
  • Reply 15 of 62
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,273member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gon View Post


    While DigitalChan's ramblings have little point, Apple *does* get away with a lot of stuff that is bad to the customer and others would not get away with. Walling up the iPhone/iPod software ecosystem is a prime example of that. Shipping combo drives in their laptops is an example of that. Not selling a single machine with desktop parts is an example of that. Not selling anything with Blu-Ray is an example of that.



    While Apple does (or refrains from doing) these things, it grows marketshare and has high customer satisfaction. It doesn't mean these particular moves from Apple are good for the customer - they do them because there's a tiny profit to be sucked from it and they *can* do it in the face of often hilariously bad competition from Microsoft, Nokia et al. If someone is to blame for the occasional oddity, omission or intentional weakness in an Apple product, it's really these other companies failing so hard they don't put any pressure on Apple to do better.



    Sorry Gon I have to disagree on multiple points here.



    iPhone/iPod software. I applaud Apple for making sure there's a high threshhold for iPhone apps. I don't want some garbage sneaking onto my future phone. I think Apple's App Store concept is nice. You keep 70% and they handle the rest. Couldn't be more simpler and trust the App Store will be Central Market.



    I don't understand the complains really. Apple still doesn't serialize their OS. How much is that costing them every new OS? Apple never came down on the Apple TV hackers they haven't even gone after Hackintosh DiY'ers.



    Apple's busted their asses to keep iTunes tracks at $.99 an amazing feat when you consider the industries are so greedy they'll shaft the very writers bringing you content until a strike is needed.



    Apple's certainly kept a vast majority of people happy. The amount of people bailing from Wintel is a testament to that fact. They're not coming over for Blu-ray ..they're running from Vista and the general malaise that is Windows.









    I don't think consumers really care or can differentiate between laptop and desktop parts. All they know is that today's new computer is MUCH faster than their computer if they've had it for a few years or longer. Apple not putting Superdrives in lower configs is them being obtuse IMO. I agree on that point.



    Blu-ray???? It's not even a finished spec and people expect Apple to just bolt it in? We'll feel free to help Apple go into the bowels of OS X and add the AACS, HDCP and BD+. Microsoft loves to add DRM to their products. Apple's a bit more cautious about it. If Blu-ray was such a hot commodity it would have done a bit better than a 2% increase in sales after March 08.
  • Reply 16 of 62
    gongon Posts: 2,437member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Kickaha View Post


    Agreed, some of their actions on the face of it don't seem to be very consumer-oriented, but generally there's a reason behind it if you look deeply enough. (And sometimes they're just being asshats, of course.)



    I assume you mean the iTMS-only download path? It's interesting - talk to the small devs, and they're fricking *THRILLED*... they get a guaranteed spot in front of all iPhone/iPod touch users, which they normally wouldn't get, they don't have to deal with payment systems, they don't have to worry about bandwidth... for those guys, it's fantastic - and a healthy competitive ecosystem is, in the end, good for the consumer. But it is, on the face of it, pretty annoying to folks who are used to being able to install *anything*. We'll see if the bet pays off.



    Fallacy of the excluded middle - they could both offer the sales channel some small devs are thrilled about, *and* let others install stuff they want. I'm pretty sure all the small devs making software Apple doesn't want on their phone are *not* thrilled, and neither are their users.



    Apple is excluding anything that wants to run in the background, they are excluding anything that can run scripts (= platforms) which would again take away their control, they are blocking IM and VOIP, and even reserve the right to block anything that they feel is bad for their image. Can one make a ballistics calculator for the iPhone? Who knows, maybe it's bad for their image. What about some indie games... Super Columbine Massacre RPG? Nope. SCUMM VM? Nope, a platform. Anything with gray trademark/patent/etc status will obviously be excluded to steer clear of trouble. Your game looks too much like Geometry Wars? Out with you. And so on.



    As you can tell, I'm personally rather miffed by this. Both as a consumer and a potential developer.
    Quote:

    No argument on the first... I assume by the latter you mean for cheap replacement by the user?



    Well, that too, but *mostly* the price/performance ratio that you can't get with anything but desktop hardware. Even with Apple tax layered thick, the final result would be unmistakably different from both Mac Mini and low-end Mac Pro. If replacement parts were allowed, the new model would feed the Mac Pro, while the parts available for Mac Pro would take care of the initial demand. But that's just a secondary concern.

    Quote:

    I think this is another long-term hedge, that physical media are going to give way to digital downloads. I can't say I agree with the short-term decision, but my gut says this is another long-view bet. Jobs tends to like those, and he's got a good track record so far.



    I have a hard time seeing it as such. I don't know if iTMS video is going to be a huge success, but I'm sure whether Apple puts Blu-Ray on their computers is not going to make or break it. Right now some folks do want Blu-Ray, so might as well give it to them and charge for the privilege instead of having them carry their money to Sony/PS3. Also, there are still some weird people out there who want to write their data on optical disks, and BR's now the only game in town. I acknowledge hmurchison's point on this though - if Apple had to butcher OS X to mirror Vista, it certainly wouldn't be worth it for BR playback. Then it'd be a long-term bet of *never* supporting BR content protection, and only supporting BR for data.
  • Reply 17 of 62
    kickahakickaha Posts: 8,760member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gon View Post


    As you can tell, I'm personally rather miffed by this. Both as a consumer and a potential developer.



    Really? It was subtle.



    I'm not overly thrilled with it, nor am I sure it's going to end up being the utopia they envision... but there is a definite reason behind it, and it's not universally reviled. It definitely has the initial "WTF?" factor, but like most such things coming out of Cupertino, some reflection gives it some legs to as least be possibly viable. Maybe. Perhaps.



    Quote:

    Well, that too, but *mostly* the price/performance ratio that you can't get with anything but desktop hardware. Even with Apple tax layered thick, the final result would be unmistakably different from both Mac Mini and low-end Mac Pro. If replacement parts were allowed, the new model would feed the Mac Pro, while the parts available for Mac Pro would take care of the initial demand. But that's just a secondary concern.



    Yeah, dunno that that's ever going to happen.



    Quote:

    I have a hard time seeing it as such. I don't know if iTMS video is going to be a huge success, but I'm sure whether Apple puts Blu-Ray on their computers is not going to make or break it. Right now some folks do want Blu-Ray, so might as well give it to them and charge for the privilege instead of having them carry their money to Sony/PS3. Also, there are still some weird people out there who want to write their data on optical disks, and BR's now the only game in town. I acknowledge hmurchison's point on this though - if Apple had to butcher OS X to mirror Vista, it certainly wouldn't be worth it for BR playback. Then it'd be a long-term bet of *never* supporting BR content protection, and only supporting BR for data.



    Yeah, I can see BR/Data being supported at some point, but I think they're really hoping that HD delivery on physical optical media continues to be anemic while they provide their vision instead. But eh, who knows.
  • Reply 18 of 62
    gongon Posts: 2,437member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post


    iPhone/iPod software. I applaud Apple for making sure there's a high threshhold for iPhone apps. I don't want some garbage sneaking onto my future phone. I think Apple's App Store concept is nice. You keep 70% and they handle the rest. Couldn't be more simpler and trust the App Store will be Central Market.



    And, as you are well aware, you'd have this benefit simply by choosing to only get apps from the App Store. Applauding others losing the choice to do anything else is not nice, to say the least. Many apps I'd potentially like to use on the iPhone/iPod will *not* be allowed on. This really hurts my interest towards the platform on a practical level, in addition to the principle/gut thing that tells me it's always bullshit if the platform and not the device owner gets to choose whom to trust. It's all right to steer the user out of harm's way, even to hide things that are potentially harmful, but never to cage them permanently. There has to be a documented latch that pops the cage open.
  • Reply 19 of 62
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,273member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gon View Post


    And, as you are well aware, you'd have this benefit simply by choosing to only get apps from the App Store. Applauding others losing the choice to do anything else is not nice, to say the least. Many apps I'd potentially like to use on the iPhone/iPod will *not* be allowed on. This really hurts my interest towards the platform on a practical level, in addition to the principle/gut thing that tells me it's always bullshit if the platform and not the device owner gets to choose whom to trust. It's all right to steer the user out of harm's way, even to hide things that are potentially harmful, but never to cage them permanently. There has to be a documented latch that pops the cage open.



    I agree Gon...I'd love to have more choice but the Mobile Phone industry in the US is anything but "Open" and brimming with choice. I guess I'll reserve final judgment until I can see what apps Apple is "ok" with and what apps become blocked.



    Apple has done right by me more than wrong lately so we'll see how this plays out.
  • Reply 20 of 62
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Kickaha View Post


    You're putting me on, right?



    Let's see... do I think people enjoy a company that is in the middle of gutting an industry that abuses its power, treats its customers like criminals, has sued numerous people for no reason, ruining lives and financial situations just so they can continue their unethical business practices that also fuck over the artists that they claim they're protecting??



    Gee, uh, lemme think here a second... HELL YES!



    You're delusional if you think otherwise... or work for that industry. Um, tough?







    I take it you're not a programmer then... or are locked in that 70's mentality. Carbon was a direct result of the legacy Mac programmers bitching that they'd have to start using a modern approach to their software. It was *not* part of the strategy of OS X until the third parties forced Apple to spend engineering resources on it. Hey, I get not wanting to lose your hard-won experience and code base you have at hand, but if you're in this industry and not willing to adapt, you're in the wrong damned industry. From day one, Carbon was intended for legacy apps only, not new development... straight from the horse's mouth at WWDC when I attended and it was unveiled. Not Apple's fault some developers didn't listen, they were told what the situation was, and have had what, a decade to adapt? Thank god it's being put down finally, it's time has more than gone. Time to move on.







    They insist on quality. If someone can't step up to that, screw 'em. I agree wholeheartedly. Keep up, or get out of the way.



    As for hating third parties... I really don't know what company you're watching, but compare the APIs available for all developers on MacOS X vs. those available on Windows. Now compare the APIs that are kept perpetually closed for Apple's or MS's private use to crush competition. Yeah. MS? SOP. Apple? Not so much. Want to use something in /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/? Go for it, the tools to inspect the frameworks are already installed... just don't be surprised if the API or behavior changes.



    This claim of hating third parties is just silly.







    Yeeeeeah, because it's working out so badly so far.



    No the very restrictive SDK is proof of their lack of regard for 3rd party development.



    Their lack of profit sharing on hardware sales with content providers proves they can't maintain long lasting relationships. Zune sales go partly to the content industries.



    I have been a programmer for a long time. It is not a 70s mentality to assume your interfaces don't change overnight. Once you publish an interface, you stick with it. That is good software engineering. You can ADD things, but you'd better think doubly hard when removing something.



    When you've got millions upon millions of lines of code invested in one API, you don't kill it. Hand over the carbon libraries and let adobe make them 64-bit. Makes a lot more sense from an engineering point of view.



    Apple just wanted to kill carbon because it uses C rather than Obj-C. Obj-C forces companies to make a bigger investment in the apple platform to enter it at all, because C code can be more cross platform. While Apple loves getting things from the windows world(Office, etc..), they hate to see things go the other way.



    Apple just can't make friends. I am sure if Apple were a person they'd be the kid who gets a bunch of friends, gives them the special koolaid to drink, then starts over.
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