Ballmer: you can buy Vista and downgrade to XP for free

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  • Reply 61 of 94
    SpamSandwichspamsandwich Posts: 33,407member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by timothyjay2004 View Post


    To me, innovative means invent. So when I said to be innovative, I really meant that they need to invent/bring new ideas to the table, which they really haven't done since windows 95.



    I understand the confusion, but innovate and invent don't mean the same thing. Your point was still made.
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  • Reply 62 of 94
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lfmorrison View Post


    Only Vista Business and Vista Ultimate come with the downgrade rights. Vista Home Basic and Vista Home Premium do not.



    That's the piece of the puzzle that I didn't know. That's really kind of crappy for those who really only needed the basic/home version and are having problems with it. It's not very fair.
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  • Reply 63 of 94
    shaminoshamino Posts: 563member
    Ballmer's comment is a con-job. Sure, you can downgrade if you buy Vista Ultimate or Business.



    If, however, you're trying to buy an inexpensive PC, you're SOL. There's no downgrade option from either version of Vista Home. So if you're buying a home system and want XP, you have to first pay extra for an upgrade to Vista Business before you can downgrade back to XP.
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  • Reply 64 of 94
    booionicbooionic Posts: 1member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post


    Oh, jeez. What a desperate move by Ballmer. He has to be one of the biggest idiots to ever step into the role of CEO.



    Ballmer is the quintessential example of how our world and society is simply unravelling from the inside. You should watch a film called Idiocracy, this is the way we are headed.



    The fact is he is No. 1. in the largest software company in the world and he is an utter buffoon to put it in mild terms.



    If Microsoft want people to use Windows 7 they'll have to give it away free. Linux will be so much further ahead by then, Mac will continue to gain share, but all the computers now not good enough to run Vista will run Linux very nicely thanks. You want awesome effects, check out Beryl/Compiz.



    Open Source delights, free to all with a purpose. They exist because we have a genuine need for them. not what Microsoft tells us we need.



    Microsoft have advised businesses that it is better to get past the pain of transitioning to Vista sooner rather than later. What fucking idiot thought that bit of PR up???? I think business will go to open source rather than fool about like that, it is not fun and exciting to have to relearn all over again how to do common tasks that we rely upon in our workflow.
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  • Reply 65 of 94
    macfandavemacfandave Posts: 603member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by gastroboy View Post


    I will repeat:

    Quote:

    "Each step forward has initially been quite a step backwards for users, and the progress has been made at the users' (considerable) expense."



    Oh what rubbish! They were not beyond Apple's influence. They were Apple's choices and each time we were fed a line about how clever Apple was making them.



    Apple made the price of DVD-R's plummet? They invented USB? (Of course, they did invent FireWire, but that's a whole 'nother story.) Apple made SCSI either obsolete or fringe? You are the ignoramus here.





    Quote:

    Please explain how it is necessary and good to have to use 2 separate applications to perform a task that one should be doing if it hadn't been sabotaged by Apple. I've been an Apple user for almost 25 years now but I am not oblivious to how Apple careers all over the landscape, because it can get away with it, and always have the starry eyed Mac users applauding on the sideline their brilliant driving.



    Generally, Apple's upgrades have been positive. The frustrating thing about the iMovie catastrophe is that iMovie '08 has some great features, but took away some of the things that we great in '06. And, in reality, you are very oblivious because Apple gets pilloried by some hardcore group or another for every upgrade it makes. There is always this Greek chorus of complainers that show up at every change. The Niner Whiners were the worst.





    Quote:

    Wish I could follow this line of argument, but I can't! Sorry! And I do hope Obama gets a chance to make a difference before some "loyal", "right-thinking", "freedom-loving" American shoots him.



    OK, I'm going to type V-E-R-Y S-L-O-W-L-Y for you to see my point. You see, the Obama campaign has the theme of "Change." (BTW, I do support him.) But, "change" could be for the better (Mac OS X, especially starting with 10.2) or for the worse (Vista). It is assumed that when Obama speaks of change that it will be for the better, but I wish it were more explicitly stated. You already hear the bigots spewing crap like he would "change" America into an Islamic Republic.



    Quote:

    And you are not allowed to offend the great American people by saying that is how things have been done for the last 238 years.



    You don't find too many of us to be very proud of slavery, lynching, Jim Crow laws, Plessy vs. Ferguson, the Dred Scott Case, our treatment of minorities and women in the past, Vietnam, etc. And looking at surveys taken currently, more than 70% of us are not proud of George W. Bush. We are all not as arrogant as our Dear Leader.



    By the way, my country is going to turn 232 on July 4, and we don't look a day over 225!
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  • Reply 66 of 94
    benroethigbenroethig Posts: 2,782member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Rot'nApple View Post


    The real question now is, can Microsoft survive the next 9 or 10 years???



    Unless Apple changes their strategy, yes they will continue to limp on.
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  • Reply 67 of 94
    ronsterronster Posts: 153member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tokolosh View Post


    talk about lipstick on a pig. Can you imagine Jobs pulling that stunt?



    "One more thing! Today we bring you the new iPhone. But don't worry, for those who don't like GPS, 3G, and some really bitchin' video conferencing capabilities you can push this reset button on the back of this phone and it will instantly become the generation 1 iPhone."





    No I think it's more along the line of this:



    "Today we bring you the latest maintenance release of Leopard...for those who are unsatisfied with the bugs and glitches it current has (and we are diligently working those ones and other, you can downgrade to Tiger for free"





    I wonder if that would ever happen?
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  • Reply 68 of 94
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BenRoethig View Post


    Unless Apple changes their strategy, yes they will continue to limp on.



    THey earn more net profit than Apple and even have a higher gross to net ratio than Apple. They are far from limping.
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  • Reply 69 of 94
    benroethigbenroethig Posts: 2,782member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    THey earn more net profit than Apple and even have a higher gross to net ratio than Apple. They are far from limping.



    In terms of marketshare and profit, they are still very strong. In terms of PR and quality control they are in the dumps. Of course this has to do with a near monopoly for windows in many market segments.
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  • Reply 70 of 94
    gastroboygastroboy Posts: 530member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by macFanDave View Post


    Apple made the price of DVD-R's plummet? They invented USB? (Of course, they did invent FireWire, but that's a whole 'nother story.) Apple made SCSI either obsolete or fringe? You are the ignoramus here.



    That media was going to become cheap was a surprise? That they chose to lock their users into decades of generally unsupported hardware, because their's was "Superior"? History has said otherwise.



    That they keep screwing up FireWire (in OSX 10.3 & 10.5) or removing it (from iPods) or not including it on some of their Mac models? That they completely obsoleted SCSI in one swoop with the G4s and OSX, whereas PCs still use it in server implementations?



    That they actually built hardware with no way to save data or attempt rescues in a crisis, other than over a network which in all likelihood would then be unavailable? I know, I found myself in that position.



    That they dragged their heels over CDR, DVDR, USB2, 256 bit system and Unicode (of which they were a founding member for Christ's sake). That they changed the plugs on FW800 and have repeatedly used ports that require expensive adaptors to use, which they don't include with the hardware. That they used over the years a vast array of mutually incompatible video connectors, tied to various monitors.



    That they dragged us through 2 major incompatible changes of processors and a major system change because they had deadended themselves through their own choices? Each time almost crippling their users' productivity and forcing them to pay for major changes in hardware and software to do nothing else but try and stay in business. In all cases causing us to go backwards for a year or more.



    That you then ignore the vast majority of the rest of my list?



    You are talking out of your Apple flavoured arse!



    Quote:

    There is always this Greek chorus of complainers that show up at every change. The Niner Whiners were the worst.



    That is the stupid attitude that blames the victims, because they apparently haven't a clue what all the above did to them or their bottom lines.



    Nobody objected to changes that brought the improvements we had been pleading for for ages. It was entirely reasonable though to object to arbitrary, crippling change that damaged the ability to continue working productively with existing investments.



    Apple has an extremely disdainful attitude to its users, I guess they have them pegged as submissive, uncritical devotees. They love throwing out the baby with the bathwater, because it isn't their baby, they've got a new one.



    The Niners' objections were to broken user interface conventions that Apple itself had set up years before and were essential elements in user productivity. Also changes like Font usage in OSX that 8 years later is still crap.



    Quote:

    OK, I'm going to type V-E-R-Y S-L-O-W-L-Y for you to see my point. You see, the Obama campaign has the theme of "Change." (BTW, I do support him.) But, "change" could be for the better (Mac OS X, especially starting with 10.2) or for the worse (Vista). It is assumed that when Obama speaks of change that it will be for the better, but I wish it were more explicitly stated. You already hear the bigots spewing crap like he would "change" America into an Islamic Republic.



    The S-L-O-W typing is for your own benefit. Obama cannily knows the American public and he isn't about to tell them that they are part of the problem and are going to have to change themselves. After all they voted for and supported Bush twice because he is as ignorant and prejudiced as they are.



    Like Bush they believe America is not the problem, that all they need is to invade more countries for oil so they can continue to do donuts in the carparks of the United States of Allyoucaneat.



    Quote:

    You don't find too many of us to be very proud of slavery, lynching, Jim Crow laws, Plessy vs. Ferguson, the Dred Scott Case, our treatment of minorities and women in the past, Vietnam, etc. And looking at surveys taken currently, more than 70% of us are not proud of George W. Bush. We are all not as arrogant as our Dear Leader.



    And you certainly don't "all" like to vote. Nor see what is fundamentally wrong with a system that is so fascinated by its own propaganda and fictionalised history that it ignores the Plutocracy masquerading as a Democracy.



    Quote:

    By the way, my country is going to turn 232 on July 4, and we don't look a day over 225!



    My apologies, my off the cuff calculations were from a date more meaningful to us.
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  • Reply 71 of 94
    elrothelroth Posts: 1,201member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tokolosh View Post


    talk about lipstick on a pig. Can you imagine Jobs pulling that stunt?



    Except for that little iMovie '08 boondoggle. After the Macworld keynote where Jobs so excitedly introduced iMovie '08, Apple quietly announced that the old iMovie HD would be available as a free download for people who wanted or needed it. (iMovie '08 could not fully play iMovie HD files).
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  • Reply 72 of 94
    rot'napplerot'napple Posts: 1,839member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by gastroboy View Post


    Obama cannily knows the American public and he isn't about to tell them that they are part of the problem and are going to have to change themselves. After all they voted for and supported Bush twice because he is as ignorant and prejudiced as they are.



    No, Obama will gladly tell the American public they are part of the problem because that is one of the Democratic Party talking point. He's just such a sweet talking snake oil salesman that it won't register with enough people, and they will go out and probably cast their vote for him. Why, so history can be made and a "Black" becomes president. How about MLK's "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character." message he preached? You can't talk about Obama and his associates without the "R" word being leveled at you, so you can't get the bottom of the content that makes up his character. He talks about change... what's he changed? They say Washington is so partisan, what "coming together" did Obama do? What legislation did he author or support that he gave as well as he took in order for it's passage? These are some of the questions bothering me and is why I don't support the man and the press doesn't do anything about it. He's their guy! Hell, Chris Matthew's leg gets all tingly for Pete's sake. However, only the so called "educated" and "cultural elitist" such as Michelle Obama, opps, can't talk about her either, are the ones that think America is the problem. I mean she has to pay back her college loan! Shocking!! How about she protest "Big Ed." and the high salaries of university professors and administrative staff. It seems to be all the rage with "Big Oil" and high gas prices. Who else thinks America is the problem, how about a majority of the "diplomats" in the UN that come from countries that would just as soon drag you out to the street and shoot you then give you freedom of speech or a fair trial. However, the "ignorant and prejudiced" average joe who "clings to his gun and bible" from the fly over heartland part of the country I bet would tell you - "You're full of sh*t!"



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by gastroboy View Post


    Like Bush they believe America is not the problem, that all they need is to invade more countries for oil so they can continue to do donuts in the carparks of the United States of Allyoucaneat.



    Again with this idiotic remark of invading more countries for oil? If that's true, where's the damn oil??????????? My SUV's ready for lower gas prices!



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by gastroboy View Post


    Nor see what is fundamentally wrong with a system that is so fascinated by its own propaganda and fictionalised history that it ignores the Plutocracy masquerading as a Democracy.



    Good thing too... considering that America is not a Democracy but a Republic! To bad you were busy thinking of a sentence that would include the words "fascinated", "propaganda", "fictionalised history", "Plutocracy" and last but not least "masquerading" and not bother to fact-check! Regarding "Plutocracy", hell, I'd like to be a Rich SOB and join the other Rich SOB's up on Capitol Hill. Maybe if I had the Queen's Jewelry, I could join?! Of course then I'd have to decide whether to join with the democrats who have a majority of millionaires in congress or republicans? [/QUOTE]



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by gastroboy View Post


    Wish I could follow this line of argument, but I can't! Sorry! And I do hope Obama gets a chance to make a difference before some "loyal", "right-thinking", "freedom-loving" American shoots him.





    before some "loyal", "right-thinking", "freedom-loving" American shoots him... You obviously don't know THE CLINTONS! That's why Obama doesn't want Hillary as VP, because then she's just one heartbeat away from the presidency and who is in her way??? Remember what she said, she's in it to win it! Tell me how that line of thinking of hers has changed?





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by gastroboy View Post


    And you are not allowed to offend the great American people by saying that is how things have been done for the last 238 years.



    Americans don't take offense. Our sentiments are more in tune with the Jack Nicholson (Col. Jessup) character in the movie "A Few Good Men": "You see Danny, I can deal with the bullets, and the bombs, and the blood. I don't want money, and I don't want medals. What I do want is for you to stand there in that faggoty white uniform and with your Harvard mouth extend me some fucking courtesy. You gotta ask me nicely."



    See it's just envy from other countries that in the last 238 years America has come so far, so fast, while other countries where the sun never sets, it's dusk! Yeah Baby, Yeah!!! (a little Austen Power lingo).



    PS. Being your typical American "mutt" because my American father married a lady from England, gives me a little right to have some harmless fun at the expense of my "adopted" homeland where half my family lives! God Save the Queen, no one here is going to.
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  • Reply 73 of 94
    gastroboygastroboy Posts: 530member
    You've tagged me to the wrong country.



    Bush did not invade Iraq to save the Iraqis or the World from Saddam Hussein. Nor because he has some ideological antipathy to dictators brutal or otherwise. If he did he would have invaded North Korea, which has supported more terrorists than Saddam ever did.



    But then this is the thinking of a man who spouts nonsense like "Democracies don't need WMD!" Americans are so well informed they don't even catch the irony of such statements.



    Iraq is a mixed bag of securing middle eastern oil supplies, not just in Iraq, "fixing it" for Israel, exercising America's big stick which hadn't been wielded for a while, making a bit of money for the good ole boys in the Skull and Bones, a bit of Biblical nonsense and "Leadership", whatever that means.



    The fact it didn't produce any of the above, except slipping a wad into Halliburton's back pocket, is proof that this ne'er-do-well President didn't think it would?



    I've heard the old "envy" thing from many self centred individuals.



    Isn't there just a possibility that people can be jack of self serving, grasping hypocrisy that plays as beneficent well-meaning farce, all at others' expense, and call it for what it is?



    btw I was reviewing what you wrote "because Americans don't take offense" and, looking past the popping eyeballs and pulsating veins, I caught this gem:



    Quote:

    America is not a Democracy but a Republic!



    Guess you won't have to pay back your college dues!
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  • Reply 74 of 94
    ulriculric Posts: 5member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jmcglinn View Post


    Trying to be everything to everyone is certainly stretching them pretty badly.



    Microsoft is always concerned with backwards compatibility. You can run a DOS program from 1988 on a brand new Vista computer. Windows APIs from the the start all work.



    Just a note.

    Actually Vista 64-bit doesn't support any DOS or 16-bit windows applications, that backward compatibility has all been dropped from the 64-bit version of the OS.
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  • Reply 75 of 94
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ulric View Post


    Just a note.

    Actually Vista 64-bit doesn't support any DOS or 16-bit windows applications, that backward compatibility has all been dropped from the 64-bit version of the OS.



    Can we at least say that MS supports legacy code far longer than it should and often to the detriment of its ability to progress their platform?
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  • Reply 76 of 94
    hezekiahbhezekiahb Posts: 448member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Buck View Post


    By getting none?



    Good call. Microsoft's problem is Bill Gates was really good at selling crap, Ballmer isn't.



    Seriously, what a stupid comment to say it's a good deal to be getting both, wow the ignorance.
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  • Reply 77 of 94
    hezekiahbhezekiahb Posts: 448member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by gastroboy View Post


    You've tagged me to the wrong country.



    Bush did not invade Iraq to save the Iraqis or the World from Saddam Hussein. Nor because he has some ideological antipathy to dictators brutal or otherwise. If he did he would have invaded North Korea, which has supported more terrorists than Saddam ever did.



    But then this is the thinking of a man who spouts nonsense like "Democracies don't need WMD!" Americans are so well informed they don't even catch the irony of such statements.



    Iraq is a mixed bag of securing middle eastern oil supplies, not just in Iraq, "fixing it" for Israel, exercising America's big stick which hadn't been wielded for a while, making a bit of money for the good ole boys in the Skull and Bones, a bit of Biblical nonsense and "Leadership", whatever that means.



    The fact it didn't produce any of the above, except slipping a wad into Halliburton's back pocket, is proof that this ne'er-do-well President didn't think it would?



    I've heard the old "envy" thing from many self centred individuals.



    Isn't there just a possibility that people can be jack of self serving, grasping hypocrisy that plays as beneficent well-meaning farce, all at others' expense, and call it for what it is?



    btw I was reviewing what you wrote "because Americans don't take offense" and, looking past the popping eyeballs and pulsating veins, I caught this gem:







    Guess you won't have to pay back your college dues!



    That's right, Obama clenched the nomination today. Well here we go, now nothing is safe from the political banter.



    Man, & now I'm not going to be able to watch national news anymore without seeing the constant Obama love dribble...oh wait, nothing has changed.
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  • Reply 78 of 94
    gastroboygastroboy Posts: 530member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    Can we at least say that MS supports legacy code far longer than it should and often to the detriment of its ability to progress their platform?



    I guess those are the choices people make. PC & Windows users get continuity and longevity out of both their hardware and software.



    We get a sense of superiority.



    But then Windows users don't get the ability to browse the Internet, get and send email, word process, do spreadsheets or DTP, use databases etc.



    That's just the price they pay for making a bad choice.
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  • Reply 79 of 94
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,954member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by gastroboy View Post


    I guess those are the choices people make. PC & Windows users get continuity and longevity out of both their hardware and software.



    We get a sense of superiority.



    But then Windows users don't get the ability to browse the Internet, get and send email, word process, do spreadsheets or DTP, use databases etc.



    That's just the price they pay for making a bad choice.



    If you're trying to make a point, it's lost on me. Some kind of sarcasm? Or some muddled point?
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  • Reply 80 of 94
    sequitursequitur Posts: 1,910member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by timothyjay2004 View Post




    I for one would love to see Mac OS become the new world standard, but at the same time, competition is good and important for business and I'd also hate to see MS fail and go away. This is a sad announcement for MS... instead of promoting their newest OS, they're promoting their almost a decade old OS, XP...



    I don't understand why some Mac users want MS to fail either. As you said, competition is good for business. But I DON'T want Mac OS to become the new world standard either. Right now, MS is the target for all the hackers and other malicious a__holes. Having Mac OS become the world standard would NOT bring anything to the table for users except a lot of malware.
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