I've used everything from a Psion 3a to an IBM Thinkpad with a touch screen (today actually - an insurance guy came round and I had to sign on it) with various Palm, Z88s, Phones and whatever inbetween.
Nothing IME beats an A5 ringbound paper pad (or moleskin if you want to be fancy) and a Rotring altro stylograph pen for instant 'it just works' with no worries over dropping it, getting it wet, breaking it or running out of batteries. Anything else is technowank. You learn that as you get older and the drawer full of gadgets you aren't using no longer closes.
I completely agree w/ u... mostly... I think that some tech is very pathetic and over used/ estimated. A pad of paper of moleskin will be better than tech for a long time... but paper is or should be on its way out... and eventually tech will overcome it
Nothing IME beats an A5 ringbound paper pad (or moleskin if you want to be fancy) and a Rotring altro stylograph pen for instant 'it just works' with no worries over dropping it, getting it wet, breaking it or running out of batteries. Anything else is technowank. You learn that as you get older and the drawer full of gadgets you aren't using no longer closes.
That was exactly what I found out when I had my TabletPC. More specifically, it was more hassle to take notes on the tablet, even with the handwriting recognition (even if it HAD worked well), and SLOWER than taking them on paper. Also, I find that I like to be able to flip back a page or two at a time, to review stuff, and I just didn't get the same feel for exactly where the notes were with the tablet. With a notebook, I know by feel where to flip to to get what I want. I lost that kinesthetic cue with the tablet. It could be solved with a large surface though, I expect (22"-24" display size, as a slate).
Maple on the iPhone is a great idea. With the right menu structures, I don't think that the size of the iPhone needs to be a limitation to an effective implementation. It would also be fine if the iPhone version was build on top of the Classic Worksheet interface (essentially just a command-line version). In fact, I liked your idea so much that I just sent an email to Maplesoft inquiring about whether they are planning a Maple light release for the iPhone.
<nod> One of the big obstacles that I see to bringing Maple to the iPhone etc is the huge, clunky, archaic command system. While absurdly powerful, it's also absurdly difficult to use. Maple is getting a lot better in recent releases, with the Clickable Math interface they are building, but I can't help but feel that Maple is about due for a complete overhaul from scratch. It is still, fundamentally, software rooted in 30 year old computing paradigms. I think that the Multitouch platform kinda gives Maplesoft an ideal opportunity for just such an overhaul. They have and extraordinary engine already, so I don't think it would be an insurmountable task to rebuild the UI from the ground up to specifically fit into GUI land.
Also, I think I agree that it could be done on the current screen size, but it would be much more efficient with a larger work area.
As to input technology for a larger tablet like device I don't think that is impossible if Apple really wanted to attack the market with hand writing recognition. A larger tablet would likely revert to being OS/X based and have access to much more powerful processors than anything from the past.
I'm definitely thinking more along the lines of Star Trek: The Next Generation (remember the com pads?), than hand writing. A stylus is nice for precision drawing, but if we have Multitouch, assuming there is a suitable rapid-input method, it's not really good for anything else.
Earlier I mentioned some different input technologies floating around the web. Here are some links:
These are worth a look to get an idea for what's cooking in terms of Human Interface. Then, of course, there is Apple's own software keyboard built into the Touch and iPhone. A lot of these input methods are far faster than handwriting, and cause less strain too. I'd personally rather type with my thumbs or fingers than place the vulcan death grip on a tiny sliver of a stylus. Pens are bad enough.. Get hand cramps.
<nod> One of the big obstacles that I see to bringing Maple to the iPhone etc is the huge, clunky, archaic command system. While absurdly powerful, it's also absurdly difficult to use. Maple is getting a lot better in recent releases, with the Clickable Math interface they are building, but I can't help but feel that Maple is about due for a complete overhaul from scratch. It is still, fundamentally, software rooted in 30 year old computing paradigms.
You must remember that Maple was originally a project to keep graduate students occupied (the math "guts" of Maple are still this way today with Maplesoft giving research grants to different universities' math and computing science departments). This is quite the contrast to Mathematica, for instance, which was (from the first) a commercial product.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Celemourn
I think that the Multitouch platform kinda gives Maplesoft an ideal opportunity for just such an overhaul. They have and extraordinary engine already, so I don't think it would be an insurmountable task to rebuild the UI from the ground up to specifically fit into GUI land.
If this is gives some hope to a possible future for multi-touch and Maple, I attended the Maple conference two summers ago and they demoed handwriting recognition as input (for math expressions) on a tablet PC. This is obviously orders of magnitude more difficult than handwriting recognition for natural language (just think of something as simple as subscripts and superscripts!), but they were working on it and it seemed quite impressive. This was about the time of the Maple 11 release and they have now just released Maple 12 -- I don't know whether this project has been successful (I'm still using Maple 9, so I'm not really "current" with the new Maple interface) but it might indicate that Maplesoft is looking at more than just keyboard and mouse.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Celemourn
Also, I think I agree that it could be done on the current screen size, but it would be much more efficient with a larger work area.
There's certainly no denying that -- I've never liked working with the TI-8X for that very reason.
All I want is a piece of kit that will let me store, read and mark-up my pdf books.
A4 size screen.
multi-touch.
High resolution.
Good storage.
Wifi.
Light.
I want an ipod for reading. Am I the only one?
Definitely not the only one. This is something I also want. I think I've kinda been treating it as a kind of automatic addition, and so I neglected to mention it. But it's definitely worth pointing out. The Touch can read PDFs, can't it? If so, then having a Touch/iPhone based device with a simple larger screen ought to work quite well. The markup detail isn't something that would necessarily get put in automatically though, I think. But would be a very nice addition. Markup would be especially useful (if efficient) for use in class, when you have your textbook on the tablet/slate/thingy in pdf format. (I still have reservations about the loss of a physical book though. See above.)
C
****EDIT****
BTW, congrats on your first post, and welcome to the forums.
Definitely not the only one. This is something I also want. I think I've kinda been treating it as a kind of automatic addition, and so I neglected to mention it. But it's definitely worth pointing out. The Touch can read PDFs, can't it? If so, then having a Touch/iPhone based device with a simple larger screen ought to work quite well. The markup detail isn't something that would necessarily get put in automatically though, I think. But would be a very nice addition. Markup would be especially useful (if efficient) for use in class, when you have your textbook on the tablet/slate/thingy in pdf format. (I still have reservations about the loss of a physical book though. See above.)
C
****EDIT****
BTW, congrats on your first post, and welcome to the forums.
****EDIT****
Doesn't this exist already though? There's many e-reader type pads from the Amazon Kindle to Sony and Phillips' efforts.
I suppose you do have an outside chance of a large Touch happening though as Jobs has already slagged off the Kindle, so it's a sure sign Apple are about to do something similar but done right.
Doesn't this exist already though? There's many e-reader type pads from the Amazon Kindle to Sony and Phillips' efforts.
I suppose you do have an outside chance of a large Touch happening though as Jobs has already slagged off the Kindle, so it's a sure sign Apple are about to do something similar but done right.
That's the key: Done right. That plus ipod and web browsing and whatever else people come up with through the dev program. Hmmm... <imagines an app to simulate a 19th century schoolhouse slate>
Comments
I've used everything from a Psion 3a to an IBM Thinkpad with a touch screen (today actually - an insurance guy came round and I had to sign on it) with various Palm, Z88s, Phones and whatever inbetween.
Nothing IME beats an A5 ringbound paper pad (or moleskin if you want to be fancy) and a Rotring altro stylograph pen for instant 'it just works' with no worries over dropping it, getting it wet, breaking it or running out of batteries. Anything else is technowank. You learn that as you get older and the drawer full of gadgets you aren't using no longer closes.
I completely agree w/ u... mostly... I think that some tech is very pathetic and over used/ estimated. A pad of paper of moleskin will be better than tech for a long time... but paper is or should be on its way out... and eventually tech will overcome it
Nothing IME beats an A5 ringbound paper pad (or moleskin if you want to be fancy) and a Rotring altro stylograph pen for instant 'it just works' with no worries over dropping it, getting it wet, breaking it or running out of batteries. Anything else is technowank. You learn that as you get older and the drawer full of gadgets you aren't using no longer closes.
That was exactly what I found out when I had my TabletPC. More specifically, it was more hassle to take notes on the tablet, even with the handwriting recognition (even if it HAD worked well), and SLOWER than taking them on paper. Also, I find that I like to be able to flip back a page or two at a time, to review stuff, and I just didn't get the same feel for exactly where the notes were with the tablet. With a notebook, I know by feel where to flip to to get what I want. I lost that kinesthetic cue with the tablet. It could be solved with a large surface though, I expect (22"-24" display size, as a slate).
C
Maple on the iPhone is a great idea. With the right menu structures, I don't think that the size of the iPhone needs to be a limitation to an effective implementation. It would also be fine if the iPhone version was build on top of the Classic Worksheet interface (essentially just a command-line version). In fact, I liked your idea so much that I just sent an email to Maplesoft inquiring about whether they are planning a Maple light release for the iPhone.
<nod> One of the big obstacles that I see to bringing Maple to the iPhone etc is the huge, clunky, archaic command system. While absurdly powerful, it's also absurdly difficult to use. Maple is getting a lot better in recent releases, with the Clickable Math interface they are building, but I can't help but feel that Maple is about due for a complete overhaul from scratch. It is still, fundamentally, software rooted in 30 year old computing paradigms. I think that the Multitouch platform kinda gives Maplesoft an ideal opportunity for just such an overhaul. They have and extraordinary engine already, so I don't think it would be an insurmountable task to rebuild the UI from the ground up to specifically fit into GUI land.
Also, I think I agree that it could be done on the current screen size, but it would be much more efficient with a larger work area.
C
As to input technology for a larger tablet like device I don't think that is impossible if Apple really wanted to attack the market with hand writing recognition. A larger tablet would likely revert to being OS/X based and have access to much more powerful processors than anything from the past.
I'm definitely thinking more along the lines of Star Trek: The Next Generation (remember the com pads?), than hand writing. A stylus is nice for precision drawing, but if we have Multitouch, assuming there is a suitable rapid-input method, it's not really good for anything else.
Earlier I mentioned some different input technologies floating around the web. Here are some links:
IBM SHARK, now ShapeWriter
MessagEase
AlphaTap!
DialKeys
These are worth a look to get an idea for what's cooking in terms of Human Interface. Then, of course, there is Apple's own software keyboard built into the Touch and iPhone. A lot of these input methods are far faster than handwriting, and cause less strain too. I'd personally rather type with my thumbs or fingers than place the vulcan death grip on a tiny sliver of a stylus. Pens are bad enough.. Get hand cramps.
C
<nod> One of the big obstacles that I see to bringing Maple to the iPhone etc is the huge, clunky, archaic command system. While absurdly powerful, it's also absurdly difficult to use. Maple is getting a lot better in recent releases, with the Clickable Math interface they are building, but I can't help but feel that Maple is about due for a complete overhaul from scratch. It is still, fundamentally, software rooted in 30 year old computing paradigms.
You must remember that Maple was originally a project to keep graduate students occupied (the math "guts" of Maple are still this way today with Maplesoft giving research grants to different universities' math and computing science departments). This is quite the contrast to Mathematica, for instance, which was (from the first) a commercial product.
I think that the Multitouch platform kinda gives Maplesoft an ideal opportunity for just such an overhaul. They have and extraordinary engine already, so I don't think it would be an insurmountable task to rebuild the UI from the ground up to specifically fit into GUI land.
If this is gives some hope to a possible future for multi-touch and Maple, I attended the Maple conference two summers ago and they demoed handwriting recognition as input (for math expressions) on a tablet PC. This is obviously orders of magnitude more difficult than handwriting recognition for natural language (just think of something as simple as subscripts and superscripts!), but they were working on it and it seemed quite impressive. This was about the time of the Maple 11 release and they have now just released Maple 12 -- I don't know whether this project has been successful (I'm still using Maple 9, so I'm not really "current" with the new Maple interface) but it might indicate that Maplesoft is looking at more than just keyboard and mouse.
Also, I think I agree that it could be done on the current screen size, but it would be much more efficient with a larger work area.
There's certainly no denying that -- I've never liked working with the TI-8X for that very reason.
A4 size screen.
multi-touch.
High resolution.
Good storage.
Wifi.
Light.
I want an ipod for reading. Am I the only one?
All I want is a piece of kit that will let me store, read and mark-up my pdf books.
A4 size screen.
multi-touch.
High resolution.
Good storage.
Wifi.
Light.
I want an ipod for reading. Am I the only one?
Definitely not the only one. This is something I also want. I think I've kinda been treating it as a kind of automatic addition, and so I neglected to mention it. But it's definitely worth pointing out. The Touch can read PDFs, can't it? If so, then having a Touch/iPhone based device with a simple larger screen ought to work quite well. The markup detail isn't something that would necessarily get put in automatically though, I think. But would be a very nice addition. Markup would be especially useful (if efficient) for use in class, when you have your textbook on the tablet/slate/thingy in pdf format. (I still have reservations about the loss of a physical book though. See above.)
C
****EDIT****
BTW, congrats on your first post, and welcome to the forums.
****EDIT****
Definitely not the only one. This is something I also want. I think I've kinda been treating it as a kind of automatic addition, and so I neglected to mention it. But it's definitely worth pointing out. The Touch can read PDFs, can't it? If so, then having a Touch/iPhone based device with a simple larger screen ought to work quite well. The markup detail isn't something that would necessarily get put in automatically though, I think. But would be a very nice addition. Markup would be especially useful (if efficient) for use in class, when you have your textbook on the tablet/slate/thingy in pdf format. (I still have reservations about the loss of a physical book though. See above.)
C
****EDIT****
BTW, congrats on your first post, and welcome to the forums.
****EDIT****
Doesn't this exist already though? There's many e-reader type pads from the Amazon Kindle to Sony and Phillips' efforts.
I suppose you do have an outside chance of a large Touch happening though as Jobs has already slagged off the Kindle, so it's a sure sign Apple are about to do something similar but done right.
Doesn't this exist already though? There's many e-reader type pads from the Amazon Kindle to Sony and Phillips' efforts.
I suppose you do have an outside chance of a large Touch happening though as Jobs has already slagged off the Kindle, so it's a sure sign Apple are about to do something similar but done right.
That's the key: Done right. That plus ipod and web browsing and whatever else people come up with through the dev program. Hmmm... <imagines an app to simulate a 19th century schoolhouse slate>
C