I was looking forward to no more than 25% free apps. I think it devalues the iPhone and creates 25 flavors of the same type of app. When people charge those that are successful have money to innovate and maintain their product, the free ones stagnate a lot of times.
One thing a lot of people are forgetting is how terribly *easy* it is to make apps for iPhone.
- If it only takes 15 minutes to make an app for the iPhone and you are instantly distributing it to millions of users, is it really worth 20 bucks?
- If there is no cardboard box to print, no CD to press, and no distribution network to manage, is it fair to charge even 10 bucks?
- If there is no software company with dozens of employees, office space, expense money and trips to conventions but rather just one person in front of a computer, is it really worth even 5 bucks?
The answer to all above is probably not (just in case you were wondering).
Another way to look at it, is that if a multi-hundred-million dollar movie made by thousands of workers employed in hundreds of companies over a multi-year development cycle is only worth 10 bucks in iTunes, what makes you think that yet another rip-off of Tetris or Doom is worth any more?
One thing a lot of people are forgetting is how terribly *easy* it is to make apps for iPhone.
- If it only takes 15 minutes to make an app for the iPhone and you are instantly distributing it to millions of users, is it really worth 20 bucks?
- If there is no cardboard box to print, no CD to press, and no distribution network to manage, is it fair to charge even 10 bucks?
- If there is no software company with dozens of employees, office space, expense money and trips to conventions but rather just one person in front of a computer, is it really worth even 5 bucks?
The answer to all above is probably not (just in case you were wondering).
Another way to look at it, is that if a multi-hundred-million dollar movie made by thousands of workers employed in hundreds of companies over a multi-year development cycle is only worth 10 bucks in iTunes, what makes you think that yet another rip-off of Tetris or Doom is worth any more?
food for thought.
Good point, however my fear is that there will be 22 free Tetris and 60 versions of Doom, etc, etc.
Next thing you know you are scrolling thru thousands of apps and basically have to beta test them to figure out which suck and which are nice.
A voting system would help, but I am not sure it will work that well due to the volume of testing that need to occur with the huge number of free apps.
Good point, however my fear is that there will be 22 free Tetris and 60 versions of Doom, etc, etc.
Next thing you know you are scrolling thru thousands of apps and basically have to beta test them to figure out which suck and which are nice.
A voting system would help, but I am not sure it will work that well due to the volume of testing that need to occur with the huge number of free apps.
Maybe I will stick to the for pay apps.
talking about doom does the iphone have a real file system so you can run user WADs?
Another way to look at it, is that if a multi-hundred-million dollar movie made by thousands of workers employed in hundreds of companies over a multi-year development cycle is only worth 10 bucks in iTunes, what makes you think that yet another rip-off of Tetris or Doom is worth any more?
The value of things doesn't reside in the effort to complete them, but the value of the finished product.
For instance, if a million people spent a year digging the worlds largest hole, and then immediately filling it back up, would you pay $30 billion for it? No, you would pay based on the utility of the product?in this case, an empty plot of land like any other.
Movies cost $10 because millions of people buy them.
Apps, while taking less effort to create, cost $20 because only thousands of people buy them.
I can see a fairly large number of shareware/commercial developers delivering free apps that tie in with their current Mac apps. I use the "pedias" (like Bookpedia) to keep track of my books, CDs & DVDs and I would be surprised if they don't deliver a free iPhone/touch version to link the Mac and iPhone/touch. Another example would be Bento - a simple database that would link well with the iPhone/touch.
Other companies, like banks, might also provide free iPhone/touch apps for their customers. Something I believe will be a smart move over the next year or two.
I'm also going to be interesting in what comes out in the free to $5 range as stand alone apps. I believe that there will be a lot of creativity out there and we're in for an exciting year.
Well, the guys selling the medical flash cards and such are going to be charging real money. If I were a doctor and I saw that CAT Scan app demoed, I think I would buy an iPhone and that app just for its own sake. And that is just one app and it showed a high level innovation and value add for the customer.
Well, the guys selling the medical flash cards and such are going to be charging real money. If I were a doctor and I saw that CAT Scan app demoed, I think I would buy an iPhone and that app just for its own sake. And that is just one app and it showed a high level innovation and value add for the customer.
*Ahem*
I am a doctor. One remote-viewing PACS application on a 3.5" screen will likely be inadequate for true radiology needs.
If this turns out well, Apple may consider using this to sell Mac software.
Good for you for charging something for your software. Your time and effort is a valuable resource.
Someone new to the development process is not likely to make something of value the first time around. The value of the work will likely go up with experience.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland
Yeah but 100% of games won't.
I'm sure there will be at least some free games.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB
I'm curious to see if any sort of rating system is implemented precisely for this reason. If I have a choice of 10 apps that do the roughly the same thing, I really don't want to have to beta them all.
I think it's likely. iTunes already supports user submitted ratings for music and videos.
I think it would be nice if Apple had offered a way to do demoware, try it for 30 days and if you want to use it for longer, pay for it.
I wonder how many people will continue development of software for the hacked iPhones given that their is an App store with a lot of free software.
I would say quite e few. There are apps that Apple isn't allowing for good reason, such as VoIP on the carrier's network and torrent apps. Plus, there are always those who always conform to non-conformity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by YodaMac
I have so many Web Apps bookmarked on my iPhone home-screens that I can't imagine being able to actually fit them all on an 8 or 16GB iPhone (along with my music, et al.)
Add them up? How many do you have. I only 2.83GB in my 3rd-party applications folder among 83 items. Though there are plenty of other files for the apps stored in /Library and ~/Library. Plus, I have removed unneeded language localizations and PPC code from them.
Still, that is only an average of 34MB per app. iPhone apps will be considerably smaller. Most will be well under the 10MB limit that allows them to be downloaded over the carrier's network. At 10MB each that is 124 apps per GB.
I was looking forward to no more than 25% free apps. I think it devalues the iPhone and creates 25 flavors of the same type of app. When people charge those that are successful have money to innovate and maintain their product, the free ones stagnate a lot of times.
Yeah that is called the free market in an emergent sector of the economy.
I don't see how that devalues the iPhone. That's like saying free gas devalues a Mercedes.
I am a doctor. One remote-viewing PACS application on a 3.5" screen will likely be inadequate for true radiology needs.
However, I will be buying one on July 11th!
I only have a lowly 5G iPod, and no experience with an iPod Touch, but can you send the video out to a larger more useful display and use the Touch or iPhone as the manipulating device?
The developer feedback on Apple's efforts to make it a top-notch development platform is encouraging! As for the apps that aren't just front-ends for existing web services, the pessimist in me wonders how many of those apps are free because they are going to be advertising supported?
Bullshit. Let me give you my feedback. 21,000 developers have not been approved yet and my company is one of them. We have thousands of customers and have developed for Macs for years now but that hasn't mattered at all.
We're very pissed off at Apple and so are many other developers. What is the purpose of limiting developers ? There is none, it is a stupid idea. They don't limit the number of developers for Mac. Most other companies would do anything to get developers to their platform.
Apple is not making a top notch developer platform, they have pissed off 21,000 would be iPhone developers who will be glad to develop for Google's Android instead. Apps will make or break the iPhone's future success and so far Apple is making dumb decisions like limiting developers and only selling via iTunes.
Bullshit. Let me give you my feedback. 21,000 developers have not been approved yet and my company is one of them. We have thousands of customers and have developed for Macs for years now but that hasn't mattered at all.
We're very pissed off at Apple and so are many other developers. What is the purpose of limiting developers ? There is none, it is a stupid idea. They don't limit the number of developers for Mac. Most other companies would do anything to get developers to their platform.
It's a beta test. They said they had 4000 beta testers. There is a point where they can't just take all comers, when it's not a finished product.
I only have a lowly 5G iPod, and no experience with an iPod Touch, but can you send the video out to a larger more useful display and use the Touch or iPhone as the manipulating device?
That would be up to the inventiveness of the developer community... as a matter of fact, you might even find yourself up to the challenge!
Bullshit. Let me give you my feedback. 21,000 developers have not been approved yet and my company is one of them. We have thousands of customers and have developed for Macs for years now but that hasn't mattered at all.
We're very pissed off at Apple and so are many other developers. What is the purpose of limiting developers ? There is none, it is a stupid idea. They don't limit the number of developers for Mac. Most other companies would do anything to get developers to their platform.
Apple is not making a top notch developer platform, they have pissed off 21,000 would be iPhone developers who will be glad to develop for Google's Android instead. Apps will make or break the iPhone's future success and so far Apple is making dumb decisions like limiting developers and only selling via iTunes.
Let's put a little perspective on things. There are reasons very valid reasons not to open up the flood gates. The most important of which to keep poorly developed apps that go against the SDK rules from showing up in droves. And yes, these are the mostly likely to come if there are no check and balances.
Moving on, between the SDK keynote release and announcement of the App Store program and the WWDC event where Jobs announced they have 4000 beta tests in the program is only about 93 days. If Apple approved, tested and verified apps and organizations on every signel one of those days that means that are approving about 43 companies' plans and their apps every day. That is a lot in itself.
You have the free SDK, which is already on its 7th beta in 3 months. Apple will be opening up the App Store to more developers. Just continue to make you app more refined until you're excepted.
Comments
I was looking forward to no more than 25% free apps. I think it devalues the iPhone and creates 25 flavors of the same type of app. When people charge those that are successful have money to innovate and maintain their product, the free ones stagnate a lot of times.
One thing a lot of people are forgetting is how terribly *easy* it is to make apps for iPhone.
- If it only takes 15 minutes to make an app for the iPhone and you are instantly distributing it to millions of users, is it really worth 20 bucks?
- If there is no cardboard box to print, no CD to press, and no distribution network to manage, is it fair to charge even 10 bucks?
- If there is no software company with dozens of employees, office space, expense money and trips to conventions but rather just one person in front of a computer, is it really worth even 5 bucks?
The answer to all above is probably not (just in case you were wondering).
Another way to look at it, is that if a multi-hundred-million dollar movie made by thousands of workers employed in hundreds of companies over a multi-year development cycle is only worth 10 bucks in iTunes, what makes you think that yet another rip-off of Tetris or Doom is worth any more?
food for thought.
One thing a lot of people are forgetting is how terribly *easy* it is to make apps for iPhone.
- If it only takes 15 minutes to make an app for the iPhone and you are instantly distributing it to millions of users, is it really worth 20 bucks?
- If there is no cardboard box to print, no CD to press, and no distribution network to manage, is it fair to charge even 10 bucks?
- If there is no software company with dozens of employees, office space, expense money and trips to conventions but rather just one person in front of a computer, is it really worth even 5 bucks?
The answer to all above is probably not (just in case you were wondering).
Another way to look at it, is that if a multi-hundred-million dollar movie made by thousands of workers employed in hundreds of companies over a multi-year development cycle is only worth 10 bucks in iTunes, what makes you think that yet another rip-off of Tetris or Doom is worth any more?
food for thought.
Good point, however my fear is that there will be 22 free Tetris and 60 versions of Doom, etc, etc.
Next thing you know you are scrolling thru thousands of apps and basically have to beta test them to figure out which suck and which are nice.
A voting system would help, but I am not sure it will work that well due to the volume of testing that need to occur with the huge number of free apps.
Maybe I will stick to the for pay apps.
Good point, however my fear is that there will be 22 free Tetris and 60 versions of Doom, etc, etc.
Next thing you know you are scrolling thru thousands of apps and basically have to beta test them to figure out which suck and which are nice.
A voting system would help, but I am not sure it will work that well due to the volume of testing that need to occur with the huge number of free apps.
Maybe I will stick to the for pay apps.
talking about doom does the iphone have a real file system so you can run user WADs?
also a FPS with no keyboard or joystick?
Another way to look at it, is that if a multi-hundred-million dollar movie made by thousands of workers employed in hundreds of companies over a multi-year development cycle is only worth 10 bucks in iTunes, what makes you think that yet another rip-off of Tetris or Doom is worth any more?
The value of things doesn't reside in the effort to complete them, but the value of the finished product.
For instance, if a million people spent a year digging the worlds largest hole, and then immediately filling it back up, would you pay $30 billion for it? No, you would pay based on the utility of the product?in this case, an empty plot of land like any other.
Movies cost $10 because millions of people buy them.
Apps, while taking less effort to create, cost $20 because only thousands of people buy them.
Other companies, like banks, might also provide free iPhone/touch apps for their customers. Something I believe will be a smart move over the next year or two.
I'm also going to be interesting in what comes out in the free to $5 range as stand alone apps. I believe that there will be a lot of creativity out there and we're in for an exciting year.
Well, the guys selling the medical flash cards and such are going to be charging real money. If I were a doctor and I saw that CAT Scan app demoed, I think I would buy an iPhone and that app just for its own sake. And that is just one app and it showed a high level innovation and value add for the customer.
Other medical apps are free/donationware:
http://www.osirix-viewer.com/MobileOsiriXPreview.mov
I'm just a patient, but have kept copies of my x-rays, CT Scans and PET/CT Scans on my MacBook since I found the site.
In other news, a survey of 3 random people off the street reveals 100% of people are female.
talking about doom does the iphone have a real file system so you can run user WADs?
also a FPS with no keyboard or joystick?
No idea
Well, the guys selling the medical flash cards and such are going to be charging real money. If I were a doctor and I saw that CAT Scan app demoed, I think I would buy an iPhone and that app just for its own sake. And that is just one app and it showed a high level innovation and value add for the customer.
*Ahem*
I am a doctor. One remote-viewing PACS application on a 3.5" screen will likely be inadequate for true radiology needs.
However, I will be buying one on July 11th!
If this turns out well, Apple may consider using this to sell Mac software.
Good for you for charging something for your software. Your time and effort is a valuable resource.
Someone new to the development process is not likely to make something of value the first time around. The value of the work will likely go up with experience.
Yeah but 100% of games won't.
I'm sure there will be at least some free games.
I'm curious to see if any sort of rating system is implemented precisely for this reason. If I have a choice of 10 apps that do the roughly the same thing, I really don't want to have to beta them all.
I think it's likely. iTunes already supports user submitted ratings for music and videos.
I think it would be nice if Apple had offered a way to do demoware, try it for 30 days and if you want to use it for longer, pay for it.
I wonder how many people will continue development of software for the hacked iPhones given that their is an App store with a lot of free software.
I would say quite e few. There are apps that Apple isn't allowing for good reason, such as VoIP on the carrier's network and torrent apps. Plus, there are always those who always conform to non-conformity.
I have so many Web Apps bookmarked on my iPhone home-screens that I can't imagine being able to actually fit them all on an 8 or 16GB iPhone (along with my music, et al.)
Add them up? How many do you have. I only 2.83GB in my 3rd-party applications folder among 83 items. Though there are plenty of other files for the apps stored in /Library and ~/Library. Plus, I have removed unneeded language localizations and PPC code from them.
Still, that is only an average of 34MB per app. iPhone apps will be considerably smaller. Most will be well under the 10MB limit that allows them to be downloaded over the carrier's network. At 10MB each that is 124 apps per GB.
I was looking forward to no more than 25% free apps. I think it devalues the iPhone and creates 25 flavors of the same type of app. When people charge those that are successful have money to innovate and maintain their product, the free ones stagnate a lot of times.
Yeah that is called the free market in an emergent sector of the economy.
I don't see how that devalues the iPhone. That's like saying free gas devalues a Mercedes.
*Ahem*
I am a doctor. One remote-viewing PACS application on a 3.5" screen will likely be inadequate for true radiology needs.
However, I will be buying one on July 11th!
I only have a lowly 5G iPod, and no experience with an iPod Touch, but can you send the video out to a larger more useful display and use the Touch or iPhone as the manipulating device?
The developer feedback on Apple's efforts to make it a top-notch development platform is encouraging! As for the apps that aren't just front-ends for existing web services, the pessimist in me wonders how many of those apps are free because they are going to be advertising supported?
Bullshit. Let me give you my feedback. 21,000 developers have not been approved yet and my company is one of them. We have thousands of customers and have developed for Macs for years now but that hasn't mattered at all.
We're very pissed off at Apple and so are many other developers. What is the purpose of limiting developers ? There is none, it is a stupid idea. They don't limit the number of developers for Mac. Most other companies would do anything to get developers to their platform.
Apple is not making a top notch developer platform, they have pissed off 21,000 would be iPhone developers who will be glad to develop for Google's Android instead. Apps will make or break the iPhone's future success and so far Apple is making dumb decisions like limiting developers and only selling via iTunes.
Bullshit. Let me give you my feedback. 21,000 developers have not been approved yet and my company is one of them. We have thousands of customers and have developed for Macs for years now but that hasn't mattered at all.
We're very pissed off at Apple and so are many other developers. What is the purpose of limiting developers ? There is none, it is a stupid idea. They don't limit the number of developers for Mac. Most other companies would do anything to get developers to their platform.
It's a beta test. They said they had 4000 beta testers. There is a point where they can't just take all comers, when it's not a finished product.
I only have a lowly 5G iPod, and no experience with an iPod Touch, but can you send the video out to a larger more useful display and use the Touch or iPhone as the manipulating device?
That would be up to the inventiveness of the developer community... as a matter of fact, you might even find yourself up to the challenge!
Bullshit. Let me give you my feedback. 21,000 developers have not been approved yet and my company is one of them. We have thousands of customers and have developed for Macs for years now but that hasn't mattered at all.
We're very pissed off at Apple and so are many other developers. What is the purpose of limiting developers ? There is none, it is a stupid idea. They don't limit the number of developers for Mac. Most other companies would do anything to get developers to their platform.
Apple is not making a top notch developer platform, they have pissed off 21,000 would be iPhone developers who will be glad to develop for Google's Android instead. Apps will make or break the iPhone's future success and so far Apple is making dumb decisions like limiting developers and only selling via iTunes.
Let's put a little perspective on things. There are reasons very valid reasons not to open up the flood gates. The most important of which to keep poorly developed apps that go against the SDK rules from showing up in droves. And yes, these are the mostly likely to come if there are no check and balances.
Moving on, between the SDK keynote release and announcement of the App Store program and the WWDC event where Jobs announced they have 4000 beta tests in the program is only about 93 days. If Apple approved, tested and verified apps and organizations on every signel one of those days that means that are approving about 43 companies' plans and their apps every day. That is a lot in itself.
You have the free SDK, which is already on its 7th beta in 3 months. Apple will be opening up the App Store to more developers. Just continue to make you app more refined until you're excepted.
What really matters is the cost of useful apps that people will actually obtain and use.
For instance, just about all dashboard widgets are free. But 99.9% of them are complete crap so who cares that they are free.