Steve indicated that OSX Serverupgrade to Jaguar would be a "paid" upgrade at the Xserve press conference... I can only assume that it goes for the client version too... especially with so many changes... it's more than a "point" release...
Yeah, I expect paid. Probalby $40-$50. Anything more & I think that there'll risk major public outrage in the Mac community (know I'd be angry). Personally though I think it's a mistake & something that's just going to sour the adoption of OS X. I still think Apples at the point where they should do everything they can to make OS X users happy & have as many people talking positively about OS X.
That and many of the features in Jaguar complete the OS to a polished state, really where we should've been a lot sooner, at the latest 10.1 ... IMHO anyway.
Would you guys think that 10.2 would come as the default OS on new machines almost immediately after its release; if not at least they would include the disc with a new order? I am wanting to get a new machine for school this fall, though I MAY wait until MWSF (which of course it would be the default) but by late August/early Sept. it should come with a new machine, right?
I would think 50 dollars would be a lot for a relatively minor upgrade. It's not like it's a whole new OS, just major revamps of some of the things they should have implemented long ago.
I would hope they'd release it as a 20-35 dollar upgrade. more reasonable..........
<strong>Would you guys think that 10.2 would come as the default OS on new machines almost immediately after its release; if not at least they would include the disc with a new order? I am wanting to get a new machine for school this fall, though I MAY wait until MWSF (which of course it would be the default) but by late August/early Sept. it should come with a new machine, right?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yeah, it's should come with new machines after it's released.
<strong>$50 would be a freakin' bargain, IMHO.</strong><hr></blockquote>Agreed.
Jaguar is much more than just a "relatively minor upgrade" over Puma.
Ever wonder why you couldn't download the 10.1 upgrade? It's because the download would be several hundred megabytes. Why? Because nearly *every* component in the system was upgraded. The situation is the same for Jaguar.
I'm with Kickaha on this one. Jaguar is a much more extensive upgrade than 9.0 was. Hell, I can't even remember what "major" changes 9.0 brought (I think Sherlock, voice password, and keychain were the only "big" additions) and it was a full-price upgrade.
Not only does Jaguar include more system-wide optimizations, it also includes a number of brand new technologies like Quartz Extreme.
People can debate endlessly on whether or not Jaguar (or even Puma) constitutes a major upgrade and if these features should have been in the first 10.0, but where do you draw the line? Would you people have rather Apple kept Mac OS X in Public Beta mode for 2 years and then make a "final" release? Gee, that's a great way to get developer support. For that matter, what would you say about the features in the next upgrade? Would you say that Apple should have stayed in beta another six months until they were included too?
If you think it's too expensive, then don't buy it. No one's forcing you to.
'major revamp' doesn't constitute enough to charge 1/2 for an upgrade in your eyes? Sheesh.</strong><hr></blockquote>
No one ever said I wouldn't make the purchase.
My point is being $50, for an upgrade, which in actuality costs half of the original OS's price isn't worth it/fair.
They released the OS obviously prematurely. IMO, because of heat from XP/MS. Thus, why they are even having a "major revamp". This revamp, if time permitted, should've been done when released. They couldn't perfected it over time, thus, if they did so, we wouldn't be talking about "major revamps" right now, and we'd be talking about minor upgrades......
I guess it's all about one's perspective & perception of the update, and if it's justified by the price point they'll set.
I'm not saying it's worth "free", I would say it's worth SOME money, but not HALF of the total cost of the OS.
20-35 I would gladly pay it. 50, I'd pay for it, but not happily [happy that i have it, not happy @ my wallet dent]...... anything higher, and.. well......... i'll decide when that happens........
I'd just like to point out that in recent years Apple hasnever offered an upgrade price for operating systems. You had to pay full price to go from 8 to 8.5, 85. to 9, and 9 to 10. 10 to 10.1 was a different story because Apple released 10.0 about 6 months ahead of when they wanted to to spur developer support, which is why 10 wasn't the default OS on new macs until just recently.
Puma to Jaguar is going to be a "major upgrade", and as much as i would like an upgrade price, I dont expect one.
Think of it this way though. OS X costs 200$ CDN, and Windows XP Home Upgrade costs 150$ CDN, while XP Home Full cost 300$ CDN. OSX isnt limited in a lot of the ways taht XP Home is either. In other words, it could be a lot worse.
<strong>They released the OS obviously prematurely. IMO, because of heat from XP/MS. Thus, why they are even having a "major revamp".</strong><hr></blockquote>Your views are misguided. Yes, Microsoft had some influence on the release date, but not the way you think.
Seriously, though, most big software companies refused to begin major work on their software until Mac OS X was shipping GM and had a significant installed user base. Apple was stuck in a "chicken and the egg" scenario and chose to take the first step. Apple released a working, although clearly not perfect, version as GM and then bundled it on all Macs as the secondary OS (with OS9 as the default).
That gave the developers enough of a push to get to work, but look at how long it still took them:
* Office? Not ready until seven months after 10.0 went GM.
* Photoshop? Not ready until spring 2002.
* Quark? Still not finished!
If Apple had not taken this route and had waited until everything was finished, we *still* wouldn't have a working OS by the end of 2002! Go back and read my last most where I mention feature addition and the possibility of a 2-plus year Public Beta cycle.
Let me ask you this: was Windows 95 as good as it should have been? In your opinion, were Windows 98 and Windows ME just "minor" updates? Tell me, just how much did those Windows upgrades cost?
Win98/Win2000(xp) were major upgrades to Win95...... hence the pricing......... which is fine.
Was the X.1 upgrade [free, it u went to the apple store, or pay shipping via apple] worth it [for its' price]? Of course.
Should the same be done for jaguar? Wishfully, yes. Realistically, no? Is paying $50 worth it for a X.1 to jaguar update? That's up to the user. I'm not debating if it's right for everyone. IMO, i just think apple should release this update @ a very fair/low price to justify for the lack of all of these features in the first place.
There's no such thing as fair in our world. It how much they expect to give them a profit vs how much we expect to pay.
Adoption is pretty much on track now, so giving it to people for free for adoption isn't that important anymore.
If you're using the line, "It was what they should of done" then you probably have a legacy mac anyway, in which case they figure you'll buy a new mac and get it for free. I.E.-they don't care.
It's hard to do any hard math, but they probably figured it out pretty well. People do get paid a lot to calcuate these things.
Given the precentages, and the new series of hardware coming. It's like,
You get 10.2 through paying, you get 10.2 through hardware, or it's not really important, which you're not important anyway."
Apple can rack up a lot more point on incentives to buy new hardware,so chargng actually works to their advantage. [Like buy one get one free sales]
It may sound cruel and unfair, but capitalist have shown it's how you get results. so Therotically, this will work to them trying even harder on the next release.
I hope that the upgrade price to Jaguar isn't too much, I think $30-$50 is reasonable. I would think that Apple would want as many people as possible to upgrade to Jaguar, so keeping the price under $50 would allow for this. It appears that they've put in a considerable amount of work for the additions/improvements present in Jaguar, so I won't be upset as long as they don't do something like $99 to upgrade.
Now that I'm thinking about it, I'll probably hold off on an iBook purchase until Jaguar comes out, so that I don't have to pay for an upgrade. Kind of off topic, but what are the odds that the iPod prices will just drop to $299/$399 flat without any mail-in rebates at Macworld?
Comments
That and many of the features in Jaguar complete the OS to a polished state, really where we should've been a lot sooner, at the latest 10.1 ... IMHO anyway.
I would hope they'd release it as a 20-35 dollar upgrade. more reasonable..........
8.0 was a 'minor' upgrade over 7.x given the above criteria then, as was 9.0 over 8.x...
If you think it's too expensive, then don't buy it. No one's forcing you to.
'major revamp' doesn't constitute enough to charge 1/2 for an upgrade in your eyes? Sheesh.
<strong>Would you guys think that 10.2 would come as the default OS on new machines almost immediately after its release; if not at least they would include the disc with a new order? I am wanting to get a new machine for school this fall, though I MAY wait until MWSF (which of course it would be the default) but by late August/early Sept. it should come with a new machine, right?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yeah, it's should come with new machines after it's released.
<strong>$50 would be a freakin' bargain, IMHO.</strong><hr></blockquote>Agreed.
Jaguar is much more than just a "relatively minor upgrade" over Puma.
Ever wonder why you couldn't download the 10.1 upgrade? It's because the download would be several hundred megabytes. Why? Because nearly *every* component in the system was upgraded. The situation is the same for Jaguar.
I'm with Kickaha on this one. Jaguar is a much more extensive upgrade than 9.0 was. Hell, I can't even remember what "major" changes 9.0 brought (I think Sherlock, voice password, and keychain were the only "big" additions) and it was a full-price upgrade.
Not only does Jaguar include more system-wide optimizations, it also includes a number of brand new technologies like Quartz Extreme.
People can debate endlessly on whether or not Jaguar (or even Puma) constitutes a major upgrade and if these features should have been in the first 10.0, but where do you draw the line? Would you people have rather Apple kept Mac OS X in Public Beta mode for 2 years and then make a "final" release? Gee, that's a great way to get developer support.
Get real.
<strong>$50 would be a freakin' bargain, IMHO.
If you think it's too expensive, then don't buy it. No one's forcing you to.
'major revamp' doesn't constitute enough to charge 1/2 for an upgrade in your eyes? Sheesh.</strong><hr></blockquote>
No one ever said I wouldn't make the purchase.
My point is being $50, for an upgrade, which in actuality costs half of the original OS's price isn't worth it/fair.
They released the OS obviously prematurely. IMO, because of heat from XP/MS. Thus, why they are even having a "major revamp". This revamp, if time permitted, should've been done when released. They couldn't perfected it over time, thus, if they did so, we wouldn't be talking about "major revamps" right now, and we'd be talking about minor upgrades......
I guess it's all about one's perspective & perception of the update, and if it's justified by the price point they'll set.
I'm not saying it's worth "free", I would say it's worth SOME money, but not HALF of the total cost of the OS.
20-35 I would gladly pay it. 50, I'd pay for it, but not happily [happy that i have it, not happy @ my wallet dent]...... anything higher, and.. well......... i'll decide when that happens........
[ 06-06-2002: Message edited by: Badtz ]</p>
Puma to Jaguar is going to be a "major upgrade", and as much as i would like an upgrade price, I dont expect one.
Think of it this way though. OS X costs 200$ CDN, and Windows XP Home Upgrade costs 150$ CDN, while XP Home Full cost 300$ CDN. OSX isnt limited in a lot of the ways taht XP Home is either. In other words, it could be a lot worse.
--PB
<strong>They released the OS obviously prematurely. IMO, because of heat from XP/MS. Thus, why they are even having a "major revamp".</strong><hr></blockquote>Your views are misguided. Yes, Microsoft had some influence on the release date, but not the way you think.
<a href="http://homepage.mac.com/jcarusone/iMovieTheater2.html"; target="_blank">I've got four words for you: developers, developers, developers, developers!</a>
Seriously, though, most big software companies refused to begin major work on their software until Mac OS X was shipping GM and had a significant installed user base. Apple was stuck in a "chicken and the egg" scenario and chose to take the first step. Apple released a working, although clearly not perfect, version as GM and then bundled it on all Macs as the secondary OS (with OS9 as the default).
That gave the developers enough of a push to get to work, but look at how long it still took them:
* Office? Not ready until seven months after 10.0 went GM.
* Photoshop? Not ready until spring 2002.
* Quark? Still not finished!
If Apple had not taken this route and had waited until everything was finished, we *still* wouldn't have a working OS by the end of 2002! Go back and read my last most where I mention feature addition and the possibility of a 2-plus year Public Beta cycle.
Let me ask you this: was Windows 95 as good as it should have been? In your opinion, were Windows 98 and Windows ME just "minor" updates? Tell me, just how much did those Windows upgrades cost?
[ 06-06-2002: Message edited by: starfleetX ]</p>
[ 06-06-2002: Message edited by: starfleetX ]</p>
Was the X.1 upgrade [free, it u went to the apple store, or pay shipping via apple] worth it [for its' price]? Of course.
Should the same be done for jaguar? Wishfully, yes. Realistically, no? Is paying $50 worth it for a X.1 to jaguar update? That's up to the user. I'm not debating if it's right for everyone. IMO, i just think apple should release this update @ a very fair/low price to justify for the lack of all of these features in the first place.
Win95 to Win98 = 3 year gap.......
X to X.1 to Jaguar = 1.5-2 years?
Adoption is pretty much on track now, so giving it to people for free for adoption isn't that important anymore.
If you're using the line, "It was what they should of done" then you probably have a legacy mac anyway, in which case they figure you'll buy a new mac and get it for free. I.E.-they don't care.
It's hard to do any hard math, but they probably figured it out pretty well. People do get paid a lot to calcuate these things.
Given the precentages, and the new series of hardware coming. It's like,
You get 10.2 through paying, you get 10.2 through hardware, or it's not really important, which you're not important anyway."
Apple can rack up a lot more point on incentives to buy new hardware,so chargng actually works to their advantage. [Like buy one get one free sales]
It may sound cruel and unfair, but capitalist have shown it's how you get results. so Therotically, this will work to them trying even harder on the next release.
~Kuku
Now that I'm thinking about it, I'll probably hold off on an iBook purchase until Jaguar comes out, so that I don't have to pay for an upgrade. Kind of off topic, but what are the odds that the iPod prices will just drop to $299/$399 flat without any mail-in rebates at Macworld?
10.x.x updates are minor small updates, no radical and new features, while a 10.x update will have more radical improvements and add new features.
This only makes sense, and I support Apple with this decision