Anyone that says this device is over priced at $600 simply doesn't know what they are talking about. $600 is an excellent price for such a phone, and is priced in my cases under it's inferior competitors, like the Blackberry and the Nokia N95 for example.
Because the iPhone uses GSM/GPRS/EDGE and the "iPhone 3G" will add UMTS/HSDPA to that list, but Verizon and Sprint both use CDMA2000/EVDO while T-Mobile uses non-standard frequencies for their GSM/EDGE network. No clue why they didn't offer it to multiple carriers in the UK, France, and Germany.
According to AT&T, the deal has been renegotiated and that's no longer true.
Sebastian
first, tmobile USA uses frequencies that the iPhone 2G can use! 2G=EDGE/GPRS
Tmobile USA uses 3G frequencies that need quad-band 3G chips, but the quad-band 2G chip in the "old" iPhone 2G can be used with tmobile USA. Only the iPhone 3G can' t run on tmobiles' 3G network...
Second, att still buys the iPhone from apple! The only thing att doesn't do with the iphone 3G is to share talk-time revenue!!!
Anyone that says this device is over priced at $600 simply doesn't know what they are talking about. $600 is an excellent price for such a phone, and is priced in my cases under it's inferior competitors, like the Blackberry and the Nokia N95 for example.
Yes, comparatively speaking, it is an excellent price.
Then again, no phone should really cost $600, smartphone or otherwise.
That's a ridiculous thing to say. It's like saying "No car should cost over $1000". It simply has no basis in fact. If you think about the research and the parts that go into the "phone" (it's really a very small computer), $600 is completely reasonable. Like I say, it's a small computer. What type of laptop can you buy for $600? Do you complain about that too?
In the short term they would, but Apple appears to be looking at things differently than most people and companies. There are plenty of reasons why Apple is pairing with carriers: some technical, some psychological. I'll post them later if someone else doesn't get to it first.
PS: By all, I assume you mean all GSM carriers with certain 3G radios, because if you mean all carriers then Apple has to create different versions for many different carriers. Just in the US they would need at least 3 models.
Insane for what? A basic cell phone, sure. A smartphone, no.
My friend, I agree with you on about 99% of what you write, but the iPhone is not a smartphone. It is a media phone, or iPod with phone, or whatever, but smart is not what it is.
My friend, I agree with you on about 99% of what you write, but the iPhone is not a smartphone. It is a media phone, or iPod with phone, or whatever, but smart is not what it is.
How do you define "smartphone"? Since it's a marketing term you can't say it isn't a smartphone without telling me how you would define it.
I define it as a phone that has focused features that are well above the normal cellphone's features. Not having cut and paste doesn't make it any less a smartphone, but it does it make it less of a business smartphone, IMO.
So if there is a way to make the phone work with pay as you go (US) and its $20 a month data plan, the higher price per unit still works out cheaper. I pay $100 per year for a pay as you go account.
Pay as you go:
$600 iPhone
$480 Montly data 24 mos
$200 24 mos pay as you go
====
$1280
Normal:
$299 iPhone
$1680 Data + voice
====
$1979
These prices will depend on whether or not that $20.00 pay as you go fee will include some data amount? I would love to get an iPhone with pay as you go but if the PSYG does not include internet access then the iphone would be useless to me and for most of the apps. lets hope there will be a usefull legal PAYG option, that would be great.
How do you define "smartphone"? Since it's a marketing term you can't say it isn't a smartphone without telling me how you would define it.
I define it as a phone that has focused features are well above the normal cellphone's features. Not having cut and paste doesn't make it any less a smartphone, but it does it make it less of a business smartphone, IMO.
Here is a fast an loose definition of a smartphone:
Some missing ingredients from the iPhone in my opinion that would make it a smartphone:
1. the ability to send files
2. sending and receiving vcards
3. general OBEX support
4. BT support for tethering or simply data transfer.
Naturally there are other things, but I do like your focused device appraisal. I think this best defines the iPhone. Now that I think of it, maybe this is intentionally done by Apple. Leave it ambiguous so that the iPhone is all things to all people.
Hmmmmm, another price gouge by Apple- not really surprising anymore. I am starting to think they may be worse than Msoft after all these ridiculous price increases. Jobs has really gone downhill.
Hmmmm, an MS TROLL????? Then, I am not taking the bait. Maybe the phone should be priced at the same as the Motorola Q $99 (plus a much more expensive plan :-) )
PS 399 to 199 is a price decrease. ATT is charging more for the plan.
My friend, I agree with you on about 99% of what you write, but the iPhone is not a smartphone. It is a media phone, or iPod with phone, or whatever, but smart is not what it is.
Maybe not, but its a lot smarter than all the other phones out there. And since its fully software programable, just wait for all the 3rd party software to come out. WOOT
My friend, I agree with you on about 99% of what you write, but the iPhone is not a smartphone. It is a media phone, or iPod with phone, or whatever, but smart is not what it is.
i disagree! the iphone is a smartphone, and it will get smarter with every OS update... the 1st gen. iphone will not be far behind the iphone #G, the only real difference is the 3G-module and the GPS-module. and the 2h additional talk time, 8h iphone 2G, compared to the 10h talk time of the new iphone 3G...
the keyboard and screen are very smart, in fact the smartest in the market! apple has always tried to make it as easy as possible... i think for a 1st gen. OS the iphone osX 1.1.4 is awesome...
i owned a treo650 before, and the only thing i'm really missing is my tomtom navigation software!!! i think apple has to allow tomtom to publish their navigator software for the iphone, new and old, and include a working bluetooth stack which lets bluetooth GPS receivers connect and that way allow real-time GPS-navigation... added by the WPS/GSM-triangulation capability the iphone 2G/3G has a clear advantage over the other smartphones that don't have that... my old treo didn't have wifi which means no WPS-triangulation for those "smart"phones....
A-GPS, assisted by WPS, is awesome! it will allow for a much more precise and faster first fix for the A-GPS module!!!
Hmmmm, an MS TROLL????? Then, I am not taking the bait. Maybe the phone should be priced at the same as the Motorola Q $99 (plus a much more expensive plan :-) )
PS 399 to 199 is a price decrease. ATT is charging more for the plan.
en
I think is is a bit unfair to call anyone who mentions something good about MS and bad about Apple a troll. In this case, it would simply make the original poster a bit uninformed but surly not a troll.
Microsoft, Microsoft, Microsoft, Microsoft, Microsoft, Microsoft, Microsoft, Microsoft, Microsoft, Microsoft, Microsoft. Does that make me a troll or just someone that says Microsoft? This attitude that Apple can do no wrong and that Steve Jobs is your best friend is pure bunk. Apple screws up like the rest. They have a few out of court settlements to attest to their misdeeds, and Steve Jobs is only loyal to the current Mrs. Jobs, his kids, and his board (not necessarily in that order).
I think is is a bit unfair to call anyone who mentions something good about MS and bad about Apple a troll. In this case, it would simply make the original poster a bit uninformed but surly not a troll.
Microsoft, Microsoft, Microsoft, Microsoft, Microsoft, Microsoft, Microsoft, Microsoft, Microsoft, Microsoft, Microsoft. Does that make me a troll or just someone that says Microsoft? This attitude that Apple can do no wrong and that Steve Jobs is your best friend is pure bunk. Apple screws up like the rest. They have a few out of court settlements to attest to their misdeeds, and Steve Jobs is only loyal to the current Mrs. Jobs, his kids, and his board (not necessarily in that order).
i agree with you!
for my part i'm so disappointed with M$ because they had such a huge potential to develop good stuff, and they didn't! they chose to sit on their buds and milk their consumer and business clients... but it looks like finally there's competition on the horizon... google and apple hopefully rival M$ successfully....
Maybe not, but its a lot smarter than all the other phones out there. And since its fully software programable, just wait for all the 3rd party software to come out. WOOT
Just a thought
Really?
Can you send files with an iPhone? Exchange biz cards? Does it have A2DP. How about real BT support? Can it tether to a computer? Survey says: No. But what it does, it does extremely well. I think solipism's definition of an iPhone is spot on. While not necessarily being smart, it ain't quite dumb either.
i disagree! the iphone is a smartphone, and it will get smarter with every OS update... the 1st gen. iphone will not be far behind the iphone #G, the only real difference is the 3G-module and the GPS-module. and the 2h additional talk time, 8h iphone 2G, compared to the 10h talk time of the new iphone 3G...
the keyboard and screen are very smart, in fact the smartest in the market! apple has always tried to make it as easy as possible... i think for a 1st gen. OS the iphone osX 1.1.4 is awesome...
i owned a treo650 before, and the only thing i'm really missing is my tomtom navigation software!!! i think apple has to allow tomtom to publish their navigator software for the iphone, new and old, and include a working bluetooth stack which lets bluetooth GPS receivers connect and that way allow real-time GPS-navigation... added by the WPS/GSM-triangulation capability the iphone 2G/3G has a clear advantage over the other smartphones that don't have that... my old treo didn't have wifi which means no WPS-triangulation for those "smart"phones....
A-GPS, assisted by WPS, is awesome! it will allow for a much more precise and faster first fix for the A-GPS module!!!
Well, coming from a background where I have used nothing but smartphones, from Ericsson, then Sony Ericsson, Nokia ( I had the original Communicator, #102 off the production line), and I can say in terms of smartphone features, the iPhone is lacking. A keyboard is great but what if you do not have the basics like OBEX support? How about sending files or receiving them? These are smartphone features. The iPhone is a specially targeted device with some pretty cool smoke and mirrors and outstanding software (this is the winner here). Other phones have GPS. I will put my N82 up against an iPhone 3G when it comes out (I plan to get one anyway) and I am quite sure the N82 will stack up. For me, for me, for me, the iPhone is a great media device that has new and improved telephone functions. Many to most of the things it brings, I have had before, but for me the 3G was a critical component that was missing. This is a debate that can go round and round and in fact it should. Apple should maybe take a peek and see how to improve for the next version.
Can you send files with an iPhone? Exchange biz cards? Does it have A2DP. How about real BT support? Can it tether to a computer? Survey says: No. But what it does, it does extremely well. I think solipism's definition of an iPhone is spot on. While not necessarily being smart, it ain't quite dumb either.
Just a thought as well.
my businnes info is my email signature. and i send photos with my iphone... next iphone osX releases will for sure include the ability to edit and send office/iwork documents... just a question of time... for the old and new iphone... since both have the same prozessor there's no need to fear that apple will not upgrade the "old" iphone with the new features....
I guess myself, I don't know if I'm happy that the contract price went down, or the prepaid price went up? I think one of the reason Jobs looks under the weather is that he can't figure out how to please everyone. Which no human can.
By the way, many people around the world face much bigger problems, no one is putting a gun to your head and forcing you to buy an iPhone. If all Apple products turned into salt tomorrow, the world would (probably) go on. For better or worse, that's up to the people.
I guess myself, I don't know if I'm happy that the contract price went down, or the prepaid price went up? I think one of the reason Jobs looks under the weather is that he can't figure out how to please everyone. Which no human can.
By the way, many people around the world face much bigger problems, no one is putting a gun to your head and forcing you to buy an iPhone. If all Apple products turned into salt tomorrow, the world would (probably) go on. For better or worse, that's up to the people.
very true... even though i would miss my macbook pro and iphone very much... but life would go on...
Comments
Because the iPhone uses GSM/GPRS/EDGE and the "iPhone 3G" will add UMTS/HSDPA to that list, but Verizon and Sprint both use CDMA2000/EVDO while T-Mobile uses non-standard frequencies for their GSM/EDGE network. No clue why they didn't offer it to multiple carriers in the UK, France, and Germany.
According to AT&T, the deal has been renegotiated and that's no longer true.
Sebastian
first, tmobile USA uses frequencies that the iPhone 2G can use! 2G=EDGE/GPRS
Tmobile USA uses 3G frequencies that need quad-band 3G chips, but the quad-band 2G chip in the "old" iPhone 2G can be used with tmobile USA. Only the iPhone 3G can' t run on tmobiles' 3G network...
Second, att still buys the iPhone from apple! The only thing att doesn't do with the iphone 3G is to share talk-time revenue!!!
Anyone that says this device is over priced at $600 simply doesn't know what they are talking about. $600 is an excellent price for such a phone, and is priced in my cases under it's inferior competitors, like the Blackberry and the Nokia N95 for example.
Yes, comparatively speaking, it is an excellent price.
Then again, no phone should really cost $600, smartphone or otherwise.
In the short term they would, but Apple appears to be looking at things differently than most people and companies. There are plenty of reasons why Apple is pairing with carriers: some technical, some psychological. I'll post them later if someone else doesn't get to it first.
PS: By all, I assume you mean all GSM carriers with certain 3G radios, because if you mean all carriers then Apple has to create different versions for many different carriers. Just in the US they would need at least 3 models.
Insane for what? A basic cell phone, sure. A smartphone, no.
My friend, I agree with you on about 99% of what you write, but the iPhone is not a smartphone. It is a media phone, or iPod with phone, or whatever, but smart is not what it is.
Let's see. You can a Nokia N95 and it will cost you between $440 and $785.
There is an interesting comparison of the iPhone vs N95 8 GB. http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/featu...ia_N95_8GB.php
In particular, in this example, the total costs for the N95 + service plan ran about the same "or more" than for the iPhone.
Try getting a 'comparable' Blackberry for less than $600 without a plan
Welcome to the world of unsubsidized phones. In Europe and the rest of the world, they pay real world prices.
I have a Nokia N82 that cost 440?. Do the math.
By the way, Abster2core, my post was not directed at you but the guy you quoted. I was too lazy to go back. Sorry.
My friend, I agree with you on about 99% of what you write, but the iPhone is not a smartphone. It is a media phone, or iPod with phone, or whatever, but smart is not what it is.
How do you define "smartphone"? Since it's a marketing term you can't say it isn't a smartphone without telling me how you would define it.
I define it as a phone that has focused features that are well above the normal cellphone's features. Not having cut and paste doesn't make it any less a smartphone, but it does it make it less of a business smartphone, IMO.
So if there is a way to make the phone work with pay as you go (US) and its $20 a month data plan, the higher price per unit still works out cheaper. I pay $100 per year for a pay as you go account.
Pay as you go:
$600 iPhone
$480 Montly data 24 mos
$200 24 mos pay as you go
====
$1280
Normal:
$299 iPhone
$1680 Data + voice
====
$1979
These prices will depend on whether or not that $20.00 pay as you go fee will include some data amount? I would love to get an iPhone with pay as you go but if the PSYG does not include internet access then the iphone would be useless to me and for most of the apps. lets hope there will be a usefull legal PAYG option, that would be great.
How do you define "smartphone"? Since it's a marketing term you can't say it isn't a smartphone without telling me how you would define it.
I define it as a phone that has focused features are well above the normal cellphone's features. Not having cut and paste doesn't make it any less a smartphone, but it does it make it less of a business smartphone, IMO.
Here is a fast an loose definition of a smartphone:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smartphone
For me a smartphone is one that has similar features found here:
http://www.nokia.co.uk/A4688582
and here: http://www.nokia.co.uk/A4368371
finally here:
http://www.nokia.co.uk/A4353372
Some missing ingredients from the iPhone in my opinion that would make it a smartphone:
1. the ability to send files
2. sending and receiving vcards
3. general OBEX support
4. BT support for tethering or simply data transfer.
Naturally there are other things, but I do like your focused device appraisal. I think this best defines the iPhone. Now that I think of it, maybe this is intentionally done by Apple. Leave it ambiguous so that the iPhone is all things to all people.
Hmmmmm, another price gouge by Apple- not really surprising anymore. I am starting to think they may be worse than Msoft after all these ridiculous price increases. Jobs has really gone downhill.
Hmmmm, an MS TROLL????? Then, I am not taking the bait. Maybe the phone should be priced at the same as the Motorola Q $99 (plus a much more expensive plan :-) )
PS 399 to 199 is a price decrease. ATT is charging more for the plan.
en
My friend, I agree with you on about 99% of what you write, but the iPhone is not a smartphone. It is a media phone, or iPod with phone, or whatever, but smart is not what it is.
Maybe not, but its a lot smarter than all the other phones out there. And since its fully software programable, just wait for all the 3rd party software to come out. WOOT
Just a thought
My friend, I agree with you on about 99% of what you write, but the iPhone is not a smartphone. It is a media phone, or iPod with phone, or whatever, but smart is not what it is.
i disagree! the iphone is a smartphone, and it will get smarter with every OS update... the 1st gen. iphone will not be far behind the iphone #G, the only real difference is the 3G-module and the GPS-module. and the 2h additional talk time, 8h iphone 2G, compared to the 10h talk time of the new iphone 3G...
the keyboard and screen are very smart, in fact the smartest in the market! apple has always tried to make it as easy as possible... i think for a 1st gen. OS the iphone osX 1.1.4 is awesome...
i owned a treo650 before, and the only thing i'm really missing is my tomtom navigation software!!! i think apple has to allow tomtom to publish their navigator software for the iphone, new and old, and include a working bluetooth stack which lets bluetooth GPS receivers connect and that way allow real-time GPS-navigation... added by the WPS/GSM-triangulation capability the iphone 2G/3G has a clear advantage over the other smartphones that don't have that... my old treo didn't have wifi which means no WPS-triangulation for those "smart"phones....
A-GPS, assisted by WPS, is awesome! it will allow for a much more precise and faster first fix for the A-GPS module!!!
Hmmmm, an MS TROLL????? Then, I am not taking the bait. Maybe the phone should be priced at the same as the Motorola Q $99 (plus a much more expensive plan :-) )
PS 399 to 199 is a price decrease. ATT is charging more for the plan.
en
I think is is a bit unfair to call anyone who mentions something good about MS and bad about Apple a troll. In this case, it would simply make the original poster a bit uninformed but surly not a troll.
Microsoft, Microsoft, Microsoft, Microsoft, Microsoft, Microsoft, Microsoft, Microsoft, Microsoft, Microsoft, Microsoft. Does that make me a troll or just someone that says Microsoft? This attitude that Apple can do no wrong and that Steve Jobs is your best friend is pure bunk. Apple screws up like the rest. They have a few out of court settlements to attest to their misdeeds, and Steve Jobs is only loyal to the current Mrs. Jobs, his kids, and his board (not necessarily in that order).
I think is is a bit unfair to call anyone who mentions something good about MS and bad about Apple a troll. In this case, it would simply make the original poster a bit uninformed but surly not a troll.
Microsoft, Microsoft, Microsoft, Microsoft, Microsoft, Microsoft, Microsoft, Microsoft, Microsoft, Microsoft, Microsoft. Does that make me a troll or just someone that says Microsoft? This attitude that Apple can do no wrong and that Steve Jobs is your best friend is pure bunk. Apple screws up like the rest. They have a few out of court settlements to attest to their misdeeds, and Steve Jobs is only loyal to the current Mrs. Jobs, his kids, and his board (not necessarily in that order).
i agree with you!
for my part i'm so disappointed with M$ because they had such a huge potential to develop good stuff, and they didn't! they chose to sit on their buds and milk their consumer and business clients... but it looks like finally there's competition on the horizon... google and apple hopefully rival M$ successfully....
Maybe not, but its a lot smarter than all the other phones out there. And since its fully software programable, just wait for all the 3rd party software to come out. WOOT
Just a thought
Really?
Can you send files with an iPhone? Exchange biz cards? Does it have A2DP. How about real BT support? Can it tether to a computer? Survey says: No. But what it does, it does extremely well. I think solipism's definition of an iPhone is spot on. While not necessarily being smart, it ain't quite dumb either.
Just a thought as well.
i disagree! the iphone is a smartphone, and it will get smarter with every OS update... the 1st gen. iphone will not be far behind the iphone #G, the only real difference is the 3G-module and the GPS-module. and the 2h additional talk time, 8h iphone 2G, compared to the 10h talk time of the new iphone 3G...
the keyboard and screen are very smart, in fact the smartest in the market! apple has always tried to make it as easy as possible... i think for a 1st gen. OS the iphone osX 1.1.4 is awesome...
i owned a treo650 before, and the only thing i'm really missing is my tomtom navigation software!!! i think apple has to allow tomtom to publish their navigator software for the iphone, new and old, and include a working bluetooth stack which lets bluetooth GPS receivers connect and that way allow real-time GPS-navigation... added by the WPS/GSM-triangulation capability the iphone 2G/3G has a clear advantage over the other smartphones that don't have that... my old treo didn't have wifi which means no WPS-triangulation for those "smart"phones....
A-GPS, assisted by WPS, is awesome! it will allow for a much more precise and faster first fix for the A-GPS module!!!
Well, coming from a background where I have used nothing but smartphones, from Ericsson, then Sony Ericsson, Nokia ( I had the original Communicator, #102 off the production line), and I can say in terms of smartphone features, the iPhone is lacking. A keyboard is great but what if you do not have the basics like OBEX support? How about sending files or receiving them? These are smartphone features. The iPhone is a specially targeted device with some pretty cool smoke and mirrors and outstanding software (this is the winner here). Other phones have GPS. I will put my N82 up against an iPhone 3G when it comes out (I plan to get one anyway) and I am quite sure the N82 will stack up. For me, for me, for me, the iPhone is a great media device that has new and improved telephone functions. Many to most of the things it brings, I have had before, but for me the 3G was a critical component that was missing. This is a debate that can go round and round and in fact it should. Apple should maybe take a peek and see how to improve for the next version.
Really?
Can you send files with an iPhone? Exchange biz cards? Does it have A2DP. How about real BT support? Can it tether to a computer? Survey says: No. But what it does, it does extremely well. I think solipism's definition of an iPhone is spot on. While not necessarily being smart, it ain't quite dumb either.
Just a thought as well.
my businnes info is my email signature. and i send photos with my iphone... next iphone osX releases will for sure include the ability to edit and send office/iwork documents... just a question of time... for the old and new iphone... since both have the same prozessor there's no need to fear that apple will not upgrade the "old" iphone with the new features....
... Jobs Has Really Gone Downhill.
I guess myself, I don't know if I'm happy that the contract price went down, or the prepaid price went up? I think one of the reason Jobs looks under the weather is that he can't figure out how to please everyone. Which no human can.
By the way, many people around the world face much bigger problems, no one is putting a gun to your head and forcing you to buy an iPhone. If all Apple products turned into salt tomorrow, the world would (probably) go on. For better or worse, that's up to the people.
I guess myself, I don't know if I'm happy that the contract price went down, or the prepaid price went up? I think one of the reason Jobs looks under the weather is that he can't figure out how to please everyone. Which no human can.
By the way, many people around the world face much bigger problems, no one is putting a gun to your head and forcing you to buy an iPhone. If all Apple products turned into salt tomorrow, the world would (probably) go on. For better or worse, that's up to the people.
very true... even though i would miss my macbook pro and iphone very much... but life would go on...