Not to be funny or anything, but us lot in the UK have it pretty good, since the original iPhone came out they've given us unlimited data minutes (under an excessive use policy, apparently it just means if u use more than the average user they'll give you a call), and free wi-fi with the cloud (which can be found in pretty much any coffee shop in the UK), and unlimited txts all for £30 a month with a £7.50 bolt on, I mean, come on! You can't say that's not amazing!
For all of that I don't mind paying more for the iPhone than the yanks, on top of that, u can get the bloody thing on Pay as you go over here, so you're not bound to a contract!
I for one, am not complaining! Most of the mobile operators around here in the UK are now offering unlimited free 3G as standard, it's a great move, I'm assuming it's because the competition for mobile providers here is greater than over there in the US, so the customers here get all of the benefit!
I recieved an SMS from Vodafone New Zealand yesterday morning which said:
"From 28 July 08 there will be new charges on Vodafone live & a new casual internet data rate on yr mobile. Freecall 489 for pricing & details"
Calling this number told me, among other things:
- Vodafone NZ is introducing a "new low casual rate for internet data" - available on both Prepay and On Account Plans.
- Cost is up to $1.00 NZD per day, for 10MB. You only pay for the days that you use, and if you use less than 10MB in one day, you are only charged for the amount that you use. If you go over this, you are charged at a rate of $1.00 for 1MB.
Still no word on iPhone or plan costs in New Zealand however. But this change seems to be as a direct result of the introduction of the iPhone into NZ next month.
I for one, am not complaining! Most of the mobile operators around here in the UK are now offering unlimited free 3G as standard, it's a great move, I'm assuming it's because the competition for mobile providers here is greater than over there in the US, so the customers here get all of the benefit!
Considering that O2's regular price contract plan for £35 gives you the same 600 minutes and the same 500 SMS as the iphone £35 plan (yet the iphone plan has unlimited data) --- I would say that the UK iphone plan is a great deal.
....the iPhone 3G will be more expensive in parts of Europe relative to the US when compared in US dollars. ....the new iPhone will be priced at 199 Euros in parts of Europe, like Spain. ...Thanks to the weak US dollar, at current exchange rates that works out to a little more than $310 in US currency. That pricing premium is nothing new, as Apple's Mac and iPod products in Europe are commonly priced the same in Euros as identical models of Apple's American products are in US dollars, making them a bit more than 50% more expensive outside the US.
Does anyone else think it's crazy how common journalists, analysts, etc always attempt to determine relative value by comparing prices after simply converting them to a common currency? I can already hear people saying "OMG, THOSE EUROPEANS GET RIPPED OFF!". I'm surely no economist (and still young), but I'm pretty sure this is NOT an accurate means of determining value. Different countries have different relative costs for different goods, different per capita mean incomes, the purchasing power of different currencies, etc. Isn't there another step required here to get a more accurate picture of relative costs? Multiplying iPhone price by Big Mac Index? lol
Does anyone else think it's crazy how common journalists, analysts, etc always attempt to determine relative value by comparing prices after simply converting them to a common currency? I can already hear people saying "OMG, THOSE EUROPEANS GET RIPPED OFF!". I'm surely no economist (and still young), but I'm pretty sure this is NOT an accurate means of determining value. Different countries have different relative costs for different goods, different per capita mean incomes, etc. Isn't there another step required here to get a more accurate picture of relative costs? calculation involving a "purchasing parity" index or something? Big Mac Index? lol
*ALARM*! calling all economists for assistance!
Sure living in London and Paris is super expensive.
But we are also talking about countries like Italy and Spain --- where GDP per capita is not as high as the US.
Traveling out of country with your iPhone. May not be the usual thing for Yanks, but far easier and cheaper for Europeans and probably Asians.
What is needed is the ability to get only a SIMM card in your second (or multiple) country(s) that will function in your iPhone. The first GSM phone I bought was in Australia for business. When I went to the UK I was able to get another pre-paid SIMM card there and then started using the phone in the US when I changed to ATT.
But that's on a simple mobile phone. There needs to be arrangements between international iPhone carriers that will allow international travelers to use multiple SIMM cards when they travel. One major reason for changing chips when I arrived in a country was that people calling me didn't want to make an international call when I was actually in town!
Hopefully Apple can start getting this worked out.
I love how more details have emerged about June 11 international launches than the June 11 US launch. Cause don't here in the US don't know shit on the part of AT&T.
Now for the missing piece. Traveling out of country with your iPhone. .....What is needed is the ability to get only a SIMM card in your second (or multiple) country(s) that will function in your iPhone.
Yes, this should be a HUGE complaint among iPhone users, especially now that there is no apparent hard and fast rule for carrier exclusivity.
I understand and accept the right of carriers to maintain phone locks when they are subsidizing handsets being used on their network, but I believe it should be regulated. They should have to provide the unlock code after the contract is up or if you pay the contract cancellation fee. They should also have to provide a way to let users use local SIM cards when traveling out of country. It's not fair to make people pay huge roaming bills.
On the other hand, much of this type of regulation wouldn't be necessary if consumers were smarter and organized into a massive "special interest group" that boycotted products and services to get their way. Kind of like a consumer->business collective bargaining! I think the enormous possibilities of the internet for organization should be used in this way! I think the consumerist.com should start a membership club!
People keep saying these legal requirements at some un-named country.
The only countries with anti-simlocking laws are Belgium and Singapore. Belgium's law is being appeal at the European Court of Justice and the Belgium government is already ready to kill the law. Singapore is a autocratic city state with laws that no legal reasoning --- not a single government white paper explains their anti-simlocking stance.
Well I'm from Singapore and I think that anti-simlocking is good for me, the consumer, so I don't think that any explanation is needed. Over here we can change our phones as and when we want to without any worries or restrictions. The only things we can't change so readily is our service contract cos of all the penalties due to the carrier subsidy for your handset.
So what is there that is so bad about anti-simlocking? In fact it encourages a healthy handset market for new and even used handsets. It even encourages handset makers to release their best handsets here cos you can really tell if you have a really hot seller or a lemon. So it encourages all the service providers and handset makers to stay on their toes if they want to keep us using their stuff.
Now if only someone can get Apple to release the iPhone 3G here on 11 July like the rest of the world, I'd be a really happy camper.
Well I'm from Singapore and I think that anti-simlocking is good for me, the consumer, so I don't think that any explanation is needed. Over here we can change our phones as and when we want to without any worries or restrictions. The only things we can't change so readily is our service contract cos of all the penalties due to the carrier subsidy for your handset.
Just look at the US --- the US doesn't even have anti-simlocking laws, yet AT&T Wireless and T-Mobile USA both give out unlocking codes for free to their subscribers after 90 days (the exception being the iphone).
Quote:
Originally Posted by winterspan
I understand and accept the right of carriers to maintain phone locks when they are subsidizing handsets being used on their network, but I believe it should be regulated. They should have to provide the unlock code after the contract is up or if you pay the contract cancellation fee. They should also have to provide a way to let users use local SIM cards when traveling out of country. It's not fair to make people pay huge roaming bills.
But --- it is regulated in Europe and the regulations are useless. The US has no simlocking laws --- yet you can get unlocking codes for free after 90 days.
But --- it is regulated in Europe and the regulations are useless. The US has no simlocking laws --- yet you can get unlocking codes for free after 90 days.
Not exactly. Although AT&T and T-mobile may do so, the point still holds with Verizon, Sprint, Alltel, and the all the other smaller CDMA carriers. There is a SIMM card equivalent for the CDMA system which they just chose not to implement. But even without a SIMM card, it should be technically possible to move most modern CDMA phones between the two networks, however they don't let you do this.
Not exactly. Although AT&T and T-mobile may do so, the point still holds with Verizon, Sprint, Alltel, and the all the other smaller CDMA carriers. There is a SIMM card equivalent for the CDMA system which they just chose not to implement. But even without a SIMM card, it should be technically possible to move most modern CDMA phones between the two networks, however they don't let you do this.
Verizon doesn't even lock their phones.
It really doesn't matter whether it's "technically possible" --- it should only matter whether it's "financially reasonable". Most of these European countries don't even have ETF's --- the consumers have to eat the remaining contract fee before they can get out of contract.
Not exactly. Although AT&T and T-mobile may do so, the point still holds with Verizon, Sprint, Alltel, and the all the other smaller CDMA carriers. There is a SIMM card equivalent for the CDMA system which they just chose not to implement. But even without a SIMM card, it should be technically possible to move most modern CDMA phones between the two networks, however they don't let you do this.
MetroPCS is apparently willing to re-flash your phone.
Sources close to Telefonica, Apple's Spanish iPhone partner, indicate that Jobs leveraged that worldwide iPhone demand to push mobile providers to offer a flat data rate, something that many international telcos were loath to do.
...
While individual plans in every launch country have not yet been officially released, sources indicate Apple had demanded all international carriers offer a flat rate for unlimited data, although those plans are often more expensive than AT&T's iPhone deal in the US, perhaps as high as 90 Euros per month.
Well, apparently not in Finland, one of the lucky countries to get the iPhone 3G on July 11th. According to the sole provider Sonera there's no "unlimited data" plan. The most you can get is 1GB for almost 90 euros/month.
At least for me, that probably means I'll pass on the iPhone for now. Has anyone seen a comparison between different countries on the total price for getting an iPhone? (cost up front + monthly cost)
Has anyone seen a comparison between different countries on the total price for getting an iPhone? (cost up front + monthly cost)
I don't know how you could do this, as the plans are so convoluted. Just look at the plans for Australia posted today--I don't think I have seen "flag fees" anywhere else.
I don't know how you could do this, as the plans are so convoluted. Just look at the plans for Australia posted today--I don't think I have seen "flag fees" anywhere else.
I just dont see any way to compare...
Quite a few countries have many many regulations from handset subsidies to simlocking to contract lengths....
So carriers think up new ways to bypass these regulations. No handset subsidies allow --- no problem, we will just rent you the phone or some sort of complicated handset prepayment scheme where we will give you a discount back average month for the rest of your 24 month contract.
I don't know how you could do this, as the plans are so convoluted. Just look at the plans for Australia posted today--I don't think I have seen "flag fees" anywhere else.
I just dont see any way to compare...
Finland has flag fees as well.
For calls and text they are pretty cheap, 7.9 c (¢12 US), but for data not so much, 1.49 euros/MB! That's $2.36. Enough to kill a horse.
Comments
For all of that I don't mind paying more for the iPhone than the yanks, on top of that, u can get the bloody thing on Pay as you go over here, so you're not bound to a contract!
I for one, am not complaining! Most of the mobile operators around here in the UK are now offering unlimited free 3G as standard, it's a great move, I'm assuming it's because the competition for mobile providers here is greater than over there in the US, so the customers here get all of the benefit!
Pleas help me out. Is this supposed to be clever, funny or something else?
( Anyway, when I look at it upside-down it looks like 119)
no wonder that pizza never got here last night
"From 28 July 08 there will be new charges on Vodafone live & a new casual internet data rate on yr mobile. Freecall 489 for pricing & details"
Calling this number told me, among other things:
- Vodafone NZ is introducing a "new low casual rate for internet data" - available on both Prepay and On Account Plans.
- Cost is up to $1.00 NZD per day, for 10MB. You only pay for the days that you use, and if you use less than 10MB in one day, you are only charged for the amount that you use. If you go over this, you are charged at a rate of $1.00 for 1MB.
Still no word on iPhone or plan costs in New Zealand however. But this change seems to be as a direct result of the introduction of the iPhone into NZ next month.
I for one, am not complaining! Most of the mobile operators around here in the UK are now offering unlimited free 3G as standard, it's a great move, I'm assuming it's because the competition for mobile providers here is greater than over there in the US, so the customers here get all of the benefit!
Considering that O2's regular price contract plan for £35 gives you the same 600 minutes and the same 500 SMS as the iphone £35 plan (yet the iphone plan has unlimited data) --- I would say that the UK iphone plan is a great deal.
http://www.o2.co.uk/mobilestariffs/t...monthlytariffs
On the other hand, it also means that 99% of the population who doesn't have an iphone --- suffer from some of the most uncompetitive tariffs.
....the iPhone 3G will be more expensive in parts of Europe relative to the US when compared in US dollars. ....the new iPhone will be priced at 199 Euros in parts of Europe, like Spain. ...Thanks to the weak US dollar, at current exchange rates that works out to a little more than $310 in US currency. That pricing premium is nothing new, as Apple's Mac and iPod products in Europe are commonly priced the same in Euros as identical models of Apple's American products are in US dollars, making them a bit more than 50% more expensive outside the US.
Does anyone else think it's crazy how common journalists, analysts, etc always attempt to determine relative value by comparing prices after simply converting them to a common currency? I can already hear people saying "OMG, THOSE EUROPEANS GET RIPPED OFF!". I'm surely no economist (and still young), but I'm pretty sure this is NOT an accurate means of determining value. Different countries have different relative costs for different goods, different per capita mean incomes, the purchasing power of different currencies, etc. Isn't there another step required here to get a more accurate picture of relative costs? Multiplying iPhone price by Big Mac Index? lol
*ALARM*! calling all economists for assistance!
Does anyone else think it's crazy how common journalists, analysts, etc always attempt to determine relative value by comparing prices after simply converting them to a common currency? I can already hear people saying "OMG, THOSE EUROPEANS GET RIPPED OFF!". I'm surely no economist (and still young), but I'm pretty sure this is NOT an accurate means of determining value. Different countries have different relative costs for different goods, different per capita mean incomes, etc. Isn't there another step required here to get a more accurate picture of relative costs? calculation involving a "purchasing parity" index or something? Big Mac Index? lol
*ALARM*! calling all economists for assistance!
Sure living in London and Paris is super expensive.
But we are also talking about countries like Italy and Spain --- where GDP per capita is not as high as the US.
Traveling out of country with your iPhone. May not be the usual thing for Yanks, but far easier and cheaper for Europeans and probably Asians.
What is needed is the ability to get only a SIMM card in your second (or multiple) country(s) that will function in your iPhone. The first GSM phone I bought was in Australia for business. When I went to the UK I was able to get another pre-paid SIMM card there and then started using the phone in the US when I changed to ATT.
But that's on a simple mobile phone. There needs to be arrangements between international iPhone carriers that will allow international travelers to use multiple SIMM cards when they travel. One major reason for changing chips when I arrived in a country was that people calling me didn't want to make an international call when I was actually in town!
Hopefully Apple can start getting this worked out.
Now for the missing piece. Traveling out of country with your iPhone. .....What is needed is the ability to get only a SIMM card in your second (or multiple) country(s) that will function in your iPhone.
Yes, this should be a HUGE complaint among iPhone users, especially now that there is no apparent hard and fast rule for carrier exclusivity.
I understand and accept the right of carriers to maintain phone locks when they are subsidizing handsets being used on their network, but I believe it should be regulated. They should have to provide the unlock code after the contract is up or if you pay the contract cancellation fee. They should also have to provide a way to let users use local SIM cards when traveling out of country. It's not fair to make people pay huge roaming bills.
On the other hand, much of this type of regulation wouldn't be necessary if consumers were smarter and organized into a massive "special interest group" that boycotted products and services to get their way. Kind of like a consumer->business collective bargaining! I think the enormous possibilities of the internet for organization should be used in this way! I think the consumerist.com should start a membership club!
People keep saying these legal requirements at some un-named country.
The only countries with anti-simlocking laws are Belgium and Singapore. Belgium's law is being appeal at the European Court of Justice and the Belgium government is already ready to kill the law. Singapore is a autocratic city state with laws that no legal reasoning --- not a single government white paper explains their anti-simlocking stance.
Well I'm from Singapore and I think that anti-simlocking is good for me, the consumer, so I don't think that any explanation is needed. Over here we can change our phones as and when we want to without any worries or restrictions. The only things we can't change so readily is our service contract cos of all the penalties due to the carrier subsidy for your handset.
So what is there that is so bad about anti-simlocking? In fact it encourages a healthy handset market for new and even used handsets. It even encourages handset makers to release their best handsets here cos you can really tell if you have a really hot seller or a lemon. So it encourages all the service providers and handset makers to stay on their toes if they want to keep us using their stuff.
Now if only someone can get Apple to release the iPhone 3G here on 11 July like the rest of the world, I'd be a really happy camper.
Well I'm from Singapore and I think that anti-simlocking is good for me, the consumer, so I don't think that any explanation is needed. Over here we can change our phones as and when we want to without any worries or restrictions. The only things we can't change so readily is our service contract cos of all the penalties due to the carrier subsidy for your handset.
Just look at the US --- the US doesn't even have anti-simlocking laws, yet AT&T Wireless and T-Mobile USA both give out unlocking codes for free to their subscribers after 90 days (the exception being the iphone).
I understand and accept the right of carriers to maintain phone locks when they are subsidizing handsets being used on their network, but I believe it should be regulated. They should have to provide the unlock code after the contract is up or if you pay the contract cancellation fee. They should also have to provide a way to let users use local SIM cards when traveling out of country. It's not fair to make people pay huge roaming bills.
But --- it is regulated in Europe and the regulations are useless. The US has no simlocking laws --- yet you can get unlocking codes for free after 90 days.
But --- it is regulated in Europe and the regulations are useless. The US has no simlocking laws --- yet you can get unlocking codes for free after 90 days.
Not exactly. Although AT&T and T-mobile may do so, the point still holds with Verizon, Sprint, Alltel, and the all the other smaller CDMA carriers. There is a SIMM card equivalent for the CDMA system which they just chose not to implement. But even without a SIMM card, it should be technically possible to move most modern CDMA phones between the two networks, however they don't let you do this.
Not exactly. Although AT&T and T-mobile may do so, the point still holds with Verizon, Sprint, Alltel, and the all the other smaller CDMA carriers. There is a SIMM card equivalent for the CDMA system which they just chose not to implement. But even without a SIMM card, it should be technically possible to move most modern CDMA phones between the two networks, however they don't let you do this.
Verizon doesn't even lock their phones.
It really doesn't matter whether it's "technically possible" --- it should only matter whether it's "financially reasonable". Most of these European countries don't even have ETF's --- the consumers have to eat the remaining contract fee before they can get out of contract.
Not exactly. Although AT&T and T-mobile may do so, the point still holds with Verizon, Sprint, Alltel, and the all the other smaller CDMA carriers. There is a SIMM card equivalent for the CDMA system which they just chose not to implement. But even without a SIMM card, it should be technically possible to move most modern CDMA phones between the two networks, however they don't let you do this.
MetroPCS is apparently willing to re-flash your phone.
Sources close to Telefonica, Apple's Spanish iPhone partner, indicate that Jobs leveraged that worldwide iPhone demand to push mobile providers to offer a flat data rate, something that many international telcos were loath to do.
...
While individual plans in every launch country have not yet been officially released, sources indicate Apple had demanded all international carriers offer a flat rate for unlimited data, although those plans are often more expensive than AT&T's iPhone deal in the US, perhaps as high as 90 Euros per month.
Well, apparently not in Finland, one of the lucky countries to get the iPhone 3G on July 11th. According to the sole provider Sonera there's no "unlimited data" plan. The most you can get is 1GB for almost 90 euros/month.
At least for me, that probably means I'll pass on the iPhone for now. Has anyone seen a comparison between different countries on the total price for getting an iPhone? (cost up front + monthly cost)
Has anyone seen a comparison between different countries on the total price for getting an iPhone? (cost up front + monthly cost)
I don't know how you could do this, as the plans are so convoluted. Just look at the plans for Australia posted today--I don't think I have seen "flag fees" anywhere else.
I just dont see any way to compare...
I don't know how you could do this, as the plans are so convoluted. Just look at the plans for Australia posted today--I don't think I have seen "flag fees" anywhere else.
I just dont see any way to compare...
Quite a few countries have many many regulations from handset subsidies to simlocking to contract lengths....
So carriers think up new ways to bypass these regulations. No handset subsidies allow --- no problem, we will just rent you the phone or some sort of complicated handset prepayment scheme where we will give you a discount back average month for the rest of your 24 month contract.
I don't know how you could do this, as the plans are so convoluted. Just look at the plans for Australia posted today--I don't think I have seen "flag fees" anywhere else.
I just dont see any way to compare...
Finland has flag fees as well.
For calls and text they are pretty cheap, 7.9 c (¢12 US), but for data not so much, 1.49 euros/MB! That's $2.36. Enough to kill a horse.