People here expect to be able to buy a phone, pick whatever subscription they want (and according to the law must be able to do so) and use it as little or as much as they want.
Haven't you people learned from all these pricing announcements?
All those so-called laws are basically useless.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmc6000
Compared to some (UK, France) AT&T is dishing out the shaft but compared to others (Sweden, Norway, Canada) it looks like not too bad of a deal.
The French iphone plans are a lot more expensive than the US plans.
The UK iphone plan is cheaper than the US iphone plan. But for the 99% of the UK population --- they get shafted big time because O2 charges the same 35 pounds per month for the same 600 minutes and the same 500 SMS as the iphone (yet the iphone plan has unlimited data).
I wonder - what is the status of land-lines across the pond? I mean, I think the US companies throw around mins like crazy because they are still trying to convince people that it's cheaper to get a cell phone than keep their land line. I'm afraid that if the land line disappears they are just going to increase their prices because they no longer have a competitor.
The main problem with the Norwegian iPhone plans is that they force you to pay for quite a lot of data traffic - which makes the plans way too expensive for a LOT of people.
If you simply take the amount of minutes/messages/megabytes and apply other carriers' prices you'll find that the iPhone plans are several times cheaper than anything else available. Still, people simply aren't used to using that much data traffic.
Of course, the real problem with the Scandinavian mobile phone market is the prices for data traffic in general. The cheapest available prices (from very small companies with limited coverage) start at about $1.45 per MB! However, the average price is between $1.90 and $2.80 per MB. That's utterly ridiculous in my opinion. That's $2 to $3 per page view of an online newspaper!
MANY Norwegians have complained about the incredibly steep prices for the iPhone plans, but they're not taking into account what similar usage would cost with any other normal plan from any carrier, and the fact that you're far more likely to use more data traffic with your iPhone than with any other phone.
So I'm thinking I'm gonna get the iPhone 3G when it becomes available, and if I find that I'm nowhere near using up the allotted data traffic I'll pay the required fee to break the 12-month contract (which is the maximum legal length of such contracts in Norway) and go back to my current carrier (Tele2).
Looks like they forgot to mention the free access to all of over 1800 Wifi hotspots across Sweden being included with each plan. It doesnt make the cost any less extravegant but does take a bit of the pain of living here away.
What are the non iPhone plans in Canada, Sweden, Norway, etc.? Any difference?
I haven't made a real comparison as I don't live in Sweden but I do have a plan there as I frequently visit the country. The plan I have is for my company and is with the carrier Tre, a 3G-only carrier (no GSM/GRPS/EDGE in their network). It is called 3Business Max, costs me 499 kr ($83) + VAT per month and allows me a to make a virtually unlimited number of calls to both landline and mobile numbers with other operators within the country at no extra charge. I can also send an unlimited number of text and MMS messages at no extra charge, and when I use the phone in a Tre/Three network in another country (Italy, UK, Ireland, Australia etc), I can call Sweden at the same cost as if I were in Sweden. I also pay nothing to receive calls in those networks.
Data is charged separately at 8 kr ($1.33) per megabyte for 7.2 Mbps Turbo 3G. Nevertheless I have added a separate data plan at 199 kr ($33) per month which gives me unlimited data transfer with no cap.
As I frequently need to call abroad whenever I am in Sweden, I also have an international add-on named, I belive, 3Global. With it, I can call most countries in the world at 0.14 kr ($0.025) per minute, which is almost less than making a landline call within the UK. Quite amazing.
I wonder - what is the status of land-lines across the pond? I mean, I think the US companies throw around mins like crazy because they are still trying to convince people that it's cheaper to get a cell phone than keep their land line. I'm afraid that if the land line disappears they are just going to increase their prices because they no longer have a competitor.
The US model is quad play --- you are going to keep landline with AT&T or Verizon anyway.
The US model is quad play --- you are going to keep landline with AT&T or Verizon anyway.
ATT is not a big player (if they play at all) in the land line business. They are primarily a long distance provider. The local line is provided by others.
ATT is not a big player (if they play at all) in the land line business. They are primarily a long distance provider. The local line is provided by others.
That was the old AT&T.
The "new" AT&T is the combination of SBC and BellSouth --- 2 baby bells.
At&t better not follow these numbers! I must say that Europe does not have the cell-phone decease though, so companies have to charge these numbers. Plus population and the ratios are much smaller.
In US almost everyone and their grand-ma has a cell-phone.
The "new" AT&T is the combination of SBC and BellSouth --- 2 baby bells.
I actually have an AT&T land line for 2 purposes - 1) so I can get DSL (I've got satellite TV and I refuse to pay cables insane rates) and 2) so when I have to give my number to people I don't actually want calling me I can give them my land line. I, however, know a number of people who have completely abandoned their land lines altogether. I just wonder the percentage of people in, say, the UK have both or just a land line.
Swedish TeliaSonera seems to have stupid 3G plans. No unlimited data transfer options.
TeliaSonera is the most expensive operation in Finland. Unfortunately, there is no other options to purchase iPhone in Scandinavia. I have to order 3G-iPhone from Teliasonera
I actually have an AT&T land line for 2 purposes - 1) so I can get DSL (I've got satellite TV and I refuse to pay cables insane rates) and 2) so when I have to give my number to people I don't actually want calling me I can give them my land line. I, however, know a number of people who have completely abandoned their land lines altogether. I just wonder the percentage of people in, say, the UK have both or just a land line.
At&t better not follow these numbers! I must say that Europe does not have the cell-phone decease though, so companies have to charge these numbers. Plus population and the ratios are much smaller.
In US almost everyone and their grand-ma has a cell-phone.
Well, people in Norway on average have at least one cell phone. And an increasing percentage of the population abandon their landlines all together. I haven't had a landline for over 6 years. Mostly it's people over 30 who still have a landline.
Keep in mind, the prices used in these comparisons are converted to USD using the current conversion rate, but when comparing prices between currencies you need to use the "BigMac Index". Otherwise, especially now that the USD is at it's lowest, the prices will be very inaccurate.
Using the current conversion rate, the price of the 16GB iPhone in Norway, 2290,- NOK, is approximately $450. Using the BigMac Index the price is translated to approximately $290. This includes 25% sales tax.
Using the BigMac Index the price for the cheapest iPhone plan in Norway translates into approximately $50 per month.
What does data traffic cost in the US, on average?
Good lord - are these guys owned by rogers Canada?? Or is Sweden similar to Canada in that it has near monopolistic carriers and no competition?
In sweden there are four main carriers but TeliaSonera is the old molopolistic carrier that got competition as soon as GSM was launched in the early nineties. Beside the four carries there ar a number of smaller carriers using the two main backbone 3G networks owned and operated by the four main carriers. So no, competition is hard. The problem is that Apple don't understand that they need to select a modern carrier not something from the jurassic age.
There are two big problems here:
1. TeliaSonera do not have the competency to understand what all other carriers have understood for a long time: Flat rate for data transfer is needed to get customers to use 3G and especially HSDPA. And why should the customers buy the best surf phone ever when the surfing will be really expensive. Imagine extensive e-mailing with push.. .
2. Apple being complete idiots only offering the phone via one carrier. And this in a country where consumers are more or less "anti apple". Most people here don't like Apple due to the fact that they put too many obstacles for other ways of using their products than the one-and-only Apple way. People feel that Aplle is locking them in (like buying iTunes songs in the past, that were not possible to play on anything else than Apple products or with Apple software). Now they are doing it again in Scandinavia. Locking out appr 70% of the potential customers who for one or other reason don't want to be a TeliaSonera customer. ALso Apple seems to be out there for getting business users as well. Then they probably miss 60-70% also there.
I only know one time before in Sweden when a phone only was available via one single carrier (there might have been more cases). Anyhow this was a SonyEricsson phone available only top Vodafone customers at that time. I guess it sold less than 1000 pieces becuse it was discontinued very quickly and then relaunchedwith a different name, a different colour and available for all carriers.
I really hope iPhone will flop in Scandinavia. That is the only way that might get the phone available for more carriers. And for all potential customers.
I really hope iPhone will flop in Scandinavia. That is the only way that might get the phone available for more carriers. And for all potential customers.
Even here in the USA, I hope that the iPhone will eventually get to other carriers besides AT&T. But, if the other carriers in Scandinavia or another EU country could carry it, would they also have the extras like visual voicemail, etc. Doesn't each carrier have to do extra software/hardware setups to their network to work with the iPhone extras, even the GPS from Google, if that is available in a certain country. I would be interested in those details.
There seems to be a little confusion over these prices. (or it might be just me!)
Could our Nordic and Baltic friends tell us how much other phones would cost (Nokia N95, Blackberry etc) from the same carriers ... together with data/talk/text plans ?
There seems to be a little confusion over these prices. (or it might be just me!)
Could our Nordic and Baltic friends tell us how much other phones would cost (Nokia N95, Blackberry etc) from the same carriers ... together with data/talk/text plans ?
Thanks.
It doesn't matter --- because most of these people never subscribe to data plans.
Comments
People here expect to be able to buy a phone, pick whatever subscription they want (and according to the law must be able to do so) and use it as little or as much as they want.
Haven't you people learned from all these pricing announcements?
All those so-called laws are basically useless.
Compared to some (UK, France) AT&T is dishing out the shaft but compared to others (Sweden, Norway, Canada) it looks like not too bad of a deal.
The French iphone plans are a lot more expensive than the US plans.
The UK iphone plan is cheaper than the US iphone plan. But for the 99% of the UK population --- they get shafted big time because O2 charges the same 35 pounds per month for the same 600 minutes and the same 500 SMS as the iphone (yet the iphone plan has unlimited data).
http://www.o2.co.uk/mobilestariffs/t...monthlytariffs
If you simply take the amount of minutes/messages/megabytes and apply other carriers' prices you'll find that the iPhone plans are several times cheaper than anything else available. Still, people simply aren't used to using that much data traffic.
Of course, the real problem with the Scandinavian mobile phone market is the prices for data traffic in general. The cheapest available prices (from very small companies with limited coverage) start at about $1.45 per MB! However, the average price is between $1.90 and $2.80 per MB. That's utterly ridiculous in my opinion. That's $2 to $3 per page view of an online newspaper!
MANY Norwegians have complained about the incredibly steep prices for the iPhone plans, but they're not taking into account what similar usage would cost with any other normal plan from any carrier, and the fact that you're far more likely to use more data traffic with your iPhone than with any other phone.
So I'm thinking I'm gonna get the iPhone 3G when it becomes available, and if I find that I'm nowhere near using up the allotted data traffic I'll pay the required fee to break the 12-month contract (which is the maximum legal length of such contracts in Norway) and go back to my current carrier (Tele2).
What are the non iPhone plans in Canada, Sweden, Norway, etc.? Any difference?
I haven't made a real comparison as I don't live in Sweden but I do have a plan there as I frequently visit the country. The plan I have is for my company and is with the carrier Tre, a 3G-only carrier (no GSM/GRPS/EDGE in their network). It is called 3Business Max, costs me 499 kr ($83) + VAT per month and allows me a to make a virtually unlimited number of calls to both landline and mobile numbers with other operators within the country at no extra charge. I can also send an unlimited number of text and MMS messages at no extra charge, and when I use the phone in a Tre/Three network in another country (Italy, UK, Ireland, Australia etc), I can call Sweden at the same cost as if I were in Sweden. I also pay nothing to receive calls in those networks.
Data is charged separately at 8 kr ($1.33) per megabyte for 7.2 Mbps Turbo 3G. Nevertheless I have added a separate data plan at 199 kr ($33) per month which gives me unlimited data transfer with no cap.
As I frequently need to call abroad whenever I am in Sweden, I also have an international add-on named, I belive, 3Global. With it, I can call most countries in the world at 0.14 kr ($0.025) per minute, which is almost less than making a landline call within the UK. Quite amazing.
I wonder - what is the status of land-lines across the pond? I mean, I think the US companies throw around mins like crazy because they are still trying to convince people that it's cheaper to get a cell phone than keep their land line. I'm afraid that if the land line disappears they are just going to increase their prices because they no longer have a competitor.
The US model is quad play --- you are going to keep landline with AT&T or Verizon anyway.
The US model is quad play --- you are going to keep landline with AT&T or Verizon anyway.
ATT is not a big player (if they play at all) in the land line business. They are primarily a long distance provider. The local line is provided by others.
ATT is not a big player (if they play at all) in the land line business. They are primarily a long distance provider. The local line is provided by others.
That was the old AT&T.
The "new" AT&T is the combination of SBC and BellSouth --- 2 baby bells.
In US almost everyone and their grand-ma has a cell-phone.
That was the old AT&T.
The "new" AT&T is the combination of SBC and BellSouth --- 2 baby bells.
I actually have an AT&T land line for 2 purposes - 1) so I can get DSL (I've got satellite TV and I refuse to pay cables insane rates) and 2) so when I have to give my number to people I don't actually want calling me I can give them my land line. I, however, know a number of people who have completely abandoned their land lines altogether. I just wonder the percentage of people in, say, the UK have both or just a land line.
TeliaSonera is the most expensive operation in Finland. Unfortunately, there is no other options to purchase iPhone in Scandinavia. I have to order 3G-iPhone from Teliasonera
I actually have an AT&T land line for 2 purposes - 1) so I can get DSL (I've got satellite TV and I refuse to pay cables insane rates) and 2) so when I have to give my number to people I don't actually want calling me I can give them my land line. I, however, know a number of people who have completely abandoned their land lines altogether. I just wonder the percentage of people in, say, the UK have both or just a land line.
87% of UK homes have landlines.
http://share.skype.com/sites/uk/2008...es_on_the.html
At&t better not follow these numbers! I must say that Europe does not have the cell-phone decease though, so companies have to charge these numbers. Plus population and the ratios are much smaller.
In US almost everyone and their grand-ma has a cell-phone.
Well, people in Norway on average have at least one cell phone. And an increasing percentage of the population abandon their landlines all together. I haven't had a landline for over 6 years. Mostly it's people over 30 who still have a landline.
Keep in mind, the prices used in these comparisons are converted to USD using the current conversion rate, but when comparing prices between currencies you need to use the "BigMac Index". Otherwise, especially now that the USD is at it's lowest, the prices will be very inaccurate.
Using the current conversion rate, the price of the 16GB iPhone in Norway, 2290,- NOK, is approximately $450. Using the BigMac Index the price is translated to approximately $290. This includes 25% sales tax.
Using the BigMac Index the price for the cheapest iPhone plan in Norway translates into approximately $50 per month.
What does data traffic cost in the US, on average?
Way way too expensive in lots of markets = NOT 12 million units sold anytime soon.
Time to short AAPL...
Good lord - are these guys owned by rogers Canada?? Or is Sweden similar to Canada in that it has near monopolistic carriers and no competition?
In sweden there are four main carriers but TeliaSonera is the old molopolistic carrier that got competition as soon as GSM was launched in the early nineties. Beside the four carries there ar a number of smaller carriers using the two main backbone 3G networks owned and operated by the four main carriers. So no, competition is hard. The problem is that Apple don't understand that they need to select a modern carrier not something from the jurassic age.
There are two big problems here:
1. TeliaSonera do not have the competency to understand what all other carriers have understood for a long time: Flat rate for data transfer is needed to get customers to use 3G and especially HSDPA. And why should the customers buy the best surf phone ever when the surfing will be really expensive. Imagine extensive e-mailing with push.. .
2. Apple being complete idiots only offering the phone via one carrier. And this in a country where consumers are more or less "anti apple". Most people here don't like Apple due to the fact that they put too many obstacles for other ways of using their products than the one-and-only Apple way. People feel that Aplle is locking them in (like buying iTunes songs in the past, that were not possible to play on anything else than Apple products or with Apple software). Now they are doing it again in Scandinavia. Locking out appr 70% of the potential customers who for one or other reason don't want to be a TeliaSonera customer. ALso Apple seems to be out there for getting business users as well. Then they probably miss 60-70% also there.
I only know one time before in Sweden when a phone only was available via one single carrier (there might have been more cases). Anyhow this was a SonyEricsson phone available only top Vodafone customers at that time. I guess it sold less than 1000 pieces becuse it was discontinued very quickly and then relaunchedwith a different name, a different colour and available for all carriers.
I really hope iPhone will flop in Scandinavia. That is the only way that might get the phone available for more carriers. And for all potential customers.
I really hope iPhone will flop in Scandinavia. That is the only way that might get the phone available for more carriers. And for all potential customers.
Even here in the USA, I hope that the iPhone will eventually get to other carriers besides AT&T. But, if the other carriers in Scandinavia or another EU country could carry it, would they also have the extras like visual voicemail, etc. Doesn't each carrier have to do extra software/hardware setups to their network to work with the iPhone extras, even the GPS from Google, if that is available in a certain country. I would be interested in those details.
Could our Nordic and Baltic friends tell us how much other phones would cost (Nokia N95, Blackberry etc) from the same carriers ... together with data/talk/text plans ?
Thanks.
There seems to be a little confusion over these prices. (or it might be just me!)
Could our Nordic and Baltic friends tell us how much other phones would cost (Nokia N95, Blackberry etc) from the same carriers ... together with data/talk/text plans ?
Thanks.
It doesn't matter --- because most of these people never subscribe to data plans.
http://disruptivewireless.blogspot.c...artphones.html
It doesn't matter --- because most of these people never subscribe to data plans.
Can you give it rest?
I (and perhaps others on this forum) are interested in comparing iPhone prices and plans in other countries.