He means- It one of the SLOOOOWEST running MACS ever.
And that's not a complaint but a fact.
My 1.6GHz MacBook Air is dramatically faster than my 12" 1.5GHz PowerBook with 1.25GB (maxed-out) RAM. Benchmarks indicate it is about 3x faster and that is consistent with my experience.
If some people here refuse to write what they mean, how can we believe that they mean what they write?
Also, the tests showed no significant speed or power benefits. The solid state of the drive has plenty of benefits as it theoretically will be less prone to damage or wear and tear as it has no moving parts. On the flip-side, it's also less tried and true then HDDs.
You make an excellent point. The SSD's are less tried and true than HDD's. At least if there is a failure of the hard drive, there can be a chance at data recovery. If the memory chips fail on the SSD, I am sure you are pretty much screwed for any chance of data recovery. I wonder if the SSD model uses the same interface as the HDD model? I don't think anyone would be happy having to drop $500 + labor to replace the failed SSD drive once the Air is out of warranty. If that happens, I am sure people would be more interested in replacing it with a much less expensive HDD instead.
And, for what its worth, (and you really need to think about this), Apple needs to get away from the NO GPU in MINI, MACBOOK, and AIR (regardless of battery life).
Now, besides the Air being over priced, under powered, and okay, light, Apple has this mind set that they insist on screwing the PRO user.
Entertain me.
When the 1st Macbook came out, the OpenGL came out scoring 71%, not bad, then it jumped to 120%, still, no gaming right, so who cares? Well, as it turns out, Barefeats reports MOTION could run on the Macbook. Then, the next gen with Leopard made Open GL jump to 171%, wow, still, no gaming, but motion was great. So, what did apple do, the crippled it and now it scores at a measly 24%. Why? It was never good for games, so why screw with the PRO users, who cares if they can use a cheap machine for motion, chances are you can rest assured they have a PRO machine and you can't play games on it, so why screw with us?
Now, could you play games on a mini or a Macbook, you could be sure that MOTION and 3D would run great. SO WHAT?!
Why does Apple keep insisting on screwing with the PRO, which by the way is the smallest user base. Its baffling. Reallly. You can then look at the iMac, which used to ship with MATTE, but now its all GLOSSY, again, NO PRO USE for COLOR or GRAPHICS (which was not the case a few years back), again, screwing the consumers.
To make matters worse, the Macbook and iMac also use CHEAP NON STANDARD Firewire chipsets (Macbook Pro and Mac Pro use TEXAS INSTRUMENTS), if you read some audio forums, many high end studios complain that their audio device won't work with a macbook or iMac, in fact, from Sept 07 to FEB 08, the Macbook Pro had the same cheap chip-set.
So, all in all, Apple continues to reduce prices, and focuses on the CONSUMER and not the PRO, but at the SAME time, screws over the PRO user.
It makes no sense. With gaming being one of the biggest markets, bigger than music, think about what it would be like if EVERY APPLE had a GREAT GPU, everyone and their mother would by a MAC mini or a Macbook, as a second computer that you could use for games, PRO use and not worry about as much as your $2500MBP or Mac Pro, not that you would lose that latter.
Still. Apple needs to grow up and get away from this whole ON BOARD GPU crap and let users play games then use it for motion if they want.
It's terrible marketing. It really is.
That was a long post, given that nothing much was actually said.
Can you show that this is one of the lowest selling computers Apple has ever had?
The word has been that it's selling quite well, particularly when considering its price.
According to Apple's last quarterly meeting notes, the MBA was not selling very well, and had disappointed analysts as well as the company. The forecast was off by almost 90,000 units. One executive compared it to the Cube.
I've been phoned by sales from over at the local Apple Store on 3 occasions in June alone, pushing the MBA (they know I'm in the market for a laptop). But it's just not going to work for me. I wanted it to... but I just can't "settle" for a functionality-depleted machine & go for looks.
It's a very cool computer but it wasn't designed for the road warrior. As I closely evaluated the unit, I looked over my product spec and PPT folders and those alone were 92 GB. I would have to do some serious paring down everywhere. When you're 10,000 miles from the office & no net connection, you better have every PPT and spec available
There would be many sacrifices needed, such as no more 1394 & saying goodbye to my whole back-up plan, which is very elegant. I use SuperDuper to a 1394>SATA external drive that is the exact same size as the drive in my Mac laptop, so a quick switch gets me up & running in less than 10 minutes. No longer effective with the MBA ... I'd have to wait 2 weeks or so & take it to the Apple Store.
The major problem was the poor choice to use a Parallel bus for the SSD drive. This means when Samsung releases their 250 GB Solid State 1.8" SATA drive in Q4, MBA owners will not be able to put one inside their MBA's, even though the form factor is right on.
The battery is the real killer, though. Flying from LAX to MEL takes 16-1/2 hours. It takes 9 hours to fly from ORD to CDG. It takes 9-1/2 hours to fly from SYD to HKG. I'm supposed to travel with a laptop whose battery can't be replaced? Gimme a break, dude.
Unlike Steve, I wasn't given my own private jet, so I need to tote extra batteries to keep working and watch movies ripped to the hard drive - whoops, sorry - with such a tiny drive, I guess ripping DVDs would be out of the question.
Also, I kind of think $1800 for one USB port is a little goofy. Again, the laptop is very cool but I think Apple went overboard on the whole thin thing. I mean, unless we're still in 1995 and laptops are 4-1/2" thick again, I don't think this is a problem anymore.
I'd love to tote a MBA around to local coffee shops and hear the oohs and aahhs. But to head out on the road to do business? Naw, it's just too limited. It's been stripped down way too much. Plus, it still has a 13" screen, and anybody who travels knows that 12" is the perfect size for that seat back tray!
He means- It one of the SLOOOOWEST running MACS ever.
And that's not a complaint but a fact.
Admittedly, this is not a speed demon. What's pretty good about todays tech is that a machine that is considered to be slow can still perform a good amount of work.
I never said "it shouldn't have been an Air." All I said was that she was a bad shopper. You don't have to have a PHD or be a CPA to realize that anything that gets devalued by 1/6th of its initial cost in 5 months is not a smart purchase. That's double the standard rate of depreciation of a 5 year write down- you do the math. And that goes for any purchase: Apple or otherwise.
That's ridiculous!
Don't try to pretend that you know better. Out of all of Apple's products that are current, two have had their price dropped by a fair amount suddenly.
For you, or anyone, to act as though you have some knowledge that it would have occurred, is nonsense!
To say that your wife is a bad shopper, is equally nonsense.
When you can provide some evidence that you could show that this would happen now, then do so. Otherwise, don't say things like that that have no credence.
I think it's pretty good that Apple has reduced the price like this. If they are getting a good buy on the drives, and cpu's, then they SHOULD drop the price.
Otherwise, you would be complaining that they didn't drop the price when they should have.
Just when are some people going to get over the idea that a company sometimes does this, that there's nothing wrong with it, that they haven't made a bad purchase at the older price, and that they aren't owed anything because of it, unless the company offers a certain period of price protection for their products, which few do?
Scroll down and there is a button where you can switch between countries.
I am a professional and use my Air daily. It has more than paid for its original cost in terms of work done, portability and ease of use. Sorry, but I think it was worth every penny.
As far as many of your other gripes, they don't bother me at all, and I am a road-warrior who works in video and audio production.
So, you may not like the Air, but many people do, it is selling well and that's life.
That's interesting... the Air has been at or near the top of the best seller list on several Apple Store sites (several countries) for months.
The MBA has also been above many other Macs on Amazon and ahead of most other competitor's notebooks, though usually only a single Asus Eee PC for around $300 beating it.
As for Hiimamac's comment that it's worth $799 to him, well that can't be contested. But if he meant that the cost of the machine plus a fair profit for Apple should amount to more no more than $799 for a retail sales price than he would be very wrong indeed.
The MBA has also been above many other Macs on Amazon and ahead of most other competitor's notebooks, usually only an Asus Eee PC for around $300 beating it.
As for Hiimamac's comment that it's worth $799 to him, well that can't be contested. But if he meant that the cost of the machine plus a fair profit for Apple should amount to more no more than $799 for a retail sales price than he would be very wrong indeed.
While he might deny it now that you've given him an out, I don't remember Hiimamac's post stating the it was worth $799 to him, just that it was worth $799, in the sense that it was equal in value to a $799 portable.
While he might deny it now that you've given him an out, I don't remember Hiimamac's post stating the it was worth $799 to him, just that it was worth $799, in the sense that it was equal in value to a $799 portable.
HAHA I guess I have given him an out, but I think most posts on this forum regarding an item being overpriced seem to stem from the poster looking at how the performance, capacity and other such aspects compare to other machines that aren't in the same category. In other words, a limited scope view.
I assume that he most likely compared it to the MacBook as it has the same size display, but then knocked a few hundred dollars off his "worthy" price of the base MB model as it has a slower processor and less capacity HDD. To say it's only worth $799 implies that he has not considered how a 40% lighter notebook with the same size display and keyboard might be more expensive to design and manufacturer, or that there are people who would find the MBA's design a perfect fit.
When the MBA was first announced there was shock that Apple charged $999 for a 64GB 1.8" SSD. Yet a Google Product search at the time presented not one company willing to sell you one for less than that; and most were around double the price. I believe it wasn't until weeks later that Toshiba or another PC manufacturer started offering a 64GB 1.8" SSD option for notebooks for around $750.
We've already seen two makers come out with comparable machines since the MBA's release, with at least one of them using the same HW components, right down to the 2GB RAM max, 80GB HDD or 64GB SSD, and processor/die design. I find it most humourous that these machines cost more than the MBA, yet they came out several months after the MBA and shouldn't be subject to the "Apple tax."
(Note: It's late, I'm tired and my memory could be completely wrong)
HAHA I guess I have given him an out, but I think most posts on this forum regarding an item being overpriced seem to stem from the poster looking at how the performance, capacity and other such aspects compare to other machines that aren't in the same category. In other words, a limited scope view.
I assume that he most likely compared it to the MacBook as it has the same size display, but then knocked a few hundred dollars off his "worthy" price of the base MB model as it has a slower processor and less capacity HDD. To say it's only worth $799 implies that he has not considered how a 40% lighter notebook with the same size display and keyboard might be more expensive to design and manufacturer, or that there are people who would find the MBA's design a perfect fit.
When the MBA was first announced there was shock that Apple charged $999 for a 64GB 1.8" SSD. Yet a Google Product search at the time presented not one company willing to sell you one for less than that; and most were around double the price. I believe it wasn't until weeks later that Toshiba or another PC manufacturer started offering a 64GB 1.8" SSD option for notebooks for around $750.
We've already seen two makers come out with comparable machines since the MBA's release, with at least one of them using the same HW components, right down to the 2GB RAM max, 80GB HDD or 64GB SSD, and processor/die design. I find it most humourous that these machines cost more than the MBA, yet they came out several months after the MBA and shouldn't be subject to the "Apple tax."
(Note: It's late, I'm tired and my memory could be completely wrong)
Also, some people are just angry that a machine they they may want, though they might not admit it, is priced above their budget. when that happens, a number of people will try to find som reason why the machine isn't worth it. It makes them feel better about not affording it.
I never said "it shouldn't have been an Air." All I said was that she was a bad shopper. You don't have to have a PHD or be a CPA to realize that anything that gets devalued by 1/6th of its initial cost in 5 months is not a smart purchase. That's double the standard rate of depreciation of a 5 year write down- you do the math. And that goes for any purchase: Apple or otherwise.
Oh, I get it. You weren't commenting on her at all, just how silly it would be to be buying SSD drives at the moment?
Because it's the drop is price in those that has triggered this particular price drop. Funny way to make that point.
As for not buying anything that loses 1/6th of it's purchase value in five months - I guess you'd disapprove of buying cars or PCs, that sort of thing? Or is it OK, as long as the product is still expensive for other people after five months?
I'm just wondering, to be honest it sounds for all the world like your a bit of a numpty and think you can cleverly talk your way out of/around anything. Could be wrong, just sounds like that to me...
Comments
I don't know- I'm not her "personal shopper".
Hmmm. Thanks for proving my point, twit... I mean, sir.
i just love how angry and defensive people get over petty shit.
hahahahaha
He means- It one of the SLOOOOWEST running MACS ever.
And that's not a complaint but a fact.
My 1.6GHz MacBook Air is dramatically faster than my 12" 1.5GHz PowerBook with 1.25GB (maxed-out) RAM. Benchmarks indicate it is about 3x faster and that is consistent with my experience.
If some people here refuse to write what they mean, how can we believe that they mean what they write?
LOL what a deal.
still a large waste of money.
I, too, disagree.
My MBA has more than paid for itself in helping me get work done.
Also, the tests showed no significant speed or power benefits. The solid state of the drive has plenty of benefits as it theoretically will be less prone to damage or wear and tear as it has no moving parts. On the flip-side, it's also less tried and true then HDDs.
You make an excellent point. The SSD's are less tried and true than HDD's. At least if there is a failure of the hard drive, there can be a chance at data recovery. If the memory chips fail on the SSD, I am sure you are pretty much screwed for any chance of data recovery. I wonder if the SSD model uses the same interface as the HDD model? I don't think anyone would be happy having to drop $500 + labor to replace the failed SSD drive once the Air is out of warranty. If that happens, I am sure people would be more interested in replacing it with a much less expensive HDD instead.
The Air is one of the lowest selling macs ever.
IMHO, it is worth $799.
And, for what its worth, (and you really need to think about this), Apple needs to get away from the NO GPU in MINI, MACBOOK, and AIR (regardless of battery life).
Now, besides the Air being over priced, under powered, and okay, light, Apple has this mind set that they insist on screwing the PRO user.
Entertain me.
When the 1st Macbook came out, the OpenGL came out scoring 71%, not bad, then it jumped to 120%, still, no gaming right, so who cares? Well, as it turns out, Barefeats reports MOTION could run on the Macbook. Then, the next gen with Leopard made Open GL jump to 171%, wow, still, no gaming, but motion was great. So, what did apple do, the crippled it and now it scores at a measly 24%.
Now, could you play games on a mini or a Macbook, you could be sure that MOTION and 3D would run great. SO WHAT?!
Why does Apple keep insisting on screwing with the PRO, which by the way is the smallest user base. Its baffling. Reallly. You can then look at the iMac, which used to ship with MATTE, but now its all GLOSSY, again, NO PRO USE for COLOR or GRAPHICS (which was not the case a few years back), again, screwing the consumers.
To make matters worse, the Macbook and iMac also use CHEAP NON STANDARD Firewire chipsets (Macbook Pro and Mac Pro use TEXAS INSTRUMENTS), if you read some audio forums, many high end studios complain that their audio device won't work with a macbook or iMac, in fact, from Sept 07 to FEB 08, the Macbook Pro had the same cheap chip-set.
So, all in all, Apple continues to reduce prices, and focuses on the CONSUMER and not the PRO, but at the SAME time, screws over the PRO user.
It makes no sense. With gaming being one of the biggest markets, bigger than music, think about what it would be like if EVERY APPLE had a GREAT GPU, everyone and their mother would by a MAC mini or a Macbook, as a second computer that you could use for games, PRO use and not worry about as much as your $2500MBP or Mac Pro, not that you would lose that latter.
Still. Apple needs to grow up and get away from this whole ON BOARD GPU crap and let users play games then use it for motion if they want.
It's terrible marketing. It really is.
That was a long post, given that nothing much was actually said.
Can you show that this is one of the lowest selling computers Apple has ever had?
The word has been that it's selling quite well, particularly when considering its price.
According to Apple's last quarterly meeting notes, the MBA was not selling very well, and had disappointed analysts as well as the company. The forecast was off by almost 90,000 units. One executive compared it to the Cube.
I've been phoned by sales from over at the local Apple Store on 3 occasions in June alone, pushing the MBA (they know I'm in the market for a laptop). But it's just not going to work for me. I wanted it to... but I just can't "settle" for a functionality-depleted machine & go for looks.
It's a very cool computer but it wasn't designed for the road warrior. As I closely evaluated the unit, I looked over my product spec and PPT folders and those alone were 92 GB. I would have to do some serious paring down everywhere. When you're 10,000 miles from the office & no net connection, you better have every PPT and spec available
There would be many sacrifices needed, such as no more 1394 & saying goodbye to my whole back-up plan, which is very elegant. I use SuperDuper to a 1394>SATA external drive that is the exact same size as the drive in my Mac laptop, so a quick switch gets me up & running in less than 10 minutes. No longer effective with the MBA ... I'd have to wait 2 weeks or so & take it to the Apple Store.
The major problem was the poor choice to use a Parallel bus for the SSD drive. This means when Samsung releases their 250 GB Solid State 1.8" SATA drive in Q4, MBA owners will not be able to put one inside their MBA's, even though the form factor is right on.
The battery is the real killer, though. Flying from LAX to MEL takes 16-1/2 hours. It takes 9 hours to fly from ORD to CDG. It takes 9-1/2 hours to fly from SYD to HKG. I'm supposed to travel with a laptop whose battery can't be replaced? Gimme a break, dude.
Unlike Steve, I wasn't given my own private jet, so I need to tote extra batteries to keep working and watch movies ripped to the hard drive - whoops, sorry - with such a tiny drive, I guess ripping DVDs would be out of the question.
Also, I kind of think $1800 for one USB port is a little goofy. Again, the laptop is very cool but I think Apple went overboard on the whole thin thing. I mean, unless we're still in 1995 and laptops are 4-1/2" thick again, I don't think this is a problem anymore.
I'd love to tote a MBA around to local coffee shops and hear the oohs and aahhs. But to head out on the road to do business? Naw, it's just too limited. It's been stripped down way too much. Plus, it still has a 13" screen, and anybody who travels knows that 12" is the perfect size for that seat back tray!
Would you care to show us that info?
He means- It one of the SLOOOOWEST running MACS ever.
And that's not a complaint but a fact.
Admittedly, this is not a speed demon. What's pretty good about todays tech is that a machine that is considered to be slow can still perform a good amount of work.
Haha - fool me once with the iPhone- $200 price drop in less than 3 months!
You don't fool me twice -$500 in in 5 months!!!
No one should ever buy an Apple product anymore, because there's always that chance they might lop off a chunk of the price.
And then, where would all those people who bought at the higher price be?
They would all have worthless products that no longer perform as well as they did when purchased.
What a rip off!
I never said "it shouldn't have been an Air." All I said was that she was a bad shopper. You don't have to have a PHD or be a CPA to realize that anything that gets devalued by 1/6th of its initial cost in 5 months is not a smart purchase. That's double the standard rate of depreciation of a 5 year write down- you do the math. And that goes for any purchase: Apple or otherwise.
That's ridiculous!
Don't try to pretend that you know better. Out of all of Apple's products that are current, two have had their price dropped by a fair amount suddenly.
For you, or anyone, to act as though you have some knowledge that it would have occurred, is nonsense!
To say that your wife is a bad shopper, is equally nonsense.
When you can provide some evidence that you could show that this would happen now, then do so. Otherwise, don't say things like that that have no credence.
I think it's pretty good that Apple has reduced the price like this. If they are getting a good buy on the drives, and cpu's, then they SHOULD drop the price.
Otherwise, you would be complaining that they didn't drop the price when they should have.
Just when are some people going to get over the idea that a company sometimes does this, that there's nothing wrong with it, that they haven't made a bad purchase at the older price, and that they aren't owed anything because of it, unless the company offers a certain period of price protection for their products, which few do?
The Air is one of the lowest selling macs ever.
IMHO, it is worth $799.
That's interesting... the Air has been at or near the top of the best seller list on several Apple Store sites (several countries) for months.
Apple themselves also said the Air helped them make record sales last quarter.
You might want to re-check your info.
http://store.apple.com/us
Scroll down and there is a button where you can switch between countries.
I am a professional and use my Air daily. It has more than paid for its original cost in terms of work done, portability and ease of use. Sorry, but I think it was worth every penny.
As far as many of your other gripes, they don't bother me at all, and I am a road-warrior who works in video and audio production.
So, you may not like the Air, but many people do, it is selling well and that's life.
That's interesting... the Air has been at or near the top of the best seller list on several Apple Store sites (several countries) for months.
The MBA has also been above many other Macs on Amazon and ahead of most other competitor's notebooks, though usually only a single Asus Eee PC for around $300 beating it.
As for Hiimamac's comment that it's worth $799 to him, well that can't be contested. But if he meant that the cost of the machine plus a fair profit for Apple should amount to more no more than $799 for a retail sales price than he would be very wrong indeed.
The MBA has also been above many other Macs on Amazon and ahead of most other competitor's notebooks, usually only an Asus Eee PC for around $300 beating it.
As for Hiimamac's comment that it's worth $799 to him, well that can't be contested. But if he meant that the cost of the machine plus a fair profit for Apple should amount to more no more than $799 for a retail sales price than he would be very wrong indeed.
While he might deny it now that you've given him an out, I don't remember Hiimamac's post stating the it was worth $799 to him, just that it was worth $799, in the sense that it was equal in value to a $799 portable.
While he might deny it now that you've given him an out, I don't remember Hiimamac's post stating the it was worth $799 to him, just that it was worth $799, in the sense that it was equal in value to a $799 portable.
HAHA I guess I have given him an out, but I think most posts on this forum regarding an item being overpriced seem to stem from the poster looking at how the performance, capacity and other such aspects compare to other machines that aren't in the same category. In other words, a limited scope view.
I assume that he most likely compared it to the MacBook as it has the same size display, but then knocked a few hundred dollars off his "worthy" price of the base MB model as it has a slower processor and less capacity HDD. To say it's only worth $799 implies that he has not considered how a 40% lighter notebook with the same size display and keyboard might be more expensive to design and manufacturer, or that there are people who would find the MBA's design a perfect fit.
When the MBA was first announced there was shock that Apple charged $999 for a 64GB 1.8" SSD. Yet a Google Product search at the time presented not one company willing to sell you one for less than that; and most were around double the price. I believe it wasn't until weeks later that Toshiba or another PC manufacturer started offering a 64GB 1.8" SSD option for notebooks for around $750.
We've already seen two makers come out with comparable machines since the MBA's release, with at least one of them using the same HW components, right down to the 2GB RAM max, 80GB HDD or 64GB SSD, and processor/die design. I find it most humourous that these machines cost more than the MBA, yet they came out several months after the MBA and shouldn't be subject to the "Apple tax."
(Note: It's late, I'm tired and my memory could be completely wrong)
HAHA I guess I have given him an out, but I think most posts on this forum regarding an item being overpriced seem to stem from the poster looking at how the performance, capacity and other such aspects compare to other machines that aren't in the same category. In other words, a limited scope view.
I assume that he most likely compared it to the MacBook as it has the same size display, but then knocked a few hundred dollars off his "worthy" price of the base MB model as it has a slower processor and less capacity HDD. To say it's only worth $799 implies that he has not considered how a 40% lighter notebook with the same size display and keyboard might be more expensive to design and manufacturer, or that there are people who would find the MBA's design a perfect fit.
When the MBA was first announced there was shock that Apple charged $999 for a 64GB 1.8" SSD. Yet a Google Product search at the time presented not one company willing to sell you one for less than that; and most were around double the price. I believe it wasn't until weeks later that Toshiba or another PC manufacturer started offering a 64GB 1.8" SSD option for notebooks for around $750.
We've already seen two makers come out with comparable machines since the MBA's release, with at least one of them using the same HW components, right down to the 2GB RAM max, 80GB HDD or 64GB SSD, and processor/die design. I find it most humourous that these machines cost more than the MBA, yet they came out several months after the MBA and shouldn't be subject to the "Apple tax."
(Note: It's late, I'm tired and my memory could be completely wrong)
Also, some people are just angry that a machine they they may want, though they might not admit it, is priced above their budget. when that happens, a number of people will try to find som reason why the machine isn't worth it. It makes them feel better about not affording it.
I never said "it shouldn't have been an Air." All I said was that she was a bad shopper. You don't have to have a PHD or be a CPA to realize that anything that gets devalued by 1/6th of its initial cost in 5 months is not a smart purchase. That's double the standard rate of depreciation of a 5 year write down- you do the math. And that goes for any purchase: Apple or otherwise.
Oh, I get it. You weren't commenting on her at all, just how silly it would be to be buying SSD drives at the moment?
Because it's the drop is price in those that has triggered this particular price drop. Funny way to make that point.
As for not buying anything that loses 1/6th of it's purchase value in five months - I guess you'd disapprove of buying cars or PCs, that sort of thing? Or is it OK, as long as the product is still expensive for other people after five months?
I'm just wondering, to be honest it sounds for all the world like your a bit of a numpty and think you can cleverly talk your way out of/around anything. Could be wrong, just sounds like that to me...
M.