New media patent filing puts Apple closer to touchscreen Macs

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  • Reply 21 of 37
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,687member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BB Sting View Post


    Apple likely won't release an os called OS 11. Steve Jobs has been quoted as saying that OS X could last as long as 20 yrs. Please forgive me, I can't give you the exact quote(I saw it in a youtube video) but Apple will probably release OS X.11 in place of OS 11.



    I thought he said 15.
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  • Reply 22 of 37
    daveyjjdaveyjj Posts: 120member
    I personally have thought that the idea of a touchscreen laptop is a no-brainer that is, without doubt, going to come to pass sooner or later. That is, a laptop with two screens, like the one pictured above, but much like an Apple Air in dimensions etc.



    The iPhone, touch and new slim/flat aluminum Apple keyboards with flat keys are simply training devices for Apple to both train computer users to expect it, know how to deal with it when it comes out, and gather intelligence and feedback as they close in on some final design solutions to this idea.



    People here know the possibilities ... obviously. A standard keyboard when needed on the laptop's bottom screen. Customizable perhaps based on application so that Garage Bands "keyboard" might include other items. The ability to touch and slide components in your keyboard around to accommodate each user's preferences easily, i.e., moving the traditional touch pad from the centre to the right or left side, splitting the keyboard and moving the touchpad up between the two pieces, the ability to save keyboard configurations based on application, sliding letters around into more useable combinations than the standard QWERTY the way you move iPhone app icons around now, etc etc etc. And of course, all of Apple's patented multi-touch gestures available for use and smart typing features ala the touch and iPhone.



    All of these are huge advantages to a screen-based keyboard. I agree though, as an artist and designer, I'd like a small stylus tucked away somewhere too for precise sketching, for example, or at least support for an Apple stylus ($29, sold separately).



    And finally, I agree that there are some disadvantages as people get used to "no tactile feedback" especially. But mark my words, Apple's training us right now and watching us and will move in this direction sooner than later ... I think it's inevitable.
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  • Reply 23 of 37
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,687member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DaveyJJ View Post


    I personally have thought that the idea of a touchscreen laptop is a no-brainer that is, without doubt, going to come to pass sooner or later. That is, a laptop with two screens, like the one pictured above, but much like an Apple Air in dimensions etc.



    The iPhone, touch and new slim/flat aluminum Apple keyboards with flat keys are simply training devices for Apple to both train computer users to expect it, know how to deal with it when it comes out, and gather intelligence and feedback as they close in on some final design solutions to this idea.



    People here know the possibilities ... obviously. A standard keyboard when needed on the laptop's bottom screen. Customizable perhaps based on application so that Garage Bands "keyboard" might include other items. The ability to touch and slide components in your keyboard around to accommodate each user's preferences easily, i.e., moving the traditional touch pad from the centre to the right or left side, splitting the keyboard and moving the touchpad up between the two pieces, the ability to save keyboard configurations based on application, sliding letters around into more useable combinations than the standard QWERTY the way you move iPhone app icons around now, etc etc etc. And of course, all of Apple's patented multi-touch gestures available for use and smart typing features ala the touch and iPhone.



    All of these are huge advantages to a screen-based keyboard. I agree though, as an artist and designer, I'd like a small stylus tucked away somewhere too for precise sketching, for example, or at least support for an Apple stylus ($29, sold separately).



    And finally, I agree that there are some disadvantages as people get used to "no tactile feedback" especially. But mark my words, Apple's training us right now and watching us and will move in this direction sooner than later ... I think it's inevitable.



    What's happening is that every company with an OS, and some without, are looking for the "Next Big Thing" to replace mouse (trackball) and keyboard input.



    But, it's really difficult to do that. For decades, it was said that voice input would be the next step. But, not only has that proven to be much more difficult than was thought, it's also clumsy for anything more than private use.



    Can you imagine an office with those cubbyholes of workers, each one speaking out every command all day long?



    Or doing work on your computer in some public space?



    I can't.



    So, as that seems to fade into the sunset, except for some specialized purposes, something else must take its place.



    So far, a touch screen looks like the most likely result. Possibly, some form of multitouch will work.



    But even this isn't perfect.



    It's also not secret. Everyone's working on their own version.
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  • Reply 24 of 37
    olternautolternaut Posts: 1,376member
    Lets get one thing straight. There is no such thing as a tablet computer until Apple invents it. Whatever the market has out there right now that claims to be a tablet is crap plain and simple. Once again Apple is going to have to define the market for this category of computer device. No, not re-define it.....but to define it from scratch.
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  • Reply 25 of 37
    murphywebmurphyweb Posts: 295member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Olternaut View Post


    Lets get one thing straight. There is no such thing as a tablet computer until Apple invents it. Whatever the market has out there right now that claims to be a tablet is crap plain and simple. Once again Apple is going to have to define the market for this category of computer device. No, not re-define it.....but to define it from scratch.



    Well said.
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  • Reply 26 of 37
    ap780ap780 Posts: 9member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by murphyweb View Post


    Well said.



    I don't think thatbapplw will do touch screen macbooks but many macbookpro but not unroll 2010 I'm guessing august 16 2010
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  • Reply 27 of 37
    ap780ap780 Posts: 9member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by murphyweb View Post


    Well said.



    I don't think thatbapplw will do touch screen macbooks but many macbookpro but not unroll 2010 I'm guessing august 16 2010
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  • Reply 28 of 37
    Having worked in the past for an airline developing controls for glass cockpits for use on touchscreen, I've been thinking of a touch screen keyboard for a few years now. Glad to see some others here are thinking that way too.



    Imagine the flexibility of standard keyboard, piano keyboard, drawing tablet, mouse-pad, all kinds of widgets and applications in any configuration, for improving your interfacing with your Mac.



    I can't see that a touchscreen monitor is anywhere near as good as they're slower to work with and don't really promise as much flexibility as a "touch keyboard" could. A touch screen would be a gimmick, a touch keyboard would be revolutionary.



    Yep . . . I'm looking forward to the "iMac Touch".



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  • Reply 29 of 37
    Marvinmarvin Posts: 15,547moderator
    The trouble with capacitive touch is it won't have pressure sensitivity so it won't be as good as a Wacom for drawing - you also can't use average pens. If it uses pressure, it won't control like an iphone. Perhaps they'd need to develop a best-of-both solution.



    I guess if they somehow measure the the area of contact a finger has, that might be able to simulate pressure but it's not ideal.
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  • Reply 30 of 37
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,687member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


    The trouble with capacitive touch is it won't have pressure sensitivity so it won't be as good as a Wacom for drawing - you also can't use average pens. If it uses pressure, it won't control like an iphone. Perhaps they'd need to develop a best-of-both solution.



    I guess if they somehow measure the the area of contact a finger has, that might be able to simulate pressure but it's not ideal.



    This isn't a major engineering obstacle. It's a matter of cost. I've red discussions about the requirements that would be needed, and how to overcome them.



    If there's a demand, someone will manage it. Perhaps Wacom themselves. I just bought the 9 x 12 Cinteq, and it works great. If it had multitouch as well, perhaps with a switch to change modes, that would be great!
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  • Reply 31 of 37
    olternautolternaut Posts: 1,376member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Rickibird View Post


    Having worked in the past for an airline developing controls for glass cockpits for use on touchscreen, I've been thinking of a touch screen keyboard for a few years now. Glad to see some others here are thinking that way too.



    Imagine the flexibility of standard keyboard, piano keyboard, drawing tablet, mouse-pad, all kinds of widgets and applications in any configuration, for improving your interfacing with your Mac.



    I can't see that a touchscreen monitor is anywhere near as good as they're slower to work with and don't really promise as much flexibility as a "touch keyboard" could. A touch screen would be a gimmick, a touch keyboard would be revolutionary.



    Yep . . . I'm looking forward to the "iMac Touch".







    With one of Apple's patents (I forget which one) it details how the very pixels on the lcd can be made to shift position up and down. That suggest the possibility of a morphing screen. Now imagine your product when turned off or blank is totally flat like any touch surface. Then, when in keyboard mode not only does it display keyboard keys but the pixels underneath them physically raise up so you can actually feel them. And as you press down on them it depresses with a feedback similar or perhaps even surperior to that of a regular keyboard.

    Now consider if custom buttons, shapes, clickwheels, whatever you can imagine, could appear and dissapear at your will! That opens the door to almost unlimited possibilities for both a tablet and the iphones.....the ipods even.
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  • Reply 32 of 37
    xc3llxc3ll Posts: 30member
    With all the fervor about dual lcd screens, people forget to think about two simple obstacles:



    Fingernails and watches.



    Try typing on a table or any other hard, flat surface for over 10 minutes. Your index and middle fingers will hurt like hell after two minutes. There's no way anybody is gonna be doing any significant typing on a hard surface (that's why keys depress inwards) Now you may say that it just takes time to adjust to, and that may be true, but anyone walking into an apple store to try it out isn't gonna take the time to adjust to it. They're gonna try it and say, "ouch, that f***ing hurts" and move on. (as a side note, anyone who has been trained to play the piano correctly would never play it on a tablet cuz it would also hurt like hell--if you wanna try it for yourself, raise your wrists to be parallel with your table and try airpianoing(word?) anything.)



    Now, not everyone wears a watch, but a lot of business people do. Can you imagine the abuse the screen would take from watches, cuff links, dirt on hands, and just dust being wiped across the screen? (Have you ever ran your finger across a dirty car's paint? Well I myself wouldn't but doing so leaves some noticeable scratches in the clear coat.)



    Now, if apple invents a soft, gel like screen that's impervious to scratches and is clear as day, then please, by all means, bring it out. Until that day comes, no thanks.
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  • Reply 33 of 37
    zerfmanzerfman Posts: 43member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by xc3ll View Post


    With all the fervor about dual lcd screens, people forget to think about two simple obstacles:



    Fingernails and watches.



    Try typing on a table or any other hard, flat surface for over 10 minutes. Your index and middle fingers will hurt like hell after two minutes. There's no way anybody is gonna be doing any significant typing on a hard surface (that's why keys depress inwards) Now you may say that it just takes time to adjust to, and that may be true, but anyone walking into an apple store to try it out isn't gonna take the time to adjust to it. They're gonna try it and say, "ouch, that f***ing hurts" and move on. (as a side note, anyone who has been trained to play the piano correctly would never play it on a tablet cuz it would also hurt like hell--if you wanna try it for yourself, raise your wrists to be parallel with your table and try airpianoing(word?) anything.)



    Now, not everyone wears a watch, but a lot of business people do. Can you imagine the abuse the screen would take from watches, cuff links, dirt on hands, and just dust being wiped across the screen? (Have you ever ran your finger across a dirty car's paint? Well I myself wouldn't but doing so leaves some noticeable scratches in the clear coat.)



    Now, if apple invents a soft, gel like screen that's impervious to scratches and is clear as day, then please, by all means, bring it out. Until that day comes, no thanks.



    I disagree, think your just tapping your fingers to hard. i mean even with regular keyboards you are in essence jsut typing on a hard surface. when you press down does your keyboard get all squishy?? plus the touch screen is going to be like solid metal or anything.
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  • Reply 34 of 37
    xc3llxc3ll Posts: 30member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by zerfman View Post


    I disagree, think your just tapping your fingers to hard. i mean even with regular keyboards you are in essence jsut typing on a hard surface. when you press down does your keyboard get all squishy?? plus the touch screen is going to be like solid metal or anything.



    Its going to be glass, like the iPhone. Glass Plane is about the same feel as solid metal. (If you don't trust me, put on a blindfold, and punch a really thick glass pane and then punch a piece of steel. Tell me if you can tell the difference. If it's any consolation, I sure as hell can't. I never did check though. You might wanna double check that. j/k)



    Clarification: The reason why I say you have to punch a really thick glass plane is so that it doesn't break. Because if it does break, you'll probably get all sorts of cuts, and it won't hurt nearly as much!
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  • Reply 35 of 37
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,687member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by xc3ll View Post


    With all the fervor about dual lcd screens, people forget to think about two simple obstacles:



    Fingernails and watches.



    Try typing on a table or any other hard, flat surface for over 10 minutes. Your index and middle fingers will hurt like hell after two minutes. There's no way anybody is gonna be doing any significant typing on a hard surface (that's why keys depress inwards) Now you may say that it just takes time to adjust to, and that may be true, but anyone walking into an apple store to try it out isn't gonna take the time to adjust to it. They're gonna try it and say, "ouch, that f***ing hurts" and move on. (as a side note, anyone who has been trained to play the piano correctly would never play it on a tablet cuz it would also hurt like hell--if you wanna try it for yourself, raise your wrists to be parallel with your table and try airpianoing(word?) anything.)



    Now, not everyone wears a watch, but a lot of business people do. Can you imagine the abuse the screen would take from watches, cuff links, dirt on hands, and just dust being wiped across the screen? (Have you ever ran your finger across a dirty car's paint? Well I myself wouldn't but doing so leaves some noticeable scratches in the clear coat.)



    Now, if apple invents a soft, gel like screen that's impervious to scratches and is clear as day, then please, by all means, bring it out. Until that day comes, no thanks.



    A soft screen would scratch far more than a hard screen. a glass surface would be least scratchworthy.



    Evaporated diamond on plastic is being done. It allows for some flexibility, with mucho hardness, and scratch resistance.



    My moms old typewriter, an ancient Underwood, took almost a pound of pressure to get a key to impress on the paper. I still have that, and have measured it.



    Yet, my mon could type at 90 words a minute, very fast for the day.



    It's what we are used to, and now, we are used to terrible computer keyboards.
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  • Reply 36 of 37
    xc3llxc3ll Posts: 30member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    A soft screen would scratch far more than a hard screen. a glass surface would be least scratchworthy.



    Evaporated diamond on plastic is being done. It allows for some flexibility, with mucho hardness, and scratch resistance.



    My moms old typewriter, an ancient Underwood, took almost a pound of pressure to get a key to impress on the paper. I still have that, and have measured it.



    Yet, my mon could type at 90 words a minute, very fast for the day.



    It's what we are used to, and now, we are used to terrible computer keyboards.



    Yes, a glass surface would be most scratch resistant, but is unpleasant on the fingertips. Evaporated diamond on plastic sounds interesting however, I'll have to do some research on that.



    As for your moms typewriter, those things were much harder to push down on than today's keyboards, but they're still much softer since they give.



    On a side note though, I miss the days of good, solid keyboards. I might have to buy one of those Das Keyboards pretty soon or a old IBM Model 40. (btw, I hate Apple's new keyboard... ug)
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  • Reply 37 of 37
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,687member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by xc3ll View Post


    Yes, a glass surface would be most scratch resistant, but is unpleasant on the fingertips. Evaporated diamond on plastic sounds interesting however, I'll have to do some research on that.



    As for your moms typewriter, those things were much harder to push down on than today's keyboards, but they're still much softer since they give.



    On a side note though, I miss the days of good, solid keyboards. I might have to buy one of those Das Keyboards pretty soon or a old IBM Model 40. (btw, I hate Apple's new keyboard... ug)



    They give all right. The keys must be depressed over one entire inch for them to work. It's a very strange feeling, as your fingers are moving for such a long distance. Very unpleasant, and difficult. Extremely tiring. And the jamming!
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