Why cant iphone record video?

24

Comments

  • Reply 21 of 68
    carniphagecarniphage Posts: 1,984member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by trumptman View Post


    Pretty much every other phone allows video and when you shoot it for a message, it is limited in length and resolution to limit the size of the message. I can send a 15 sec. video message or record for as long as I as I have memory capacity at 640x480.



    They allow you to do this, because they charge you per message. Can you send a video message via free Email?



    If you tried to write a good quality video app you would discover....



    1 The iPhone shoots crappy looking video because of the rolling shutter. It takes 1/10s to pull the image off the sensor. This means iPhone video looks like jello. It always will, it's not fixable without a totally new camera. So if you are interested in quality (as Apple are) you might as well stop there and hold the feature back until the phone includes a better camera.



    2 The lack of hardware compression would limit the clip size to a few seconds. I doubt if the processor is fast enough to compress on the fly. Again, wait for a hardware rev.



    3 Ideally video clips would be placed in a new library application of some kind.

    "You want us to create a new library for jelly video?" This is doable, but not for a third party.



    4 Finally, remember that network operators are used to charging for this crap. They think that sending is 15 second video clip (or making a 2 minute video call) is something they should be able to charge for. They don't want services migrating from pay per use - and all ending up in an unlimited data tariff, So if Apple had implemented it, you can bet the network carriers would immediately ask Apple to un-implement it.



    C.
  • Reply 22 of 68
    mrochestermrochester Posts: 693member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post


    They allow you to do this, because they charge you per message. Can you send a video message via free Email?



    If you tried to write a good quality video app you would discover....



    1 The iPhone shoots crappy looking video because of the rolling shutter. It takes 1/10s to pull the image off the sensor. This means iPhone video looks like jello. It always will, it's not fixable without a totally new camera. So if you are interested in quality (as Apple are) you might as well stop there and hold the feature back until the phone includes a better camera.



    2 The lack of hardware compression would limit the clip size to a few seconds. I doubt if the processor is fast enough to compress on the fly. Again, wait for a hardware rev.



    3 Ideally video clips would be placed in a new library application of some kind.

    "You want us to create a new library for jelly video?" This is doable, but not for a third party.



    4 Finally, remember that network operators are used to charging for this crap. They think that sending is 15 second video clip (or making a 2 minute video call) is something they should be able to charge for. They don't want services migrating from pay per use - and all ending up in an unlimited data tariff, So if Apple had implemented it, you can bet the network carriers would immediately ask Apple to un-implement it.



    C.



    I love point 1 where you're essentially saying Apple are deliberately holding back video capture because they are deliberately holding back putting a decent camera in the iPhone. You're almost suggesting that Apple went to develop video capture only to discover the camera wasn't suitable for the purpose, when it was there choice to put that camera in to begin with!



    And I can imagine the official Apple response being that the iPhone doesn't shoot video because people den't want that in their phones, nevermind the fact that it might actually be because Apple deliberately crippled the phone. This is what bugs me the most - Apple claiming to have authority knowing what people want to mask their deliberate cost and feature cutting.
  • Reply 23 of 68
    carniphagecarniphage Posts: 1,984member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mrochester View Post


    I love point 1 where you're essentially saying Apple are deliberately holding back video capture because they are deliberately holding back putting a decent camera in the iPhone. You're almost suggesting that Apple went to develop video capture only to discover the camera wasn't suitable for the purpose, when it was there choice to put that camera in to begin with!



    And I can imagine the official Apple response being that the iPhone doesn't shoot video because people den't want that in their phones, nevermind the fact that it might actually be because Apple deliberately crippled the phone. This is what bugs me the most - Apple claiming to have authority knowing what people want to mask their deliberate cost and feature cutting.



    Apple included a fairly basic 2MP camera - good enough to shoot Polaroid quality stills.

    It does not have autofocus - and isn't up to to shooting video. That decision was deliberate.



    I am sure if Apple wanted to, it could include a RED1 mysterium sensor to shoot 4K. But there are things called design trade-offs. Some people think that Nokia's huge N95 is a better design because it traded image quality for thickness.



    Given the current hardware is not going to deliver a best-in-class video experience. Apple would be wasting their time to implement it.



    My guess is that the next hardware revision will include video-calling. That feature would need a faster sensor and a video compression chip.



    C.
  • Reply 24 of 68
    mrochestermrochester Posts: 693member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post


    Apple included a fairly basic 2MP camera - good enough to shoot Polaroid quality stills.

    It does not have autofocus - and isn't up to to shooting video. That decision was deliberate.



    I am sure if Apple wanted to, it could include a RED1 mysterium sensor to shoot 4K. But there are things called design trade-offs. Some people think that Nokia's huge N95 is a better design because it traded image quality for thickness.



    Given the current hardware is not going to deliver a best-in-class video experience. Apple would be wasting their time to implement it.



    My guess is that the next hardware revision will include video-calling. That feature would need a faster sensor and a video compression chip.



    C.



    I don't think that excuse washes anymore as there are plenty of decent camera phones as slim as or slimmer than the iPhone.
  • Reply 25 of 68
    carniphagecarniphage Posts: 1,984member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mrochester View Post


    I don't think that excuse washes anymore as there are plenty of decent camera phones as slim as or slimmer than the iPhone.



    Look this is not rocket science.

    Any device has a list of features. You put stuff in, you leave stuff out.

    The price goes up or down.

    The the size goes up or down.

    Each manufacturer makes a bunch of trade offs. Then offers up a product.



    Apple put "camera" way down on their list of priorities. Basically, they didn't think it was that important for their customers.



    I you think Apple got this badly wrong. Then I really really suggest that you don't buy the iPhone. Me, I like shooting video and use a device called a camera, but that's just me.



    The market sorts this stuff out. And if the market actually cares more about cameras than iTunes and web and applications, etc . Then a manufacturer who makes a great cameraphone will certainly do well.





    C.
  • Reply 26 of 68
    mrochestermrochester Posts: 693member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post


    Look this is not rocket science.

    Any device has a list of features. You put stuff in, you leave stuff out.

    The price goes up or down.

    The the size goes up or down.

    Each manufacturer makes a bunch of trade offs. Then offers up a product.



    Apple put "camera" way down on their list of priorities. Basically, they didn't think it was that important for their customers.



    I you think Apple got this badly wrong. Then I really really suggest that you don't buy the iPhone. Me, I like shooting video and use a device called a camera, but that's just me.



    The market sorts this stuff out. And if the market actually cares more about cameras than iTunes and web and applications, etc . Then a manufacturer who makes a great cameraphone will certainly do well.





    C.



    That still doesn't wash though. Other manufacturers have put the same and more into their devices, whilst still being cheaper, so it's not a question of cost at all.



    I was never going to be buying an iPhone anyway so there's no need to beg me not to get one :P.
  • Reply 27 of 68
    carniphagecarniphage Posts: 1,984member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mrochester View Post


    That still doesn't wash though. Other manufacturers have put the same and more into their devices, whilst still being cheaper, so it's not a question of cost at all.



    I was never going to be buying an iPhone anyway so there's no need to beg me not to get one :P.



    Mrochester you are totally right.

    No one is buying the iPhone. No one wants that large screen. No one wants a dreamcast-level GPU. No one wants the longest battery life of any 3G device. No one is prepared to pay for seamless syncing with their media collection.



    All they want is a great upskirt camera like this slimline baby.





    This is the best in class cameraphone SE 850i





    C.
  • Reply 28 of 68
    bergermeisterbergermeister Posts: 6,784member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mrochester View Post


    That still doesn't wash though. Other manufacturers have put the same and more into their devices, whilst still being cheaper, so it's not a question of cost at all.



    I was never going to be buying an iPhone anyway so there's no need to beg me not to get one :P.



    The real power of the iPhone is the apps in the App Store. Perhaps the iPhone doesn't have everything yet, but the developers (4000 odd plus) are working on lots of apps. Maybe one will have video recording, who knows.



    All I know is that I have a powerful mini computer in my pocket and I got some serious work done today with it. Again. And I'm looking forward to the new apps that come available over the next couple of weeks/months.
  • Reply 29 of 68
    mrochestermrochester Posts: 693member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post


    Mrochester you are totally right.

    No one is buying the iPhone. No one wants that large screen. No one wants a dreamcast-level GPU. No one wants the longest battery life of any 3G device. No one is prepared to pay for seamless syncing with their media collection.



    All they want is a great upskirt camera like this slimline baby.





    This is the best in class cameraphone SE 850i





    C.



    Sorry I don't even understand how your post even relates to what I said at all :P. I made the point that other manufacturers offer more for the money. I didn't comment that no one was buying the iPhone...

    And if you think the K850 is the best camera phone then you really don't know what you're talking about :P
  • Reply 30 of 68
    carniphagecarniphage Posts: 1,984member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mrochester View Post


    Sorry I don't even understand how your post even relates to what I said at all :P. I made the point that other manufacturers offer more for the money. I didn't comment that no one was buying the iPhone...

    And if you think the K850 is the best camera phone then you really don't know what you're talking about :P



    What you repeatedly keep saying is:

    "Apple got this wrong". They were mean/silly/ignorant by not making the iPhone a better camera.



    What you don't seem to understand is that all designs are a bunch of compromises and trade offs. Apple's iPhone is like it is because Apple put photography WAY DOWN ON THE LIST.



    Presumably you disagree with that priority list? In your mind a better device would have a better camera. So please - we are all dying to know -which is this better device out there of which you speak?



    C.
  • Reply 31 of 68
    mrochestermrochester Posts: 693member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post


    What you repeatedly keep saying is:

    "Apple got this wrong". They were mean/silly/ignorant by not making the iPhone a better camera.



    What you don't seem to understand is that all designs are a bunch of compromises and trade offs. Apple's iPhone is like it is because Apple put photography WAY DOWN ON THE LIST.



    Presumably you disagree with that priority list? In your mind a better device would have a better camera. So please - we are all dying to know -which is this better device out there of which you speak?



    C.



    The point I'm making is that if other manufacturers can make slim, full touch screen devices with decent cameras and all the other trimmings, it doesn't take a genius to work out Apple are shafting customers somewhere.

    I'm happy for anyone who wants to be taken advantage of to give them their money but I will keep my money until Apple give us a spec we deserve.
  • Reply 32 of 68
    bergermeisterbergermeister Posts: 6,784member
    Apple is not shafting anyone. Customers who don't like the iPhone's cam can choose one of those other phones. The iPhone is selling like hotcakes, however, so it seems like a lot of people don't care about the cam and that Apple's choice was right.



    Give us what we deserve? Wow. That's pretty big. "Want" might be better. Apple is under no obligation to you to make anything.



    I have an iPhone 3G and use it as an ultra-portable computer. It works great. I am a very happy customer.



    As for the cost... The iPhone saves me from lugging around my MBA every day in 95 degree heat. It allows me to jot ideas on an elevator. More than worth 200-odd dollars over two years and a lot better than complaining for a day.
  • Reply 33 of 68
    mrochestermrochester Posts: 693member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post


    Apple is not shafting anyone. Customers who don't like the iPhone's cam can choose one of those other phones. The iPhone is selling like hotcakes, however, so it seems like a lot of people don't care about the cam and that Apple's choice was right.



    Give us what we deserve? Wow. That's pretty big. "Want" might be better. Apple is under no obligation to you to make anything.



    I have an iPhone 3G and use it as an ultra-portable computer. It works great. I am a very happy customer.



    As for the cost... The iPhone saves me from lugging around my MBA every day in 95 degree heat. It allows me to jot ideas on an elevator. More than worth 200-odd dollars over two years and a lot better than complaining for a day.



    Apple is under no obligation to make anything, and if they don't, they simply won't get my money. That's their choice, there are plenty of other fantastic phones out there all after my money. Apple don't make = Apple don't get - no loss to me whatsoever as a consumer since I can pick from a thousand and one other products.



    Anyway, this is distracting from the point. The main explanation is, Apple didn't want the iPhone to record video, so the iPhone doesn't record video. At the end of the day, it's more money in their pocket by not having to spend the resources developing it. End of story.
  • Reply 34 of 68
    bergermeisterbergermeister Posts: 6,784member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mdee4 View Post


    For you guys who want to know whether there is going to be a video recorder for the iphone, there will be. The only reason there won't be one is if Apple denies the app from going in the app store. Someone has submitted a video recorder into the app store already and he is waiting to see if it gets excepted. It might be $10 though. But don't worry Monsterandfriends have created a video recorder app too. He's waiting to see if the other guys gets excepted. It will be free and record in landscape mode with up to 15 fps. That is possibly the max fps you can get from the iphone. The $10 app has faster encoding though which is why you may want that one, but Monsterandfriends app's are always created with good quality so you can know his app will be good. Besides it's free and that is great. I hope I helped.



    If this is true then maybe peace will return to the forums.
  • Reply 35 of 68
    trumptmantrumptman Posts: 16,464member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post


    They allow you to do this, because they charge you per message. Can you send a video message via free Email?



    I think you are talking about some habits created almost exclusively by iPhone usage. I will admit that I haven't tried using my email application on my phone to attach a video. However that is because the size of the video is very large. I think the video I shot of my kiddos little school play was 100 megs. I suppose I could try to email it to myself, but since my Dare allows me to remove the memory, I just pop it into the card reader and copy it over it around 10 seconds.



    Quote:

    If you tried to write a good quality video app you would discover....



    1 The iPhone shoots crappy looking video because of the rolling shutter. It takes 1/10s to pull the image off the sensor. This means iPhone video looks like jello. It always will, it's not fixable without a totally new camera. So if you are interested in quality (as Apple are) you might as well stop there and hold the feature back until the phone includes a better camera.



    2 The lack of hardware compression would limit the clip size to a few seconds. I doubt if the processor is fast enough to compress on the fly. Again, wait for a hardware rev.



    3 Ideally video clips would be placed in a new library application of some kind.

    "You want us to create a new library for jelly video?" This is doable, but not for a third party.



    I really don't care about the hardware limitations of the iPhone. It just underwent a revision. Apple had the ability to improve the hardware. They choose not to and that reasoning has nothing to do with why so many other phones can shoot video and pull it onto the computer.



    Quote:

    4 Finally, remember that network operators are used to charging for this crap. They think that sending is 15 second video clip (or making a 2 minute video call) is something they should be able to charge for. They don't want services migrating from pay per use - and all ending up in an unlimited data tariff, So if Apple had implemented it, you can bet the network carriers would immediately ask Apple to un-implement it.



    Again since the iPhone is so closed up, you keep getting stuck on the network issues, which is quite ironic to me since I cannot buy the iPhone due to the terrible network it happens to be on. Everyone who is not Apple has no problem whipping their memory card out and putting it into the computer to copy over gigabytes if necessary. Most have no problem just attaching the phone either. You are describing Apple specific problems to rationalize away Apple specific problems The reasoning is circular.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post


    What you repeatedly keep saying is:

    "Apple got this wrong". They were mean/silly/ignorant by not making the iPhone a better camera.



    What you don't seem to understand is that all designs are a bunch of compromises and trade offs. Apple's iPhone is like it is because Apple put photography WAY DOWN ON THE LIST.



    Presumably you disagree with that priority list? In your mind a better device would have a better camera. So please - we are all dying to know -which is this better device out there of which you speak?



    C.



    I'll speak of it because I own it. LG Dare. It has the same size battery as the iPhone. It is physically smaller than the iPhone and has a 3.2MP camera with autofocus, flash and will shoot VGA quality video. It is not some brick crushing the iPhone like you show.







    Understand that this doesn't mean the iPhone isn't going to be a great platform, doesn't have a positive future, won't sell well, etc. The thread is about video and you appear to be contending that it simply can't be done. It can. LG Dare has done it in a smaller package on a phone with roughly the same size battery.(1100 mAh, I believe iPhone is either 1100 or 1150)



    It isn't impossible. It is a choice. People have to react to Apple's choices and the answer each time cannot be software either. Some of these design decisions have ramifications. If I feel like the battery life is terrible on my Dare, I can choose to go buy a 1400 mAh extended battery and use it on the phone with a slightly thicker door. I can choose to do that over a three day weekend and put the 1100 back in for the week, etc. If I want to shoot a trillion photos or lots of video, I can bring along additional microSDs and swap them out. I don't need to ponder if the network will let me transfer a gig at a time over email. It exists. It works. It can be done. Stop with the circular reasoning.
  • Reply 36 of 68
    carniphagecarniphage Posts: 1,984member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by trumptman View Post


    I'll speak of it because I own it. LG Dare. It has the same size battery as the iPhone. It is physically smaller than the iPhone and has a 3.2MP camera with autofocus, flash and will shoot VGA quality video. It is not some brick crushing the iPhone like you show.



    The thread is about video and you appear to be contending that it simply can't be done. It can. LG Dare has done it in a smaller package on a phone with roughly the same size battery.(1100 mAh, I believe iPhone is either 1100 or 1150)



    It isn't impossible. It is a choice.



    Exactly!

    It *can* be done. It *is* a choice.



    Apple chose not to do this. Because Apple's priority list was different to LGs.



    Does this mean Apple are SHAFTING THE PUBLIC?



    No. But to be fair, that's the funniest thing I read all day.



    Perhaps Apple got their design priorities wrong. Or perhaps they juggled the design trade-offs and came up with a better product than Sony Ericsson or LG.



    Only the market can decide.



    C.



    Here's an LG Dare Video clip

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/redban/2616840556/
  • Reply 37 of 68
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,478moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post


    Here's an LG Dare Video clip

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/redban/2616840556/



    Here's a video clip taken from an iphone for comparison:



    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38DgduC4J04



    It's hard to tell exactly what the quality is like due to youtube compression but it looks pretty decent nonetheless. As the software improves, they may even be able to improve the quality further.
  • Reply 38 of 68
    carniphagecarniphage Posts: 1,984member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


    Here's a video clip taken from an iphone for comparison:



    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38DgduC4J04



    It's hard to tell exactly what the quality is like due to youtube compression but it looks pretty decent nonetheless. As the software improves, they may even be able to improve the quality further.



    You can buy an HV20 for $500 and shoot in 1080p!



    (Of course it's not great for making calls.)



    C.
  • Reply 39 of 68
    frank777frank777 Posts: 5,832member
    Shouldn't we ask for audio recording before we start asking for video recording?
  • Reply 40 of 68
    bavlondon2bavlondon2 Posts: 694member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post


    You can buy an HV20 for $500 and shoot in 1080p!



    (Of course it's not great for making calls.)



    C.



    Please spare us that same old "if you want good video get a camcorder" rhetoric.



    LG recently launched a mid range cheapo 5Mp cam phone that shoots video at 720 by 480. Mid range!!!!



    Apple have no excuse end of story. They are either very stupid or very stupid to leave out such a useful feature. Pics and video have become an integral to the modern mobile phone user. I suspect the problem is that as its an American company they thought with you guys in mind first. And of course you lot get crap for phones most of the time so Jobs must have thought everyone else didnt use it either.
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