No offense dude, but there have been far too many post of "an Apple rep told me"...
If all those posts were true, there would have been about 1000 Apple reps at MWSF and everyone would have told something else.
I don't buy this crap anymore. Speculation is fine, but saying false things about others isn't really ok anymore.
If you have a theory about future hardware, post it under your own label, and not that of some innocent Apple rep you probably didn't even see, even less have talked to.
And if you did, remember that Apple is a big company. I doubt they'd send their tech staff to MWSF to talk to customers. What you get there is the office dummies and PR people. These people generally don't know shit about what's going on in the labs, because they're not supposed to know.
If a fellow student told me he knew the results of the next test, I'd take that with a seriously big grain of salt...if the headmaster does, it's something else.
JUst wait and see, and speculate on, but do it legally.
[quote] they seem to think they know something about the G5 <hr></blockquote>
Yep. Architosh were the most accurate on pre MacWorld predications and also talking the most sense around. At the time they said in their original article:
[quote] Apple may opt to release new G5's at Macworld Tokyo with adequate supply of dual processor versions at top speeds. Instead, what we may see is a focus on the rumored flat-panel iMac, new i-software (new and updates), the success of Apple's stores and new initiatives and perhaps speed-bumped versions of the TiBook and iBook. And as Moto suggested in a comment yesterday, the G4 may indeed have more life in it yet. Who really knows? <hr></blockquote>
That was pretty much bang on.
From the new article [link in last post]:
[quote] All of this is a matter of timing. As we mentioned in our very first speculation report on the G5, the normal box testing cycle is six months, yet we knew that some testers only had their boxes for about four. We then speculated that the iMac may be the only big deal at the keynote. Waiting affords Apple and Motorola more time to produce volume chips in quantities adequate for dual processors across the entire range (duals: especially if we are talking G4-Apollo machines). <hr></blockquote>
That brings us up to February/ March. This with the existing Power mac / ASD offer running until January 31 2002 does indeed point to MacWorld Tokyo in March as a likely event to bring new models forward. And Architosh have said these could well be G5.
Bear in mind that Architosh have never before posted predictions and that also suggests that they do indeed have some inside info to dish.
Add to the phased release of the new iMac G4 up until March and it looks more likely.
One way or another Apple do have to move on the Power Mac soon. My guess it that they could have done a small speed bump now to increase the specs on the Quicksilver over the iMacs but they chose not to. Points more to the earliest possible release of the G5 or at least a G4 Apollo with HyperTransport etc.
They put forward other convincing points and the article is well worth a read.
Here's what's convinced me that the Apple rep is correct or at least somewhat close:
1) He's actually been around those new G4+ machines and has talked with people working on them (testers). This isn't second-hand information that he's heard something from someone who heard something from someone else who happens to be married to the brother of a friend that works for Steve.
2) Dorsal's post about the G4/G5. Those advanced G4 motherboards have not been released. Why go through all that work for something that was ready six months ago and not use it? He is probably working on the G5 now, but the point is that there is a high-end G4 board for higher end G4 processors out there, and I really belive that Apple will use them.
I know that we all want to believe in G5's at 1.6Ghz. I'm sure they are out there, in fact they are probably in test shops right now. But they are not ready to be released. Frankly I want a computer that works, not some G5 that crashes on me all the time because something is wrong with the machine or chip, etc. A fast G4 that works is much better than any G5 that might work or might not work. I know everyone says that a wintel box could smoke a dual 800, but I work as a motion graphics designer, and so I know that just isn't the case. There was an article in DV magazine that pitted dual 1.7Ghz P4's, dual 1.4Ghz AMD's and dual 800Mhz G4. Guess what? Yes, in some of the tests, the G4 was SLIGHTLY slower (by a couple of seconds), but then in other tests, the G4 was a bit FASTER. Yes, faster than a dual 1.7Ghz P4. Wow, I thought that was impossible you say. Well, it's not. Then in tests with Adobe Premiere, the G4 lagged a little bit behind the Pentiums and AMD's in rendering cross disolves. Who cares? I can use Final Cut Pro 3 now and have that in REAL TIME on my G4. NO RENDERING. So why the heck do I care about a benchmark that uses rendering of cross dissolves and complain that my machine is slower. The point is this. I use a computer SYSTEM. I'm not processor drag racing, seeing who has the FASTEST processor. I want the fastest SYSTEM. And a system means the combination of software, hardware, and periferals. I'm not willing to take the time and swap cards around because I have an IRQ confict on my video editing system. Or some doctor watson crap. I want it to work, and work fast. And the Mac does it all, and much, much, much better than any wintel trash there is out there. Period. You wanna drag race your machine-fine, go by wintel. You wanna do some real work on real deadlines and please your clients, for me the Mac is the best and only way that makes sense (for the money that is. If money were no object I would own a discreet Inferno* and a 24 processor SGI Onyx2. Now THAT's fast).
[quote] Read this page too ... sounds like JYD wrote it.
<hr></blockquote>
He he, I certainly agree with it. G5s are going to light some fires around here. Can't wait to see how they measure up in benchmarks.
Apple just doesn't have any choice on this one...they must produce on the G5s, or else they are doomed. I'm sure Jobs knows this.
As for Apple reps, I talked to one at ChumpUSA, and he told me that Apple tells him nothing about future products. But, this guy had plenty of opinions on what Apple SHOULD do, and he clearly read all the rumor sites, because he knew about the speculation surrounding the LCD iMac and Powermac G5s.
I think the quote at the beginning of this thread sounds bogus, because the guy discredits himself when he starts blabbering about that funky dual chip technology. Sounded like horsesh!t to me.
Multithreading, where one processor can process more than one command at a time. Say you have a 2.2Ghz PIV for some reason, and you're doing a benchmark type thing, the processor might not be fully utilized, especially cuz of the massive amount of pipelines that thing has.
There was an article somewhere that showed that at times a PIV running at 1.7Ghz was only as fast a pentium 200mhz because half of the processor was idle for most of the time. i forget the link but im pretty sure it was a guy who was making mac emulators for the pc. damn my memory sucks
<strong>Got some information from an apple rep today. He said that the G4+ (7460?) would be out by Macworld Tokyo, maybe sooner, and would be a bit above 1Ghz (but not waaayyy over like some are speculating). He said that there wouldn't be any G5 till next year at the earliest. Also that the new machines would still be quicksilvers and may not have DDR memory (but apple is trying as hard as they can to get DDR in them). </strong><hr></blockquote>
This is in synch with what I have been told as well. Sounds quite reasonable, and likely accurate.
"Trying really hard to get DDR in them" -- refering to Apollo machines.
I wish we had some specs on the Apollo from Moto so we'd know whether it supports a faster bus or not. Unless they've tweaked the design they're stuck at 133MHz x 64-bit like the current PowerMacs.
"Multi-threading" is where a program is broken into several "threads" so that it can do multiple things at once. Each thread can run on its own processor, or share a processor with other threads.
"Multi-core" is where on chip contains more than one processor. Thus far there are no such processors, but they have been talked about at length. No details on exactly what would be shared between the processors and what each would have to itself.
"Hyper-threading" (a la Intel) is where there is essentially one processor with two sets of registers. This is similar to multi-core, except that much more of the chip is shared in an attempt to get higher utilization of the execution units. The downside is that if all the threads are using the same execution units, you don't go any faster.
Twinturbo has brought the most modest, resonable and most likely rumor to this forum I have ever heard.
I think we will see Apollo and low 1(1.1-1.2) Ghz Macs within the next six months, before MWNY. I think they will represent and incremental improvement in performance not a revolutionary increase.
I think the G5 Mac is an early to mid 2003 reality.
The Bottom line is that top of the line PPC will *never* match a top of the line x86 proc, *never*. The Mhz myth maybe a myth but x86 proc are getting faster, faster the PPC.
All the talk about pipelines and how the P4 has many more than the P3 disguises the fact that the old 500Mhz G4 had 4 stages and the new G4s have 7! The Mhz myth applies to Apple just as well!</strong><hr></blockquote>
Intel told us the MHz myth, Apple told us the short pipeline fairy tale
In fact it does not only matter how long the pipeline is, but how good it is fed. The 7450 should be faster that a 7400 MHz for MHz in integer tasks, but in fact it slower. Some of those 4 integer units always remain hungry. May be this will be changed by the 7460 with its internal 256 bit bus.
50% more performance at 30% higher clock, not so bad...
Let us not forget that there is a speed race were the bulk of the sales are as well. That is closer to the trailing edge not the leading edge! This is solid iMac and iBook territory were limp ATI graphics and the AltiVecless G3 ruled until this week. The good news is two fold: The new iMac is way better bang for the bucks. The G4 is finaly in the majority of the currently sold Macintoshes and thus giving software enineers a reason to use AltiVec in there apps.
Now it is time to get the towers where they belong, ahead of the iMacs in performance!
"EPL-5800 - A4-skrivare med skrivhastighet 10 sid/min och ett papperskassett för 150 ark. Standard utrustade EPL-5800 kan kopplas till Apple iMac och Apple G3/G4/G5/Cube (O.S 8.1 eller högre) direkt från ur lådan med den så kallade "Quickdraw driver", via USB. Det finns dock inget stöd för PostScript fonter eller"
It's in swedish but it says the the printer EPL-5800 is compatible with Apple iMac och Apple G3/G4/G5/Cube
"EPL-5800 - A4-skrivare med skrivhastighet 10 sid/min och ett papperskassett för 150 ark. Standard utrustade EPL-5800 kan kopplas till Apple iMac och Apple G3/G4/G5/Cube (O.S 8.1 eller högre) direkt från ur lådan med den så kallade "Quickdraw driver", via USB. Det finns dock inget stöd för PostScript fonter eller"
It's in swedish but it says the the printer EPL-5800 is compatible with Apple iMac och Apple G3/G4/G5/Cube</strong><hr></blockquote>
is there any hint that there will be an OS X driver for this Printer? i have one at home and to print i have to use classic. thats ***** !!!! i want a driver.
probably a little OT but thats just because i want to use this EPL-5800L with os x *sniff*
I think another clue to an update at the end of january for the powermacs is something steve said during his keynote.
"starting today, OS X will be the default boot-OS on the products shown here today and they rest of our products by the end of the month."
hmmm.....
What is so difficult about making X the default boot-OS on powermacs now? I mean if the intro of the new powermacs is months off (MWtokyo) why would you wait months to follow through?
When he says that the powermacs will have it default by the end of January leads me to believe there will be a lil "special event" taking place at apple intro the new pro machine.
Comments
If all those posts were true, there would have been about 1000 Apple reps at MWSF and everyone would have told something else.
I don't buy this crap anymore. Speculation is fine, but saying false things about others isn't really ok anymore.
If you have a theory about future hardware, post it under your own label, and not that of some innocent Apple rep you probably didn't even see, even less have talked to.
And if you did, remember that Apple is a big company. I doubt they'd send their tech staff to MWSF to talk to customers. What you get there is the office dummies and PR people. These people generally don't know shit about what's going on in the labs, because they're not supposed to know.
If a fellow student told me he knew the results of the next test, I'd take that with a seriously big grain of salt...if the headmaster does, it's something else.
JUst wait and see, and speculate on, but do it legally.
G-News
<a href="http://www.architosh.com/news/2002-01/2002c-mwsf-postkeynote.phtml"; target="_blank">http://www.architosh.com/news/2002-01/2002c-mwsf-postkeynote.phtml</a>;
<strong>they seem to think they know something about the G5
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Read <a href="http://www.architosh.com/news/2002-01/2002c-0109-fastermacs.phtml"; target="_blank">this page</a> too ... sounds like JYD wrote it.
[Edits: what's up with this UBB code?]
[ 01-10-2002: Message edited by: Nonsuch ]</p>
<strong>they seem to think they know something about the G5
<a href="http://www.architosh.com/news/2002-01/2002c-mwsf-postkeynote.phtml"; target="_blank">http://www.architosh.com/news/2002-01/2002c-mwsf-postkeynote.phtml</a>;
</strong><hr></blockquote>
At least what they said do make sense.
[ Removed pesky overlong URL - Amorph ]
[ 01-11-2002: Message edited by: Amorph ]</p>
Yep. Architosh were the most accurate on pre MacWorld predications and also talking the most sense around. At the time they said in their original article:
[quote] Apple may opt to release new G5's at Macworld Tokyo with adequate supply of dual processor versions at top speeds. Instead, what we may see is a focus on the rumored flat-panel iMac, new i-software (new and updates), the success of Apple's stores and new initiatives and perhaps speed-bumped versions of the TiBook and iBook. And as Moto suggested in a comment yesterday, the G4 may indeed have more life in it yet. Who really knows? <hr></blockquote>
That was pretty much bang on.
From the new article [link in last post]:
[quote] All of this is a matter of timing. As we mentioned in our very first speculation report on the G5, the normal box testing cycle is six months, yet we knew that some testers only had their boxes for about four. We then speculated that the iMac may be the only big deal at the keynote. Waiting affords Apple and Motorola more time to produce volume chips in quantities adequate for dual processors across the entire range (duals: especially if we are talking G4-Apollo machines). <hr></blockquote>
That brings us up to February/ March. This with the existing Power mac / ASD offer running until January 31 2002 does indeed point to MacWorld Tokyo in March as a likely event to bring new models forward. And Architosh have said these could well be G5.
Bear in mind that Architosh have never before posted predictions and that also suggests that they do indeed have some inside info to dish.
Add to the phased release of the new iMac G4 up until March and it looks more likely.
One way or another Apple do have to move on the Power Mac soon. My guess it that they could have done a small speed bump now to increase the specs on the Quicksilver over the iMacs but they chose not to. Points more to the earliest possible release of the G5 or at least a G4 Apollo with HyperTransport etc.
They put forward other convincing points and the article is well worth a read.
moon
1) He's actually been around those new G4+ machines and has talked with people working on them (testers). This isn't second-hand information that he's heard something from someone who heard something from someone else who happens to be married to the brother of a friend that works for Steve.
2) Dorsal's post about the G4/G5. Those advanced G4 motherboards have not been released. Why go through all that work for something that was ready six months ago and not use it? He is probably working on the G5 now, but the point is that there is a high-end G4 board for higher end G4 processors out there, and I really belive that Apple will use them.
I know that we all want to believe in G5's at 1.6Ghz. I'm sure they are out there, in fact they are probably in test shops right now. But they are not ready to be released. Frankly I want a computer that works, not some G5 that crashes on me all the time because something is wrong with the machine or chip, etc. A fast G4 that works is much better than any G5 that might work or might not work. I know everyone says that a wintel box could smoke a dual 800, but I work as a motion graphics designer, and so I know that just isn't the case. There was an article in DV magazine that pitted dual 1.7Ghz P4's, dual 1.4Ghz AMD's and dual 800Mhz G4. Guess what? Yes, in some of the tests, the G4 was SLIGHTLY slower (by a couple of seconds), but then in other tests, the G4 was a bit FASTER. Yes, faster than a dual 1.7Ghz P4. Wow, I thought that was impossible you say. Well, it's not. Then in tests with Adobe Premiere, the G4 lagged a little bit behind the Pentiums and AMD's in rendering cross disolves. Who cares? I can use Final Cut Pro 3 now and have that in REAL TIME on my G4. NO RENDERING. So why the heck do I care about a benchmark that uses rendering of cross dissolves and complain that my machine is slower. The point is this. I use a computer SYSTEM. I'm not processor drag racing, seeing who has the FASTEST processor. I want the fastest SYSTEM. And a system means the combination of software, hardware, and periferals. I'm not willing to take the time and swap cards around because I have an IRQ confict on my video editing system. Or some doctor watson crap. I want it to work, and work fast. And the Mac does it all, and much, much, much better than any wintel trash there is out there. Period. You wanna drag race your machine-fine, go by wintel. You wanna do some real work on real deadlines and please your clients, for me the Mac is the best and only way that makes sense (for the money that is. If money were no object I would own a discreet Inferno* and a 24 processor SGI Onyx2. Now THAT's fast).
<hr></blockquote>
He he, I certainly agree with it. G5s are going to light some fires around here. Can't wait to see how they measure up in benchmarks.
Apple just doesn't have any choice on this one...they must produce on the G5s, or else they are doomed. I'm sure Jobs knows this.
As for Apple reps, I talked to one at ChumpUSA, and he told me that Apple tells him nothing about future products. But, this guy had plenty of opinions on what Apple SHOULD do, and he clearly read all the rumor sites, because he knew about the speculation surrounding the LCD iMac and Powermac G5s.
I think the quote at the beginning of this thread sounds bogus, because the guy discredits himself when he starts blabbering about that funky dual chip technology. Sounded like horsesh!t to me.
There was an article somewhere that showed that at times a PIV running at 1.7Ghz was only as fast a pentium 200mhz because half of the processor was idle for most of the time. i forget the link but im pretty sure it was a guy who was making mac emulators for the pc. damn my memory sucks
<strong>Got some information from an apple rep today. He said that the G4+ (7460?) would be out by Macworld Tokyo, maybe sooner, and would be a bit above 1Ghz (but not waaayyy over like some are speculating). He said that there wouldn't be any G5 till next year at the earliest. Also that the new machines would still be quicksilvers and may not have DDR memory (but apple is trying as hard as they can to get DDR in them). </strong><hr></blockquote>
This is in synch with what I have been told as well. Sounds quite reasonable, and likely accurate.
I wish we had some specs on the Apollo from Moto so we'd know whether it supports a faster bus or not. Unless they've tweaked the design they're stuck at 133MHz x 64-bit like the current PowerMacs.
"Multi-threading" is where a program is broken into several "threads" so that it can do multiple things at once. Each thread can run on its own processor, or share a processor with other threads.
"Multi-core" is where on chip contains more than one processor. Thus far there are no such processors, but they have been talked about at length. No details on exactly what would be shared between the processors and what each would have to itself.
"Hyper-threading" (a la Intel) is where there is essentially one processor with two sets of registers. This is similar to multi-core, except that much more of the chip is shared in an attempt to get higher utilization of the execution units. The downside is that if all the threads are using the same execution units, you don't go any faster.
<strong>Wow!
Twinturbo has brought the most modest, resonable and most likely rumor to this forum I have ever heard.
I think we will see Apollo and low 1(1.1-1.2) Ghz Macs within the next six months, before MWNY. I think they will represent and incremental improvement in performance not a revolutionary increase.
I think the G5 Mac is an early to mid 2003 reality.
The Bottom line is that top of the line PPC will *never* match a top of the line x86 proc, *never*. The Mhz myth maybe a myth but x86 proc are getting faster, faster the PPC.
All the talk about pipelines and how the P4 has many more than the P3 disguises the fact that the old 500Mhz G4 had 4 stages and the new G4s have 7! The Mhz myth applies to Apple just as well!</strong><hr></blockquote>
Intel told us the MHz myth, Apple told us the short pipeline fairy tale
In fact it does not only matter how long the pipeline is, but how good it is fed. The 7450 should be faster that a 7400 MHz for MHz in integer tasks, but in fact it slower. Some of those 4 integer units always remain hungry. May be this will be changed by the 7460 with its internal 256 bit bus.
50% more performance at 30% higher clock, not so bad...
Now it is time to get the towers where they belong, ahead of the iMacs in performance!
"EPL-5800 - A4-skrivare med skrivhastighet 10 sid/min och ett papperskassett för 150 ark. Standard utrustade EPL-5800 kan kopplas till Apple iMac och Apple G3/G4/G5/Cube (O.S 8.1 eller högre) direkt från ur lådan med den så kallade "Quickdraw driver", via USB. Det finns dock inget stöd för PostScript fonter eller"
It's in swedish but it says the the printer EPL-5800 is compatible with Apple iMac och Apple G3/G4/G5/Cube
<strong>Maybe this is in anohter thread too but the swedish epsonsite ( <a href="http://www.epson.se/products/printers/lasers/epl5800/)" target="_blank">http://www.epson.se/products/printers/lasers/epl5800/)</a>
"EPL-5800 - A4-skrivare med skrivhastighet 10 sid/min och ett papperskassett för 150 ark. Standard utrustade EPL-5800 kan kopplas till Apple iMac och Apple G3/G4/G5/Cube (O.S 8.1 eller högre) direkt från ur lådan med den så kallade "Quickdraw driver", via USB. Det finns dock inget stöd för PostScript fonter eller"
It's in swedish but it says the the printer EPL-5800 is compatible with Apple iMac och Apple G3/G4/G5/Cube</strong><hr></blockquote>
is there any hint that there will be an OS X driver for this Printer? i have one at home and to print i have to use classic. thats ***** !!!! i want a driver.
probably a little OT but thats just because i want to use this EPL-5800L with os x *sniff*
[ 01-11-2002: Message edited by: Krassy ]</p>
Apollo is a smokescreen.
<strong>Whatever Apple Rep you're talking about, is full of shit.
Apollo is a smokescreen.</strong><hr></blockquote>
What I'm hearing from my Apple "source" is not based on Apollo more like a little golden fishy.
Maybe Moki is an Apple plant...
"starting today, OS X will be the default boot-OS on the products shown here today and they rest of our products by the end of the month."
hmmm.....
What is so difficult about making X the default boot-OS on powermacs now? I mean if the intro of the new powermacs is months off (MWtokyo) why would you wait months to follow through?
When he says that the powermacs will have it default by the end of January leads me to believe there will be a lil "special event" taking place at apple intro the new pro machine.
<strong>
May be this will be changed by the 7460 with its internal 256 bit bus.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
The funny thing is, according to the tech docs on Moto's website, the PPC7450/1 and 7440/1 models already have that internal 256 bit wide bus to L2.
Bye,
RazzFazz