Sticking all your eggs into one (GPU) basket seems like a bad thing to do. Particularly with increased competition from both AMD(ATI) and Intel in that area, and with people increasingly buying laptops with on-board graphics.
Regarding OBG:
Just because everyone else is doing it, that doesn't make it right.
I guess my comments in the previous nVidia thread that nVidia's chipset silence is likely the result of redeployment of engineers to support the GPU department rather than a grand secret partnership with Apple was closer to the truth than I thought.
And for people who think that Apple will license nVidia technologies and develop it further, what's the point? The reason nVidia is considering pulling back is that Intel hasn't granted them a license to Quickpath so none of their chipsets will work with upcoming Nehalem processors. In other words their current FSB chipsets have a lifespan of a year at most. We would Apple waste their time licensing dead-end technologies? Even if nVidia or Apple got a Quickpath license they will have to redevelop their new chipsets for the different interconnect, so it will all take time.
Plus, while high-end Nehalems will use Quickpath to a Northbridge, mainstream Nehalems actually won't use Quickpath at all. Instead mainstream Nehalems already incorporate an integrated memory controller, an IGP, and PCIe 2.0 x16 links for graphics cards thereby eliminating the need for a northbridge. Instead they will only have a DMI link to the southbridge. So even licensing Quickpath will only address they high-end of the market. nVidia or Apple will need to license DMI too, to address the majority of Intel's processor line.
This is why my response to suggestions of custom Apple chipset logic is that it'll probably be limited to southbridge development if it does occur. Because southbridges will always connect over DMI, so any southbridge developed with DMI will be able to connect to current FSB northbridges, future Quickpath northbridges, and connect to future mainstream Nehalems directly. This way development costs can be spread out. Northbridges are more performance sensitive anyways, so it makes sense to let Intel develop so they can optimize it to the processor.
Good! I was going to post pretty much the same thing, so you saved me a bunch of typing.
- It's pretty well known that PA Semi has engineers at Nvidia
Really? Who are the people who "pretty much" know this? Can you mention the names of any of those people?
Quote:
- Apples numbers show a huge "product transition" expense next quarter... the first of it's kind and very, very large, obviously an acquisition of some kind.
Is it that obvious? Why would a product transition indicate to you a corporate purchase?
Quote:
- If Apple doesn't adopt Montevina it must obtain an alternate video chip, Nvidia is by far the most likely supplier.
- Apple would lock down a supplier of this importance. Apple isn't going to be painted into a corner by having their chip supplier flaking out.
It's just a rumor. We don't know if Apple is going to do this.
What if... this AND the previous rumours were TRUE.
Nvidia is bowing out of the chipset business. Apparently.
Apple may be using Nvidia chipsets.
Apple and Nvidia is silent on the matter.
As suggested before, this could mean...
Nvidia is exclusively making chipsets for Apple. Desktop to portable to ultraportable to mobile.
Chipsets and sexy GPUs and "one more thing...". Yeahhhh
Seriously though, Nvidia exiting the chipset business has to be total rubbish. They'd be totally screwed. Who's going to push SLI for them? Intel? While SLI is not Nvidia's core business, it is part of its core marketing strategy. You start to see SLI boards diminish, Nvidia better have a bloody good replacement strategy for that gap in its sales.
In many ways, a P A Semi motherboard controlled by Apple would be much better than one from nVidia. Instead of Apple coming up with ways to fit a computer around a 'standard' motherboard, they can just design their own. They can find ways to support SLI or whatever they want and also optimize the connection between GPU and CPU, which is needed in hardware as well as software.
Since it's not really feasible for them to make their own integrated graphics chips, this leaves them with the only option of using dedicated chips but they'd want to do this easily - all they need is an open standard MXM slot.
This way they can use the same MXM GPUs in the iMac, Macbook Pro, Mini and Macbook. This gives more options for BTO as they can sell the Macbooks with a low end or high end MXM chip and similarly the MBP. No need to make two boards, just pull out the MXM chip and put in a cheaper one - MXM was designed to reduce costs for the manufacturer not allow consumers to upgrade chips.
Look at the GPU options you get on the iMac but none on the laptops or Mini even though they are all laptops. Only the iMac uses an MXM slot. Using one set of chips in them all means that they can reduce costs across the entire lineup and the low end suddenly becomes more powerful.
If they use Intel CPUs, a P A Semi mobo (controlled by them) and either nvidia or ATI dedicated cards (not sure if ATI works with MXM though), it's a win all round.
The best CPUs, the best GPUs, stable, custom-built motherboards designed to get the best performance out of both and fit into whatever funky design Apple decides to make. And for free they get protection of their computers as you simply couldn't run OS X on anything without those boards - nVidia boards could be bought by anyone.
Not to mention, custom boards would be the best way to add on custom P A Semi chips for handling specialized processing tasks and this would most certainly make them competitive with other computer manufacturers. Perhaps this is why they've been delaying Blu-Ray, if they've got custom chipsets, they maybe want to make sure hardware decoding (possibly encoding, which would be incredible) works correctly.
If they could handle real-time Blu-Ray encoding, that would be well worth waiting for. Final Cut/Compressor is sooooo slow at encoding movies. Even DVDs can take 3-4 hours.
MXM cards will need EFI roms just like the mac pro pci-e cards and heat sinks and cooling also a big thing with mxm
I honestly cannot really remember making that post below.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008
What if... this AND the previous rumours were TRUE.
Nvidia is bowing out of the chipset business. Apparently.
Apple may be using Nvidia chipsets.
Apple and Nvidia is silent on the matter.
As suggested before, this could mean...
Nvidia is exclusively making chipsets for Apple. Desktop to portable to ultraportable to mobile.
Chipsets and sexy GPUs and "one more thing...". Yeahhhh
Seriously though, Nvidia exiting the chipset business has to be total rubbish. They'd be totally screwed. Who's going to push SLI for them? Intel? While SLI is not Nvidia's core business, it is part of its core marketing strategy. You start to see SLI boards diminish, Nvidia better have a bloody good replacement strategy for that gap in its sales.
Comments
Sticking all your eggs into one (GPU) basket seems like a bad thing to do. Particularly with increased competition from both AMD(ATI) and Intel in that area, and with people increasingly buying laptops with on-board graphics.
Regarding OBG:
Just because everyone else is doing it, that doesn't make it right.
1) Apple's PA Semi acquisition is about new processors for iPods and nothing else
2) Nvidia is staying in the chipset biz, although they will be surrendering the high-end for at least the next year
3) Which doesn't matter to anyone here because there's no way in hell Apple will stop using Intel chipsets
good time for apple to acquire NVIDIA? but i know nothing so....
No no no no no!
Nonsense. The platform for Bloomfield will have SLI support with Intel chipsets.
/Adrian
According to Anandtech and at least one other site that I remember reading, Intel's SLI support isn't as good as Nvidia's.
http://forums.appleinsider.com/showp...8&postcount=40
I guess my comments in the previous nVidia thread that nVidia's chipset silence is likely the result of redeployment of engineers to support the GPU department rather than a grand secret partnership with Apple was closer to the truth than I thought.
And for people who think that Apple will license nVidia technologies and develop it further, what's the point? The reason nVidia is considering pulling back is that Intel hasn't granted them a license to Quickpath so none of their chipsets will work with upcoming Nehalem processors. In other words their current FSB chipsets have a lifespan of a year at most. We would Apple waste their time licensing dead-end technologies? Even if nVidia or Apple got a Quickpath license they will have to redevelop their new chipsets for the different interconnect, so it will all take time.
Plus, while high-end Nehalems will use Quickpath to a Northbridge, mainstream Nehalems actually won't use Quickpath at all. Instead mainstream Nehalems already incorporate an integrated memory controller, an IGP, and PCIe 2.0 x16 links for graphics cards thereby eliminating the need for a northbridge. Instead they will only have a DMI link to the southbridge. So even licensing Quickpath will only address they high-end of the market. nVidia or Apple will need to license DMI too, to address the majority of Intel's processor line.
This is why my response to suggestions of custom Apple chipset logic is that it'll probably be limited to southbridge development if it does occur. Because southbridges will always connect over DMI, so any southbridge developed with DMI will be able to connect to current FSB northbridges, future Quickpath northbridges, and connect to future mainstream Nehalems directly. This way development costs can be spread out. Northbridges are more performance sensitive anyways, so it makes sense to let Intel develop so they can optimize it to the processor.
Good! I was going to post pretty much the same thing, so you saved me a bunch of typing.
Guys, the digitimes report may be false:
http://blogs.barrons.com/techtraderd...rrect-updated/
K
I still love it when one rumor requires another to even look credible.
FWIW Department...
- It's pretty well known that PA Semi has engineers at Nvidia
Really? Who are the people who "pretty much" know this? Can you mention the names of any of those people?
- Apples numbers show a huge "product transition" expense next quarter... the first of it's kind and very, very large, obviously an acquisition of some kind.
Is it that obvious? Why would a product transition indicate to you a corporate purchase?
- If Apple doesn't adopt Montevina it must obtain an alternate video chip, Nvidia is by far the most likely supplier.
- Apple would lock down a supplier of this importance. Apple isn't going to be painted into a corner by having their chip supplier flaking out.
It's just a rumor. We don't know if Apple is going to do this.
What if... this AND the previous rumours were TRUE.
Nvidia is bowing out of the chipset business. Apparently.
Apple may be using Nvidia chipsets.
Apple and Nvidia is silent on the matter.
As suggested before, this could mean...
Nvidia is exclusively making chipsets for Apple. Desktop to portable to ultraportable to mobile.
Chipsets and sexy GPUs and "one more thing...". Yeahhhh
Seriously though, Nvidia exiting the chipset business has to be total rubbish. They'd be totally screwed. Who's going to push SLI for them? Intel? While SLI is not Nvidia's core business, it is part of its core marketing strategy. You start to see SLI boards diminish, Nvidia better have a bloody good replacement strategy for that gap in its sales.
What a horrible idea!
In many ways, a P A Semi motherboard controlled by Apple would be much better than one from nVidia. Instead of Apple coming up with ways to fit a computer around a 'standard' motherboard, they can just design their own. They can find ways to support SLI or whatever they want and also optimize the connection between GPU and CPU, which is needed in hardware as well as software.
Since it's not really feasible for them to make their own integrated graphics chips, this leaves them with the only option of using dedicated chips but they'd want to do this easily - all they need is an open standard MXM slot.
This way they can use the same MXM GPUs in the iMac, Macbook Pro, Mini and Macbook. This gives more options for BTO as they can sell the Macbooks with a low end or high end MXM chip and similarly the MBP. No need to make two boards, just pull out the MXM chip and put in a cheaper one - MXM was designed to reduce costs for the manufacturer not allow consumers to upgrade chips.
Look at the GPU options you get on the iMac but none on the laptops or Mini even though they are all laptops. Only the iMac uses an MXM slot. Using one set of chips in them all means that they can reduce costs across the entire lineup and the low end suddenly becomes more powerful.
If they use Intel CPUs, a P A Semi mobo (controlled by them) and either nvidia or ATI dedicated cards (not sure if ATI works with MXM though), it's a win all round.
The best CPUs, the best GPUs, stable, custom-built motherboards designed to get the best performance out of both and fit into whatever funky design Apple decides to make. And for free they get protection of their computers as you simply couldn't run OS X on anything without those boards - nVidia boards could be bought by anyone.
Not to mention, custom boards would be the best way to add on custom P A Semi chips for handling specialized processing tasks and this would most certainly make them competitive with other computer manufacturers. Perhaps this is why they've been delaying Blu-Ray, if they've got custom chipsets, they maybe want to make sure hardware decoding (possibly encoding, which would be incredible) works correctly.
If they could handle real-time Blu-Ray encoding, that would be well worth waiting for. Final Cut/Compressor is sooooo slow at encoding movies. Even DVDs can take 3-4 hours.
MXM cards will need EFI roms just like the mac pro pci-e cards and heat sinks and cooling also a big thing with mxm
What a horrible idea!
I honestly cannot really remember making that post below.
What if... this AND the previous rumours were TRUE.
Nvidia is bowing out of the chipset business. Apparently.
Apple may be using Nvidia chipsets.
Apple and Nvidia is silent on the matter.
As suggested before, this could mean...
Nvidia is exclusively making chipsets for Apple. Desktop to portable to ultraportable to mobile.
Chipsets and sexy GPUs and "one more thing...". Yeahhhh
Seriously though, Nvidia exiting the chipset business has to be total rubbish. They'd be totally screwed. Who's going to push SLI for them? Intel? While SLI is not Nvidia's core business, it is part of its core marketing strategy. You start to see SLI boards diminish, Nvidia better have a bloody good replacement strategy for that gap in its sales.