I think India will be bigger than some of you think. I do a lot of work over there (I work with a US based tech company), and the pay for skilled and educated workers is going up 15 - 20 % annually, and this has been going on for at least the last 5 years. There are many folks who can afford this, especially those who are 1st level managers or higher - they make good money and are the target for the iPhone. Sure, there are millions of poor, but there are millions of middle to upper class too.
dofo
India will be interesting. There is currently no Hindi localization, let alone Bengali or other more local dialects, setting in iPhone OS 2.0.1, which makes me wonder if iPhone OS 2.0.2 is just around the corner or if they will get either an English phone or a special release. Even so, I doubt many of the apps on the App Store will be localized for that market. Since the phone is already selling in Hong Kong, the Chinese setting is covered.
India will be interesting. There is currently no Hindi localization, let alone Bengali or other more local dialects, setting in iPhone OS 2.0.1, which makes me wonder if iPhone OS 2.0.2 is just around the corner or if they will get either an English phone or a special release. Even so, I doubt many of the apps on the App Store will be localized for that market. Since the phone is already selling in Hong Kong, the Chinese setting is covered.
I'm thinking it's not a high priority for Apple. After all, English is one of the official languages of India and likely spoken*/read by anyone who could possibly afford an iPhone.
* Spoken English in India as a second language is questionable as a dialect or a separate spoken language for a couple reasons. One is that India-based languages are spelled phonetically using the English alphabet thus avoiding many of the borrowed or special forms of words so they often don't sound anything like the English that Westerners speak. The other is that it's often mixed with the many of the common first languages of the region to form variants that make it even more difficult for foreigners to understand.
One bad phone compared with tens of MILLIONS sold, and the #1 phone maker in the world. I think Nokia is safe and can afford to no longer have you as a customer. Just my opinion. Enjoy your iPhone.
well you can take your one in millions quote and change it to FIVE in millions as all 4 of my nokia phones have fallen apart in under 18 months use.
Apple gets customers to buy replace products every 2 years by continually improving the product. It seems nokia's strategy is to design disposable products that break and need to be replaced every 2 years.
You can come to Finland and get all the iPhones you want. Sonera is calling people to ask them if they would like one. For the most part the iPhone with its locked to the operator plan has not been that successful. Some people are even returning unopened iPhone boxes to get their money back because Finns simply will not pay full price for something that they can not do with what they will.
Hmmm... maybe someone will write an iPhone app that teaches Tango.
LOL. The numbers of nouveau rich in developing countries... are huge. Also as a previous poster mentioned, remember many of the developing economies have poorer financial accounting control (though when considering the US system... )
If you know how the target the right crowd in the developing economies you can be successful. Target the wrong crowd, and one will not be successful.
Let's just say the iPhone 3G is going to be very successful.
The question is if the poor countries will buy more phones than the richer countries. And the answer is no. Yes there are wealthy people in India and China but most people are very poor by western standards.
Also people in the west are more likely to buy for reasons such as fashion and hype, people in poorer countries are more likely to be look at what they need. Mobile data access is less available in these countries and the an important differentiator of the iPhone is the internet experience.
So yes, India and China have huge populations and one day they will be a huge market, but not right now. If they were that important, Apple would have released the iPhone there in the first wave.
Still not a bad number. Enjoy your iPhone. Thanks for stopping by,
that's your rebuttal?
i think you missed my sarcasm ... i have a 100% failure rate on all 4 nokia phones ... i expect advanced electronics gadgets to last the minimum 2 years ... why should we settle for less?
what if our other mobile tools only lasted 18 months? what would the outcry be like if our macbooks fell apart after 18 months? or what if your car fell apart after 18 months?
i think you missed my sarcasm ... i have a 100% failure rate on all 4 nokia phones ... i expect advanced electronics gadgets to last the minimum 2 years ... why should we settle for less?
what if our other mobile tools only lasted 18 months? what would the outcry be like if our macbooks fell apart after 18 months? or what if your car fell apart after 18 months?
You're missing the point.
The point is, if your experience was anywhere near the norm, Nokia wouldn't sell as many phones as they do and have such a good reputation. So while your experience sucks, it is not valuable to extend it to a larger number and thus not worth crying about here. If there's anywhere that it is of interest, it would be you contacting Nokia directly to get compensated for faulty phones.
The point is, if your experience was anywhere near the norm, Nokia wouldn't sell as many phones as they do and have such a good reputation. So while your experience sucks, it is not valuable to extend it to a larger number and thus not worth crying about here. If there's anywhere that it is of interest, it would be you contacting Nokia directly to get compensated for faulty phones.
I could not have said it better myself. I have used Nokia's since the 2110i, or about 12 years and for the most part they have been reliable phones that performed well. Not to mention always on the cutting edge. From a technical standpoint, the N96 completely smokes the iPhone in terms of innovation. The iPhone has a strong portfolio of features but feature for feature the Nokia wins. Anyway, if you are having such problems, why would you go back for 3 more times? This does not makes sense. Maybe you, and this is a guess, might have had something to do with the phones failing. Obviously Nokia would not be #1 in the world if they had such a failure rate as you describe. Well, you have your iPhone now so be happy.
Yeah, I had maybe 5-6 Nokia phones from 2001 until I got the iPhone last August. Loved them, but eventually I found myself limited by the screen, by the email configuration hassles, and by headset malfunctions that drove me nuts in the end. The ability to podcast my favorite radio shows finally put the nail in the coffin of my favorite Nokia feature - the FM radio. Now on my second iPhone, sometimes I do miss the simple, tiny Nokia candybar phone, but the additional features make those nostalgic moments very quick.
Yeah, I had maybe 5-6 Nokia phones from 2001 until I got the iPhone last August. Loved them, but eventually I found myself limited by the screen, by the email configuration hassles, and by headset malfunctions that drove me nuts in the end. The ability to podcast my favorite radio shows finally put the nail in the coffin of my favorite Nokia feature - the FM radio. Now on my second iPhone, sometimes I do miss the simple, tiny Nokia candybar phone, but the additional features make those nostalgic moments very quick.
I've owned several Nokia phones and the main reason I bought them was the diminutive size and good features for the size. But as you say the screens are very small and they keyboards are pretty frustrating for text and navigation. Also my current Nokia has a really bad Bluetooth problem which Nokia has not fixed in over a year (and several firmware updates) which has really turned me off.
I didn't think I'd buy an iPhone but now I'm leaning that way. The issue is size for me but looking at my current Nokia 6120c it's only about 15mm narrower while being about 3mm thicker than the iPhone. If I buy an iPhone it's much more likely I'll use applications and the internet while on the Nokia that just doesn't happen in practice.
What I'd really like someone to do is to bring out a basic, genuinely small mobile phone. A very thin one with no camera, no internet, no 3G. Yes I know Samsung has a thin phone but that's altogether too large. I'd like something the size of my credit cards and not much thicker. That would be a great compliment to the bulky iPhone.
What I'd really like someone to do is to bring out a basic, genuinely small mobile phone. A very thin one with no camera, no internet, no 3G. Yes I know Samsung has a thin phone but that's altogether too large. I'd like something the size of my credit cards and not much thicker. That would be a great compliment to the bulky iPhone.
iPhone Nano?
Who knows, they successfully marketed the iPod shuffle as "not enough to be your primary media player, but great to take on the road and beat up"... maybe they are thinking about doing the same thing with phones? The key to avoid peoples' displeasure is keeping the expectations low, that the Nano would be only designed to be a secondary device.
Who knows, they successfully marketed the iPod shuffle as "not enough to be your primary media player, but great to take on the road and beat up"... maybe they are thinking about doing the same thing with phones? The key to avoid peoples' displeasure is keeping the expectations low, that the Nano would be only designed to be a secondary device.
It's quite possible Apple will wade into the market one day. Once they have established themselves as a phone manufacturer and saturate the "smartphone" market, they may go looking for the rest of the premium market with a phone sans video and internet.
It's quite possible Apple will wade into the market one day. Once they have established themselves as a phone manufacturer and saturate the "smartphone" market, they may go looking for the rest of the premium market with a phone sans video and internet.
Though it would be nice for a some to consolidate one's PMP and simple cellphone into one device made by Apple I'm wagering that they won't go this route. I'd compare it to the budget computer market that Apple doesn't want to get into. There just isn't much Apple can offer with a cellphone that had a physical number pad and no internet or video.
Even the Nano has video, albeit on a small screen. Even the App Store becomes a no go with no internet, but the smaller screen with lower resolutions would require a rewrite to apps that developers may not contend with so Apple would have to have a separate store for compatible apps if they were to include them and I don't think Apple will do that either.
I think this iteration of WiFi, UMTS, Safari and the App Store will be in the foundation of every iPhone to come. Meaning, Apple may release a simpler version in the future compared to the falgship model but it will have at least those features to make it a truely internet capable device.
It's quite possible Apple will wade into the market one day. Once they have established themselves as a phone manufacturer and saturate the "smartphone" market, they may go looking for the rest of the premium market with a phone sans video and internet.
Hi Merdhead,
Have you taken a look at the Nokia N82? I have to say that to date it is probably the best phone I have used by them. There is also the E71 but I am not sure if it released in the US. It is pretty good and my friend's company is about to switch from the Communicator to the E71. I played with one the other day and it is not bad. If I did not have the N82, I would consider the E71. Go to www.nokia.co.uk to check it out.
Though it would be nice for a some to consolidate one's PMP and simple cellphone into one device made by Apple I'm wagering that they won't go this route. I'd compare it to the budget computer market that Apple doesn't want to get into. There just isn't much Apple can offer with a cellphone that had a physical number pad and no internet or video.
Even the Nano has video, albeit on a small screen. Even the App Store becomes a no go with no internet, but the smaller screen with lower resolutions would require a rewrite to apps that developers may not contend with so Apple would have to have a separate store for compatible apps if they were to include them and I don't think Apple will do that either.
I think this iteration of WiFi, UMTS, Safari and the App Store will be in the foundation of every iPhone to come. Meaning, Apple may release a simpler version in the future compared to the falgship model but it will have at least those features to make it a truely internet capable device.
This is the view I had, but I think the comparison to make would be with the Shuffle. What did that provide in terms of the Apple experience or iPod features, especially the first iteration? I think maybe they could have video on a smaller iPhone, the screen wouldn't be that small I guess.
If Apple sales growth starts levelling off the I think they will go after new markets. Do you think they would just sit there in that situation? And I'm not suggesting they will plumb the low end. They can have a conventional phone with great design and sell it as a premium product and still do well against the established players, just as they did with the Shuffle and with the Nano to a lesser extent. Also look at the MacBook, which is that consumer laptop you talk about, but at the premium end. But as I said all this is a couple of years off at the earliest.
Have you taken a look at the Nokia N82? I have to say that to date it is probably the best phone I have used by them. There is also the E71 but I am not sure if it released in the US. It is pretty good and my friend's company is about to switch from the Communicator to the E71. I played with one the other day and it is not bad. If I did not have the N82, I would consider the E71. Go to www.nokia.co.uk to check it out.
I don't like the N82. Too big, doesn't do enough bands. I'm over Nokia. The 6120c is my last Nokia phone.
Comments
I think India will be bigger than some of you think. I do a lot of work over there (I work with a US based tech company), and the pay for skilled and educated workers is going up 15 - 20 % annually, and this has been going on for at least the last 5 years. There are many folks who can afford this, especially those who are 1st level managers or higher - they make good money and are the target for the iPhone. Sure, there are millions of poor, but there are millions of middle to upper class too.
dofo
India will be interesting. There is currently no Hindi localization, let alone Bengali or other more local dialects, setting in iPhone OS 2.0.1, which makes me wonder if iPhone OS 2.0.2 is just around the corner or if they will get either an English phone or a special release. Even so, I doubt many of the apps on the App Store will be localized for that market. Since the phone is already selling in Hong Kong, the Chinese setting is covered.
India will be interesting. There is currently no Hindi localization, let alone Bengali or other more local dialects, setting in iPhone OS 2.0.1, which makes me wonder if iPhone OS 2.0.2 is just around the corner or if they will get either an English phone or a special release. Even so, I doubt many of the apps on the App Store will be localized for that market. Since the phone is already selling in Hong Kong, the Chinese setting is covered.
I'm thinking it's not a high priority for Apple. After all, English is one of the official languages of India and likely spoken*/read by anyone who could possibly afford an iPhone.
* Spoken English in India as a second language is questionable as a dialect or a separate spoken language for a couple reasons. One is that India-based languages are spelled phonetically using the English alphabet thus avoiding many of the borrowed or special forms of words so they often don't sound anything like the English that Westerners speak. The other is that it's often mixed with the many of the common first languages of the region to form variants that make it even more difficult for foreigners to understand.
One bad phone compared with tens of MILLIONS sold, and the #1 phone maker in the world. I think Nokia is safe and can afford to no longer have you as a customer. Just my opinion. Enjoy your iPhone.
well you can take your one in millions quote and change it to FIVE in millions as all 4 of my nokia phones have fallen apart in under 18 months use.
Apple gets customers to buy replace products every 2 years by continually improving the product. It seems nokia's strategy is to design disposable products that break and need to be replaced every 2 years.
Nokia: defective-by-design (TM)
You can come to Finland and get all the iPhones you want. Sonera is calling people to ask them if they would like one. For the most part the iPhone with its locked to the operator plan has not been that successful. Some people are even returning unopened iPhone boxes to get their money back because Finns simply will not pay full price for something that they can not do with what they will.
Hmmm... maybe someone will write an iPhone app that teaches Tango.
Or they just want to stock up on phones...
Because you never know when the manufacturing plant might burn to the ground.
I doubt such a stockpile would hold them over until they can get someone else to make them.
That's when I decided to get an iPhone... was able to get rid of my laptop, iPod and cell phone. Couldn't be happier!
You didn't use your notebook all that much, did you?
LOL. The numbers of nouveau rich in developing countries... are huge. Also as a previous poster mentioned, remember many of the developing economies have poorer financial accounting control (though when considering the US system...
If you know how the target the right crowd in the developing economies you can be successful. Target the wrong crowd, and one will not be successful.
Let's just say the iPhone 3G is going to be very successful.
The question is if the poor countries will buy more phones than the richer countries. And the answer is no. Yes there are wealthy people in India and China but most people are very poor by western standards.
Also people in the west are more likely to buy for reasons such as fashion and hype, people in poorer countries are more likely to be look at what they need. Mobile data access is less available in these countries and the an important differentiator of the iPhone is the internet experience.
So yes, India and China have huge populations and one day they will be a huge market, but not right now. If they were that important, Apple would have released the iPhone there in the first wave.
Hmmm... maybe someone will write an iPhone app that teaches Tango.
Nice.
well you can take your one in millions quote and change it to FIVE in millions as all 4 of my nokia phones have fallen apart in under 18 months use.
Still not a bad number. Enjoy your iPhone. Thanks for stopping by,
Still not a bad number. Enjoy your iPhone. Thanks for stopping by,
that's your rebuttal?
i think you missed my sarcasm ... i have a 100% failure rate on all 4 nokia phones ... i expect advanced electronics gadgets to last the minimum 2 years ... why should we settle for less?
what if our other mobile tools only lasted 18 months? what would the outcry be like if our macbooks fell apart after 18 months? or what if your car fell apart after 18 months?
that's your rebuttal?
i think you missed my sarcasm ... i have a 100% failure rate on all 4 nokia phones ... i expect advanced electronics gadgets to last the minimum 2 years ... why should we settle for less?
what if our other mobile tools only lasted 18 months? what would the outcry be like if our macbooks fell apart after 18 months? or what if your car fell apart after 18 months?
You're missing the point.
The point is, if your experience was anywhere near the norm, Nokia wouldn't sell as many phones as they do and have such a good reputation. So while your experience sucks, it is not valuable to extend it to a larger number and thus not worth crying about here. If there's anywhere that it is of interest, it would be you contacting Nokia directly to get compensated for faulty phones.
You're missing the point.
The point is, if your experience was anywhere near the norm, Nokia wouldn't sell as many phones as they do and have such a good reputation. So while your experience sucks, it is not valuable to extend it to a larger number and thus not worth crying about here. If there's anywhere that it is of interest, it would be you contacting Nokia directly to get compensated for faulty phones.
I could not have said it better myself. I have used Nokia's since the 2110i, or about 12 years and for the most part they have been reliable phones that performed well. Not to mention always on the cutting edge. From a technical standpoint, the N96 completely smokes the iPhone in terms of innovation. The iPhone has a strong portfolio of features but feature for feature the Nokia wins. Anyway, if you are having such problems, why would you go back for 3 more times? This does not makes sense. Maybe you, and this is a guess, might have had something to do with the phones failing. Obviously Nokia would not be #1 in the world if they had such a failure rate as you describe. Well, you have your iPhone now so be happy.
I could not have said it better myself...
Yeah, I had maybe 5-6 Nokia phones from 2001 until I got the iPhone last August. Loved them, but eventually I found myself limited by the screen, by the email configuration hassles, and by headset malfunctions that drove me nuts in the end. The ability to podcast my favorite radio shows finally put the nail in the coffin of my favorite Nokia feature - the FM radio. Now on my second iPhone, sometimes I do miss the simple, tiny Nokia candybar phone, but the additional features make those nostalgic moments very quick.
Yeah, I had maybe 5-6 Nokia phones from 2001 until I got the iPhone last August. Loved them, but eventually I found myself limited by the screen, by the email configuration hassles, and by headset malfunctions that drove me nuts in the end. The ability to podcast my favorite radio shows finally put the nail in the coffin of my favorite Nokia feature - the FM radio. Now on my second iPhone, sometimes I do miss the simple, tiny Nokia candybar phone, but the additional features make those nostalgic moments very quick.
I've owned several Nokia phones and the main reason I bought them was the diminutive size and good features for the size. But as you say the screens are very small and they keyboards are pretty frustrating for text and navigation. Also my current Nokia has a really bad Bluetooth problem which Nokia has not fixed in over a year (and several firmware updates) which has really turned me off.
I didn't think I'd buy an iPhone but now I'm leaning that way. The issue is size for me but looking at my current Nokia 6120c it's only about 15mm narrower while being about 3mm thicker than the iPhone. If I buy an iPhone it's much more likely I'll use applications and the internet while on the Nokia that just doesn't happen in practice.
What I'd really like someone to do is to bring out a basic, genuinely small mobile phone. A very thin one with no camera, no internet, no 3G. Yes I know Samsung has a thin phone but that's altogether too large. I'd like something the size of my credit cards and not much thicker. That would be a great compliment to the bulky iPhone.
What I'd really like someone to do is to bring out a basic, genuinely small mobile phone. A very thin one with no camera, no internet, no 3G. Yes I know Samsung has a thin phone but that's altogether too large. I'd like something the size of my credit cards and not much thicker. That would be a great compliment to the bulky iPhone.
iPhone Nano?
Who knows, they successfully marketed the iPod shuffle as "not enough to be your primary media player, but great to take on the road and beat up"... maybe they are thinking about doing the same thing with phones? The key to avoid peoples' displeasure is keeping the expectations low, that the Nano would be only designed to be a secondary device.
iPhone Nano?
Who knows, they successfully marketed the iPod shuffle as "not enough to be your primary media player, but great to take on the road and beat up"... maybe they are thinking about doing the same thing with phones? The key to avoid peoples' displeasure is keeping the expectations low, that the Nano would be only designed to be a secondary device.
It's quite possible Apple will wade into the market one day. Once they have established themselves as a phone manufacturer and saturate the "smartphone" market, they may go looking for the rest of the premium market with a phone sans video and internet.
It's quite possible Apple will wade into the market one day. Once they have established themselves as a phone manufacturer and saturate the "smartphone" market, they may go looking for the rest of the premium market with a phone sans video and internet.
Though it would be nice for a some to consolidate one's PMP and simple cellphone into one device made by Apple I'm wagering that they won't go this route. I'd compare it to the budget computer market that Apple doesn't want to get into. There just isn't much Apple can offer with a cellphone that had a physical number pad and no internet or video.
Even the Nano has video, albeit on a small screen. Even the App Store becomes a no go with no internet, but the smaller screen with lower resolutions would require a rewrite to apps that developers may not contend with so Apple would have to have a separate store for compatible apps if they were to include them and I don't think Apple will do that either.
I think this iteration of WiFi, UMTS, Safari and the App Store will be in the foundation of every iPhone to come. Meaning, Apple may release a simpler version in the future compared to the falgship model but it will have at least those features to make it a truely internet capable device.
It's quite possible Apple will wade into the market one day. Once they have established themselves as a phone manufacturer and saturate the "smartphone" market, they may go looking for the rest of the premium market with a phone sans video and internet.
Hi Merdhead,
Have you taken a look at the Nokia N82? I have to say that to date it is probably the best phone I have used by them. There is also the E71 but I am not sure if it released in the US. It is pretty good and my friend's company is about to switch from the Communicator to the E71. I played with one the other day and it is not bad. If I did not have the N82, I would consider the E71. Go to www.nokia.co.uk to check it out.
Though it would be nice for a some to consolidate one's PMP and simple cellphone into one device made by Apple I'm wagering that they won't go this route. I'd compare it to the budget computer market that Apple doesn't want to get into. There just isn't much Apple can offer with a cellphone that had a physical number pad and no internet or video.
Even the Nano has video, albeit on a small screen. Even the App Store becomes a no go with no internet, but the smaller screen with lower resolutions would require a rewrite to apps that developers may not contend with so Apple would have to have a separate store for compatible apps if they were to include them and I don't think Apple will do that either.
I think this iteration of WiFi, UMTS, Safari and the App Store will be in the foundation of every iPhone to come. Meaning, Apple may release a simpler version in the future compared to the falgship model but it will have at least those features to make it a truely internet capable device.
This is the view I had, but I think the comparison to make would be with the Shuffle. What did that provide in terms of the Apple experience or iPod features, especially the first iteration? I think maybe they could have video on a smaller iPhone, the screen wouldn't be that small I guess.
If Apple sales growth starts levelling off the I think they will go after new markets. Do you think they would just sit there in that situation? And I'm not suggesting they will plumb the low end. They can have a conventional phone with great design and sell it as a premium product and still do well against the established players, just as they did with the Shuffle and with the Nano to a lesser extent. Also look at the MacBook, which is that consumer laptop you talk about, but at the premium end. But as I said all this is a couple of years off at the earliest.
Hi Merdhead,
Have you taken a look at the Nokia N82? I have to say that to date it is probably the best phone I have used by them. There is also the E71 but I am not sure if it released in the US. It is pretty good and my friend's company is about to switch from the Communicator to the E71. I played with one the other day and it is not bad. If I did not have the N82, I would consider the E71. Go to www.nokia.co.uk to check it out.
I don't like the N82. Too big, doesn't do enough bands. I'm over Nokia. The 6120c is my last Nokia phone.