I just want them to speed up the 2.0 software and stomp out the bugs. Next, they can polish existing features. Then they can add push. Frankly, I'm glad they're waiting, and I hope Apple really focuses on just putting out stable, fast releases. I don't want new features unless I can get them without significant bugs (such as all the lags).
And WTF is up with cut/paste/copy .. this has existed on MacOS for decades and on other phones for YEARS. Bad, bad form not to include it.
It's a 3.5" capacitance touch screen so it requires a completely different set of rules for that action. It's not as simple as adding a clipboard to store copied items for pasting. How do other smartphone OSes do it? They use a stylus that can easily click on secondary menu of items as the stylus point is much much smaller than your finger. I still have yet to hear a good idea as how decent copy/paste could be implemented on the iPhone. Remember it's not just implementing a solution, it's implementing a solution in a way that makes it natural and easy to use for the average user and will be around for years to come. There is a reason why smartphones are just now becoming a popular replacement for the simple cellphones.
Apple has said its on the to-do list and is coming soon. It just wasn't high priority.
Their has been some speculation Apple is still trying to figure out the best touch gesture for copy/paste. Once they pick one they are stuck with it forever.
Well, because they're going after the Corp. market with Activesync and other such features .. it should have been on their radar. As user of Crackberries for the last 4+ years there are certain features that most of my co-workers use regularly .. this would be one of them. They could have just had one run their finger over the text to highlight and then had a button which pops up options for CUT/COPY/PASTE as they show option in other apps. It's not brain surgery. If RIM's craptastic software developers can figure out how to do this .. Apple should be able to do it.
I'm an extreme Apple fanboy but I won't take excuses for things like this. We'll see how they fair in the Corp. market. I can't see people not getting pissed over the fact that it's REALLY hard to sync the iPhone between multiple machines .. especially when Wintendo crashes a lot and if they sync with a new install and it tells them they've sync'ed with another iTunes DB .. then proceeds to remove all their apps which will cause them to lose data and setting. Just won't cut it. It's happened to me and I wasn't happy about it.
Ah well. iPhone OSX will get put back in the oven over the next six months and get new updates which will bake it further. It might be usable just around the time that the OS gets refreshed next June. *laugh*
However, what irks me most is that I find the majority of dissenters are just trolling, never had an iPhone, used MobileMe, and will dis Apple at the drop of a hat.
"Throwing more kindling (features) on the fire is not the best idea and based on Jobs' MobileMe internal memo and this feature delay, it sounds as if this is exactly the approach Apple has had the foresight to take."
Can't totally agree. Seems that most of those that display patience, read the directions and not be guided by conspiracy theorists, are very happy. Sales, market penetration, customer satisfaction and the voices of true pundits/experts only support it.
Great post. I've been hanging out here for a number of years and only started posting when the issue of conference calls via iPhone came up - that is my area of interest and passion. I'm neither tech savvy nor a power user and fully appreciate reading comments by those much more skilled and smarter than I am with both HW/SW issues. Thanks!
Apple has said its on the to-do list and is coming soon. It just wasn't high priority.
Their has been some speculation Apple is still trying to figure out the best touch gesture for copy/paste. Once they pick one they are stuck with it forever.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
It's a 3.5" capacitance touch screen so it requires a completely different set of rules for that action. It's not as simple as adding a clipboard to store copied items for pasting. How do other smartphone OSes do it? They use a stylus that can easily click on secondary menu of items as the stylus point is much much smaller than your finger. I still have yet to hear a good idea as how decent copy/paste could be implemented on the iPhone. Remember it's not just implementing a solution, it's implementing a solution in a way that makes it natural and easy to use for the average user and will be around for years to come. There is a reason why smartphones are just now becoming a popular replacement for the simple cellphones.
I call bull****. The Blackberry lets you position the cursor next to the beginning of the text you want to copy and then you click the menu button.. choose copy and then you use the little navigation ball to scroll over the text you want to copy then hit the menu button and copy it. Then you go to another app and have the cursor where you want to paste it and hit the menu button to choose paste. Apple could do this much easier with the gestures and it's 3.5 screen.
There are thousands of sales goons and PHB upper management types who do this daily without hand holding .. and THEY are not the sharpest bunch when it comes to tech.
I don't buy your excuse for the lack of this function. The reason it's not there is simply because they chose to focus on other features over this basic feature.
Well, because they're going after the Corp. market with Activesync and other such features .. it should have been on their radar.
As prviously stated, it is on their radar, it's just not the most important thing or the easiest thing to tackle.
Quote:
They could have just had one run their finger over the text to highlight and then had a button which pops up options for CUT/COPY/PASTE as they show option in other apps. It's not brain surgery. If RIM's craptastic software developers can figure out how to do this .. Apple should be able to do it.
First off, RiM's developers are talented. Secondly, you make it seem as easy as it would be to click and drag with a mouse, but it's not as we use our finger in the same motion on the iPhone to scroll up and down and left and right.
At the very least there has to be a secondary input to tell the system you intend to copy text. This could a roll up menu,like in Google Maps, but this would mean that all applicable apps would have to have this same functionality which would mean a rewrite and change of the new familiar placement of virtual buttons so this is not likely. another option would be holding down the Home button while clicking the start of the copy to initial the copy. But tis this too complex for the average user? Another option would be holding a finger down on the text for x seconds to get the system to recognise the start of the copy.
Okay, so we have plans for copy, despite not being easy to implement, but how do you do a cut? How do then paste the copied text? How would this work for copying non-text items like images or files? Will I have an option to match style (or preserve style)?
I call bull****. The Blackberry lets you position the cursor next to the beginning of the text you want to copy and then you click the menu button.. choose copy and then you use the little navigation ball to scroll over the text you want to copy then hit the menu button and copy it. Then you go to another app and have the cursor where you want to paste it and hit the menu button to choose paste. Apple could do this much easier with the gestures and it's 3.5 screen.
The mantra that Apple can do it more easily that others is the only BS here. You're walkthrough of a BB even shows the use of things that the iPhone currently doesn't have but you seem to not realise this. So where would the Menu » Copy/Paste option be in the iPhone? How do I put a cursor on text in a read only document that I wish to copy from?
You think that Apple can somehow snap their fingers and make things work, but the truth is that Apple's product work the way they do because they tend to focus on getting a sipler set of fucntionality working great instead of flooding their devices with a torrent of poorly implemented ones. When they try too much at one time they fall apart just like any other company.
Where is the scroll wheel on the iPhone? Your finger is quite large to choose text precisely as your finger is large and blocking the text you want you want to copy. Even the magnifying glass still needs work.
I want Copy/Paste as much as the next guy, but you can't say it's a simple task, especially when you don't even a valid outline of the logistics of making this an easy to use option for the average user.
"90% of all the people that have the phone probably don't even know they can install applications (or they simply didn't buy the phone for that purpose)."
60 million downloads as of two weeks ago suggests otherwise.
"The best part for those 90% (and for Apple) is they don't know how good things were with the original device and with iPhone OS 1, provided you didn't need 3G and didn't want all the add-on apps. Someone who's had both and is less of a power user like my wife would say the new phone is crap compared to the old one. She doesn't know what causes the thing to fall short, all she knows is the software is not nearly as responsive and she drops a lot more calls."
I am not having a problem with calls being dropped. But then, perhaps my 3g service area is covering my needs. Your wife could shut 3g off and then would be able to tell if it is a coverage issue.
"No one who's been a supporter would consider it acceptable to say that users should be required to know what's going on underneath when even the most basic bugs create challenges. Sure, everyone should be smart enough to figure out how to change a setting back the way it was, but expecting a user to know that the operating system appended a number to a filename in a folder when they synced their phone causing a catastrophic error?"
Agree.
"And they shouldn't have to know when iTunes considers part of a sync a merge or a replace ?They click on a sync button, and they expect their phone to sync. This is what has traditionally made Apple products great. They just plain work."
And just how do you do that without asking the question first. You may delete or update data on one appliance and only you know if you really want to do the same an apply it on the other. For some, the priority would be their computer, for others the their iPhone. But their are days when the opposite would be true. No software can read your mind.
"We've been talking about computing devices as 'appliances' or 'toasters' for 15 years in this industry and Apple was really the first company to turn the personal computer into a true appliance through tight HW/SW integration. Extending that power to a phone should create that same experience in light of the fact that, outside complaints about coverage and associated dropped calls, that's the user experience everyone's generally gotten with less extensible offerings over the years."
The demand for more creates more variables and thus more issues, real or perceived.
"Right now there are over 2000 comments over three days in just one of the threads I was reading regarding the app issue. Is that a small number compared to the install base? Yes, but remember these are the people who are resourceful enough to find the forum and based on the replies resourceful enough to try things that no user should have to try to make their phone work."
Again, a quick perusal discloses the same redundant comments, not following directions and just plain silliness.
"I see novices and experienced engineers alike trying to solve this problem. End result: phone just doesn't work as it should... well, at least anything beyond dialing using the number pad and core email and browser functions when you include the 3G issue and refresh delays."
"I see novices and experienced engineers alike trying to solve this problem." Unfortunately that is the problem. Too many chefs. My advice on these forums is to direct them to the appropriate Apple Support site, to the HELP menu and/or if I recommend an alterative specific solution, I provide a complete reference/link.
Unfortunately, most of the helpful hints are not supported or have lost some of the proper guidance in the transitions.
"The publicity build going on right now is far more important than any that came before release to the overall success of the product, and what I hear from people I know that haven't bought the thing and know I buy everything Apple makes without reason are things like "I hear 3G doesn't work and coverage sucks" or "How many times have you had to reload your phone now" or even "I bet you keep your phone plugged in to a charger wherever you go, don't you?" That's the real marketing going on right there."
Yes there are issues, however, how real or bad are they. Much of the complaints can be resolved with a little due diligence. I (and my clients, students and friends) for one, haven't had an issue that for the most part wasn't self-inflicted, a misunderstanding, ignorance or just plain stupidity. The balance I can live with knowing that Apple will resolve them.
However, what irks me most is that I find the majority of dissenters are just trolling, never had an iPhone, used MobileMe, and will dis Apple at the drop of a hat.
"Throwing more kindling (features) on the fire is not the best idea and based on Jobs' MobileMe internal memo and this feature delay, it sounds as if this is exactly the approach Apple has had the foresight to take."
Can't totally agree. Seems that most of those that display patience, read the directions and not be guided by conspiracy theorists, are very happy. Sales, market penetration, customer satisfaction and the voices of true pundits/experts only support it.
Cliff's Notes version of above:
Blah Blah Blah Apple is awesome and without fault.
Blah Blah Blah those who disagree with the above are either trolls or conspiracy theorists
I am not an iPhone 3G owner myself but one of my work colleagues has one. Both times he has shown it to me it has hung.
As a software developer I was pretty amazed, watching the keynote, how many new features they had added in such a short time. But on some level I must not have believed it because I waited before buying which is not something I usually do with Apple products.
Immature, poorly made components assembled in a hurry. I'm sure the testers are getting a lot of random results, its a product produced 'down' to a price point...with the obvious results.
I for so long have been trying to convince myself it will all be fixed in an update. My phone is so laggy. Even while typing this message it can't handle it. Every existing application that came with the phone takes between 2-7 seconds to load. My first iphone never lagged like that. I feel like maybe the phones physical memory and processor speeds are too slow for the phone to be something more then just a phone. Every game lags.... Every single one lags at some point. It's not like we can upgrade the phones speed do we van but better games. Ugh sorry I am just upset cuz now I am stuck with this phone for 2 years. For god sake the gps is so innaccurate it's unbelievable.
Isn't it fairly obvious that the people with problems are installing loads of apps--
It is most likely that there are bugs in the apps that is screwing up the phones---
Do any of you who have real problems have them with iPhones that have few or no apps?
My iPhone 3G (white 16GB) has no apps installed or downloaded and my phone has all the issues that are described in the various threads in this forum. Also this is my second phone as I returned this first one to try and resolve the dropped calls and signal issues. I'm praying that the 2.1 update fixes the issues and could care less about new features.
I for so long have been trying to convince myself it will all be fixed in an update. My phone is so laggy. Even while typing this message it can't handle it. Every existing application that came with the phone takes between 2-7 seconds to load. My first iphone never lagged like that. I feel like maybe the phones physical memory and processor speeds are too slow for the phone to be something more then just a phone. Every game lags.... Every single one lags at some point. It's not like we can upgrade the phones speed do we van but better games. Ugh sorry I am just upset cuz now I am stuck with this phone for 2 years. For god sake the gps is so innaccurate it's unbelievable.
1) By "for so long" you mean under 5 weeks. That is when it went on sale. Also, 2.0.1 did help a little but there are some lag issues that still need to be addressed.
2) The iPhone's processor is hella faster than other smartphones out there. Many of these companies are finally adding a faster CPU, more RAM, considerably more Flash and finally using a better display (even exceeding the iPhone's ppi). If you thought it was a HW issue that can't be resolved with a software update why didn't you return the handset when you had a 30 day trial to use it? If you did buy your iPhone within the first week you can cancel your account for $175.
3) One-thousand one, one-thousand-two. 2 to 7 seconds is unreasonable for such a small device? Have you tried the apps on other higher function phones? The one thing about the iPhone OS is that it is very responsive. But there are some issues with the OS that need work, especially with Safari and typing in web forms.
Apple has said its on the to-do list and is coming soon. It just wasn't high priority.
Their has been some speculation Apple is still trying to figure out the best touch gesture for copy/paste. Once they pick one they are stuck with it forever.
you'd think there'd be someone at apple who'd still remember how beautifully it worked on the newton....
Blah Blah Blah Apple is awesome and without fault.
Blah Blah Blah those who disagree with the above are either trolls or conspiracy theorists
No one has said Apple is without fault. Its generally recognized that the 2.0 software has bugs and faults. But to what degree are there serious problems? Some are using randomly extreme complaints by random people on anonymous web lists as empirical evidence that the iPhone is severely flawed. Some of us are pointing out that random complaints by anonymous people on web lists is a poor barometer to gauge how severe the problems actually are.
Others of us point out in our own daily use and the daily use of people we know are not nearly as extremely bad as the random and anonymous people on these web lists make it sound. While recognizing there are issues in the software.
1) By "for so long" you mean under 5 weeks. That is when it went on sale. Also, 2.0.1 did help a little but there are some lag issues that still need to be addressed.
This is a good point. The 2.0 software has been out for a short time. While recognizing there are bugs to be worked out. Some of you make it sound as if the software has been around for months and Apple has had more than reasonable time to work them all out.
Its more common for other mobile OS to carry bugs for a year or more before they receive a software update. In some cases you have to purhchase a new phone to receive the OS update. Apple's frequent point updates of the iPhone OS are not common amongst most other mobile OS.
The iPhone software as it stands is the worst crap Apple's ever released, at least in my memory. The fact that thousands of people are reporting in Apple's forum alone regarding having to constantly reinstall their entire phone over an as-yet not understood app synching bug that causes each and every app to crash until a phone wipe says that the Apple has fallen a great distance from its tree. Personally, I am simply hoping for a return to the reliable, solid OS foundation that made iPhone OS 1 a joy to use for the tasks it was designed to accomplish. This is still a phone, it needs responsive menus (including contacts), and things that run on it should run like it's an appliance. This is a major differentiator between Apple products and other crap most of us were stuck with in what we thought was our past and it should be given Apple's absolute highest priority now or we'll just be dealing with another Microsoft or Sony in the eyes of the consumer the company's in the process of trying to capture. The iPhone is the first device most will use from Apple, and it will most certainly be the last if some major bugs (3G/EDGE fringe zone call handling also) are not resolved immediately and given the kind of personal attention and communication Apple reps give when you call Apple Care. Hiding in a cave and providing sparse, vague feedback won't make it go away and it won't make Apple's most loyal customers continue their allegiance.
Well said. Give is stable appliance level software first. Do it right. Then start adding features. I would love to see the Push Notification services ASAP, but not at the expense of being able to use the phone.
I must say the BS in this thread in support of Apple is just a little to much for this user to take. Also I'm very happy to see that Apple has wise up with respect to 2.1, they need to spend a lot of time getting the bugs out of the OS and apps first.
Bugs are where most of the complaints about 3G lay and as a new user I fan say with some authority are highly justified. It is espcially bad that key apps have serious stability issues. For example:
Mail
Mail has crashed for me more than just about any app on iPhone. Sometimes right at start up. Mind you these are spimple text based mails causing this problem. Sadly E-Mail is a big reason for having a smart phone in the first place.
Safari
Safari does crash from time to time but probably isn't as bad as browsers on other phones. That of course is not saying much. If nothing else they need to fix text handeling. I'm more concerned about the lack of features, iPhone Safari still leaves a lot to be desired relative to a desk top browser.
Calendar
Let's face it calendar is really nice until you try to sync it. Then it becomes a piece of crap. Very disappointed as this is the #2 reason to have a smart phone on you. If iPhone Cal can't mirror the structures I'm using on my Mac then what the hell good is it? It is not that difficult either with one group of four calendars. Worst yet is there is apparently no simple way to get iPhone Cal to resync with your master schedule. Frankly I can't believe that keeping the two devices in sync should be that hard.
Contacts
Contacts works but like calendar seems to have sync issues. Yes it is Sloooooow too. Data entry on the iPhone sucks two, l need to be able to enter in all the data that I can on the desktop. By the way the only reason to have a contacts app is to provide a desktop equal.
Well in any event a couple of issues off the top. The 3G experience is worst than I expected but frankly a very usable device. The only thing that would change my mind is if Apple abandoned development on the unit. In a nut schell the whole reason I went with an iPhone is Apples track record on version 1. They eventually got things humming along nicely there. The problem with 3G is that they have regressed far more thanexpected and have a lot of catching up to do. So in a nut shell they better drop all those new features and finish off what they currently have.
I do mean finish off as one only has to work with they SDK a little bit to realize that there are far to many bugs in the device. I'm note sure what the issues are that lead to the current mess but the need to get things cleared up before the competition responds.
I must say the BS in this thread in support of Apple is just a little to much for this user to take. Also I'm very happy to see that Apple has wise up with respect to 2.1, they need to spend a lot of time getting the bugs out of the OS and apps first.
Bugs are where most of the complaints about 3G lay and as a new user I fan say with some authority are highly justified. It is espcially bad that key apps have serious stability issues. For example:
Just for context what other phone with a desktop kernal based OS and desktop API's, render full HTML, wirelessly sync with a cloud service and PC - launch from version .0 with every function working perfectly with no bug fixes?
To put it even more simply. What smartphone mobile phone OS launched from version .0 with every function working perfectly and required no bug fixes?
Comments
And WTF is up with cut/paste/copy .. this has existed on MacOS for decades and on other phones for YEARS. Bad, bad form not to include it.
It's a 3.5" capacitance touch screen so it requires a completely different set of rules for that action. It's not as simple as adding a clipboard to store copied items for pasting. How do other smartphone OSes do it? They use a stylus that can easily click on secondary menu of items as the stylus point is much much smaller than your finger. I still have yet to hear a good idea as how decent copy/paste could be implemented on the iPhone. Remember it's not just implementing a solution, it's implementing a solution in a way that makes it natural and easy to use for the average user and will be around for years to come. There is a reason why smartphones are just now becoming a popular replacement for the simple cellphones.
Apple has said its on the to-do list and is coming soon. It just wasn't high priority.
Their has been some speculation Apple is still trying to figure out the best touch gesture for copy/paste. Once they pick one they are stuck with it forever.
Well, because they're going after the Corp. market with Activesync and other such features .. it should have been on their radar. As user of Crackberries for the last 4+ years there are certain features that most of my co-workers use regularly .. this would be one of them. They could have just had one run their finger over the text to highlight and then had a button which pops up options for CUT/COPY/PASTE as they show option in other apps. It's not brain surgery. If RIM's craptastic software developers can figure out how to do this .. Apple should be able to do it.
I'm an extreme Apple fanboy but I won't take excuses for things like this. We'll see how they fair in the Corp. market. I can't see people not getting pissed over the fact that it's REALLY hard to sync the iPhone between multiple machines .. especially when Wintendo crashes a lot and if they sync with a new install and it tells them they've sync'ed with another iTunes DB .. then proceeds to remove all their apps which will cause them to lose data and setting. Just won't cut it. It's happened to me and I wasn't happy about it.
Ah well. iPhone OSX will get put back in the oven over the next six months and get new updates which will bake it further. It might be usable just around the time that the OS gets refreshed next June. *laugh*
Thanks for the edit. Great read.
However, what irks me most is that I find the majority of dissenters are just trolling, never had an iPhone, used MobileMe, and will dis Apple at the drop of a hat.
"Throwing more kindling (features) on the fire is not the best idea and based on Jobs' MobileMe internal memo and this feature delay, it sounds as if this is exactly the approach Apple has had the foresight to take."
Can't totally agree. Seems that most of those that display patience, read the directions and not be guided by conspiracy theorists, are very happy. Sales, market penetration, customer satisfaction and the voices of true pundits/experts only support it.
Great post. I've been hanging out here for a number of years and only started posting when the issue of conference calls via iPhone came up - that is my area of interest and passion. I'm neither tech savvy nor a power user and fully appreciate reading comments by those much more skilled and smarter than I am with both HW/SW issues. Thanks!
Apple has said its on the to-do list and is coming soon. It just wasn't high priority.
Their has been some speculation Apple is still trying to figure out the best touch gesture for copy/paste. Once they pick one they are stuck with it forever.
It's a 3.5" capacitance touch screen so it requires a completely different set of rules for that action. It's not as simple as adding a clipboard to store copied items for pasting. How do other smartphone OSes do it? They use a stylus that can easily click on secondary menu of items as the stylus point is much much smaller than your finger. I still have yet to hear a good idea as how decent copy/paste could be implemented on the iPhone. Remember it's not just implementing a solution, it's implementing a solution in a way that makes it natural and easy to use for the average user and will be around for years to come. There is a reason why smartphones are just now becoming a popular replacement for the simple cellphones.
I call bull****. The Blackberry lets you position the cursor next to the beginning of the text you want to copy and then you click the menu button.. choose copy and then you use the little navigation ball to scroll over the text you want to copy then hit the menu button and copy it. Then you go to another app and have the cursor where you want to paste it and hit the menu button to choose paste. Apple could do this much easier with the gestures and it's 3.5 screen.
There are thousands of sales goons and PHB upper management types who do this daily without hand holding .. and THEY are not the sharpest bunch when it comes to tech.
I don't buy your excuse for the lack of this function. The reason it's not there is simply because they chose to focus on other features over this basic feature.
It is what it is.
Well, because they're going after the Corp. market with Activesync and other such features .. it should have been on their radar.
As prviously stated, it is on their radar, it's just not the most important thing or the easiest thing to tackle.
They could have just had one run their finger over the text to highlight and then had a button which pops up options for CUT/COPY/PASTE as they show option in other apps. It's not brain surgery. If RIM's craptastic software developers can figure out how to do this .. Apple should be able to do it.
First off, RiM's developers are talented. Secondly, you make it seem as easy as it would be to click and drag with a mouse, but it's not as we use our finger in the same motion on the iPhone to scroll up and down and left and right.
At the very least there has to be a secondary input to tell the system you intend to copy text. This could a roll up menu,like in Google Maps, but this would mean that all applicable apps would have to have this same functionality which would mean a rewrite and change of the new familiar placement of virtual buttons so this is not likely. another option would be holding down the Home button while clicking the start of the copy to initial the copy. But tis this too complex for the average user? Another option would be holding a finger down on the text for x seconds to get the system to recognise the start of the copy.
Okay, so we have plans for copy, despite not being easy to implement, but how do you do a cut? How do then paste the copied text? How would this work for copying non-text items like images or files? Will I have an option to match style (or preserve style)?
It is most likely that there are bugs in the apps that is screwing up the phones---
Do any of you who have real problems have them with iPhones that have few or no apps?
I call bull****. The Blackberry lets you position the cursor next to the beginning of the text you want to copy and then you click the menu button.. choose copy and then you use the little navigation ball to scroll over the text you want to copy then hit the menu button and copy it. Then you go to another app and have the cursor where you want to paste it and hit the menu button to choose paste. Apple could do this much easier with the gestures and it's 3.5 screen.
The mantra that Apple can do it more easily that others is the only BS here. You're walkthrough of a BB even shows the use of things that the iPhone currently doesn't have but you seem to not realise this. So where would the Menu » Copy/Paste option be in the iPhone? How do I put a cursor on text in a read only document that I wish to copy from?
You think that Apple can somehow snap their fingers and make things work, but the truth is that Apple's product work the way they do because they tend to focus on getting a sipler set of fucntionality working great instead of flooding their devices with a torrent of poorly implemented ones. When they try too much at one time they fall apart just like any other company.
Where is the scroll wheel on the iPhone? Your finger is quite large to choose text precisely as your finger is large and blocking the text you want you want to copy. Even the magnifying glass still needs work.
I want Copy/Paste as much as the next guy, but you can't say it's a simple task, especially when you don't even a valid outline of the logistics of making this an easy to use option for the average user.
Thanks for the edit. Great read.
"90% of all the people that have the phone probably don't even know they can install applications (or they simply didn't buy the phone for that purpose)."
60 million downloads as of two weeks ago suggests otherwise.
"The best part for those 90% (and for Apple) is they don't know how good things were with the original device and with iPhone OS 1, provided you didn't need 3G and didn't want all the add-on apps. Someone who's had both and is less of a power user like my wife would say the new phone is crap compared to the old one. She doesn't know what causes the thing to fall short, all she knows is the software is not nearly as responsive and she drops a lot more calls."
I am not having a problem with calls being dropped. But then, perhaps my 3g service area is covering my needs. Your wife could shut 3g off and then would be able to tell if it is a coverage issue.
"No one who's been a supporter would consider it acceptable to say that users should be required to know what's going on underneath when even the most basic bugs create challenges. Sure, everyone should be smart enough to figure out how to change a setting back the way it was, but expecting a user to know that the operating system appended a number to a filename in a folder when they synced their phone causing a catastrophic error?"
Agree.
"And they shouldn't have to know when iTunes considers part of a sync a merge or a replace ?They click on a sync button, and they expect their phone to sync. This is what has traditionally made Apple products great. They just plain work."
And just how do you do that without asking the question first. You may delete or update data on one appliance and only you know if you really want to do the same an apply it on the other. For some, the priority would be their computer, for others the their iPhone. But their are days when the opposite would be true. No software can read your mind.
"We've been talking about computing devices as 'appliances' or 'toasters' for 15 years in this industry and Apple was really the first company to turn the personal computer into a true appliance through tight HW/SW integration. Extending that power to a phone should create that same experience in light of the fact that, outside complaints about coverage and associated dropped calls, that's the user experience everyone's generally gotten with less extensible offerings over the years."
The demand for more creates more variables and thus more issues, real or perceived.
"Right now there are over 2000 comments over three days in just one of the threads I was reading regarding the app issue. Is that a small number compared to the install base? Yes, but remember these are the people who are resourceful enough to find the forum and based on the replies resourceful enough to try things that no user should have to try to make their phone work."
Again, a quick perusal discloses the same redundant comments, not following directions and just plain silliness.
"I see novices and experienced engineers alike trying to solve this problem. End result: phone just doesn't work as it should... well, at least anything beyond dialing using the number pad and core email and browser functions when you include the 3G issue and refresh delays."
"I see novices and experienced engineers alike trying to solve this problem." Unfortunately that is the problem. Too many chefs. My advice on these forums is to direct them to the appropriate Apple Support site, to the HELP menu and/or if I recommend an alterative specific solution, I provide a complete reference/link.
Unfortunately, most of the helpful hints are not supported or have lost some of the proper guidance in the transitions.
"The publicity build going on right now is far more important than any that came before release to the overall success of the product, and what I hear from people I know that haven't bought the thing and know I buy everything Apple makes without reason are things like "I hear 3G doesn't work and coverage sucks" or "How many times have you had to reload your phone now" or even "I bet you keep your phone plugged in to a charger wherever you go, don't you?" That's the real marketing going on right there."
Yes there are issues, however, how real or bad are they. Much of the complaints can be resolved with a little due diligence. I (and my clients, students and friends) for one, haven't had an issue that for the most part wasn't self-inflicted, a misunderstanding, ignorance or just plain stupidity. The balance I can live with knowing that Apple will resolve them.
However, what irks me most is that I find the majority of dissenters are just trolling, never had an iPhone, used MobileMe, and will dis Apple at the drop of a hat.
"Throwing more kindling (features) on the fire is not the best idea and based on Jobs' MobileMe internal memo and this feature delay, it sounds as if this is exactly the approach Apple has had the foresight to take."
Can't totally agree. Seems that most of those that display patience, read the directions and not be guided by conspiracy theorists, are very happy. Sales, market penetration, customer satisfaction and the voices of true pundits/experts only support it.
Cliff's Notes version of above:
Blah Blah Blah Apple is awesome and without fault.
Blah Blah Blah those who disagree with the above are either trolls or conspiracy theorists
As a software developer I was pretty amazed, watching the keynote, how many new features they had added in such a short time. But on some level I must not have believed it because I waited before buying which is not something I usually do with Apple products.
I think this more of a hardware issue.
Immature, poorly made components assembled in a hurry. I'm sure the testers are getting a lot of random results, its a product produced 'down' to a price point...with the obvious results.
I for so long have been trying to convince myself it will all be fixed in an update. My phone is so laggy. Even while typing this message it can't handle it. Every existing application that came with the phone takes between 2-7 seconds to load. My first iphone never lagged like that. I feel like maybe the phones physical memory and processor speeds are too slow for the phone to be something more then just a phone. Every game lags.... Every single one lags at some point. It's not like we can upgrade the phones speed do we van but better games. Ugh sorry I am just upset cuz now I am stuck with this phone for 2 years. For god sake the gps is so innaccurate it's unbelievable.
Isn't it fairly obvious that the people with problems are installing loads of apps--
It is most likely that there are bugs in the apps that is screwing up the phones---
Do any of you who have real problems have them with iPhones that have few or no apps?
My iPhone 3G (white 16GB) has no apps installed or downloaded and my phone has all the issues that are described in the various threads in this forum. Also this is my second phone as I returned this first one to try and resolve the dropped calls and signal issues. I'm praying that the 2.1 update fixes the issues and could care less about new features.
I for so long have been trying to convince myself it will all be fixed in an update. My phone is so laggy. Even while typing this message it can't handle it. Every existing application that came with the phone takes between 2-7 seconds to load. My first iphone never lagged like that. I feel like maybe the phones physical memory and processor speeds are too slow for the phone to be something more then just a phone. Every game lags.... Every single one lags at some point. It's not like we can upgrade the phones speed do we van but better games. Ugh sorry I am just upset cuz now I am stuck with this phone for 2 years. For god sake the gps is so innaccurate it's unbelievable.
1) By "for so long" you mean under 5 weeks. That is when it went on sale. Also, 2.0.1 did help a little but there are some lag issues that still need to be addressed.
2) The iPhone's processor is hella faster than other smartphones out there. Many of these companies are finally adding a faster CPU, more RAM, considerably more Flash and finally using a better display (even exceeding the iPhone's ppi). If you thought it was a HW issue that can't be resolved with a software update why didn't you return the handset when you had a 30 day trial to use it? If you did buy your iPhone within the first week you can cancel your account for $175.
3) One-thousand one, one-thousand-two. 2 to 7 seconds is unreasonable for such a small device? Have you tried the apps on other higher function phones? The one thing about the iPhone OS is that it is very responsive. But there are some issues with the OS that need work, especially with Safari and typing in web forms.
Apple has said its on the to-do list and is coming soon. It just wasn't high priority.
Their has been some speculation Apple is still trying to figure out the best touch gesture for copy/paste. Once they pick one they are stuck with it forever.
you'd think there'd be someone at apple who'd still remember how beautifully it worked on the newton....
Cliff's Notes version of above:
Blah Blah Blah Apple is awesome and without fault.
Blah Blah Blah those who disagree with the above are either trolls or conspiracy theorists
No one has said Apple is without fault. Its generally recognized that the 2.0 software has bugs and faults. But to what degree are there serious problems? Some are using randomly extreme complaints by random people on anonymous web lists as empirical evidence that the iPhone is severely flawed. Some of us are pointing out that random complaints by anonymous people on web lists is a poor barometer to gauge how severe the problems actually are.
Others of us point out in our own daily use and the daily use of people we know are not nearly as extremely bad as the random and anonymous people on these web lists make it sound. While recognizing there are issues in the software.
1) By "for so long" you mean under 5 weeks. That is when it went on sale. Also, 2.0.1 did help a little but there are some lag issues that still need to be addressed.
This is a good point. The 2.0 software has been out for a short time. While recognizing there are bugs to be worked out. Some of you make it sound as if the software has been around for months and Apple has had more than reasonable time to work them all out.
Its more common for other mobile OS to carry bugs for a year or more before they receive a software update. In some cases you have to purhchase a new phone to receive the OS update. Apple's frequent point updates of the iPhone OS are not common amongst most other mobile OS.
you'd think there'd be someone at apple who'd still remember how beautifully it worked on the newton....
The Newton stylus based UI is entirely different from the iPhone multi-touch UI.
The iPhone software as it stands is the worst crap Apple's ever released, at least in my memory. The fact that thousands of people are reporting in Apple's forum alone regarding having to constantly reinstall their entire phone over an as-yet not understood app synching bug that causes each and every app to crash until a phone wipe says that the Apple has fallen a great distance from its tree. Personally, I am simply hoping for a return to the reliable, solid OS foundation that made iPhone OS 1 a joy to use for the tasks it was designed to accomplish. This is still a phone, it needs responsive menus (including contacts), and things that run on it should run like it's an appliance. This is a major differentiator between Apple products and other crap most of us were stuck with in what we thought was our past and it should be given Apple's absolute highest priority now or we'll just be dealing with another Microsoft or Sony in the eyes of the consumer the company's in the process of trying to capture. The iPhone is the first device most will use from Apple, and it will most certainly be the last if some major bugs (3G/EDGE fringe zone call handling also) are not resolved immediately and given the kind of personal attention and communication Apple reps give when you call Apple Care. Hiding in a cave and providing sparse, vague feedback won't make it go away and it won't make Apple's most loyal customers continue their allegiance.
Well said. Give is stable appliance level software first. Do it right. Then start adding features. I would love to see the Push Notification services ASAP, but not at the expense of being able to use the phone.
Bugs are where most of the complaints about 3G lay and as a new user I fan say with some authority are highly justified. It is espcially bad that key apps have serious stability issues. For example:
Mail
Mail has crashed for me more than just about any app on iPhone. Sometimes right at start up. Mind you these are spimple text based mails causing this problem. Sadly E-Mail is a big reason for having a smart phone in the first place.
Safari
Safari does crash from time to time but probably isn't as bad as browsers on other phones. That of course is not saying much. If nothing else they need to fix text handeling. I'm more concerned about the lack of features, iPhone Safari still leaves a lot to be desired relative to a desk top browser.
Calendar
Let's face it calendar is really nice until you try to sync it. Then it becomes a piece of crap. Very disappointed as this is the #2 reason to have a smart phone on you. If iPhone Cal can't mirror the structures I'm using on my Mac then what the hell good is it? It is not that difficult either with one group of four calendars. Worst yet is there is apparently no simple way to get iPhone Cal to resync with your master schedule. Frankly I can't believe that keeping the two devices in sync should be that hard.
Contacts
Contacts works but like calendar seems to have sync issues. Yes it is Sloooooow too. Data entry on the iPhone sucks two, l need to be able to enter in all the data that I can on the desktop. By the way the only reason to have a contacts app is to provide a desktop equal.
Well in any event a couple of issues off the top. The 3G experience is worst than I expected but frankly a very usable device. The only thing that would change my mind is if Apple abandoned development on the unit. In a nut schell the whole reason I went with an iPhone is Apples track record on version 1. They eventually got things humming along nicely there. The problem with 3G is that they have regressed far more thanexpected and have a lot of catching up to do. So in a nut shell they better drop all those new features and finish off what they currently have.
I do mean finish off as one only has to work with they SDK a little bit to realize that there are far to many bugs in the device. I'm note sure what the issues are that lead to the current mess but the need to get things cleared up before the competition responds.
Dave
I must say the BS in this thread in support of Apple is just a little to much for this user to take. Also I'm very happy to see that Apple has wise up with respect to 2.1, they need to spend a lot of time getting the bugs out of the OS and apps first.
Bugs are where most of the complaints about 3G lay and as a new user I fan say with some authority are highly justified. It is espcially bad that key apps have serious stability issues. For example:
Just for context what other phone with a desktop kernal based OS and desktop API's, render full HTML, wirelessly sync with a cloud service and PC - launch from version .0 with every function working perfectly with no bug fixes?
To put it even more simply. What smartphone mobile phone OS launched from version .0 with every function working perfectly and required no bug fixes?