I have an ATT 3G Express Card and 3G iPhone and here is what I see (same location, same time)-
so clearly, the problem is related to the iPhone.
I have an iPhone and Seirra Wireless 3G USB modem from AT&T and get the same results. Doesn't matter what phone I use i get the same results. Those cards have more powerful larger antennas than cellphones so comparisons should be done between iPhone to iPhone or iPhone to other cellphones.
In my repeated testing, the iPhone 3G cannot sustain a network connection under identical conditions and location to the Nokia N95-3. I'm mostly concerned with uploads here, and the device simply cannot stream data for more than 30 seconds, where the N95-3 can go for literally hours.
The letter on Macrumors from Steve Jobs specifically stated their were bugs that effected 2% of phones, and an update was coming soon.
My post was talking about the original report of the problem by an analyst from nomura. Quote from Reuters: "The problem affects 2 percent to 3 percent of iPhone traffic, BusinessWeek said, citing two "well-placed" sources."
I don't really care which is right - either way the point is that it was an isolated problem. Not the huge problem that a lot of people are perceiving.
Where do I begin - your 3rd link nowhere mentions 2%.
2.0.2 on 8/18/08 was supposed to fix this and it's apparently failed according to this article.
The update in Sept is to fix App crashes and stability- not 3G issues. Why should that Dude not be upset and blame Apple instead of AT&T if Apple has admitted the software was the problem prior to the 18th? That's a negative bias on his part?
Where do I begin...
Your link, http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...3g_issues.html which started the posts that led to mine, may not have had "2%" in that one story, this is true. However, it is an article about purported problems with the iPhone that subsequent articles derived from and it is there in one article, a reply from Steve himself, in response to an e-mail that Steve gave the 2% number and though my third link is of AppleInsiders story about Steve Job's response to an e-mail regarding the iPhone "issues", you have to go up to the second link to a MacRumors article which prints Steve's response as and is where one gets the magical percentage...
"We are working on some bugs which affect around 2% of the iPhones shipped, and hope to have a software update soon.
Steve"
Steve's reply was in regards to an e-mail to him "about the current iPhone 3G connectivity issues that have been widely reported."
So the 2% is not some out of the blue number.
Anyway, you have to do a Kevin Bacon 6 degrees of separation kind of thing with my third link relating to the second link to get to the 2% but it is there.
If the 2.0.2 update failed to fix 3G issues as your post says, then I have a feeling Septembers software update will not be just about App crashes and stability.
With regards to blaming Apple rather than AT&T, I never implied that the dude couldn't, however, if it is a software issue, why does it not effect all iPhones versus a connectivity problem that can effect users where ever they may be as more and more smart phones get purchased and the carriers network, whoever that carrier may be, can't handle the increase usage and the bottlenecks effects end user experience on their iPhone , that is all I'm saying...?
A weaker 3G antenna. Why would the 3g antenna in iPhone be weaker than EDGE antenna?
I didn't say a weaker 3G antenna, I said a weaker antenna. Based upon your data, if you're getting 5 bars with your Express Card and only 3 bars on the iPhone at same location, all you are saying is that the iPhone isn't picking up the signal at the same capacity as the Express Card. Why does the iPhone have less reception? That's the question you should be asking.
It makes sense that it would have less reception because it's a smaller device, has less power and has a smaller antenna. After all, you can't compare the power of a laptop with the power of a cell phone.
AT&T has leveraged the Apple iPhone to buttress their crap service with a very cool and quite useful tool.
AT&T is more than just crap service. Let's not forget that they also are quite happy to give your private information away to the fascist spy network running amok in the US at the moment.
...and taking your money and using it to throw private parties for the palms that were greased by their slimy lobbyists to thank them for granting them "immunity" (instead of spending it on upgrading their crappy service):
Crap service. Warrantless wiretapping. AT$T can give you all that and more.
I'd love to own an iPhone. Really I would. But at least Sprint's service if pretty reliable (in my neck of the woods) and they refused to provide any info to the fascists without a warrant.
Please Apple, get your phones out to some other US providers....please.
Come to think of it....maybe that's the problem with AT$T's service.
You get 5 bars and full 3G data rates only if a warrentless wiretap is being conducted on you by the NSA. After all, AT$T and the NSA do have their priorites.... ;-)
My post was talking about the original report of the problem by an analyst from nomura. Quote from Reuters: "The problem affects 2 percent to 3 percent of iPhone traffic, BusinessWeek said, citing two "well-placed" sources."
I don't really care which is right - either way the point is that it was an isolated problem. Not the huge problem that a lot of people are perceiving.
This is the typical pervasive "release and fix" attitude that runs through the industry. Apple didn't get 2% of my money. They got all of it. The problems with the iPhone could have been isolated via better testing. Apple and its "veil of secrecy" screwed itself by not doing a live test with production phones and production software extensively. Great that they did testing with non-production devices and software. This is the result.
Are these well placed sources sitting next to Job's desk?
I didn't say a weaker 3G antenna, I said a weaker antenna. Based upon your data, if you're getting 5 bars with your Express Card and only 3 bars on the iPhone at same location, all you are saying is that the iPhone isn't picking up the signal at the same capacity as the Express Card. Why does the iPhone have less reception? That's the question you should be asking.
It makes sense that it would have less reception because it's a smaller device, has less power and has a smaller antenna. After all, you can't compare the power of a laptop with the power of a cell phone.
The antenna that EDGE uses is different than that 3G uses. No comparison. Different technologies. The comparison based on antennas is moot.
AT&T is more than just crap service. Let's not forget that they also are quite happy to give your private information away to the fascist spy network running amok in the US at the moment.
...and taking your money and using it to throw private parties for the palms that were greased by their slimy lobbyists to thank them for granting them "immunity" (instead of spending it on upgrading their crappy service):
Crap service. Warrantless wiretapping. AT$T can give you all that and more.
I'd love to own an iPhone. Really I would. But at least Sprint's service if pretty reliable (in my neck of the woods) and they refused to provide any info to the fascists without a warrant.
Please Apple, get your phones out to some other US providers....please.
I got your iPhone 3G right here baby ... Full Unlocked. Screw AT&T. It will be on eBay in the next few days. It be from Singapore, where locking is not allowed by the governement. I'm here in Singapore for a few days.
For anyones info, the 2.0.2 software update brings the modem firmware to 2.0+ instead of 1.+ like the 2.0 original software.
This locking nonsense has to end. It creates extreme inefficiency in the global economy which results in less profits for the companies anyway. Who has the fattest profit margis right now? (Besides Apple) The "grey" market of iPhone 3Gs. Of course, there's big marketing and sales value for the company that carries the iPhone 3G. But... in the long run... ??? I'm not sure...
AT&T and others should compete and focus on improving service and staff knowledge. Rather than plough that money into "greasing" up to Apple, being the "only source" and so on.
In the US for example, IMHO, if the other networks cared about 3G service, then they'd improve it to compete with the iPhone 3G. And have competing devices with a proper full browser for Internet.
That's what I'd do if I were Verizon, Sprint, T-Mobile. I'd go straight to Symbian and say, give me a frickin' full-browser, no nonsense, I want to kick Safari iPhone's butt right now. Hell, make it have Flash, AVI support...
In the US for example, IMHO, if the other networks cared about 3G service, then they'd improve it to compete with the iPhone 3G. And have competing devices with a proper full browser for Internet.
That's what I'd do if I were Verizon, Sprint, T-Mobile. I'd go straight to Symbian and say, give me a frickin' full-browser, no nonsense, I want to kick Safari iPhone's butt right now. Hell, make it have Flash, AVI support...
Nokia and Mozilla are porting FF to Qt, like WebKit is, so that will a powerful addition there. And RiM is introducing the BB Thunder in 6 weeks with WebKit which will be sold on Verizon only, at first.
I agree with the locking thing. i understand it for Apple's first attempt at a mobile and with the profit sharing they had going on, but now all that is over with; you have to sign up for a plan to get the device, so I see no reason Apple should care as much as they seem to do about making the unlocking so difficult on the 3G's baseband. But they are doing more than giving lip service to the carriers so I'm apparently missing something.
This locking nonsense has to end. It creates extreme inefficiency in the global economy which results in less profits for the companies anyway. Who has the fattest profit margis right now? (Besides Apple) The "grey" market of iPhone 3Gs. Of course, there's big marketing and sales value for the company that carries the iPhone 3G. But... in the long run... ??? I'm not sure...
AT&T and others should compete and focus on improving service and staff knowledge. Rather than plough that money into "greasing" up to Apple, being the "only source" and so on.
In the US for example, IMHO, if the other networks cared about 3G service, then they'd improve it to compete with the iPhone 3G. And have competing devices with a proper full browser for Internet.
That's what I'd do if I were Verizon, Sprint, T-Mobile. I'd go straight to Symbian and say, give me a frickin' full-browser, no nonsense, I want to kick Safari iPhone's butt right now. Hell, make it have Flash, AVI support...
I love business talk from people who have never run a business.
In Singapore through eBay.com.sg or through other sources, the iPhone 3G is going from about SGD 1,300 to SGD 1,600 for the 16GB... So that puts it around USD 1,000...
My listing on eBay's pricing structure will be different, because it will be through eBay UK for the UK and Europe peoples.
The thing is I was able to personally inspect the phone, receipt, IMEI, serial and so on before ponying up the cash. And it was slightly lower than those average prices I listed.
I think phones out of Singapore will hit the international grey market soon because it is fully unlocked. So given cost and other constraints out of Belgium, Italy, given Hong Kong and Singapore as shipping hubs, these will probably big grey market/ export to tourists exporters.
Pricing may be steady at around USD 700 to USD 1200 globally for a properly fully-unlocked phone.
There are a lot of scammers listing on eBay as "Unlocked" even though that is with a unstable/incomplete/risky SIM-hack solution.
Comments
I have an ATT 3G Express Card and 3G iPhone and here is what I see (same location, same time)-
Express Card 5 bars = iPhone 3 bars
Express Card 3 bars = iPhone 1 bar
Express Card 2 bars = iPhone switches to EDGE
so clearly, the problem is related to the iPhone.
this study proves nothing.
I have an ATT 3G Express Card and 3G iPhone and here is what I see (same location, same time)-
so clearly, the problem is related to the iPhone.
I have an iPhone and Seirra Wireless 3G USB modem from AT&T and get the same results. Doesn't matter what phone I use i get the same results. Those cards have more powerful larger antennas than cellphones so comparisons should be done between iPhone to iPhone or iPhone to other cellphones.
this study proves nothing.
I have an ATT 3G Express Card and 3G iPhone and here is what I see (same location, same time)-
Express Card 5 bars = iPhone 3 bars
Express Card 3 bars = iPhone 1 bar
Express Card 2 bars = iPhone switches to EDGE
so clearly, the problem is related to the iPhone.
Interesting. What I'm seeing from your data is this: iPhone having a weaker antenna.
Edit: Solipsim beat me to it.
In my repeated testing, the iPhone 3G cannot sustain a network connection under identical conditions and location to the Nokia N95-3. I'm mostly concerned with uploads here, and the device simply cannot stream data for more than 30 seconds, where the N95-3 can go for literally hours.
Interesting. What I'm seeing from your data is this: iPhone having a weaker antenna.
A weaker 3G antenna. Why would the 3g antenna in iPhone be weaker than EDGE antenna?
The letter on Macrumors from Steve Jobs specifically stated their were bugs that effected 2% of phones, and an update was coming soon.
My post was talking about the original report of the problem by an analyst from nomura. Quote from Reuters: "The problem affects 2 percent to 3 percent of iPhone traffic, BusinessWeek said, citing two "well-placed" sources."
I don't really care which is right - either way the point is that it was an isolated problem. Not the huge problem that a lot of people are perceiving.
Where do I begin - your 3rd link nowhere mentions 2%.
2.0.2 on 8/18/08 was supposed to fix this and it's apparently failed according to this article.
The update in Sept is to fix App crashes and stability- not 3G issues. Why should that Dude not be upset and blame Apple instead of AT&T if Apple has admitted the software was the problem prior to the 18th? That's a negative bias on his part?
Where do I begin...
Your link, http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...3g_issues.html which started the posts that led to mine, may not have had "2%" in that one story, this is true. However, it is an article about purported problems with the iPhone that subsequent articles derived from and it is there in one article, a reply from Steve himself, in response to an e-mail that Steve gave the 2% number and though my third link is of AppleInsiders story about Steve Job's response to an e-mail regarding the iPhone "issues", you have to go up to the second link to a MacRumors article which prints Steve's response as and is where one gets the magical percentage...
"We are working on some bugs which affect around 2% of the iPhones shipped, and hope to have a software update soon.
Steve"
Steve's reply was in regards to an e-mail to him "about the current iPhone 3G connectivity issues that have been widely reported."
So the 2% is not some out of the blue number.
Anyway, you have to do a Kevin Bacon 6 degrees of separation kind of thing with my third link relating to the second link to get to the 2% but it is there.
If the 2.0.2 update failed to fix 3G issues as your post says, then I have a feeling Septembers software update will not be just about App crashes and stability.
With regards to blaming Apple rather than AT&T, I never implied that the dude couldn't, however, if it is a software issue, why does it not effect all iPhones versus a connectivity problem that can effect users where ever they may be as more and more smart phones get purchased and the carriers network, whoever that carrier may be, can't handle the increase usage and the bottlenecks effects end user experience on their iPhone , that is all I'm saying...?
A weaker 3G antenna. Why would the 3g antenna in iPhone be weaker than EDGE antenna?
I didn't say a weaker 3G antenna, I said a weaker antenna. Based upon your data, if you're getting 5 bars with your Express Card and only 3 bars on the iPhone at same location, all you are saying is that the iPhone isn't picking up the signal at the same capacity as the Express Card. Why does the iPhone have less reception? That's the question you should be asking.
It makes sense that it would have less reception because it's a smaller device, has less power and has a smaller antenna. After all, you can't compare the power of a laptop with the power of a cell phone.
AT&T has leveraged the Apple iPhone to buttress their crap service with a very cool and quite useful tool.
AT&T is more than just crap service. Let's not forget that they also are quite happy to give your private information away to the fascist spy network running amok in the US at the moment.
http://www.wired.com/politics/law/news/2007/06/spy_room
...and taking your money and using it to throw private parties for the palms that were greased by their slimy lobbyists to thank them for granting them "immunity" (instead of spending it on upgrading their crappy service):
http://www.democracynow.org/2008/8/2...rty_to_support
Crap service. Warrantless wiretapping. AT$T can give you all that and more.
I'd love to own an iPhone. Really I would. But at least Sprint's service if pretty reliable (in my neck of the woods) and they refused to provide any info to the fascists without a warrant.
Please Apple, get your phones out to some other US providers....please.
You get 5 bars and full 3G data rates only if a warrentless wiretap is being conducted on you by the NSA. After all, AT$T and the NSA do have their priorites.... ;-)
My post was talking about the original report of the problem by an analyst from nomura. Quote from Reuters: "The problem affects 2 percent to 3 percent of iPhone traffic, BusinessWeek said, citing two "well-placed" sources."
I don't really care which is right - either way the point is that it was an isolated problem. Not the huge problem that a lot of people are perceiving.
This is the typical pervasive "release and fix" attitude that runs through the industry. Apple didn't get 2% of my money. They got all of it. The problems with the iPhone could have been isolated via better testing. Apple and its "veil of secrecy" screwed itself by not doing a live test with production phones and production software extensively. Great that they did testing with non-production devices and software. This is the result.
Are these well placed sources sitting next to Job's desk?
I didn't say a weaker 3G antenna, I said a weaker antenna. Based upon your data, if you're getting 5 bars with your Express Card and only 3 bars on the iPhone at same location, all you are saying is that the iPhone isn't picking up the signal at the same capacity as the Express Card. Why does the iPhone have less reception? That's the question you should be asking.
It makes sense that it would have less reception because it's a smaller device, has less power and has a smaller antenna. After all, you can't compare the power of a laptop with the power of a cell phone.
The antenna that EDGE uses is different than that 3G uses. No comparison. Different technologies. The comparison based on antennas is moot.
The antenna that EDGE uses is different than that 3G uses. No comparison. Different technologies. The comparison based on antennas is moot.
Who's comparing EDGE antennas to 3G antennas?
Who's comparing EDGE antennas to 3G antennas?
I was referring to post #67. Sorry for the confusion.
AT&T is more than just crap service. Let's not forget that they also are quite happy to give your private information away to the fascist spy network running amok in the US at the moment.
http://www.wired.com/politics/law/news/2007/06/spy_room
...and taking your money and using it to throw private parties for the palms that were greased by their slimy lobbyists to thank them for granting them "immunity" (instead of spending it on upgrading their crappy service):
http://www.democracynow.org/2008/8/2...rty_to_support
Crap service. Warrantless wiretapping. AT$T can give you all that and more.
I'd love to own an iPhone. Really I would. But at least Sprint's service if pretty reliable (in my neck of the woods) and they refused to provide any info to the fascists without a warrant.
Please Apple, get your phones out to some other US providers....please.
I got your iPhone 3G right here baby
For anyones info, the 2.0.2 software update brings the modem firmware to 2.0+ instead of 1.+ like the 2.0 original software.
If this makes any sense...
AT&T and others should compete and focus on improving service and staff knowledge. Rather than plough that money into "greasing" up to Apple, being the "only source" and so on.
In the US for example, IMHO, if the other networks cared about 3G service, then they'd improve it to compete with the iPhone 3G. And have competing devices with a proper full browser for Internet.
That's what I'd do if I were Verizon, Sprint, T-Mobile. I'd go straight to Symbian and say, give me a frickin' full-browser, no nonsense, I want to kick Safari iPhone's butt right now. Hell, make it have Flash, AVI support...
In the US for example, IMHO, if the other networks cared about 3G service, then they'd improve it to compete with the iPhone 3G. And have competing devices with a proper full browser for Internet.
That's what I'd do if I were Verizon, Sprint, T-Mobile. I'd go straight to Symbian and say, give me a frickin' full-browser, no nonsense, I want to kick Safari iPhone's butt right now. Hell, make it have Flash, AVI support...
Nokia and Mozilla are porting FF to Qt, like WebKit is, so that will a powerful addition there. And RiM is introducing the BB Thunder in 6 weeks with WebKit which will be sold on Verizon only, at first.
I agree with the locking thing. i understand it for Apple's first attempt at a mobile and with the profit sharing they had going on, but now all that is over with; you have to sign up for a plan to get the device, so I see no reason Apple should care as much as they seem to do about making the unlocking so difficult on the 3G's baseband. But they are doing more than giving lip service to the carriers so I'm apparently missing something.
How much USD is that unlocked iPhone costing?
This locking nonsense has to end. It creates extreme inefficiency in the global economy which results in less profits for the companies anyway. Who has the fattest profit margis right now? (Besides Apple) The "grey" market of iPhone 3Gs. Of course, there's big marketing and sales value for the company that carries the iPhone 3G. But... in the long run... ??? I'm not sure...
AT&T and others should compete and focus on improving service and staff knowledge. Rather than plough that money into "greasing" up to Apple, being the "only source" and so on.
In the US for example, IMHO, if the other networks cared about 3G service, then they'd improve it to compete with the iPhone 3G. And have competing devices with a proper full browser for Internet.
That's what I'd do if I were Verizon, Sprint, T-Mobile. I'd go straight to Symbian and say, give me a frickin' full-browser, no nonsense, I want to kick Safari iPhone's butt right now. Hell, make it have Flash, AVI support...
I love business talk from people who have never run a business.
My listing on eBay's pricing structure will be different, because it will be through eBay UK for the UK and Europe peoples.
The thing is I was able to personally inspect the phone, receipt, IMEI, serial and so on before ponying up the cash. And it was slightly lower than those average prices I listed.
I think phones out of Singapore will hit the international grey market soon because it is fully unlocked. So given cost and other constraints out of Belgium, Italy, given Hong Kong and Singapore as shipping hubs, these will probably big grey market/ export to tourists exporters.
Pricing may be steady at around USD 700 to USD 1200 globally for a properly fully-unlocked phone.
There are a lot of scammers listing on eBay as "Unlocked" even though that is with a unstable/incomplete/risky SIM-hack solution.