Unfortunately, the reality is that PC users should be added to X-Box 360 users because the development environments are similar, regardless of hardware differences. This also helps to lock developers into MS APIs instead of cross-platform technologies.
Thanks MAC, but I'm not sure there are really very many "X-Box 360" users that are associated with development in any way. My grandmother uses the "X-Box 360" to play uno but I'm not sure I'd put her on the list of pc sophisticates.
What are you talking about??? XBox don't use any pieces manufactured by Apple.
I didn't SAY the "pieces" are "manufactured by Apple.
According to Bill Gates, Apple moved into Intel hardware just as MicroSoft in the XBox started using chips that used to be used by Apple in the older systems. (in other words, old hardware Apple used to use)
I think the quote by Gates was something like "Apple moving away from those chips really allowed us the capacity we needed, ironic that Apple moving to Intel allowed us to move forward with what we were doing on a new platform".
For all you snark-meisters out there, I know it's not word for word.....
In contrast, all of Apple's Macs are now 64-bit and running a 64-bit OS, as there are no problems that prevent adoption of Apple's rather seamless 64-bit deployment. Except for, of course, a paucity of popular 64-bit Mac apps from everyone from Adobe to Apple itself.
No mention of Apple yanking away 64 bit Carbon support at the last minute after previously promising it leaving developers with hundreds (thousands?) of hours of work down the toilet? Who knows how long the decision was made before announcing it at WWDC, but Apple kept it under wraps because things can only be announced at a big event in Appleland.
Thanks MAC, but I'm not sure there are really very many "X-Box 360" users that are associated with development in any way. My grandmother uses the "X-Box 360" to play uno but I'm not sure I'd put her on the list of pc sophisticates.
Is there a reason that you choose to spell it incorrectly? Some inside joke, or something? I couldn't care less if you do, but I wonder why you do. Are you also referring to iPhones and iPods as i-pods and eye-phones?
Is there a reason that you choose to spell it incorrectly? Some inside joke, or something? I couldn't care less if you do, but I wonder why you do. Are you also referring to iPhones and iPods as i-pods and eye-phones?
Couple of things. First, I'm not a fan of downplaying the cost of being mislead.
If you have 3 GB in your machine and are talked into buying the 4th gig..... I don't really care how much you can say it didn't cost much. Even if it was free, when they have you put in 33% more memory and and you can use less than a quarter of what you're adding your application then I don't think that's good. That's usually the fault of the guy at the counter you're talking to and his lack of knowledge more than any one computer maker.
Second, if the AI article was talking about the current Leopard on the market then I might agree about your complaints. But the way I read this article, it's talking about Snow Leo and how it's DIFFERENT from the current Leo. Comparisons on how it works today aside, how it will work in Snow Leo are interesting.
Third, I'd be curious what actual 64 bit application you're running on your laptop that compelled you to run out and double your memory and completely change the OS to full 64bit. And I'd also be curious if you wrote off anything you had but can't really use in the "full 64 bit version of Vista".
4th: <As to the ignorance of Mac versus PC end users, both are on average the same>
Agreed, but I think pointing out that the windows world requires people to be knowledgeable and Apple has a lot of success with people that don't need to go there, well I'm not sure that's bad. In fact, earlier I was pointing out the need for people to become too well educated on the internal configurations of a pc just to avoid missing what they need or buying too much. This is a situation where Apple is getting a lot of their growth from solving the problem of understanding the hardware and software utilties, just to be able to run the application software you want. Apple is trying to limit users to only needing to run the software they want, and not all the icons in the control panel. You're right, but not sure that's a good thing for the pc world.
5th:The gaming world users do dominate or outnumber the Apple user base. That's true. But if you remove all the xBox users, and put those in the Apple camp because they actually are using old Apple hardware it does kind of take away from the pc numbers. (ouch)
6th: Again, saying OS X users are more clueless is not really a bad thing for Apple, or a good point for windows users. The one thing almost all windows users are in fact smart enough to know, is that you need to go out of your way and throw Vista away and get XP back on your new computer. And to the extent YOU may believe that is not true, you're going to have to explain to me if all those pc users are in fact so up to speed and knowledgeable then why does MicroSoft have such a hard time getting people to realize they don't need to do that? I mean really, if all those pc people are so smart and they are replacing Vista with XP, either they aren't as smart as you say they are or Vista is not very good!
Why do you have to comment on everything that is said? You do realize that this is the internet, right? Not one single person here is going to respect you, or even acknowledge the fact that you have an opinion. I am saddened when people like you speak their minds and expect everybody to bow to your all-knowingness. One could only assume that you sit at your computer all day long, waiting for people to make a comment that you have a problem with, so that you can shove your opinion in their face and try and make them feel bad or insignificant about what they think. I'm pretty sure that these forums were setup for productive discussions pertaining to the topic, not to bash other people so that it doesn't take you as long to cry yourself to sleep at night...
Thanks MAC, but I'm not sure there are really very many "X-Box 360" users that are associated with development in any way. My grandmother uses the "X-Box 360" to play uno but I'm not sure I'd put her on the list of pc sophisticates.
When you start talking about the technology that powers a machine, you're talking about stuff that matters to developers, not end users.
Why do you have to comment on everything that is said? You do realize that this is the internet, right? Not one single person here is going to respect you, or even acknowledge the fact that you have an opinion. I am saddened when people like you speak their minds and expect everybody to bow to your all-knowingness. One could only assume that you sit at your computer all day long, waiting for people to make a comment that you have a problem with, so that you can shove your opinion in their face and try and make them feel bad or insignificant about what they think. I'm pretty sure that these forums were setup for productive discussions pertaining to the topic, not to bash other people so that it doesn't take you as long to cry yourself to sleep at night...
I have to say real world results Vista x64 is alot better then XP x64. Mostly because drivers have advanced. I would disagree that 32 bit apps run poorly in Vista, now I will admit that I run some pretty heavy hardware so I have had no issues at all.
I run CS3, Office, Encoding all that the same time and they are all very fast with no issues at all. Even iTunes runs flawless in Vista x64.
Most people that rag on Vista have never really used it, I actually have far more issues with Leopard then I do with Vista.
The issue I have with Apple these days is they can't seem to put anything out lately without a ton of updates or firmware fixes. Leopard sounded great on paper and so far has been a disappointment at least IMO compared to Tiger. MS resolved almost all there Vista problems with one service pack, we can't say that when it comes to Leopard there are still issues.
Snow Leopard is still a time will tell situation. Look good on paper but lets see how it actually performs.
Not to mention people tend not to mention that Apple keeps there arena pretty small and only plays by there rules with a very hardware config. I would say MS does a fairly good job considering they make software that has to work on far more hardware configurations.
As far as which end user group is smarter I would say both have their fair share of each. Lets face it gamers can often overclock, and I have yet to find a iMac user who has figured out how to voltage mod and has as watercooling system...
I have to say your a toolbox.
You run vista x64, (i have used that system) and your upset Apple patches to much? This is rich. If you think the only patch on your Vista x64 box was SP1, then your stupid.
Your main point of how well your computer performs is funny. Cause my Powerbook g4 had no problems running CS1, itunes and Warcraft 3 (windowed on a seperate vram eating display, concurrently).
My Macbook pro with 2 core2duo 2.6's right now is handling (with 66fps mind you)
WoW
Garage band (using it open as a virtual amp)
Safari
itunes
ichat
entourage
I do this every day. This is what i expect from my laptop
-from an actual user of all three platforms / IT guy
Tell that to a user that decides between which level of multiple core cpu they buy to run exactly the same piece of software.....
Xbox 360 owners make no choice, and, as already covered in this thread, most PC users are oblivious.
Anyway, to further expand upon and clarify my previous statement, Microsoft is working towards making Xbox 360 and "Games for Windows" (aka worst branding ever) into one platform for developers. Thus, it makes far more sense to combine the Xbox 360 and Windows PC into one platform than it does to add Xbox 360 to the Mac numbers just because it uses a variant of a processor that Apple once used.
Anyway, does this forum have no moderators? I think it counts as spam when 25% of the posts in a 60-post thread are from one user and includes triple-posting and self-replies.
Xbox 360 owners owners make no choice, and, as already covered in this thread, most PC users are oblivious.
Anyway, does this forum have no moderators? I think it counts as spam when 25% of the posts in a 60-post thread are from one user and includes triple-posting and self-replies.
Comments
I love the icons on the graph illustrating the RAM ceiling for Snow Leopard apps: Hot air balloon, Jet, satellite, moon...
Nice to see that someone else in here is also aware of the details that are worth mentioning.
I'm thinking full 64 Bits will require both Lenin and Trotsky at a minimum to assail the impending Ram-Performance wall at Petrograd in October 2017.
Then 64 bits computing for all peoples, Comrades! Na-Zdrovye!!!
Unfortunately, the reality is that PC users should be added to X-Box 360 users because the development environments are similar, regardless of hardware differences. This also helps to lock developers into MS APIs instead of cross-platform technologies.
Thanks MAC, but I'm not sure there are really very many "X-Box 360" users that are associated with development in any way. My grandmother uses the "X-Box 360" to play uno but I'm not sure I'd put her on the list of pc sophisticates.
What are you talking about???
I didn't SAY the "pieces" are "manufactured by Apple.
According to Bill Gates, Apple moved into Intel hardware just as MicroSoft in the XBox started using chips that used to be used by Apple in the older systems. (in other words, old hardware Apple used to use)
I think the quote by Gates was something like "Apple moving away from those chips really allowed us the capacity we needed, ironic that Apple moving to Intel allowed us to move forward with what we were doing on a new platform".
For all you snark-meisters out there, I know it's not word for word.....
In contrast, all of Apple's Macs are now 64-bit and running a 64-bit OS, as there are no problems that prevent adoption of Apple's rather seamless 64-bit deployment. Except for, of course, a paucity of popular 64-bit Mac apps from everyone from Adobe to Apple itself.
No mention of Apple yanking away 64 bit Carbon support at the last minute after previously promising it leaving developers with hundreds (thousands?) of hours of work down the toilet? Who knows how long the decision was made before announcing it at WWDC, but Apple kept it under wraps because things can only be announced at a big event in Appleland.
Thanks MAC, but I'm not sure there are really very many "X-Box 360" users that are associated with development in any way. My grandmother uses the "X-Box 360" to play uno but I'm not sure I'd put her on the list of pc sophisticates.
Is there a reason that you choose to spell it incorrectly? Some inside joke, or something? I couldn't care less if you do, but I wonder why you do. Are you also referring to iPhones and iPods as i-pods and eye-phones?
Is there a reason that you choose to spell it incorrectly? Some inside joke, or something? I couldn't care less if you do, but I wonder why you do. Are you also referring to iPhones and iPods as i-pods and eye-phones?
Spelling?
Eye no, inside joke.
Spelling?
Eye no, inside joke.
References to "X-Box 360" in quotes were copied from prior message by another arther.
References to "X-Box 360" in quotes were copied from prior message by another arther.
References to arther are intentional and do not resemble any actual character named Arthur either fictional OR imaginary.
Couple of things. First, I'm not a fan of downplaying the cost of being mislead.
If you have 3 GB in your machine and are talked into buying the 4th gig..... I don't really care how much you can say it didn't cost much. Even if it was free, when they have you put in 33% more memory and and you can use less than a quarter of what you're adding your application then I don't think that's good. That's usually the fault of the guy at the counter you're talking to and his lack of knowledge more than any one computer maker.
Second, if the AI article was talking about the current Leopard on the market then I might agree about your complaints. But the way I read this article, it's talking about Snow Leo and how it's DIFFERENT from the current Leo. Comparisons on how it works today aside, how it will work in Snow Leo are interesting.
Third, I'd be curious what actual 64 bit application you're running on your laptop that compelled you to run out and double your memory and completely change the OS to full 64bit. And I'd also be curious if you wrote off anything you had but can't really use in the "full 64 bit version of Vista".
4th: <As to the ignorance of Mac versus PC end users, both are on average the same>
Agreed, but I think pointing out that the windows world requires people to be knowledgeable and Apple has a lot of success with people that don't need to go there, well I'm not sure that's bad. In fact, earlier I was pointing out the need for people to become too well educated on the internal configurations of a pc just to avoid missing what they need or buying too much. This is a situation where Apple is getting a lot of their growth from solving the problem of understanding the hardware and software utilties, just to be able to run the application software you want. Apple is trying to limit users to only needing to run the software they want, and not all the icons in the control panel. You're right, but not sure that's a good thing for the pc world.
5th:The gaming world users do dominate or outnumber the Apple user base. That's true. But if you remove all the xBox users, and put those in the Apple camp because they actually are using old Apple hardware it does kind of take away from the pc numbers. (ouch)
6th: Again, saying OS X users are more clueless is not really a bad thing for Apple, or a good point for windows users. The one thing almost all windows users are in fact smart enough to know, is that you need to go out of your way and throw Vista away and get XP back on your new computer. And to the extent YOU may believe that is not true, you're going to have to explain to me if all those pc users are in fact so up to speed and knowledgeable then why does MicroSoft have such a hard time getting people to realize they don't need to do that? I mean really, if all those pc people are so smart and they are replacing Vista with XP, either they aren't as smart as you say they are or Vista is not very good!
Why do you have to comment on everything that is said? You do realize that this is the internet, right? Not one single person here is going to respect you, or even acknowledge the fact that you have an opinion. I am saddened when people like you speak their minds and expect everybody to bow to your all-knowingness. One could only assume that you sit at your computer all day long, waiting for people to make a comment that you have a problem with, so that you can shove your opinion in their face and try and make them feel bad or insignificant about what they think. I'm pretty sure that these forums were setup for productive discussions pertaining to the topic, not to bash other people so that it doesn't take you as long to cry yourself to sleep at night...
GET. A. LIFE.
Thanks MAC, but I'm not sure there are really very many "X-Box 360" users that are associated with development in any way. My grandmother uses the "X-Box 360" to play uno but I'm not sure I'd put her on the list of pc sophisticates.
When you start talking about the technology that powers a machine, you're talking about stuff that matters to developers, not end users.
References to arther are intentional and do not resemble any actual character named Arthur either fictional OR imaginary.
References as if imaginary and fictional are opposites is meant as a snarky wise-ass comment to people to two much time on there hands.....
Or to much tyme on there hands....
Or too much tyme on their hands...
Ore to much time on their hands...
or to much time on there hands.
When you start talking about the technology that powers a machine, you're talking about stuff that matters to developers, not end users.
Tell that to a user that decides between which level of multiple core cpu they buy to run exactly the same piece of software.....
Why do you have to comment on everything that is said? You do realize that this is the internet, right? Not one single person here is going to respect you, or even acknowledge the fact that you have an opinion. I am saddened when people like you speak their minds and expect everybody to bow to your all-knowingness. One could only assume that you sit at your computer all day long, waiting for people to make a comment that you have a problem with, so that you can shove your opinion in their face and try and make them feel bad or insignificant about what they think. I'm pretty sure that these forums were setup for productive discussions pertaining to the topic, not to bash other people so that it doesn't take you as long to cry yourself to sleep at night...
GET. A. LIFE.
I got iLife, but thanks for your interest.
I have to say real world results Vista x64 is alot better then XP x64. Mostly because drivers have advanced. I would disagree that 32 bit apps run poorly in Vista, now I will admit that I run some pretty heavy hardware so I have had no issues at all.
I run CS3, Office, Encoding all that the same time and they are all very fast with no issues at all. Even iTunes runs flawless in Vista x64.
Most people that rag on Vista have never really used it, I actually have far more issues with Leopard then I do with Vista.
The issue I have with Apple these days is they can't seem to put anything out lately without a ton of updates or firmware fixes. Leopard sounded great on paper and so far has been a disappointment at least IMO compared to Tiger. MS resolved almost all there Vista problems with one service pack, we can't say that when it comes to Leopard there are still issues.
Snow Leopard is still a time will tell situation. Look good on paper but lets see how it actually performs.
Not to mention people tend not to mention that Apple keeps there arena pretty small and only plays by there rules with a very hardware config. I would say MS does a fairly good job considering they make software that has to work on far more hardware configurations.
As far as which end user group is smarter I would say both have their fair share of each. Lets face it gamers can often overclock, and I have yet to find a iMac user who has figured out how to voltage mod and has as watercooling system...
I have to say your a toolbox.
You run vista x64, (i have used that system) and your upset Apple patches to much? This is rich. If you think the only patch on your Vista x64 box was SP1, then your stupid.
Your main point of how well your computer performs is funny. Cause my Powerbook g4 had no problems running CS1, itunes and Warcraft 3 (windowed on a seperate vram eating display, concurrently).
My Macbook pro with 2 core2duo 2.6's right now is handling (with 66fps mind you)
WoW
Garage band (using it open as a virtual amp)
Safari
itunes
ichat
entourage
I do this every day. This is what i expect from my laptop
-from an actual user of all three platforms / IT guy
I got iLife, but thanks for your interest.
Not to mention the video conversion tools are laughable when compared to the mac / linux side.
It's not so much Apple-infused comedy, it's more Apple-aware comedy.
Actually, it's not really comedy, it's really kind of sad.
Think I'll go cry.... (not)
Tell that to a user that decides between which level of multiple core cpu they buy to run exactly the same piece of software.....
Xbox 360 owners make no choice, and, as already covered in this thread, most PC users are oblivious.
Anyway, to further expand upon and clarify my previous statement, Microsoft is working towards making Xbox 360 and "Games for Windows" (aka worst branding ever) into one platform for developers. Thus, it makes far more sense to combine the Xbox 360 and Windows PC into one platform than it does to add Xbox 360 to the Mac numbers just because it uses a variant of a processor that Apple once used.
Anyway, does this forum have no moderators? I think it counts as spam when 25% of the posts in a 60-post thread are from one user and includes triple-posting and self-replies.
Xbox 360 owners owners make no choice, and, as already covered in this thread, most PC users are oblivious.
Anyway, does this forum have no moderators? I think it counts as spam when 25% of the posts in a 60-post thread are from one user and includes triple-posting and self-replies.
Agreed.