oh noes! the price of the ipod touch might drive people to get an iphone instead? i'm sure apple doesn't know what to do about that.
-or-
People look at the Nano and see that the sam capacity Touch is only $70 more for the 8GB model for all those additional HW and SW features, and it helps grow the App Store.
"Everyone else does it." When others advertise phones at half-price, they are certainly not including the service contract. And they're under no obligation to tell you why it's selling to you at a discount from the previous price. In this case and in many other industries, subsidies are used to allow one party (such as a retailer) to sell something at lower cost without hurting that party, while another party absorbs the cost difference in exchange for something else - future dollars via service contract, marketing exposure, etc.
Having said that, I wish Apple would be a leader and rise above what everyone else does even if it costs them a bit (and I say this as an Apple stockholder! Ouch.)
Aren't those always asterisked and clarified at the bottom?
We've gone over this so many times. They aren't specifying one way or the other. They are purposely, and legally, being vague. Do you think it's possible that people are not being made aware of what the "with subscription to AT&T" involves prior to signing the contract? How is this any different when other phones are being advertised as 'free'?
Come here an lobby for change. I would support full financial requirements in advertising.
I'm not sure where US companies are required to disclose the info. In print ads they dont' have to have the disclosres on the same page as the ad (see recent AI BestBuy ad article). There is a difference in the way the terms are used. Apple is using "Twice the speed. Half the price." as a marketing slogan, but simply stating a phone is 'free' is not a slogan. We'll need a better class of posters in here to determine how slogans are allowed to work and where info is required to be disclosed, but you still haven't told me how anyone could buy an iPhone and not be made aware of the 24 month contract to AT&T.
The macro economy is hard right now so people are going to prefer to save $30 up-front but spend $1000 - $2000 more over the course of a 24-month contract? What a tool!
How about a another option? Like maybe getting neither? Or maybe wait for price drop?
Advertising is like a first date. It's designed to be misleading. You point out the good aspects, hide the bad ones and hope your comments about "being an entrepreneur" which is reselling stolen software on eBay and your comments about "owning your house" because your on your elderly grandmother's deed which you live with, don't reveal the whole truth.
PS: There is a reason why in a US court of law you swear to tell "the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth", as opposed to just telling the truth.
There's no use arguing economics with a guy who doesn't know the difference between "cost" and "price" and in fact uses them interchangeably in the same sentence.
They tried it a comprise last year with the revenue sharing. It allowed Apple to not sell the iPhone at too huge an initial cost but keep it from using the typical subsidization model.
Oops, I wasn't clear. I just meant that Apple should try not to use advertising slogans that could be deemed as misleading, even if everyone else does.
I agree with you though on your comment. The previous method was much more clear with regard to the value and cost of the phone. Apple just wasn't "powerful" enough to get more carriers to go along.
And at the bottom it says: * Comparisons between iPhone 3G (8GB) and first-generation iPhone (8GB) running on EDGE. Actual speeds vary by site conditions. Requires new two-year AT&T rate plan, sold separately to qualified customers. Visit www.wireless.att.com for eligibility information.
I agree with you though on your comment. The previous method was much more clear with regard to the value and cost of the phone. Apple just wasn't "powerful" enough to get more carriers to go along.
It's too bad, too, because the subsidization model (as seem on thread, alone) isn't good for the The iPhone is far from perfect or being the best device for everyone, but least Apple was able to push some new energy into the cell phone market. I think the rampant mediocracy that the US market faced was because of the subsidization model instilled by the carriers. They tied the customer to their network and push the HW as being worthless. You don't see that in markets where the customers buy their HW outright.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denton
The macro economy is hard right now so people are going to prefer to save $30 up-front but spend $1000 - $2000 more over the course of a 24-month contract? What a tool!
You aren't acknowledging that people tend to already pay for a cellphone contract.
AMEN! I was hoping for a REAL price cut. So stupid that the touch costs the same as an iPhone. Less functionality should equal LOWER PRICE!
STILL waiting to replace my 3G iPod with an affordable replacement...
First off, "analyst Maynard Um sounds a little... um... indecisive.
Think of the iphone as a extremely attractive woman with perfect looks everything you like to see and the ipod touch as a very attractive woman but missing one or two features whether its height, breast, bottom etc.
Both women were impressed into dating you due to your great first impression you made with your designed clothing that you rented that night (initial investment).
The perfect woman (iPhone) you have to buy her at least one present a month or else she will break up with you and you lose your laptop that you left at her place (cancellation fee). This woman has a free subscription to a magazine that increase her performance in bed once in a while (free software updates).
The very attractive woman with imperfections (iTouch) requires no gift giving. You can still buy her things that will make her happy (app store...) but she will be totally dedicated to you even if you do not purchase anything. This woman also recently fixed one or two of her imperfections (speaker, volume rocker) and lost a little weight. Occasionally, OPTIONAL new books become available that you can purchase to increase her performance in bed.
Um, I whipped it up sorta quickly, but is this close?
And at the bottom it says: * Comparisons between iPhone 3G (8GB) and first-generation iPhone (8GB) running on EDGE. Actual speeds vary by site conditions. Requires new two-year AT&T rate plan, sold separately to qualified customers. Visit www.wireless.att.com for eligibility information.
Sold Separately to Qualified Customers
In what sense is it sold separately? They won't give you a phone unless you sign up for a plan. It may be legal, but it's utter bullshit.
In what sense is it sold separately? They won't give you a phone unless you sign up for a plan. It may be legal, but it's utter bullshit.
A purchase is an agreement between the buyer and seller. If you go into an Apple Store you buy the iPhone from Apple, but you buy the carrier services from AT&T. These are separate purchases. If you go into an AT&T store, I doubt that you'll see the words "sold separately" on any of AT&T's iPhone literature.
edit: Nope. AT&T lists it on its iPhone page for their stores. "Requires new two-year AT&T rate plan, sold separately to qualified customers."
There's no use arguing economics with a guy who doesn't know the difference between "cost" and "price" and in fact uses them interchangeably in the same sentence.
Since when is explaining advertising "arguing economics", Rodney Dangerfield?
And at the bottom it says: * Comparisons between iPhone 3G (8GB) and first-generation iPhone (8GB) running on EDGE. Actual speeds vary by site conditions. Requires new two-year AT&T rate plan, sold separately to qualified customers. Visit www.wireless.att.com for eligibility information.
Sold Separately to Qualified Customers
Ok- it's there now but was not on the main page when it existed nor in print adds nor on TV adds is it spoken in hyper-speed. But that's a start.
Wow! It is truly unbelievable how many people fail to understand mobile phone subsidies provided by the carrier. My god, do you people have functioning gray matter?
You aren't acknowledging that people tend to already pay for a cellphone contract.
People may already have a cellphone contract, but purchasing an iPhone requires starting a NEW two-year agreement, and paying off any existing contract (i.e., paying an early termination fee to another carrier, or paying an extra $200 to AT&T if you're not yet eligible for a new iPhone contract).
The fact is, when you enter into any new two-year phone contract, most of the money you pay each month is for the service, but part of it is your "mortgage" on the phone. You pay the $200 down payment on your $400+ phone, and then you continue paying off the rest of the phone's cost (plus interest) each month.
To get out of your contract, you have to pay an early termination fee -- you're basically paying off the rest of the principal on your phone mortgage (no jokes about subprime phone mortgages, please).
Comments
The same way a poster that says FREE infers the phone and service is free.
Those use an asterisk and in small print at the botttom the add clarifies it.
oh noes! the price of the ipod touch might drive people to get an iphone instead? i'm sure apple doesn't know what to do about that.
-or-
People look at the Nano and see that the sam capacity Touch is only $70 more for the 8GB model for all those additional HW and SW features, and it helps grow the App Store.
oh noes! the price of the ipod touch might drive people to get an iphone instead? i'm sure apple doesn't know what to do about that.
And switch carriers?
No way, no how, no ......
"Everyone else does it." When others advertise phones at half-price, they are certainly not including the service contract. And they're under no obligation to tell you why it's selling to you at a discount from the previous price. In this case and in many other industries, subsidies are used to allow one party (such as a retailer) to sell something at lower cost without hurting that party, while another party absorbs the cost difference in exchange for something else - future dollars via service contract, marketing exposure, etc.
Having said that, I wish Apple would be a leader and rise above what everyone else does even if it costs them a bit (and I say this as an Apple stockholder! Ouch.)
Aren't those always asterisked and clarified at the bottom?
We've gone over this so many times. They aren't specifying one way or the other. They are purposely, and legally, being vague. Do you think it's possible that people are not being made aware of what the "with subscription to AT&T" involves prior to signing the contract? How is this any different when other phones are being advertised as 'free'?
Come here an lobby for change. I would support full financial requirements in advertising.
And again - where's the asterisk?
And again - where's the asterisk?
Teckstud - you are a broken record. How old are you?
And again - where's the asterisk?
I'm not sure where US companies are required to disclose the info. In print ads they dont' have to have the disclosres on the same page as the ad (see recent AI BestBuy ad article). There is a difference in the way the terms are used. Apple is using "Twice the speed. Half the price." as a marketing slogan, but simply stating a phone is 'free' is not a slogan. We'll need a better class of posters in here to determine how slogans are allowed to work and where info is required to be disclosed, but you still haven't told me how anyone could buy an iPhone and not be made aware of the 24 month contract to AT&T.
The macro economy is hard right now so people are going to prefer to save $30 up-front but spend $1000 - $2000 more over the course of a 24-month contract? What a tool!
How about a another option? Like maybe getting neither? Or maybe wait for price drop?
Advertising is like a first date. It's designed to be misleading. You point out the good aspects, hide the bad ones and hope your comments about "being an entrepreneur" which is reselling stolen software on eBay and your comments about "owning your house" because your on your elderly grandmother's deed which you live with, don't reveal the whole truth.
PS: There is a reason why in a US court of law you swear to tell "the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth", as opposed to just telling the truth.
There's no use arguing economics with a guy who doesn't know the difference between "cost" and "price" and in fact uses them interchangeably in the same sentence.
They tried it a comprise last year with the revenue sharing. It allowed Apple to not sell the iPhone at too huge an initial cost but keep it from using the typical subsidization model.
Oops, I wasn't clear. I just meant that Apple should try not to use advertising slogans that could be deemed as misleading, even if everyone else does.
I agree with you though on your comment. The previous method was much more clear with regard to the value and cost of the phone. Apple just wasn't "powerful" enough to get more carriers to go along.
And again - where's the asterisk?
Right there on the page. www.apple.com/iphone
And at the bottom it says: * Comparisons between iPhone 3G (8GB) and first-generation iPhone (8GB) running on EDGE. Actual speeds vary by site conditions. Requires new two-year AT&T rate plan, sold separately to qualified customers. Visit www.wireless.att.com for eligibility information.
Sold Separately to Qualified Customers
I agree with you though on your comment. The previous method was much more clear with regard to the value and cost of the phone. Apple just wasn't "powerful" enough to get more carriers to go along.
It's too bad, too, because the subsidization model (as seem on thread, alone) isn't good for the The iPhone is far from perfect or being the best device for everyone, but least Apple was able to push some new energy into the cell phone market. I think the rampant mediocracy that the US market faced was because of the subsidization model instilled by the carriers. They tied the customer to their network and push the HW as being worthless. You don't see that in markets where the customers buy their HW outright.
The macro economy is hard right now so people are going to prefer to save $30 up-front but spend $1000 - $2000 more over the course of a 24-month contract? What a tool!
You aren't acknowledging that people tend to already pay for a cellphone contract.
AMEN! I was hoping for a REAL price cut. So stupid that the touch costs the same as an iPhone. Less functionality should equal LOWER PRICE!
STILL waiting to replace my 3G iPod with an affordable replacement...
First off, "analyst Maynard Um sounds a little... um... indecisive.
Think of the iphone as a extremely attractive woman with perfect looks everything you like to see and the ipod touch as a very attractive woman but missing one or two features whether its height, breast, bottom etc.
Both women were impressed into dating you due to your great first impression you made with your designed clothing that you rented that night (initial investment).
The perfect woman (iPhone) you have to buy her at least one present a month or else she will break up with you and you lose your laptop that you left at her place (cancellation fee). This woman has a free subscription to a magazine that increase her performance in bed once in a while (free software updates).
The very attractive woman with imperfections (iTouch) requires no gift giving. You can still buy her things that will make her happy (app store...) but she will be totally dedicated to you even if you do not purchase anything. This woman also recently fixed one or two of her imperfections (speaker, volume rocker) and lost a little weight. Occasionally, OPTIONAL new books become available that you can purchase to increase her performance in bed.
Um, I whipped it up sorta quickly, but is this close?
Right there on the page. www.apple.com/iphone
And at the bottom it says: * Comparisons between iPhone 3G (8GB) and first-generation iPhone (8GB) running on EDGE. Actual speeds vary by site conditions. Requires new two-year AT&T rate plan, sold separately to qualified customers. Visit www.wireless.att.com for eligibility information.
Sold Separately to Qualified Customers
In what sense is it sold separately? They won't give you a phone unless you sign up for a plan. It may be legal, but it's utter bullshit.
In what sense is it sold separately? They won't give you a phone unless you sign up for a plan. It may be legal, but it's utter bullshit.
A purchase is an agreement between the buyer and seller. If you go into an Apple Store you buy the iPhone from Apple, but you buy the carrier services from AT&T. These are separate purchases. If you go into an AT&T store, I doubt that you'll see the words "sold separately" on any of AT&T's iPhone literature.
edit: Nope. AT&T lists it on its iPhone page for their stores. "Requires new two-year AT&T rate plan, sold separately to qualified customers."
There's no use arguing economics with a guy who doesn't know the difference between "cost" and "price" and in fact uses them interchangeably in the same sentence.
Since when is explaining advertising "arguing economics", Rodney Dangerfield?
Right there on the page. www.apple.com/iphone
And at the bottom it says: * Comparisons between iPhone 3G (8GB) and first-generation iPhone (8GB) running on EDGE. Actual speeds vary by site conditions. Requires new two-year AT&T rate plan, sold separately to qualified customers. Visit www.wireless.att.com for eligibility information.
Sold Separately to Qualified Customers
Ok- it's there now but was not on the main page when it existed nor in print adds nor on TV adds is it spoken in hyper-speed. But that's a start.
Ok- it's there now but was not on the main page when it existed nor in print adds nor on TV adds is it spoken in hyper-speed. But that's a start.
It's always been on the iPhone page. Print ads don't require the disclaimers to be made on the same page, it looks like web ads don't either.
You aren't acknowledging that people tend to already pay for a cellphone contract.
People may already have a cellphone contract, but purchasing an iPhone requires starting a NEW two-year agreement, and paying off any existing contract (i.e., paying an early termination fee to another carrier, or paying an extra $200 to AT&T if you're not yet eligible for a new iPhone contract).
The fact is, when you enter into any new two-year phone contract, most of the money you pay each month is for the service, but part of it is your "mortgage" on the phone. You pay the $200 down payment on your $400+ phone, and then you continue paying off the rest of the phone's cost (plus interest) each month.
To get out of your contract, you have to pay an early termination fee -- you're basically paying off the rest of the principal on your phone mortgage (no jokes about subprime phone mortgages, please).