Well, there are no professionals who find Adobe expensive, because of all the money it earns them, and it's on par price-wise to Logic, and a lot cheaper than Final Cut, so unless you think they're overprices too, you can't fault Adobe.
I think pretty much everybody that has and will comment/complain in this thread has nothing to do with the professional design industry, and most likely pirate most of their software anyways, or are used to paying max $60 for their Lego Star Wars. I at least haven't heard nearly as many people complaining about paying $130 bucks+ for a .1 upgrade of OSX. (oh really, Time Machine and Spaces are worth 25% of an Adobe Suite, you say?)
Absolutely right about pros vs. the whiners posting here. As long as the software performs and improves productivity, it's worth every penny. I will wait for 4 to 6 months to see if there are any horrible bugs that need to be squashed before risking an upgrade. The price is not really an issue.
I agree. Multiple pages and page sizes in Illustrator is enough for me, lol. Someone needs to counsel Adobe on what product features actually make for a good teaser.
The multiple canvases in Illustrator is a very exciting feature. I've created files with literally 50 or 60 different layouts in them that share common elements that I then need to copy to different files. This kind of design work is not conducive to the awkward InDesign app, so it must be completed in Illustrator. I'm liking what I'm seeing so far...
That rotating canvas feature would have been so helpful when I made money off of doing artwork years ago. From what I've seen on Adobe's website videos, it looks like a nice upgrade.
The high upgrade prices and the convoluted way Adobe has long time users install the app has gradually pushed me towards other software.
I'm put off by the 20-30+ character serial #s of some software, especially when they combine letters that look like numbers.
That said, I still look forward to the lengthy reviews that will be arriving soon.
Well, there are no professionals who find Adobe expensive, because of all the money it earns them, and it's on par price-wise to Logic, and a lot cheaper than Final Cut, so unless you think they're overprices too, you can't fault Adobe.
I think pretty much everybody that has and will comment/complain in this thread has nothing to do with the professional design industry, and most likely pirate most of their software anyways, or are used to paying max $60 for their Lego Star Wars. I at least haven't heard nearly as many people complaining about paying $130 bucks+ for a .1 upgrade of OSX. (oh really, Time Machine and Spaces are worth 25% of an Adobe Suite, you say?)
$130+ for OSX ? Where do i sign up ? Also i didnt see apple charging 200 Euro's for $100 software.
I cant stand people who cant see beyond their own nose and you're one of those tools.
Well, there are no professionals who find Adobe expensive, because of all the money it earns them, and it's on par price-wise to Logic, and a lot cheaper than Final Cut, so unless you think they're overprices too, you can't fault Adobe.
Agreed. I just dropped $30K on an HD deck, with the add-in cards. Software's next to nothing in comparison.
I just wish Adobe would stop the bloat and make things more reliable. I really like After Effects CS3, but every other piece of software in CS3 (I use Photoshop and Illustrator a lot) is slow and crashy.
InDesign CS4 also includes Adobe InCopy CS4 and InDesign CS4 Server, which can be customized, scaled and extended to meet the evolving needs of publishers.
Adobe said:
Adobe InDesign CS4 is at the center of the InDesign publishing family that also includes Adobe InCopy® CS4 and InDesign CS4 Server. This line of products can be customized, scaled and extended to meet evolving needs.
Estimated street price for the Adobe InDesign CS4 is US$699 and US$249 for Adobe InCopy CS4. Adobe InDesign CS4 Server will also be available to qualified Adobe developer partners........
I inferred from your article that InCopy and Server were now included in the CS package for free. They are still standalone products based on Adobe's full press release. Please adjust. Context is important.
I like their integration of the recently developed 'content aware scaling' feature. This could hugely affect the retouching business. Also, the simple painting on 3D objects is just a great productivity feature. Yay!
I am actually impressed with the new feature set for the applications. Last week we all had a glimpse of some new features and needless to say they didn't exactly exhume confidence in a worthwhile upgrade. Why Adobe chose to leak a load of boring sh1te first is beyond me - if all they had said about was the canvas rotation in photoshop I would have been far more excited.
But I have to agree with other commenters on the Prices. If I lived in the US i wouldn't complain too much, but in Europe we are being shafted by greedy %*@!s Adobe once again. They call it "the cost of doing business abroad" I once read. I'm sorry Adobe, it does NOT cost you several hundred dollars extra to sell ONE BOX of CS4 abroad. Twats.
Adobe would need to "exhume" my confidence in them, it has been dead and buried for many a year. And no they are not getting me to upgrade. This time I think a lot of studios are going to say "Pass, next one please".
Looks to me like the new interface alone is worth the price of the upgrade. Adobe has been getting by with its funky old hodgepodge of an interface for so long that I had stopped believing it would ever change. But it just has!
Well, there are no professionals who find Adobe expensive, because of all the money it earns them, and it's on par price-wise to Logic, and a lot cheaper than Final Cut, so unless you think they're overprices too, you can't fault Adobe.
I think pretty much everybody that has and will comment/complain in this thread has nothing to do with the professional design industry, and most likely pirate most of their software anyways, or are used to paying max $60 for their Lego Star Wars. I at least haven't heard nearly as many people complaining about paying $130 bucks+ for a .1 upgrade of OSX. (oh really, Time Machine and Spaces are worth 25% of an Adobe Suite, you say?)
That's quite an assumption you make. I'm a Graphic Designer and Art Director with a valid license for Creative Suite, CS2 and CS3 and I've been in the industry for 15 years. I'm very seriously considering skipping this whole revision. The new features are interesting but I'm not sure they're $600-interesting, even when my obvious tax write-off. It's not a matter of finding $600 expensive - That's less than a day's fee for me. But it's a matter of seeing whether or not there's value there. $600 buys me some nice camera gear, which is also a write-off and more entertaining.
My clients don't particuarly care which program creates the Press-Optimized PDFs they use so I don't see a pressing need to rush out and buy CS4. This, from a guy who loves to buy new software and keep updated. I might buy CS4 just to keep in the update cycles and because CS3 has been ceaselessly buggy for me, but the jury is still out.
That's quite an assumption you make. I'm a Graphic Designer and Art Director with a valid license for Creative Suite, CS2 and CS3 and I've been in the industry for 15 years. I'm very seriously considering skipping this whole revision. The new features are interesting but I'm not sure they're $0-interesting, even when my obvious tax write-off. It's not a matter of finding $0 expensive - That's less than a day's fee for me. But it's a matter of seeing whether or not there's value there. $0 buys me some nice camera gear, which is also a write-off and more entertaining.
My clients don't particuarly care which program creates the Press-Optimized PDFs they use so I don't see a pressing need to rush out and buy CS4. This, from a guy who loves to buy new software and keep updated. I might buy CS4 just to keep in the update cycles and because CS3 has been ceaselessly buggy for me, but the jury is still out.
All fine and dandy with the InDesign and Photoshop enhancements, but what about Dreamweaver? Are they just taking Dreamweaver CS3 and slapping a CS4 sticker on it?
I've played with the CS4 beta, and it's unimpressive at best. Check out Textmate, it's a much better solution.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Messiah
You can also be damn sure that CS4 won't work properly with the upcoming OS X 10.6 release, and that you'll be back to square one, waiting on Adobe to release CS5.
This is my concern as well. I like to keep ALL my software up to date, not just the Adobe suite. When the newest version of the Apple OS and Adobe's CS don't play well together, I'll take Apple's side.
Quote:
Originally Posted by admactanium
My clients don't particuarly care which program creates the Press-Optimized PDFs they use so I don't see a pressing need to rush out and buy CS4. This, from a guy who loves to buy new software and keep updated. I might buy CS4 just to keep in the update cycles and because CS3 has been ceaselessly buggy for me, but the jury is still out.
I'm in this situation to some degree. I ordered it already, should be available for download on Oct. 14. But I was among the first to jump from Quark to Adobe and I'll be among the first to jump from Adobe to Apple (or whomever puts out a viable alternative to InDesign, PSD, AI, and Flash). Adobe has made it clear they have no intention of working closely with Apple, the 64-bit situation a shining example of Adobe's willingness to point fingers and shift blame. Apple is my platform of choice, if I had to work on Windows I'd find another career. Adobe seems to be confused about this mindset. They've emulated Windows one-window GUI theory as well. I realize you can turn that "feature" off to some degree, but it just goes to show where Adobe's thinking has gone. Multiple windows and programs showing isn't called "clutter" in my opinion, it's called "efficiency". Being able to drag and drop between CS apps is a big part of my workflow.I haven't tried CS4 yet, so I'll reserve final judgement, but my opinion of Adobe continues to be lowered. I'm still a fan-boy of their InDesign developers, but overall...
Honestly, the price doesn't really bother me. It's a bit high, sure, but it's what they can get for it. I don't know any professional design entities making less than $100/hour, and part of that is supposed to go to software/hardware/fonts/etc.
What does bother me is Adobe's apparent inability to do more than skin MM's legacy programs (I honestly think Flash should embarrass them, the only reason I use it is because I have to ? Flash CS3 should still be in beta). I'm also more than a little vexed that Adobe can't play well with Apple. I don't agree with their carbon-64 excuse, they should have started rewriting the CS in Cocoa from the beginning. That was Apple's plan from OS 10.0, and Adobe wanted to wait and see if they were serious.
Any talented, young and hungry developers out there with a bit of VC?: I'd start seriously thinking about what it would take to give Adobe a run for their money.
Adobe has been charging upgrade prices like this for a while...
I still don't understand Adobe's upgrade scheme. I can upgrade Photoshop, InDesign, Illustrator and Dreamweaver separately for $199. each. That's $796. total.
Upgrade to Design Premium (from any one of those products): $1399.
For the extra money, I get the 'extended' version of Photoshop I don't need; Flash, which I hate; and the full version of Acrobat, which I'm not sure if I'll have occasion to use.
I also get locked into buying the suite upgrades from here on, whereas now I can upgrade whatever I wish.
I have no idea what you meant by that. Am I supposed to be able to get CS4 for free? I have relatives who work at Adobe and even then I don't get it for completely free.
Quote:
Originally Posted by javaporter
I'm in this situation to some degree. I ordered it already, should be available for download on Oct. 14. But I was among the first to jump from Quark to Adobe and I'll be among the first to jump from Adobe to Apple (or whomever puts out a viable alternative to InDesign, PSD, AI, and Flash). Adobe has made it clear they have no intention of working closely with Apple, the 64-bit situation a shining example of Adobe's willingness to point fingers and shift blame. Apple is my platform of choice, if I had to work on Windows I'd find another career. Adobe seems to be confused about this mindset. They've emulated Windows one-window GUI theory as well. I realize you can turn that "feature" off to some degree, but it just goes to show where Adobe's thinking has gone. Multiple windows and programs showing isn't called "clutter" in my opinion, it's called "efficiency". Being able to drag and drop between CS apps is a big part of my workflow.I haven't tried CS4 yet, so I'll reserve final judgement, but my opinion of Adobe continues to be lowered. I'm still a fan-boy of their InDesign developers, but overall...
Honestly, the price doesn't really bother me. It's a bit high, sure, but it's what they can get for it. I don't know any professional design entities making less than $100/hour, and part of that is supposed to go to software/hardware/fonts/etc.
I switched to InDesign very early as well. The agency I worked for at the time was one of the largest installations of InDesign over Quark at that time. I was the first Art Director to make the change and I had been a Quark user for 10 years. I'm quite fond of InDesign.. And like I said before, I can easily afford the upgrade price of CS4, but I'm not sure it's that much of a value yet. It all depends on the reviews of the new features, but from what I've read so far it's not a "no-brainer" upgrade like CS2->CS3 was to get Intel-native applications.
Comments
Well, there are no professionals who find Adobe expensive, because of all the money it earns them, and it's on par price-wise to Logic, and a lot cheaper than Final Cut, so unless you think they're overprices too, you can't fault Adobe.
I think pretty much everybody that has and will comment/complain in this thread has nothing to do with the professional design industry, and most likely pirate most of their software anyways, or are used to paying max $60 for their Lego Star Wars. I at least haven't heard nearly as many people complaining about paying $130 bucks+ for a .1 upgrade of OSX. (oh really, Time Machine and Spaces are worth 25% of an Adobe Suite, you say?
Absolutely right about pros vs. the whiners posting here. As long as the software performs and improves productivity, it's worth every penny. I will wait for 4 to 6 months to see if there are any horrible bugs that need to be squashed before risking an upgrade. The price is not really an issue.
I agree. Multiple pages and page sizes in Illustrator is enough for me, lol. Someone needs to counsel Adobe on what product features actually make for a good teaser.
The multiple canvases in Illustrator is a very exciting feature. I've created files with literally 50 or 60 different layouts in them that share common elements that I then need to copy to different files. This kind of design work is not conducive to the awkward InDesign app, so it must be completed in Illustrator. I'm liking what I'm seeing so far...
The high upgrade prices and the convoluted way Adobe has long time users install the app has gradually pushed me towards other software.
I'm put off by the 20-30+ character serial #s of some software, especially when they combine letters that look like numbers.
That said, I still look forward to the lengthy reviews that will be arriving soon.
Well, there are no professionals who find Adobe expensive, because of all the money it earns them, and it's on par price-wise to Logic, and a lot cheaper than Final Cut, so unless you think they're overprices too, you can't fault Adobe.
I think pretty much everybody that has and will comment/complain in this thread has nothing to do with the professional design industry, and most likely pirate most of their software anyways, or are used to paying max $60 for their Lego Star Wars. I at least haven't heard nearly as many people complaining about paying $130 bucks+ for a .1 upgrade of OSX. (oh really, Time Machine and Spaces are worth 25% of an Adobe Suite, you say?
$130+ for OSX ? Where do i sign up ? Also i didnt see apple charging 200 Euro's for $100 software.
I cant stand people who cant see beyond their own nose and you're one of those tools.
Well, there are no professionals who find Adobe expensive, because of all the money it earns them, and it's on par price-wise to Logic, and a lot cheaper than Final Cut, so unless you think they're overprices too, you can't fault Adobe.
Agreed. I just dropped $30K on an HD deck, with the add-in cards. Software's next to nothing in comparison.
I just wish Adobe would stop the bloat and make things more reliable. I really like After Effects CS3, but every other piece of software in CS3 (I use Photoshop and Illustrator a lot) is slow and crashy.
InDesign CS4 also includes Adobe InCopy CS4 and InDesign CS4 Server, which can be customized, scaled and extended to meet the evolving needs of publishers.
Adobe said:
Adobe InDesign CS4 is at the center of the InDesign publishing family that also includes Adobe InCopy® CS4 and InDesign CS4 Server. This line of products can be customized, scaled and extended to meet evolving needs.
Estimated street price for the Adobe InDesign CS4 is US$699 and US$249 for Adobe InCopy CS4. Adobe InDesign CS4 Server will also be available to qualified Adobe developer partners........
I inferred from your article that InCopy and Server were now included in the CS package for free. They are still standalone products based on Adobe's full press release. Please adjust. Context is important.
Can't wait to give it a shot when we get it at the office!
Jimzip
Cool! A welcome surprise this morning. Still too many combinations and versions, but an eagerly-awaited release with a slick new feature list!
Can't wait to give it a shot when we get it at the office!
Jimzip
I just got the entire Adobe Suite for free.
I am actually impressed with the new feature set for the applications. Last week we all had a glimpse of some new features and needless to say they didn't exactly exhume confidence in a worthwhile upgrade. Why Adobe chose to leak a load of boring sh1te first is beyond me - if all they had said about was the canvas rotation in photoshop I would have been far more excited.
But I have to agree with other commenters on the Prices. If I lived in the US i wouldn't complain too much, but in Europe we are being shafted by greedy %*@!s Adobe once again. They call it "the cost of doing business abroad" I once read. I'm sorry Adobe, it does NOT cost you several hundred dollars extra to sell ONE BOX of CS4 abroad. Twats.
Adobe would need to "exhume" my confidence in them, it has been dead and buried for many a year. And no they are not getting me to upgrade. This time I think a lot of studios are going to say "Pass, next one please".
I just got the entire Adobe Suite for free.
Your insightful statement will go down in the annals of history as one of the most enlightening!
Jimzip
Your insightful statement will go down in the annals of history as one of the most enlightening!
Jimzip
Thank you
It pretty much renders this entire thread arguing about price useless.
Well, there are no professionals who find Adobe expensive, because of all the money it earns them, and it's on par price-wise to Logic, and a lot cheaper than Final Cut, so unless you think they're overprices too, you can't fault Adobe.
I think pretty much everybody that has and will comment/complain in this thread has nothing to do with the professional design industry, and most likely pirate most of their software anyways, or are used to paying max $60 for their Lego Star Wars. I at least haven't heard nearly as many people complaining about paying $130 bucks+ for a .1 upgrade of OSX. (oh really, Time Machine and Spaces are worth 25% of an Adobe Suite, you say?
My clients don't particuarly care which program creates the Press-Optimized PDFs they use so I don't see a pressing need to rush out and buy CS4. This, from a guy who loves to buy new software and keep updated. I might buy CS4 just to keep in the update cycles and because CS3 has been ceaselessly buggy for me, but the jury is still out.
My clients don't particuarly care which program creates the Press-Optimized PDFs they use so I don't see a pressing need to rush out and buy CS4. This, from a guy who loves to buy new software and keep updated. I might buy CS4 just to keep in the update cycles and because CS3 has been ceaselessly buggy for me, but the jury is still out.
Fixed.
All fine and dandy with the InDesign and Photoshop enhancements, but what about Dreamweaver? Are they just taking Dreamweaver CS3 and slapping a CS4 sticker on it?
I've played with the CS4 beta, and it's unimpressive at best. Check out Textmate, it's a much better solution.
You can also be damn sure that CS4 won't work properly with the upcoming OS X 10.6 release, and that you'll be back to square one, waiting on Adobe to release CS5.
This is my concern as well. I like to keep ALL my software up to date, not just the Adobe suite. When the newest version of the Apple OS and Adobe's CS don't play well together, I'll take Apple's side.
My clients don't particuarly care which program creates the Press-Optimized PDFs they use so I don't see a pressing need to rush out and buy CS4. This, from a guy who loves to buy new software and keep updated. I might buy CS4 just to keep in the update cycles and because CS3 has been ceaselessly buggy for me, but the jury is still out.
I'm in this situation to some degree. I ordered it already, should be available for download on Oct. 14. But I was among the first to jump from Quark to Adobe and I'll be among the first to jump from Adobe to Apple (or whomever puts out a viable alternative to InDesign, PSD, AI, and Flash). Adobe has made it clear they have no intention of working closely with Apple, the 64-bit situation a shining example of Adobe's willingness to point fingers and shift blame. Apple is my platform of choice, if I had to work on Windows I'd find another career. Adobe seems to be confused about this mindset. They've emulated Windows one-window GUI theory as well. I realize you can turn that "feature" off to some degree, but it just goes to show where Adobe's thinking has gone. Multiple windows and programs showing isn't called "clutter" in my opinion, it's called "efficiency". Being able to drag and drop between CS apps is a big part of my workflow.I haven't tried CS4 yet, so I'll reserve final judgement, but my opinion of Adobe continues to be lowered. I'm still a fan-boy of their InDesign developers, but overall...
Honestly, the price doesn't really bother me. It's a bit high, sure, but it's what they can get for it. I don't know any professional design entities making less than $100/hour, and part of that is supposed to go to software/hardware/fonts/etc.
What does bother me is Adobe's apparent inability to do more than skin MM's legacy programs (I honestly think Flash should embarrass them, the only reason I use it is because I have to ? Flash CS3 should still be in beta). I'm also more than a little vexed that Adobe can't play well with Apple. I don't agree with their carbon-64 excuse, they should have started rewriting the CS in Cocoa from the beginning. That was Apple's plan from OS 10.0, and Adobe wanted to wait and see if they were serious.
Any talented, young and hungry developers out there with a bit of VC?: I'd start seriously thinking about what it would take to give Adobe a run for their money.
Adobe has been charging upgrade prices like this for a while...
I still don't understand Adobe's upgrade scheme. I can upgrade Photoshop, InDesign, Illustrator and Dreamweaver separately for $199. each. That's $796. total.
Upgrade to Design Premium (from any one of those products): $1399.
For the extra money, I get the 'extended' version of Photoshop I don't need; Flash, which I hate; and the full version of Acrobat, which I'm not sure if I'll have occasion to use.
I also get locked into buying the suite upgrades from here on, whereas now I can upgrade whatever I wish.
How is the suite a better value?
Fixed.
I have no idea what you meant by that. Am I supposed to be able to get CS4 for free? I have relatives who work at Adobe and even then I don't get it for completely free.
I'm in this situation to some degree. I ordered it already, should be available for download on Oct. 14. But I was among the first to jump from Quark to Adobe and I'll be among the first to jump from Adobe to Apple (or whomever puts out a viable alternative to InDesign, PSD, AI, and Flash). Adobe has made it clear they have no intention of working closely with Apple, the 64-bit situation a shining example of Adobe's willingness to point fingers and shift blame. Apple is my platform of choice, if I had to work on Windows I'd find another career. Adobe seems to be confused about this mindset. They've emulated Windows one-window GUI theory as well. I realize you can turn that "feature" off to some degree, but it just goes to show where Adobe's thinking has gone. Multiple windows and programs showing isn't called "clutter" in my opinion, it's called "efficiency". Being able to drag and drop between CS apps is a big part of my workflow.I haven't tried CS4 yet, so I'll reserve final judgement, but my opinion of Adobe continues to be lowered. I'm still a fan-boy of their InDesign developers, but overall...
Honestly, the price doesn't really bother me. It's a bit high, sure, but it's what they can get for it. I don't know any professional design entities making less than $100/hour, and part of that is supposed to go to software/hardware/fonts/etc.
I switched to InDesign very early as well. The agency I worked for at the time was one of the largest installations of InDesign over Quark at that time. I was the first Art Director to make the change and I had been a Quark user for 10 years. I'm quite fond of InDesign.. And like I said before, I can easily afford the upgrade price of CS4, but I'm not sure it's that much of a value yet. It all depends on the reviews of the new features, but from what I've read so far it's not a "no-brainer" upgrade like CS2->CS3 was to get Intel-native applications.