They also need to get rid of the whining cry-babies that complain about the price of a $9.99 or less application. The price is not a review of the application!
I wish this had gone in before I released my app 2 weeks ago.
Thanks to this nonsense, my game (Rogue Vertex), was released on Sept 14th but was immediately buried under a rush of new updates... so we never got on the first page of anything.
I submitted an app update on Wednesday (adds some new features and some polish) and I was hopeful that we'd finally appear on a "new games" list somewhere. Now, it appears on page 3 of the action games category. That's better but I definitely missed out on my moment in the spotlight due to Apple's slowness in properly categorizing my game and the rush of updates that pushed me back several pages before I was even visible on the store.
I agree with the above post though - users should be able to sort by update release dates, and the original release date.
I have similar feelings about the commenting system and my little toy Jack In The Box app. It amuses my kids to no end and I'm sure there are customer out there that would like it, but it immediately got a one-star review from someone saying "It's not a game!" (I'd filed it in Games:Kids). Ahh well. I wasn't expecting to get rich off of it.
User reviews are to be totally ignored by anyone with half a brain. They should not even exist and are too easily manipulated by anonymous posters either with personal agendas or vendettas to push. Just take a look at the normal Apple Store, VersionTracker, C|Net or any other site that allows user reviews. The whole concept is a cruel joke.
Thank god... the review section of the app store was a mess. Got tired of reading "Should be free" or "Was free on the jail broken iPhone", blah, blah, blah... pretty much kept me from reading any of the reviews. Now hopefully, it'll be worth it.
That's where a little software on Apple's end could have helped us all out. Instead, you've gone along with their proverbial "throwing the baby out with the bath water."
Several other options--none mutually exclusive--were available to Apple, such as banning overly prolific commenters, monitoring postings and deleting the junk, allowing people to post comments without reviewing, providing viewing options, etc.
Quote:
If there is a particular application you're interested in, I suggest you remember the app or write it down somewhere, so you can look it up at another time. If you can't do this simple task, then the application really isn't all that important to you.
Sorry, I already own all the apps I care to own. I browse to see what might pique my interest, and I buy if an app looks to be good enough. Your suggestion of taking notes and such is really out of the question.
Quote:
The iTunes store is a market place, those other sites you mentioned [versiontracker.com and macupdate.com] are update aggregates, specifically designed to let you know of updates, they are not responsible for fair listings or sales, there is no liability.
You didn't really answer the question. I would point out that Apple has a conflict of interest, with an interest in promoting sales of bad software by suppressing bad reviews. Apple is not 100% on the consumer's side in this.
And there is always the potential for liability, even for mere update notification sites. As long as a plaintiff wants to try to take you to court, you're subject to being screwed.
it's a solution, but personally i don't feel like it's necessarily a good solution for either apple or developers. Not only does it not solve the problems it was meant to solve, but I think it will lower sales for the 'long tail' which is bad for both, right?
first off, was developers leaving their own reviews or having friends do it /really/ that big of a deal? If you are making a purchase based on other peoples opinions and then you didn't like the app, that's really your own fault... second, I dont' think this will stop developers leaving their own reviews (which will only be more visible now that only people who bought the app can leave reviews). Apple only takes a 30% cut, so if developers find that comments really do boost sales by enough, they might find it's worth it to spend a few bucks and get 70% of that back to boost their reviews. I think it has some positive and negative effects, but overall I don't think it's going to help much.
Also, the update thing- I only see that as bad for everyone. Small developers (which are probably most of the store) will now only be focused on getting apps out as quickly as possible, and will never support or update them after that, because it simply won't be worth it. Even if they want to, they might not have the time since they need to be putting new apps out to keep the money coming in. All those old apps will just be getting stale at the bottom of the lists, not generating money for the developer or apple. It may be good for the large companies with many people employed that can take time on making large apps, but not for the smaller developers. At the very least I agree with the other people here who say users should be able to sort based on different factors including latest updates etc. Anything that gives developers incentive to keep supporting their apps would be good for everyone
Would it be so bad to give the user the option to sort through by date released, and date updated? I agree with the making comment on app you only purchased, but feel the other move - Removing the sort by free app category, and forcing just release date app sorting will cause developers to bring out just new apps instead of updates, and the customer less freedom to browse.
Why is it apples going down the road of less freedom for customers? NO option to roll back Upgrades on ipod and iphone updates that don't work for some models and now no option to sort by update and removal of the free app category on the left hand side nav box.
I would agree that the App Store still needs a lot of work, and many of the suggestions already mentioned in this thread are good ones.
Even so, I'm glad to see Apple has blocked reviews from people who have never downloaded an app they're submitting a review for. This will, at the very least, get rid of people who don't understand the difference between "review" and "forum", and post 1 or 5 star reviews to ask questions or complain that you can't buy apps with iTunes gift cards in Canada (as if that's a shortcoming of a particular app!), not to mention the "price trolls" who immediately post a 1 star "review" of anything over $10.
If anything, this change does more to stop misuse by users than developers. Admittedly, some of the developers releasing iPhone apps are complete retards too (like these idiots who put an "a" in front of their name to cheat and get their app listed first -- in case you hadn't noticed, when sorting by "Release Date", everything released on the same day is sub-sorted alphabetically). But by and large, the users are the bigger problem, app reviews are not meant to be a message board, and this will help stop that nonsense.
One thing I wish they would also do is go back and retroactively delete all the reviews posted by people who have never downloaded the app, before this rule went into effect.
What's wrong with having both "new releases" and "recently updated" as separate categories? Both provide useful information when trying to wade through thousands of apps.
also, apple has been known to reject apps for some pretty ridiculous reasons, but for some reason they don't know how to reject worthless updates?? Rejecting updates that dont' add much and were obviously done just to bump the app up would have been a much better solution than completely removing incentive to update.
I agree with the review policy but I think Apple is only 'punishing' its good customers by taking away the option to review all applications in the app store.
Comments
I wish this had gone in before I released my app 2 weeks ago.
Thanks to this nonsense, my game (Rogue Vertex), was released on Sept 14th but was immediately buried under a rush of new updates... so we never got on the first page of anything.
I submitted an app update on Wednesday (adds some new features and some polish) and I was hopeful that we'd finally appear on a "new games" list somewhere. Now, it appears on page 3 of the action games category. That's better but I definitely missed out on my moment in the spotlight due to Apple's slowness in properly categorizing my game and the rush of updates that pushed me back several pages before I was even visible on the store.
I agree with the above post though - users should be able to sort by update release dates, and the original release date.
I have similar feelings about the commenting system and my little toy Jack In The Box app. It amuses my kids to no end and I'm sure there are customer out there that would like it, but it immediately got a one-star review from someone saying "It's not a game!" (I'd filed it in Games:Kids). Ahh well. I wasn't expecting to get rich off of it.
Thank god... the review section of the app store was a mess. Got tired of reading "Should be free" or "Was free on the jail broken iPhone", blah, blah, blah... pretty much kept me from reading any of the reviews. Now hopefully, it'll be worth it.
That's where a little software on Apple's end could have helped us all out. Instead, you've gone along with their proverbial "throwing the baby out with the bath water."
Several other options--none mutually exclusive--were available to Apple, such as banning overly prolific commenters, monitoring postings and deleting the junk, allowing people to post comments without reviewing, providing viewing options, etc.
If there is a particular application you're interested in, I suggest you remember the app or write it down somewhere, so you can look it up at another time. If you can't do this simple task, then the application really isn't all that important to you.
Sorry, I already own all the apps I care to own. I browse to see what might pique my interest, and I buy if an app looks to be good enough. Your suggestion of taking notes and such is really out of the question.
The iTunes store is a market place, those other sites you mentioned [versiontracker.com and macupdate.com] are update aggregates, specifically designed to let you know of updates, they are not responsible for fair listings or sales, there is no liability.
You didn't really answer the question. I would point out that Apple has a conflict of interest, with an interest in promoting sales of bad software by suppressing bad reviews. Apple is not 100% on the consumer's side in this.
And there is always the potential for liability, even for mere update notification sites. As long as a plaintiff wants to try to take you to court, you're subject to being screwed.
first off, was developers leaving their own reviews or having friends do it /really/ that big of a deal? If you are making a purchase based on other peoples opinions and then you didn't like the app, that's really your own fault... second, I dont' think this will stop developers leaving their own reviews (which will only be more visible now that only people who bought the app can leave reviews). Apple only takes a 30% cut, so if developers find that comments really do boost sales by enough, they might find it's worth it to spend a few bucks and get 70% of that back to boost their reviews. I think it has some positive and negative effects, but overall I don't think it's going to help much.
Also, the update thing- I only see that as bad for everyone. Small developers (which are probably most of the store) will now only be focused on getting apps out as quickly as possible, and will never support or update them after that, because it simply won't be worth it. Even if they want to, they might not have the time since they need to be putting new apps out to keep the money coming in. All those old apps will just be getting stale at the bottom of the lists, not generating money for the developer or apple. It may be good for the large companies with many people employed that can take time on making large apps, but not for the smaller developers. At the very least I agree with the other people here who say users should be able to sort based on different factors including latest updates etc. Anything that gives developers incentive to keep supporting their apps would be good for everyone
Why is it apples going down the road of less freedom for customers? NO option to roll back Upgrades on ipod and iphone updates that don't work for some models and now no option to sort by update and removal of the free app category on the left hand side nav box.
Even so, I'm glad to see Apple has blocked reviews from people who have never downloaded an app they're submitting a review for. This will, at the very least, get rid of people who don't understand the difference between "review" and "forum", and post 1 or 5 star reviews to ask questions or complain that you can't buy apps with iTunes gift cards in Canada (as if that's a shortcoming of a particular app!), not to mention the "price trolls" who immediately post a 1 star "review" of anything over $10.
If anything, this change does more to stop misuse by users than developers. Admittedly, some of the developers releasing iPhone apps are complete retards too (like these idiots who put an "a" in front of their name to cheat and get their app listed first -- in case you hadn't noticed, when sorting by "Release Date", everything released on the same day is sub-sorted alphabetically). But by and large, the users are the bigger problem, app reviews are not meant to be a message board, and this will help stop that nonsense.
One thing I wish they would also do is go back and retroactively delete all the reviews posted by people who have never downloaded the app, before this rule went into effect.
If I see an application I'd like to have at some point, I click the "Tell a friend" option and email the app store link to myself.
I do the same thing, but only because the brain dead iTunes store doesn't let you save interesting songs, movies, and applications to Wish List.