If McCain Wins Will You Leave the Country?

245

Comments

  • Reply 21 of 91
    taurontauron Posts: 911member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by KingOfSomewhereHot View Post


    Of course that could be re-written...



    Palin is a blank page - the Democrat pundits tend to write all these imaginary awful qualities on that blank page, and then hold it up and say "see! She is Terrible!", but in the end that page is empty.

    She has no insider knowledge or experience that would make her a typical president, which could keep her from doing tons of damage.







    I have no desire to leave, but I'd like to hear the REASONS that Tauron is "thinking about it".



    Bush is the worst president in US history, period. It is not only me who says this. There was a survey of 200+ US scholars (historians, etc) and that was the opinion of the vast majority of them.



    Palin seems to be weaker than Bush, if one could ever believe that. She is not a blank page. She has her priorities defined and boy, they are exactly what this country doesn't need.



    McCain is a joke. The guy can't even decide what he wants to say. If it wasn't for his "war hero" status he would probably have never been a candidate. He is more corrupt than Bush was when he got elected. He has no new ideas. He is dumb. OMG.
  • Reply 22 of 91
    OK, don't look to me to defend Bush...

    I was just wondering WHY you are "thinking about leaving"... so?... why??



    (As in... I think "x" is going to happen and I don't want to be anywhere near here when it does. ... fill in the "x")
  • Reply 23 of 91
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tauron View Post


    Bush is the worst president in US history, period. It is not only me who says this. There was a survey of 200+ US scholars (historians, etc) and that was the opinion of the vast majority of them.



    Palin seems to be weaker than Bush, if one could ever believe that. She is not a blank page. She has her priorities defined and boy, they are exactly what this country doesn't need.



    McCain is a joke. The guy can't even decide what he wants to say. If it wasn't for his "war hero" status he would probably have never been a candidate. He is more corrupt than Bush was when he got elected. He has no new ideas. He is dumb. OMG.



    Bush is a curiosity, an "everyman" who isn't. Born rich, spoilt and Yale educated, but dumb enough for the Neo-Cons to think he is like them.



    The American public has taken a turn for the worse about 20 years back when dumbformation took over from education and Americans seriously began to think they no longer occupy the same planet as everyone else.



    If only more Americans travelled and paid more attention to other people when they did. They wouldn't apply selfcentred stereotypes to everything and guess at the very large number of things they don't know anything about. Intellectuals have been left cowering in a corner under attack from all directions.
  • Reply 24 of 91
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Splinemodel View Post


    The massive corruption in politics and the general inadequacies of a two party system for the modern era could be remedied in time. Due to the inherited situation, though, we're going to get at least 4 more years of general discontent no matter who wins. It is likely to be enough of a problem that a real candidate will step up and run in 2012 or 2016. The next president will be a one-termer.



    Even so, I'm of the position that if socialist reforms take place and US taxes meet average EU levels, I may as well move to continental Europe: same taxes, better sports, better food, prettier girls.



    Do Americans seriously study other political systems or do they merely assume that theirs is so clearly the best that there is no point?



    Bush has shown up several serious flaws in the system.



    That it is relatively easy to buy elections.



    The constitution matters for little if it is ignored and opponents are labelled unpatriotic.



    That too much power in one hand is much too much power.



    That fixed terms mean you can't get rid of a failure early and lame ducks are left at the wheel for a very long time.



    That poor education snowballs problems such as apathy, greed and ignorance. Decisions are made on guesswork or hearsay or mere blind prejudice.



    Every man for himself becomes individual corruption becomes general corruption, becomes a corrupt state.



    Slogans and silly names such as "Operation Freedom", "Liberty Fries" etc repackage nonsense and are bought just like Nikes etc on external appearances only.



    Corporations now rule more than government "By the people, for the people, of the people".
  • Reply 25 of 91
    taurontauron Posts: 911member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by gastroboy View Post


    Do Americans seriously study other political systems or do they merely assume that theirs is so clearly the best that there is no point?



    Bush has shown up several serious flaws in the system.



    That it is relatively easy to buy elections.



    The constitution matters for little if it is ignored and opponents are labelled unpatriotic.



    That too much power in one hand is much too much power.



    That fixed terms mean you can't get rid of a failure early and lame ducks are left at the wheel for a very long time.



    That poor education snowballs problems such as apathy, greed and ignorance. Decisions are made on guesswork or hearsay or mere blind prejudice.



    Every man for himself becomes individual corruption becomes general corruption, becomes a corrupt state.



    Slogans and silly names such as "Operation Freedom", "Liberty Fries" etc repackage nonsense and are bought just like Nikes etc on external appearances only.



    Corporations now rule more than government "By the people, for the people, of the people".



    Bush has bastardized the constitution and gotten away with it because of the GOP majority that is no longer.
  • Reply 26 of 91
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tauron View Post


    Bush has bastardized the constitution and gotten away with it because of the GOP majority that is no longer.



    And that's why you're "thinking about leaving"? ... Where are you planning to go?
  • Reply 27 of 91
    splinemodelsplinemodel Posts: 7,311member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Hassan i Sabbah View Post


    Better healthcare, cleaner air, better education, better public transport...



    Hey. Maybe there's something in this 'taxes'...



    You pretty much hit the nail on the head. I am not in favor of big government or high taxes, but if it's going to be there and I'm going to pay for it, I might as well pay into a socialized system that is proven.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by gastroboy View Post


    Do Americans seriously study other political systems or do they merely assume that theirs is so clearly the best that there is no point? . . . .



    This responds to your whole post:



    I'm no nationalist, but people are panicking beyond what is probably realistic. Yes there are problems, but no system is perfect. The EU governments have plenty of problems, too. For one thing, they haven't been able to coordinate a defense directorate, partly because the post-WWII armament restrictions are still in place over Germany. That's just one example, and it's not a great one, but the point is that we're not the only ones screwed by legacy laws.



    The two party system needs to go, badly. It allows party lines to become more important than the issues. The other thing I think we need is a term limit for the legislature. In addition to jacking up their wages substantially, in my opinion it's the only realistic way to cut back wasteful spending, campaign finance bloat, and corrupt practice by lobbyists. The idea of public service needs to come back. Right now we have two houses full of career politicians.



    If it gets bad enough, we'll see reforms.
  • Reply 28 of 91
    I was having the same debate last year but substitute for Australia and John Howard, who we'd had for a lot longer than you've been stuck with George Bush (there is no limit to the number of terms in Australia). I would definitely have left for NZ or Canada if he wasn't completely gutted in the election. Fortunately that was the case. Still, it's going to take a while to undo the damage.



    As for America, I think Bush has done a generation's worth of damage but it isn't all lost. There are plenty of places in America I could see myself living. But the lack of health care really worries me.
  • Reply 29 of 91
    Look on the bright side, with Palin's International experience dealing with Russia, we don't have to worry about another Cold War.
  • Reply 30 of 91
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by s.metcalf View Post


    ... But the lack of health care really worries me.



    What lack of health care? There are hospitals, clinics, and doctors ALL OVER this country. Health care is easy to find. Your concern is that you don't want to PAY for health care. You want ME to pay for YOUR health care. (OK, not you specifically, you being in an entirely different hemisphere and all.)
  • Reply 31 of 91
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 18,012member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tauron View Post


    Bush has bastardized the constitution and gotten away with it because of the GOP majority that is no longer.



    I love you guys. You can just make stuff up because it sounds good, then run away. Care to elaborate?



    Also...we need to move this to PO.
  • Reply 32 of 91
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by KingOfSomewhereHot View Post


    What lack of health care? There are hospitals, clinics, and doctors ALL OVER this country. Health care is easy to find. Your concern is that you don't want to PAY for health care. You want ME to pay for YOUR health care. (OK, not you specifically, you being in an entirely different hemisphere and all.)



    Australia has reciprocal arrangements with other countries that have similar national health care, UK, Ireland, Canada etc. That means if someone from that country visits Australia they won't have to sell a kidney if their drink gets spiked and they end up in hospital overnight. I'm concerned that even with health insurance that there might be hidden gaps etc...
  • Reply 33 of 91
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by s.metcalf View Post


    Australia has reciprocal arrangements with other countries that have similar national health care, UK, Ireland, Canada etc. That means if someone from that country visits Australia they won't have to sell a kidney if their drink gets spiked and they end up in hospital overnight (they may not have to pay anything, depending on the specific arrangement). I'm concerned that even with health insurance that there might be hidden gaps etc...



    Also, if you're on a low income or unemployed you can get a prescription for $5 (US $4). Thus my monthly prescription only cost me $5 when I was unemployed and the regular price is about $20 (US $18). Not sure how much you pay but I thought it's a bit more than that.
  • Reply 34 of 91
    In Hong Kong, you get treated, even if you're a visitor, from anywhere in the world. In fact you don't have to present any documents, proof of income, proof of citizenship, etc., at all except your identification. Certainly cuts the red tape. This is how a good health care policy should work.
  • Reply 35 of 91
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by KingOfSomewhereHot View Post


    And that's why you're "thinking about leaving"? ... Where are you planning to go?



    I was thinking the same thing.



    Where is your idea of paradise, or near substitute thereof?
  • Reply 36 of 91
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by KingOfSomewhereHot View Post


    What lack of health care? There are hospitals, clinics, and doctors ALL OVER this country. Health care is easy to find. Your concern is that you don't want to PAY for health care. You want ME to pay for YOUR health care. (OK, not you specifically, you being in an entirely different hemisphere and all.)



    It's called health insurance.



    It is NOT free, but the risk is spread, as is the cost.



    America has the worst of both worlds where the risk is concentrated in the working poor and the costs are driven up by every possibly measure by the self satisfied rich:



    Expensive education funded by debt; exhortations to constant greed as next to Godliness; litigious selfishness resolving even minor issues through courts run by greedy lawyers, who got their degrees through expensive education funded by debt; driven by a pointless and unceasing chase for "enough" in a materialist society; innundated by endless pounding propaganda that says there can never be "enough".



    Oh and I forgot the world's worst diet, subsidised by agrarian socialism for big agribusiness.
  • Reply 37 of 91
    Ok... so tell me... how much does a visit to the GP cost in the US these days if you're not insured? In 2005 I had an ear infection when I was visiting my parents. Total bill for the doctor to prescribe antibiotic ear drops was $120. I could have walked into a pharmacy and got the myself for $5.



    In Hong Kong, a visit to the GP costs between $20 and $40, if you're not insured.



    That's one thing that's fucked up in the US, and another reason why the poor need a government program that can give them access to affordable health care.
  • Reply 38 of 91
    floorjackfloorjack Posts: 2,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tonton View Post


    Ok... so tell me... how much does a visit to the GP cost in the US these days if you're not insured? In 2005 I had an ear infection when I was visiting my parents. Total bill for the doctor to prescribe antibiotic ear drops was $120. I could have walked into a pharmacy and got the myself for $5.



    In Hong Kong, a visit to the GP costs between $20 and $40, if you're not insured.



    That's one thing that's fucked up in the US, and another reason why the poor need a government program that can give them access to affordable health care.



    Of course that's not the cost. That's how much the patient pays at the office. Much more is paid via taxes for health care under a government controlled system.
  • Reply 39 of 91
    splinemodelsplinemodel Posts: 7,311member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tonton View Post


    Ok... so tell me... how much does a visit to the GP cost in the US these days if you're not insured? ... That's one thing that's fucked up in the US, and another reason why the poor need a government program that can give them access to affordable health care.



    If you're poor and a US citizen, you're probably getting handouts from medicare. If your poor and not a US citizen, you can abuse the ER system.



    The system is fucked, but there are more ways to solve it than simply by getting government involved. For example, if ERs were allowed to refuse service to the non-insured (or those who can't pay) for non-life-threatening conditions, that alone would solve a lot of problems. Additionally, the lack of commonality in forms and medical informatics creates a web of confusion that has led to an overly convoluted payment system replete with middlemen. The cost of processing insurance claims is so high, due to this mess, that doctors have to pad their fees. And due to various other laws, they have to charge the same price for services, whether it goes through insurance claims or not. The bottom line is that if you had explained you situation and then handed the doctor $40 cash, you would have gotten the same prescription. It's very likely he also would have given you the medicine, straight up.



    Yes, it's a mess. But 90% of the mess could be solved by rewriting a few laws, very slightly, and by mandating a clear standard in medical informatics for processing insurance claims. The first part is conceivably possible, but the second part is unlikely due to graft in washington. The recent bailout highlights this. I don't know too much about McCain's situation, but Obama gets much of his campaign funding from the financial groups that just got bailed out. I presume it's not too much different for McCain. This is all very disconcerting, because even if government were to implement nationalized health care, the major problems would still exist. We'd just be paying for it differently, and almost certainly paying more due to the poor track record the US government has in efficiently running any nationalized program.
  • Reply 40 of 91
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Splinemodel View Post


    And due to various other laws, they have to charge the same price for services, whether it goes through insurance claims or not.



    Which laws would these be?
Sign In or Register to comment.