I think the correct phrasing is, "than Joe Sixpack or Hockey Mom." Then you should follow it up by referring to yourself as a Maverick for the environment.
I think the correct phrasing is, "than Joe Sixpack or Hockey Mom." Then you should follow it up by referring to yourself as a Maverick for the environment.
Yeah... I was kinda channelling Sarah Palin there. That's how pissed I get when I read Woz's comments. LOLs. BTW, since when did Soccer Moms become Hockey Moms? Did hockey get really popular in the past few years?! I've been away from the US for several years... *sigh* a lot has changed, it seems.
if Sony had had some vision, they could have had an iPod-like Walkman before Apple. Sony just wasn't on the ball.
For mp3 players, Sony music was worried about music piracy.
Not just that - Sony earlier released their miniDisc, but wouldn't sell a combo player that allowed you to convert a CD to miniDisc (they wanted us to buy new miniDiscs). They also wouldn't sell a miniDisc drive for a computer which (besides allowing the same CD conversion) could have also been used instead of Zip drives etc for data.
Quote:
Originally Posted by emig647
While I respect Woz, and completely agree with what he says about apple's restrictions on the developers... I don't think Jobs is as completely oblivious to the next "gadget" as he says.
I think the next big thing is something all companies strive for. There are lots of people and companies saying something will be amazing and revolutionary - but usually... it isn't. I think that once the iPhone prototype was in front of people, it was reasonably obvious that it would be a success. I wonder if Steve expected the AppleTV to do the same though?... he only called it a hobby much later.
I think Jobs has a good understanding of how a new technology will really be used, he can see that people will like something without having to get feedback from 100 people. Perhaps the price points and deals he makes are less clear than the technology itself - but he does do well at understanding a devices impact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kerryb
The next big gadget? If history tells us anything it will be based on gadgets we use today but most like a smaller and more portable version.
That'll certainly happen, but every iPod is slightly smaller and more portable, it's a natural evolution. I don't know if that can make the jump to being described as "the next big gadget".
I think the iPhone is a big thing which will see many similar devices. The next versions might be capable of being one of the "next big gadgets" too. I'm talking about more of an intelligent assistant that uses your location, calendar, & to-dos to help you in whatever way it can, while also being an entertainment device (music/games/tv). With minimal support, the technology is already capable of playing your purchased music, interspersed with downloaded songs it thinks you might like (based on genius) and other selections you've made (eg: local news/weather/traffic updates - based on your location). Between songs/news, it could update you on appointments and friends nearby, latest emails, etc - and you could put in your own traffic reports for others to hear only if they will be travelling through your location (just like the radio plays 10 second snippets of caller traffic reports).
That is a pretty strong stance. I can't deny his grand contributions in starting the personal computer revolution, but he hasn't done himself any favours by making these small world comments about the future of technology...
It's just annoying that everytime some news or whatever site needs an "alternative view on Apple" they drag Woz out with some sort of statement -- iPod is dead, iPhone 3G sucks, Mac should be this, I got in line here, I dated so-and-so, I play Segway-this, blah blah blah. It's getting a bit much, but maybe it's just me...
For mp3 players, Sony music was worried about music piracy.
Not just that - Sony earlier released their miniDisc, but wouldn't sell a combo player that allowed you to convert a CD to miniDisc (they wanted us to buy new miniDiscs)...
One word. ATRAC3. What I consider to be Sony's biggest mistake next to Betamax. After the miniDisc, Sony was pushing so hard on ATRAC3 and reconverting files to them, and some other DRM who-knows-what, I can't even remember what they were trying to do. It was a proprietary codec as well, IIRC. So it was made irrelevant pretty fast by Mpeg 1, 2, 3, 4...
That said, the miniDisc was pretty cool. I had some friends in university 10 to 15 years ago that were quite crazy about them. As I recall as long as you had an Line In on your minidisc recorder you could record whatever you wanted. No HDCP-esque DRM'ing. You'd take a CD player, output that into your miniDisc, or from your computer output into a miniDisc. A nice hobby and music enthusiast thing. You could easily record songs from the radio too.
Kind off bridged the gap between the "mixtape" and the "mp3 revolution". While recording was obviously a lossy process, the miniDisc didn't degrade with each recording. It was certainly better than tape, and much more flexible than CDs.
Of course, definitely, the expense and lack of new full album high-quality miniDiscs was a problem.
I think the next big thing is something all companies strive for. There are lots of people and companies saying something will be amazing and revolutionary - but usually... it isn't. I think that once the iPhone prototype was in front of people, it was reasonably obvious that it would be a success. I wonder if Steve expected the AppleTV to do the same though?... he only called it a hobby much later.)
The AppleTV was an odd item with the new Apple. Jobs introduced it 6 to 8 months before it went on sale. Sure, the iPhone did that, but there was a real issue to get people not to sign new 2-year contracts for new cellphones.
It is my belief that Jobs introduced the AppleTV so early in hopes to that consumer interest would transform into studio interest. Had they secured the major studios, save for Disney, for the AppleTV launch it would have been much more successful. It took almost a year later, by then there were other media extenders that were coming out that were actually better or the consumer interest in the AppleTV had already been ruined. I think that is the biggest gaffe Apple has made as they could have secured the living room much earlier while HD-DVD and Blu-ray were still fighting it out while offering a unified experience.
PS: I know several people with Popcorn Hour. It's an alright device, but it's slow and requires too much tinkering to get running on XP. On Vista there seems to be some major connectivity issues. The benefit is that it looks cheaper, at $179, than the AppleTV at $229, while offering more LAN options than the AppleTV, but that has all changed with Boxee. Now you can get all the same access to most codecs and support for running videos from ISOs and zipped files right from a network share, while also offering access to popular video streaming sites. On top of that, the AppleTV kills on performance, comes with a HDD and has 802.11n included. Note: Popcorn Hour can easily take a 3.5" HDD, but not included.
Apple co-founder Steve Wozniak this week likened the iPod to a fad whose days atop the consumer electronics market are numbered while lamenting the limitations of the iPhone 3G, for which he'd like to write certain applications but can't due to restrictions.
"The iPod has sort of lived a long life at number one," he told The Telegraph in an exclusive interview. "Things like that, if you look back to transistor radios and Walkmans, they kind of die out after a while."
Woz, who retired from the daily grind at Apple more than 20 years ago, says the media players are approaching a saturation point where "everyone has got one or two or three." It gets to the point, he adds, where they "get real cheap," become omnipresent, and don't sell as well as a result.
He also spoke out about the direction Apple has chose for the iPhone, specifically the limitations the company has imposed on developers, which, in his opinion, stifle innovation.
"Consumers aren't getting all they want when companies are very proprietary and lock their products down," he said, arguing in favor of Google's open approach to the Android platform that offers developers more freedom. "I would like to write some more powerful apps than what you're allowed."
Woz is also hesitant to embrace the cult following that Apple has managed to achieve. While it may provide some shelter during times of economic recession -- given that loyalists are likely to remain devoted in their purchase decisions -- it also stands in opposition to change.
"I would like to have the users influence the next generation," he said. "With a religion you're not allowed to challenge anything. I want our customers to challenge us."
Woz, who is consider naming his child Zowoz "because it's a palindrome," offhandedly remarked that Apple's next big thing could be an "iWatch," claiming that nobody, including chief executive Steve Jobs, really has the foresight into the next blockbuster gadget.
"I think he would be sitting there [unaware] right up until the day it is introduced," he said of Jobs.
In his interview with The Telegraph, Woz also sides with analysts who've recently downgraded Apple stock and predicts that Web 2.0 and social networking websites could be in a for a mini version of the dotcom crash that erased $5 trillion in market cap near the turn of the century.
Yeah... I was kinda channelling Sarah Palin there. That's how pissed I get when I read Woz's comments. LOLs. BTW, since when did Soccer Moms become Hockey Moms? Did hockey get really popular in the past few years?! I've been away from the US for several years... *sigh* a lot has changed, it seems.
How much Soccer gets played in Alaska? If we're going for popularity, Football and Baseball would precede the Moms part of the statement.
"The iPod has sort of lived a long life at number one. Things like, that if you look back to transistor radios and Walkmans, they kind of die out after a while. It's kind of like everyone has got one or two or three. You get to a point when they are on display everywhere, they get real cheap and they are not selling as much."
Best,
K
And Woz still doesn't say what the article headline is implying. Woz is basically saying the market for iPods is getting saturated, AI twists it and says that he is saying the iPod's days are numbered.
And to an extent it is, as Apple is moving away from a straight music player, with the click wheel UI, to a touch-based player, with an accelerometer, movies and games. The market for simple music players is getting passe.
And speaking of the apps and how Apple handles things on that end, I bought an iPod Touch to replace my lost 5g iPod, and I'm not that impressed with the app store, and the limitations that Apple is imposing. While Symbian and WinMo have issues, the IPhone OS isn't a bowl of berries either, as I can run multiple apps on both my Nokia phone and ~7 year Dell PDA, but can't other than music on my Touch. Reminds me a bit of my old Palm V.
And I've never had problems with app stability on my Nokia or Dell (only if I was trying to overclock my Dell), yet Safari and a few other apps crash every so often on my Touch.
How much Soccer gets played in Alaska? If we're going for popularity, Football and Baseball would precede the Moms part of the statement.
LOL. Snowshoe Running Moms? Ice Fishing Moms? Time to whip out them' Northern Exposure tapes and figure out what they actually do up there. No offense to any Alaskans and Canadians.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blogorant
Couldn't have said it better myself, Woz! Stir up the fan boys!
...And speaking of the apps and how Apple handles things on that end, I bought an iPod Touch to replace my lost 5g iPod, and I'm not that impressed with the app store, and the limitations that Apple is imposing. While Symbian and WinMo have issues, the IPhone OS isn't a bowl of berries either, as I can run multiple apps on both my Nokia phone and ~7 year Dell PDA, but can't other than music on my Touch. Reminds me a bit of my old Palm V...
Nothing comes close to how much I liked my Handspring. Before that a Sharp thin foldout organiser thingy. But the iPhone 3G, is pretty darn good now. iPhone OS 2.1 improves stability.
(Yes, go ahead Apple SlamBoys out there, rip into my comments...)
He's better off naming his kid bob. It's hard to forget and satisfies his palindrome requirement.
Can we have a petition to get Woz neutered or something? I'm not just being mean here, I mean, *will somebody think of the children??!!*...
Actually, maybe I'll name my kid 1337 to show how I am such a leet par3nt. And have him/her tatooed with an nVidia logo birthmark. It's the kid that keeps on giving (daddy sponsorship bucks from nVidia)...
Nothing comes close to how much I liked my Handspring. Before that a Sharp thin foldout organiser thingy. But the iPhone 3G, is pretty darn good now. iPhone OS 2.1 improves stability.
(Yes, go ahead Apple SlamBoys out there, rip into my comments...)
From to 2.0 to 2.1 my Safari keyboard slows down and often crashes or freezes for long periods. These are issues I didn't have with 1.x. There are other issues with 2.x that I didn't have with 1.x, but they are more intermittent and less annoying to deal with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008
Can we have a petition to get Woz neutered or something? I'm not just being mean here, I mean, *will somebody think of the children??!!*...
He has a great engineering mind. He shouldn't be neutered... but a Laryngectomy might be something to consider.
Well he sure seemed happy at the Ipod promotional event back in September...sitting in the front row. I guess he didnt tell steve about what he was going to say with this interview.
I find it depends on the age bracket. I don't know many people under 30 or 40 that wear a watch, and most of them wear it as jewellery, not to tell time. Woz's watch is a good example, my best friend has the same one (the binary one), and it's more of a conversation piece, or a "show off" piece than it is to tell time.
Almost everyone over 50 or 55 wears a watch in my experience though.
What does that tell ya?
Uhh, I am only 46, and I wear a watch to tell time, so what does that tell you?
...will be like previous great Apple consumer products:
1) It will be something that already exists, like the MP3 player (before the iPod) or the cell phone (before the iPhone).
2) It will be something that has not been done terribly well form the POV of an average consumer (like the cell phone and MP3 player).
3) It will be something with previously demonstrated, enormous potential. (Before MP3 players there was the ubiquitous Walkman, and most everyone has or has access to a phone.)
LOL. Snowshoe Running Moms? Ice Fishing Moms? Time to whip out them' Northern Exposure tapes and figure out what they actually do up there. No offense to any Alaskans and Canadians.
Wow, how original.
I've got dibs on the auburn haired beauty with that mole on her face from Northern Exposure. I'll substitute a down comforter for her.
Comments
... than Joe Sixpack or Soccer Mom...
I think the correct phrasing is, "than Joe Sixpack or Hockey Mom." Then you should follow it up by referring to yourself as a Maverick for the environment.
I think the correct phrasing is, "than Joe Sixpack or Hockey Mom." Then you should follow it up by referring to yourself as a Maverick for the environment.
Yeah... I was kinda channelling Sarah Palin there. That's how pissed I get when I read Woz's comments. LOLs. BTW, since when did Soccer Moms become Hockey Moms? Did hockey get really popular in the past few years?! I've been away from the US for several years... *sigh* a lot has changed, it seems.
if Sony had had some vision, they could have had an iPod-like Walkman before Apple. Sony just wasn't on the ball.
For mp3 players, Sony music was worried about music piracy.
Not just that - Sony earlier released their miniDisc, but wouldn't sell a combo player that allowed you to convert a CD to miniDisc (they wanted us to buy new miniDiscs). They also wouldn't sell a miniDisc drive for a computer which (besides allowing the same CD conversion) could have also been used instead of Zip drives etc for data.
While I respect Woz, and completely agree with what he says about apple's restrictions on the developers... I don't think Jobs is as completely oblivious to the next "gadget" as he says.
I think the next big thing is something all companies strive for. There are lots of people and companies saying something will be amazing and revolutionary - but usually... it isn't. I think that once the iPhone prototype was in front of people, it was reasonably obvious that it would be a success. I wonder if Steve expected the AppleTV to do the same though?... he only called it a hobby much later.
I think Jobs has a good understanding of how a new technology will really be used, he can see that people will like something without having to get feedback from 100 people. Perhaps the price points and deals he makes are less clear than the technology itself - but he does do well at understanding a devices impact.
The next big gadget? If history tells us anything it will be based on gadgets we use today but most like a smaller and more portable version.
That'll certainly happen, but every iPod is slightly smaller and more portable, it's a natural evolution. I don't know if that can make the jump to being described as "the next big gadget".
I think the iPhone is a big thing which will see many similar devices. The next versions might be capable of being one of the "next big gadgets" too. I'm talking about more of an intelligent assistant that uses your location, calendar, & to-dos to help you in whatever way it can, while also being an entertainment device (music/games/tv). With minimal support, the technology is already capable of playing your purchased music, interspersed with downloaded songs it thinks you might like (based on genius) and other selections you've made (eg: local news/weather/traffic updates - based on your location). Between songs/news, it could update you on appointments and friends nearby, latest emails, etc - and you could put in your own traffic reports for others to hear only if they will be travelling through your location (just like the radio plays 10 second snippets of caller traffic reports).
That is a pretty strong stance. I can't deny his grand contributions in starting the personal computer revolution, but he hasn't done himself any favours by making these small world comments about the future of technology...
It's just annoying that everytime some news or whatever site needs an "alternative view on Apple" they drag Woz out with some sort of statement -- iPod is dead, iPhone 3G sucks, Mac should be this, I got in line here, I dated so-and-so, I play Segway-this, blah blah blah.
For mp3 players, Sony music was worried about music piracy.
Not just that - Sony earlier released their miniDisc, but wouldn't sell a combo player that allowed you to convert a CD to miniDisc (they wanted us to buy new miniDiscs)...
One word. ATRAC3. What I consider to be Sony's biggest mistake next to Betamax. After the miniDisc, Sony was pushing so hard on ATRAC3 and reconverting files to them, and some other DRM who-knows-what, I can't even remember what they were trying to do. It was a proprietary codec as well, IIRC. So it was made irrelevant pretty fast by Mpeg 1, 2, 3, 4...
That said, the miniDisc was pretty cool. I had some friends in university 10 to 15 years ago that were quite crazy about them. As I recall as long as you had an Line In on your minidisc recorder you could record whatever you wanted. No HDCP-esque DRM'ing. You'd take a CD player, output that into your miniDisc, or from your computer output into a miniDisc. A nice hobby and music enthusiast thing. You could easily record songs from the radio too.
Kind off bridged the gap between the "mixtape" and the "mp3 revolution". While recording was obviously a lossy process, the miniDisc didn't degrade with each recording. It was certainly better than tape, and much more flexible than CDs.
Of course, definitely, the expense and lack of new full album high-quality miniDiscs was a problem.
I think the next big thing is something all companies strive for. There are lots of people and companies saying something will be amazing and revolutionary - but usually... it isn't. I think that once the iPhone prototype was in front of people, it was reasonably obvious that it would be a success. I wonder if Steve expected the AppleTV to do the same though?... he only called it a hobby much later.)
The AppleTV was an odd item with the new Apple. Jobs introduced it 6 to 8 months before it went on sale. Sure, the iPhone did that, but there was a real issue to get people not to sign new 2-year contracts for new cellphones.
It is my belief that Jobs introduced the AppleTV so early in hopes to that consumer interest would transform into studio interest. Had they secured the major studios, save for Disney, for the AppleTV launch it would have been much more successful. It took almost a year later, by then there were other media extenders that were coming out that were actually better or the consumer interest in the AppleTV had already been ruined. I think that is the biggest gaffe Apple has made as they could have secured the living room much earlier while HD-DVD and Blu-ray were still fighting it out while offering a unified experience.
PS: I know several people with Popcorn Hour. It's an alright device, but it's slow and requires too much tinkering to get running on XP. On Vista there seems to be some major connectivity issues. The benefit is that it looks cheaper, at $179, than the AppleTV at $229, while offering more LAN options than the AppleTV, but that has all changed with Boxee. Now you can get all the same access to most codecs and support for running videos from ISOs and zipped files right from a network share, while also offering access to popular video streaming sites. On top of that, the AppleTV kills on performance, comes with a HDD and has 802.11n included. Note: Popcorn Hour can easily take a 3.5" HDD, but not included.
Apple co-founder Steve Wozniak this week likened the iPod to a fad whose days atop the consumer electronics market are numbered while lamenting the limitations of the iPhone 3G, for which he'd like to write certain applications but can't due to restrictions.
"The iPod has sort of lived a long life at number one," he told The Telegraph in an exclusive interview. "Things like that, if you look back to transistor radios and Walkmans, they kind of die out after a while."
Woz, who retired from the daily grind at Apple more than 20 years ago, says the media players are approaching a saturation point where "everyone has got one or two or three." It gets to the point, he adds, where they "get real cheap," become omnipresent, and don't sell as well as a result.
He also spoke out about the direction Apple has chose for the iPhone, specifically the limitations the company has imposed on developers, which, in his opinion, stifle innovation.
"Consumers aren't getting all they want when companies are very proprietary and lock their products down," he said, arguing in favor of Google's open approach to the Android platform that offers developers more freedom. "I would like to write some more powerful apps than what you're allowed."
Woz is also hesitant to embrace the cult following that Apple has managed to achieve. While it may provide some shelter during times of economic recession -- given that loyalists are likely to remain devoted in their purchase decisions -- it also stands in opposition to change.
"I would like to have the users influence the next generation," he said. "With a religion you're not allowed to challenge anything. I want our customers to challenge us."
Woz, who is consider naming his child Zowoz "because it's a palindrome," offhandedly remarked that Apple's next big thing could be an "iWatch," claiming that nobody, including chief executive Steve Jobs, really has the foresight into the next blockbuster gadget.
"I think he would be sitting there [unaware] right up until the day it is introduced," he said of Jobs.
In his interview with The Telegraph, Woz also sides with analysts who've recently downgraded Apple stock and predicts that Web 2.0 and social networking websites could be in a for a mini version of the dotcom crash that erased $5 trillion in market cap near the turn of the century.
[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]
He's better off naming his kid bob. It's hard to forget and satisfies his palindrome requirement.
Yeah... I was kinda channelling Sarah Palin there. That's how pissed I get when I read Woz's comments. LOLs. BTW, since when did Soccer Moms become Hockey Moms? Did hockey get really popular in the past few years?! I've been away from the US for several years... *sigh* a lot has changed, it seems.
How much Soccer gets played in Alaska? If we're going for popularity, Football and Baseball would precede the Moms part of the statement.
Virgil,
These are the direct quotes from Woz:
"The iPod has sort of lived a long life at number one. Things like, that if you look back to transistor radios and Walkmans, they kind of die out after a while. It's kind of like everyone has got one or two or three. You get to a point when they are on display everywhere, they get real cheap and they are not selling as much."
Best,
K
And Woz still doesn't say what the article headline is implying. Woz is basically saying the market for iPods is getting saturated, AI twists it and says that he is saying the iPod's days are numbered.
And to an extent it is, as Apple is moving away from a straight music player, with the click wheel UI, to a touch-based player, with an accelerometer, movies and games. The market for simple music players is getting passe.
And speaking of the apps and how Apple handles things on that end, I bought an iPod Touch to replace my lost 5g iPod, and I'm not that impressed with the app store, and the limitations that Apple is imposing. While Symbian and WinMo have issues, the IPhone OS isn't a bowl of berries either, as I can run multiple apps on both my Nokia phone and ~7 year Dell PDA, but can't other than music on my Touch. Reminds me a bit of my old Palm V.
And I've never had problems with app stability on my Nokia or Dell (only if I was trying to overclock my Dell), yet Safari and a few other apps crash every so often on my Touch.
How much Soccer gets played in Alaska? If we're going for popularity, Football and Baseball would precede the Moms part of the statement.
LOL. Snowshoe Running Moms? Ice Fishing Moms? Time to whip out them' Northern Exposure tapes and figure out what they actually do up there.
Couldn't have said it better myself, Woz! Stir up the fan boys!
Wow, how original.
...And speaking of the apps and how Apple handles things on that end, I bought an iPod Touch to replace my lost 5g iPod, and I'm not that impressed with the app store, and the limitations that Apple is imposing. While Symbian and WinMo have issues, the IPhone OS isn't a bowl of berries either, as I can run multiple apps on both my Nokia phone and ~7 year Dell PDA, but can't other than music on my Touch. Reminds me a bit of my old Palm V...
Nothing comes close to how much I liked my Handspring. Before that a Sharp thin foldout organiser thingy. But the iPhone 3G, is pretty darn good now. iPhone OS 2.1 improves stability.
(Yes, go ahead Apple SlamBoys out there, rip into my comments...)
He's better off naming his kid bob. It's hard to forget and satisfies his palindrome requirement.
Can we have a petition to get Woz neutered or something? I'm not just being mean here, I mean, *will somebody think of the children??!!*...
Actually, maybe I'll name my kid 1337 to show how I am such a leet par3nt. And have him/her tatooed with an nVidia logo birthmark. It's the kid that keeps on giving (daddy sponsorship bucks from nVidia)...
Nothing comes close to how much I liked my Handspring. Before that a Sharp thin foldout organiser thingy. But the iPhone 3G, is pretty darn good now. iPhone OS 2.1 improves stability.
(Yes, go ahead Apple SlamBoys out there, rip into my comments...)
From to 2.0 to 2.1 my Safari keyboard slows down and often crashes or freezes for long periods. These are issues I didn't have with 1.x. There are other issues with 2.x that I didn't have with 1.x, but they are more intermittent and less annoying to deal with.
Can we have a petition to get Woz neutered or something? I'm not just being mean here, I mean, *will somebody think of the children??!!*...
He has a great engineering mind. He shouldn't be neutered... but a Laryngectomy might be something to consider.
It's worth noting that Wozniak actually says nothing of the sort in the article.
This is why journalists go to school and bloggers are not journalists.
His statements combined give a very clear impression of what he means. Or didn't you learn to read between the lines as a 'proper' journalist.
Couldn't have said it better myself, Woz! Stir up the fan boys!
Ever since his plane accident, the Woz has been more like Forrest Gump.
I find it depends on the age bracket. I don't know many people under 30 or 40 that wear a watch, and most of them wear it as jewellery, not to tell time. Woz's watch is a good example, my best friend has the same one (the binary one), and it's more of a conversation piece, or a "show off" piece than it is to tell time.
Almost everyone over 50 or 55 wears a watch in my experience though.
What does that tell ya?
Uhh, I am only 46, and I wear a watch to tell time, so what does that tell you?
1) It will be something that already exists, like the MP3 player (before the iPod) or the cell phone (before the iPhone).
2) It will be something that has not been done terribly well form the POV of an average consumer (like the cell phone and MP3 player).
3) It will be something with previously demonstrated, enormous potential. (Before MP3 players there was the ubiquitous Walkman, and most everyone has or has access to a phone.)
Why invent, when there is so much to REinvent?
LOL. Snowshoe Running Moms? Ice Fishing Moms? Time to whip out them' Northern Exposure tapes and figure out what they actually do up there.
Wow, how original.
I've got dibs on the auburn haired beauty with that mole on her face from Northern Exposure. I'll substitute a down comforter for her.