Since Apple Support is now deleting threads on the topic, it's clear that a huge proportion of Mac users are expressing displeasure at the removal of Firewire and there will be implications of this in the sales numbers of the new laptops....
So now they are censoring the discussion of their latest macbook offering? LAME!!! Apple is blowing it big time. I won't bother going to their sterile forum anymore.
90% of peripherals that have FireWire ports also have USB ports. Most computer devices are not rendered useless. Firewire only is an extremely extremely small percentage.
Oh please stop defending this bs decision. USB is slower than a slug.
Oh please stop defending this bs decision. USB is slower than a slug.
I think Apple should not do away with FireWire until USB 3 is ready to replace it.
Be that as it may, the reality right now their are extremely few peripherals that have FireWire and don't have USB. While their is a growing list of peripherals that are USB only with no FireWire.
Because of this I don't see Apples choice to be as outrageous as many of you feel. To not see this truth is only looking at the situation emotionally and not logically.
Is the new 2.0 MacBook noticeably faster than the previous white?
No, only for gaming, and the 9400 is no powerhouse for demanding 3D games either. For some things, you will not notice any difference between the 2.1 White and the 2.0 MB.
Don't know about noticeable difference, but the fact that the price difference between the 2 processors to a company buying in Apple's volume is only $20, and the fact the backlit keyboard can't be more than $15 extra, HD difference not more than $10, should be enough to anyone not drinking the koolaid to deter them from not falling into this trap.
Sure Apple should be making money, but $300 on $45 worth of upgrades? C'mon $150 would have been fine, Apple could have made a 200+% profit on these 3 little bumps, but $300 is pretty much asinine.
You clearly do not understand the computing world. The fact remains that there are no sub $1000 laptops out there with LED displays and backlit keyboards. This is a fact. You don't need koolaid to believe in a fact.
The quality difference between the white MB's LCD and the new one is staggering. This alone makes the new one way, way better.
The only 15" notebook I ever bought was a mid-grade Dell back in 2003/2004 and that had 1920 x 1200. And that was 4-5 years ago!!!
What makes you think that most consumers want 1920x1200 on a 15" screen? That sort of resolution on a 17" screen is even ridiculous to me and to many buyers.
I think Apple should not do away with FireWire until USB 3 is ready to replace it.
Be that as it may, the reality right now their are extremely few peripherals that have FireWire and don't have USB. While their is a growing list of peripherals that are USB only with no FireWire.
Because of this I don't see Apples choice to be as outrageous as many of you feel. To not see this truth is only looking at the situation emotionally and not logically.
I assume you don't own any firewire only peripherals?
you can turn a blind eye and pretend that it is not going to affect you, but that is exactly what is turning the world into a freakin' police state with anti terrorist laws, sentences without proper trials, fingerprinting at the borders and "guilty until proven innocent" mentality: because there was nobody to protest when they took those rights away bit by bit, because it didn't directly concern them.
and now it's too late and you just have to take it lying down while they implant the tracking chip into your arm. (sorry for being off topic slightly).
but without comparing apple to a police state: we should stick together to demand fairness in progress. it is only fair to ask for a replacement that will not set us back hundreds of dollars worth of previous investments. a replacement that is progress in itself, not regress (like USB is compared to firewire).
(so with that I agree with your first sentence, which makes your follow up so contrasting)
No, only for gaming, and the 9400 is no powerhouse for demanding 3D games either. For some things, you will not notice any difference between the 2.1 White and the 2.0 MB.
So easy to dismiss it when you are not the one sitting there with orphaned gear. I understand, I have been the same way in the past. This is not the same thing.
1. There is no path to backward compatibility.
2. There are plenty of FW only devices in use. In fact, this trend to add other types of connectivity to such devices is relatively new.
3. Apple created the consumer FW market. They actively encouraged it with iLife and FW perifs they sold in their stores.
4. Apple has positioned FW as a consumer connection, not pro. They have put it on every mac they have made in recent memory. You may think of it as a pro only connector, but Apple hasn't.
Apple actively encouraged consumers to purchase these devices and gave the impression that those devices would be supported by Apple. They encouraged consumers to kit out their home studios with multi-channel gear for GB. They encouraged dads to buy those FW cameras and edit those home movies in iMovie. They encouraged people to back up their data with external drives, the best of which at the time were FW. Now that millions of people have gone off and did what Apple suggested, all Apple has to say is "SUCKERS!"
Well, we have now heard that message loud and clear from Apple. We do not much appreciate hearing it from some of you wet-behind-the-ears switchers and other Mac users who are not invested in the FW culture that Apple fostered. If you just bought an Apogee Duet or FW only HD in anticipation of doing some of those cool things that Apple has been encouraging you to do, you feel pretty betrayed right about now. They could have easily abandoned FW without abandoning us. They handled this badly. We have a right to be pissed... And we are.
Do you need special drivers to use USB based video output from camcorders? FW was pretty much model independent in video editing / at least it was transparent to me and it worked well. I wasn't thrilled with quality of video via USB.
I assume you don't own any firewire only peripherals?
Its interesting you ask. When I had an iMac in 1999, my peripherals were...
- Jazz Drive (FireWire)
- Zip Drive (FireWire)
- Epson Printer (USB)
- Palm Pilot (USB)
- Video Camera (FireWire)
Now in 2008, my peripherals are...
- Hard Drive (FireWire 400/800, High Speed USB, eSATA, )
- DVD Burner (FireWire, USB)
- TV Tuner (USB)
- Digital Camera (USB)
- USB Flash Drive (USB)
- Printer (High Speed USB)
- iPod Video (USB)
- iPhone 3G (USB)
Quote:
you can turn a blind eye and pretend that it is not going to affect you, but that is exactly what is turning the world into a freakin' police state with anti terrorist laws, sentences without proper trials, fingerprinting at the borders and "guilty until proven innocent" mentality: because there was nobody to protest when they took those rights away bit by bit, because it didn't directly concern them.
Uuuhhh.......I wouldn't go quite that far to equate FireWire to constitutional rights and social justice issues. Its not that serious.
Apple actively encouraged consumers to purchase these devices and gave the impression that those devices would be supported by Apple. They encouraged consumers to kit out their home studios with multi-channel gear for GB. They encouraged dads to buy those FW cameras and edit those home movies in iMovie. They encouraged people to back up their data with external drives, the best of which at the time were FW. Now that millions of people have gone off and did what Apple suggested, all Apple has to say is "SUCKERS!"
All hope isn't lost. 4 of Apple's 6 computers have FireWire.
Do you need special drivers to use USB based video output from camcorders? FW was pretty much model independent in video editing / at least it was transparent to me and it worked well. I wasn't thrilled with quality of video via USB.
No you don't need special drivers to transfer video over USB.
The problem I've found with transferring video over USB comes from USB only having one way communication. I think the camera and computer aren't able to confirm that all of the data has been delivered and its possible to end up with a corrupted file because all data didn't transfer.
Ok, just got done setting up and having some time with my gf's new Macbook. First, the screen is beautiful. I used to hate the glossy screen, even complained about it yesterday but after time with it today... Wow, does it look amazing and the gloss isn't even an issue really. It has a lot less gloss than similar screens i've seen and it doesn't seem to distract me at all. Second, the new trackpad without the click is brilliant, what a fantastic change that was. Third, this has to be the most beautiful solidly built laptop I've ever seen.
So, besides the not having firewire (really stupid for me but she doesn't use firewire though) i think this is an overall great new generation of laptops.
So now they are censoring the discussion of their latest macbook offering? LAME!!! Apple is blowing it big time. I won't bother going to their sterile forum anymore.
They're not censoring anything: by definition, only the government can engage in censorship.
Apple owns the boards. They're allowed to operate them in any way they want. I would imagine they're deleting complaining posts because the point of the Apple Support forum is to provide technical support. "I hate your new products" is not a technical support issue. Right now, it's an anger management issue.
Apple has an official feedback form you can fill out and submit. It's more likely to get noticed than an inappropriate post in their tech support forums.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell
Uuuhhh.......I wouldn't go quite that far to equate FireWire to constitutional rights and social justice issues. Its not that serious.
You're correct, but it doesn't look like anyone's listening. Too many people are angry that Apple gave them almost everything on their wishlists, without realizing that their wishlists weren't economical for the price points Apple wants to sell at.
People just need to get an extra $500 together and buy a $1999 MacBook Pro. It's really that simple. If it's so important that people refuse to give up their FireWire devices, then they need to bite the bullet and upgrade.
I think Apple should not do away with FireWire until USB 3 is ready to replace it.
Be that as it may, the reality right now their are extremely few peripherals that have FireWire and don't have USB. While their is a growing list of peripherals that are USB only with no FireWire.
Because of this I don't see Apples choice to be as outrageous as many of you feel. To not see this truth is only looking at the situation emotionally and not logically.
No. It IS outrageous because they are taking a step backwards rather than forwards with the macbook's port options. No way to defend this "dumbing down" or handicapping. They removed a superior option that was already part of the macbook. That is backwards plain and simple.
All hope isn't lost. 4 of Apple's 6 computers have FireWire.
The Macbook is the #1 selling Mac of all time. What do you want to bet that Macworld brings us FW-less iMacs and Mac minis. Let's see what happens in the next revision of the pro lineup. At this point, anyone buying a FW perif, even FW 800 has been warned.
Comments
firewire and USB are not just backwards compatible with a converter plug, floppy and USB were.
plus it seems like you are talking about external hard drives.
firewire cameras or audio interfaces usually don't also have USB. (I believe)
It doesn't matter that USB and Firewire are not backward compatible if most peripherals come with both. Really many more peripherals are USB only.
For video that's not true anymore, which why I keep linking to the growing number of USB video cameras.
Since Apple Support is now deleting threads on the topic, it's clear that a huge proportion of Mac users are expressing displeasure at the removal of Firewire and there will be implications of this in the sales numbers of the new laptops....
So now they are censoring the discussion of their latest macbook offering? LAME!!! Apple is blowing it big time. I won't bother going to their sterile forum anymore.
90% of peripherals that have FireWire ports also have USB ports. Most computer devices are not rendered useless. Firewire only is an extremely extremely small percentage.
Oh please stop defending this bs decision. USB is slower than a slug.
Oh please stop defending this bs decision. USB is slower than a slug.
I think Apple should not do away with FireWire until USB 3 is ready to replace it.
Be that as it may, the reality right now their are extremely few peripherals that have FireWire and don't have USB. While their is a growing list of peripherals that are USB only with no FireWire.
Because of this I don't see Apples choice to be as outrageous as many of you feel. To not see this truth is only looking at the situation emotionally and not logically.
Is the new 2.0 MacBook noticeably faster than the previous white?
No, only for gaming, and the 9400 is no powerhouse for demanding 3D games either. For some things, you will not notice any difference between the 2.1 White and the 2.0 MB.
No Firewire in a consumer laptop?
That's a joke right?
My five year old iBook just became a better video editing option than the latest Macbook.
Actually, most "consumer" notebooks do not come with FW.
Your iBook runs FCP better than the MacBook? Wow, you must have one special edition model there.
Don't know about noticeable difference, but the fact that the price difference between the 2 processors to a company buying in Apple's volume is only $20, and the fact the backlit keyboard can't be more than $15 extra, HD difference not more than $10, should be enough to anyone not drinking the koolaid to deter them from not falling into this trap.
Sure Apple should be making money, but $300 on $45 worth of upgrades? C'mon $150 would have been fine, Apple could have made a 200+% profit on these 3 little bumps, but $300 is pretty much asinine.
You clearly do not understand the computing world. The fact remains that there are no sub $1000 laptops out there with LED displays and backlit keyboards. This is a fact. You don't need koolaid to believe in a fact.
The quality difference between the white MB's LCD and the new one is staggering. This alone makes the new one way, way better.
What Pavillion did you get. I noticed this one is pretty popular and it absolutely embarasses the wackbook in comparison.
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....de=23-750059-2
Less than $1300 gets you
15.4" screen
2Ghz C2D processor
4GB of RAM
320GB drive
Blu-ray playback
Digital Media Reader
256MB Dedicated video memory
Modem
HDMI and eSATA/USB combo port
Expresscard 34
Firewire
Are you seriously comparing a 15" plastic, el cheapo to a 13" premium product?
>> the 15" is, well, 15 inches and low-res and not LED. High-end 15" laptops come with LED and high-res.
>> The 256Mb video card is the inferior 9200M compared to the 9400 in the MacBook.
Try harder next time.
The only 15" notebook I ever bought was a mid-grade Dell back in 2003/2004 and that had 1920 x 1200. And that was 4-5 years ago!!!
What makes you think that most consumers want 1920x1200 on a 15" screen? That sort of resolution on a 17" screen is even ridiculous to me and to many buyers.
I think Apple should not do away with FireWire until USB 3 is ready to replace it.
Be that as it may, the reality right now their are extremely few peripherals that have FireWire and don't have USB. While their is a growing list of peripherals that are USB only with no FireWire.
Because of this I don't see Apples choice to be as outrageous as many of you feel. To not see this truth is only looking at the situation emotionally and not logically.
I assume you don't own any firewire only peripherals?
you can turn a blind eye and pretend that it is not going to affect you, but that is exactly what is turning the world into a freakin' police state with anti terrorist laws, sentences without proper trials, fingerprinting at the borders and "guilty until proven innocent" mentality: because there was nobody to protest when they took those rights away bit by bit, because it didn't directly concern them.
and now it's too late and you just have to take it lying down while they implant the tracking chip into your arm. (sorry for being off topic slightly).
but without comparing apple to a police state: we should stick together to demand fairness in progress. it is only fair to ask for a replacement that will not set us back hundreds of dollars worth of previous investments. a replacement that is progress in itself, not regress (like USB is compared to firewire).
(so with that I agree with your first sentence, which makes your follow up so contrasting)
No, only for gaming, and the 9400 is no powerhouse for demanding 3D games either. For some things, you will not notice any difference between the 2.1 White and the 2.0 MB.
how about the old black?
1. There is no path to backward compatibility.
2. There are plenty of FW only devices in use. In fact, this trend to add other types of connectivity to such devices is relatively new.
3. Apple created the consumer FW market. They actively encouraged it with iLife and FW perifs they sold in their stores.
4. Apple has positioned FW as a consumer connection, not pro. They have put it on every mac they have made in recent memory. You may think of it as a pro only connector, but Apple hasn't.
Apple actively encouraged consumers to purchase these devices and gave the impression that those devices would be supported by Apple. They encouraged consumers to kit out their home studios with multi-channel gear for GB. They encouraged dads to buy those FW cameras and edit those home movies in iMovie. They encouraged people to back up their data with external drives, the best of which at the time were FW. Now that millions of people have gone off and did what Apple suggested, all Apple has to say is "SUCKERS!"
Well, we have now heard that message loud and clear from Apple. We do not much appreciate hearing it from some of you wet-behind-the-ears switchers and other Mac users who are not invested in the FW culture that Apple fostered. If you just bought an Apogee Duet or FW only HD in anticipation of doing some of those cool things that Apple has been encouraging you to do, you feel pretty betrayed right about now. They could have easily abandoned FW without abandoning us. They handled this badly. We have a right to be pissed... And we are.
I assume you don't own any firewire only peripherals?
Its interesting you ask. When I had an iMac in 1999, my peripherals were...
- Jazz Drive (FireWire)
- Zip Drive (FireWire)
- Epson Printer (USB)
- Palm Pilot (USB)
- Video Camera (FireWire)
Now in 2008, my peripherals are...
- Hard Drive (FireWire 400/800, High Speed USB, eSATA, )
- DVD Burner (FireWire, USB)
- TV Tuner (USB)
- Digital Camera (USB)
- USB Flash Drive (USB)
- Printer (High Speed USB)
- iPod Video (USB)
- iPhone 3G (USB)
you can turn a blind eye and pretend that it is not going to affect you, but that is exactly what is turning the world into a freakin' police state with anti terrorist laws, sentences without proper trials, fingerprinting at the borders and "guilty until proven innocent" mentality: because there was nobody to protest when they took those rights away bit by bit, because it didn't directly concern them.
Uuuhhh.......I wouldn't go quite that far to equate FireWire to constitutional rights and social justice issues. Its not that serious.
Apple actively encouraged consumers to purchase these devices and gave the impression that those devices would be supported by Apple. They encouraged consumers to kit out their home studios with multi-channel gear for GB. They encouraged dads to buy those FW cameras and edit those home movies in iMovie. They encouraged people to back up their data with external drives, the best of which at the time were FW. Now that millions of people have gone off and did what Apple suggested, all Apple has to say is "SUCKERS!"
All hope isn't lost. 4 of Apple's 6 computers have FireWire.
Do you need special drivers to use USB based video output from camcorders? FW was pretty much model independent in video editing / at least it was transparent to me and it worked well. I wasn't thrilled with quality of video via USB.
No you don't need special drivers to transfer video over USB.
The problem I've found with transferring video over USB comes from USB only having one way communication. I think the camera and computer aren't able to confirm that all of the data has been delivered and its possible to end up with a corrupted file because all data didn't transfer.
So, besides the not having firewire (really stupid for me but she doesn't use firewire though) i think this is an overall great new generation of laptops.
So now they are censoring the discussion of their latest macbook offering? LAME!!! Apple is blowing it big time. I won't bother going to their sterile forum anymore.
They're not censoring anything: by definition, only the government can engage in censorship.
Apple owns the boards. They're allowed to operate them in any way they want. I would imagine they're deleting complaining posts because the point of the Apple Support forum is to provide technical support. "I hate your new products" is not a technical support issue. Right now, it's an anger management issue.
Apple has an official feedback form you can fill out and submit. It's more likely to get noticed than an inappropriate post in their tech support forums.
Uuuhhh.......I wouldn't go quite that far to equate FireWire to constitutional rights and social justice issues. Its not that serious.
You're correct, but it doesn't look like anyone's listening. Too many people are angry that Apple gave them almost everything on their wishlists, without realizing that their wishlists weren't economical for the price points Apple wants to sell at.
People just need to get an extra $500 together and buy a $1999 MacBook Pro. It's really that simple. If it's so important that people refuse to give up their FireWire devices, then they need to bite the bullet and upgrade.
I think Apple should not do away with FireWire until USB 3 is ready to replace it.
Be that as it may, the reality right now their are extremely few peripherals that have FireWire and don't have USB. While their is a growing list of peripherals that are USB only with no FireWire.
Because of this I don't see Apples choice to be as outrageous as many of you feel. To not see this truth is only looking at the situation emotionally and not logically.
No. It IS outrageous because they are taking a step backwards rather than forwards with the macbook's port options. No way to defend this "dumbing down" or handicapping. They removed a superior option that was already part of the macbook. That is backwards plain and simple.
All hope isn't lost. 4 of Apple's 6 computers have FireWire.
The Macbook is the #1 selling Mac of all time. What do you want to bet that Macworld brings us FW-less iMacs and Mac minis. Let's see what happens in the next revision of the pro lineup. At this point, anyone buying a FW perif, even FW 800 has been warned.