And again, you cannot answer the question so you either: 1. conveniently ignore it 2. try to deflect or 3. start to insult.
Yes, but not only did he not answer the question, he lied and said he had answered it.
I told him exactly why the question was pertinent to the thread. It was to establish the mindset of people who opposed same sex marriage in order to better understand whether those who oppose it have any credibility.
His sidestepping the question then lying about answering it proved that perhaps, at least in this case, they do not.
I don't think one has to have credibility to vote. Isn't it interesting that 70% of Blacks voted against homosexual Marriage, but no one is protesting in front of Black churches. Saying that "the Mormon church paid for a huge add campaign" and that's why Blacks voted that way is the same as saying that Blacks are too dumb to make up their own minds. The real reason There are no protests in front of Black churches is because the homosexuals are afraid of what would happen to them if they did.
Or perhaps it makes more sense to target the group that has been vocal about why they feel homosexuals shouldn't be allowed to vote. Not being from the States, who is saying that Blacks voted against gay marriage because of the Mormon church? I would have thought they voted that way more because of the greater percentage of religious African Americans.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystic
I don't think one has to have credibility to vote. Isn't it interesting that 70% of Blacks voted against homosexual Marriage, but no one is protesting in front of Black churches. Saying that "the Mormon church paid for a huge add campaign" and that's why Blacks voted that way is the same as saying that Blacks are too dumb to make up their own minds. The real reason There are no protests in front of Black churches is because the homosexuals are afraid of what would happen to them if they did.
I don't think one has to have credibility to vote. Isn't it interesting that 70% of Blacks voted against homosexual Marriage, but no one is protesting in front of Black churches. Saying that "the Mormon church paid for a huge add campaign" and that's why Blacks voted that way is the same as saying that Blacks are too dumb to make up their own minds. The real reason There are no protests in front of Black churches is because the homosexuals are afraid of what would happen to them if they did.
So you're saying that Black people, as opposed to the latter day saints are more prone to violence, so they scare the homosexuals away? Talk about sweeping generalizations.
And this from a member of a minority that is often accused of being violent.
The fact is that the mormons make an easy target because they are different enough, tend to live in closed communities, and act in concert, as opposed to blacks who are just social conservatives each on his own.
There was no campaign by some "church of all black people" that told all black people to vote for proposition 8, although particular churches (with either or both black and white parishioners) were probably vocal for it. The church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints definitely did both finance the campaign and instructed all its members to vote that way.
Yes, but not only did he not answer the question, he lied and said he had answered it.
I told him exactly why the question was pertinent to the thread. It was to establish the mindset of people who opposed same sex marriage in order to better understand whether those who oppose it have any credibility.
His sidestepping the question then lying about answering it proved that perhaps, at least in this case, they do not.
In YOUR OPINION! AFAIK, inter-racial marriage has not one thing to do with homosexual marriage. You cannot continue to twist the question to your liking, I'm NOT buying your rhetoric, because you want to compare apples to oranges. Now you've got the idea that YOU are the arbiter of this entire subject. horse crap!
In YOUR OPINION! AFAIK, inter-racial marriage has not one thing to do with homosexual marriage. You cannot continue to twist the question to your liking, I'm NOT buying your rhetoric, because you want to compare apples to oranges. Now you've got the idea that YOU are the arbiter of this entire subject. horse crap!
Except that both involve civil liberties that were/are being repressed by bigots who use religion to justify their viewpoints that the sanctity of marriage is being corrupted while overlooking the corruption to marriage that they fully support. 40 years have gone by and you are using the EXACT SAME excuse that was being used to justify keeping interracial couples from getting married. You lost that war and you'll loss this one, too. Oh, you'll win some battles along the way but it will be an expensive battle and a short-lived victory. Compassion will always triumph over hate in the long run.
So you're saying that Black people, as opposed to the latter day saints are more prone to violence, so they scare the homosexuals away? Talk about sweeping generalizations.
And this from a member of a minority that is often accused of being violent.
The fact is that the mormons make an easy target because they are different enough, tend to live in closed communities, and act in concert, as opposed to blacks who are just social conservatives each on his own.
There was no campaign by some "church of all black people" that told all black people to vote for proposition 8, although particular churches (with either or both black and white parishioners) were probably vocal for it. The church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints definitely did both finance the campaign and instructed all its members to vote that way.
Right or wrong, that makes them a target.
Actually, you have not one shred of evidence that the Mormon church contributed one red cent to the prop 8 campaign. Individual members contributed, as is their right, just as it is yours to contribute to suit yourself. So, you spreading rumor, and misinformation, not fact. There should be NO targets, WTH are you an anarchist? That's what you promote.
Second, if you don't know what would have happened to those prop 8 protestors by going to South Central LA, and acting the way they have in other places, then you don't really know crap! The LA protestors know better, even if you don't. Now, if you wanna talk about targets, why don't you go into South Central and act like an asshole, like the protestors are doing? You're all hat, and no cattle.
Actually, you have not one shred of evidence that the Mormon church contributed one red cent to the prop 8 campaign.
Except for the public support for Prop 8 and the encouragement for their supporters to donate money to the campaign. But you are probably looking for a video of Thomas Monson writing out $25M on one of those big checks they use for lottery winners.
Except that both involve civil liberties that were/are being repressed by bigots who use religion to justify their viewpoints that the sanctity of marriage is being corrupted while overlooking the corruption to marriage that they fully support. 40 years have gone by and you are using the EXACT SAME excuse that was being used to justify keeping interracial couples from getting married. You lost that war and you'll loss this one, too. Oh, you'll win some battles along the way but it will be an expensive battle and a short-lived victory. Compassion will always triumph over hate in the long run.
Compassion? How much compassion have you, or the idiot protestors shown toward the lawful majority? NONE, your side lost, and you just can't take it. This will not end well if the gay community doesn't start controlling itself. People are close to having about all they want from this issue after voting it down twice, once as a constitutional amendment. You guys are inciting anarchy.
Except for the public support for Prop 8 and the encouragement for their supporters to donate money to the campaign. But you are probably looking for a video of Thomas Monson writing out $25M on one of those big checks they use for lottery winners.
You made a remark that you cannot back up, period. You said that the Morman church contributed to the Prop 8 issue. Prove it, go into the public donor records, and post the proof here. I won't hold my breath.
You don't seem to have any problem with anyone supporting your view about this, it's only the other side that is evil, if one is to believe you.
You made a remark that you cannot back up, period. You said that the Morman church contributed to the Prop 8 issue. Prove it, go into the public donor records, and post the proof here. I won't hold my breath.
It seems you only know how to get things wrong because the church of jesus christ of later-day saints appears in the prop 8 campaign finance records so yes, there is evidence of the church contributing money to the prop 8 campaign.
It seems you only know how to get things wrong because the church of jesus christ of later-day saints appears in the prop 8 campaign finance records so yes, there is evidence of the church contributing money to the prop 8 campaign.
He's right. There's proof right there in the link. But other than the small donation directly from the church itself, it has been a widely reported fact that the church told all of their parishoners to donate individually. You don't need a letter from the church or a donation record to prove it. it happened. Period.
It's the gay community that's in denial, they lost.
Again and again you keep getting it wrong because prop 8 is going to be reviewed by the California Supreme Court so nobody has won or lost at this moment. Also the majority of the people in favour of gay marriage are actually straight.
You don't seem to have any problem with anyone supporting your view about this, it's only the other side that is evil, if one is to believe you.
I don't believe in evil. I don't think you are evil. Homophobic and hateful toward that which is not like yourself, sure, but I am not trying to change your mind. At 70+ years your bigoted views were engrained decades before I was born. It's a different society today, I don't expect you to change in the very least (especially not by my words), but I do expect you to understand that this is change is inevitable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zinfella
It's the gay community that's in denial, they lost.
If they were in denial, they wouldn't be fighting for it, they would be rejoicing about a victory they didn't achieve. Instead, they are protesting the popular vote that won by 2.1%. When a civil rights violation is so close to 50/50 do you really think that homophobic lobbyists actually stand a chance in the end? Consider how much the percentage dropped in the past 8 years when the vote was 2/3 against same sex marriage and 1/3 for, now it's nearly 50/50 after a reported $100M campaign to deny same sex marriage. I comment the commitment to a cause on both sides, but the inevitable is that it will be allowed in California and eventually be allowed throughout the US. We know this because we've seen this pattern time and time again. The only difference is the religious sects have changed black chess pieces for rainbow coloured pieces.
There you go again, falling back on the "majority" argument that has been repeatedly shown to be an invalid argument. Try something new.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zinfella
Compassion? How much compassion have you, or the idiot protestors shown toward the lawful majority? NONE, your side lost, and you just can't take it. This will not end well if the gay community doesn't start controlling itself. People are close to having about all they want from this issue after voting it down twice, once as a constitutional amendment. You guys are inciting anarchy.
Speaking of denial, someone's gotta bend this guy over and give him some lovin'. Way too bitter and as we all know, the most homophobic often turn out to be homos themselves and Zinfella is just screaming to get out of the closet!
Quote:
Originally Posted by zinfella
It's the gay community that's in denial, they lost.
Again and again you keep getting it wrong because prop 8 is going to be reviewed by the California Supreme Court so nobody has won or lost at this moment. Also the majority of the people in favour of gay marriage are actually straight.
You seem to think that will be an automatic victory for gay marriage. You ignore the fact that overturning a constitutional amendment is among the most difficult things to do legally.
Comments
And again, you cannot answer the question so you either: 1. conveniently ignore it 2. try to deflect or 3. start to insult.
Yes, but not only did he not answer the question, he lied and said he had answered it.
I told him exactly why the question was pertinent to the thread. It was to establish the mindset of people who opposed same sex marriage in order to better understand whether those who oppose it have any credibility.
His sidestepping the question then lying about answering it proved that perhaps, at least in this case, they do not.
I don't think one has to have credibility to vote. Isn't it interesting that 70% of Blacks voted against homosexual Marriage, but no one is protesting in front of Black churches. Saying that "the Mormon church paid for a huge add campaign" and that's why Blacks voted that way is the same as saying that Blacks are too dumb to make up their own minds. The real reason There are no protests in front of Black churches is because the homosexuals are afraid of what would happen to them if they did.
I don't think one has to have credibility to vote. Isn't it interesting that 70% of Blacks voted against homosexual Marriage, but no one is protesting in front of Black churches. Saying that "the Mormon church paid for a huge add campaign" and that's why Blacks voted that way is the same as saying that Blacks are too dumb to make up their own minds. The real reason There are no protests in front of Black churches is because the homosexuals are afraid of what would happen to them if they did.
So you're saying that Black people, as opposed to the latter day saints are more prone to violence, so they scare the homosexuals away? Talk about sweeping generalizations.
And this from a member of a minority that is often accused of being violent.
The fact is that the mormons make an easy target because they are different enough, tend to live in closed communities, and act in concert, as opposed to blacks who are just social conservatives each on his own.
There was no campaign by some "church of all black people" that told all black people to vote for proposition 8, although particular churches (with either or both black and white parishioners) were probably vocal for it. The church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints definitely did both finance the campaign and instructed all its members to vote that way.
Right or wrong, that makes them a target.
Yes, but not only did he not answer the question, he lied and said he had answered it.
I told him exactly why the question was pertinent to the thread. It was to establish the mindset of people who opposed same sex marriage in order to better understand whether those who oppose it have any credibility.
His sidestepping the question then lying about answering it proved that perhaps, at least in this case, they do not.
In YOUR OPINION! AFAIK, inter-racial marriage has not one thing to do with homosexual marriage. You cannot continue to twist the question to your liking, I'm NOT buying your rhetoric, because you want to compare apples to oranges. Now you've got the idea that YOU are the arbiter of this entire subject. horse crap!
In YOUR OPINION! AFAIK, inter-racial marriage has not one thing to do with homosexual marriage. You cannot continue to twist the question to your liking, I'm NOT buying your rhetoric, because you want to compare apples to oranges. Now you've got the idea that YOU are the arbiter of this entire subject. horse crap!
Except that both involve civil liberties that were/are being repressed by bigots who use religion to justify their viewpoints that the sanctity of marriage is being corrupted while overlooking the corruption to marriage that they fully support. 40 years have gone by and you are using the EXACT SAME excuse that was being used to justify keeping interracial couples from getting married. You lost that war and you'll loss this one, too. Oh, you'll win some battles along the way but it will be an expensive battle and a short-lived victory. Compassion will always triumph over hate in the long run.
So you're saying that Black people, as opposed to the latter day saints are more prone to violence, so they scare the homosexuals away? Talk about sweeping generalizations.
And this from a member of a minority that is often accused of being violent.
The fact is that the mormons make an easy target because they are different enough, tend to live in closed communities, and act in concert, as opposed to blacks who are just social conservatives each on his own.
There was no campaign by some "church of all black people" that told all black people to vote for proposition 8, although particular churches (with either or both black and white parishioners) were probably vocal for it. The church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints definitely did both finance the campaign and instructed all its members to vote that way.
Right or wrong, that makes them a target.
Actually, you have not one shred of evidence that the Mormon church contributed one red cent to the prop 8 campaign. Individual members contributed, as is their right, just as it is yours to contribute to suit yourself. So, you spreading rumor, and misinformation, not fact. There should be NO targets, WTH are you an anarchist? That's what you promote.
Second, if you don't know what would have happened to those prop 8 protestors by going to South Central LA, and acting the way they have in other places, then you don't really know crap! The LA protestors know better, even if you don't. Now, if you wanna talk about targets, why don't you go into South Central and act like an asshole, like the protestors are doing? You're all hat, and no cattle.
Actually, you have not one shred of evidence that the Mormon church contributed one red cent to the prop 8 campaign.
Except for the public support for Prop 8 and the encouragement for their supporters to donate money to the campaign. But you are probably looking for a video of Thomas Monson writing out $25M on one of those big checks they use for lottery winners.
Except that both involve civil liberties that were/are being repressed by bigots who use religion to justify their viewpoints that the sanctity of marriage is being corrupted while overlooking the corruption to marriage that they fully support. 40 years have gone by and you are using the EXACT SAME excuse that was being used to justify keeping interracial couples from getting married. You lost that war and you'll loss this one, too. Oh, you'll win some battles along the way but it will be an expensive battle and a short-lived victory. Compassion will always triumph over hate in the long run.
Compassion? How much compassion have you, or the idiot protestors shown toward the lawful majority? NONE, your side lost, and you just can't take it. This will not end well if the gay community doesn't start controlling itself. People are close to having about all they want from this issue after voting it down twice, once as a constitutional amendment. You guys are inciting anarchy.
Except for the public support for Prop 8 and the encouragement for their supporters to donate money to the campaign. But you are probably looking for a video of Thomas Monson writing out $25M on one of those big checks they use for lottery winners.
You made a remark that you cannot back up, period. You said that the Morman church contributed to the Prop 8 issue. Prove it, go into the public donor records, and post the proof here. I won't hold my breath.
You don't seem to have any problem with anyone supporting your view about this, it's only the other side that is evil, if one is to believe you.
You made a remark that you cannot back up, period. You said that the Morman church contributed to the Prop 8 issue. Prove it, go into the public donor records, and post the proof here. I won't hold my breath.
It seems you only know how to get things wrong because the church of jesus christ of later-day saints appears in the prop 8 campaign finance records so yes, there is evidence of the church contributing money to the prop 8 campaign.
http://www.electiontrack.com/prop8.php
It seems you only know how to get things wrong because the church of jesus christ of later-day saints appears in the prop 8 campaign finance records so yes, there is evidence of the church contributing money to the prop 8 campaign.
http://www.electiontrack.com/prop8.php
I stand corrected.
So, it's mote relevant that the Mormon church contributed to prop 8 than the relevance of those that contributed to against it?
You don't need a letter from the church or a donation record to prove it. it happened. Period.
Just in case someone is still in denial
http://lds501c3.files.wordpress.com/...nia-letter.pdf
Just in case someone is still in denial
http://lds501c3.files.wordpress.com/...nia-letter.pdf
It's the gay community that's in denial, they lost.
It's the gay community that's in denial, they lost.
Again and again you keep getting it wrong because prop 8 is going to be reviewed by the California Supreme Court so nobody has won or lost at this moment. Also the majority of the people in favour of gay marriage are actually straight.
You don't seem to have any problem with anyone supporting your view about this, it's only the other side that is evil, if one is to believe you.
I don't believe in evil. I don't think you are evil. Homophobic and hateful toward that which is not like yourself, sure, but I am not trying to change your mind. At 70+ years your bigoted views were engrained decades before I was born. It's a different society today, I don't expect you to change in the very least (especially not by my words), but I do expect you to understand that this is change is inevitable.
It's the gay community that's in denial, they lost.
If they were in denial, they wouldn't be fighting for it, they would be rejoicing about a victory they didn't achieve. Instead, they are protesting the popular vote that won by 2.1%. When a civil rights violation is so close to 50/50 do you really think that homophobic lobbyists actually stand a chance in the end? Consider how much the percentage dropped in the past 8 years when the vote was 2/3 against same sex marriage and 1/3 for, now it's nearly 50/50 after a reported $100M campaign to deny same sex marriage. I comment the commitment to a cause on both sides, but the inevitable is that it will be allowed in California and eventually be allowed throughout the US. We know this because we've seen this pattern time and time again. The only difference is the religious sects have changed black chess pieces for rainbow coloured pieces.
Compassion? How much compassion have you, or the idiot protestors shown toward the lawful majority? NONE, your side lost, and you just can't take it. This will not end well if the gay community doesn't start controlling itself. People are close to having about all they want from this issue after voting it down twice, once as a constitutional amendment. You guys are inciting anarchy.
It's the gay community that's in denial, they lost.
Again and again you keep getting it wrong because prop 8 is going to be reviewed by the California Supreme Court so nobody has won or lost at this moment. Also the majority of the people in favour of gay marriage are actually straight.
You seem to think that will be an automatic victory for gay marriage. You ignore the fact that overturning a constitutional amendment is among the most difficult things to do legally.