Good point...as happy as I am to see Apple eat MS's lunch, the title is sensationalist and isn't backed up by anything. In fact, the whole article is just contrasting a few key metrics from their latest earnings. Something any schmoe off the street could do. Pretty shoddy work.
This embarrasses M$ because there's a pretty serious divide between their talk and reality. Their talk: "Apple is insignificant with two orders of magnitude less market share than us." The reality: Apple's revenues and profits are in the same order of magnitude as M$'s.
So Daniel ("Prince McClean") gets credit for shining a spotlight on the differential between Microsoft's ugly spin and real word of today.
The only thing I see that could be added is something that both Apple and M$ are fully aware of and which embarrasses M$ even further: Apple currently has tremendous growth momentum and M$ has none. Whether or not this is still true in a few years remains to be seen, but as of today, it makes a lot of sense for M$ to try and fight back with their ad campaign. Let's keep our eyes open and see how this works out for them.
Microsoft say that it have a tax to buy Apple product. By looking at those number it look like it have a bigger tax to buy Microsoft product! Seem that there method of marketing are bad
Competition is what it is about, I am glad to see MS embassassed, In computers or any other consumer products competition is what makes product either better or gone.
I really like Apple's approach as the software and hardware actually work best together and optimized, The to many different things MS has done is the undoing of them and now have a steep climb to get back what is lost.
I would never count MS out for a minute but they have to improve where it counts with the consumer, I think that is where they lost it. What would be even better if MS had only about half the market and Apple the other and then the competition will be really stiff between them.
...the article was just reporting straight numbers
Speaking of straight numbers, Wikipedia lists MS' Market Cap at $203 Billion and Apple's at $86 Billion. While I can't foresee MS' worth lowering, I can foresee Apple besting them in 5-10 years.
Speaking of straight numbers, Wikipedia lists MS' Market Cap at $230 Billion and Apple's at $86 Billion. While I can't foresee MS' worth lowering, I can foresee Apple besting them in 5-10 years.
According to Google Finance...
MSFT: 198.86B
APPL: 85.62B
Microsoft has 9X the market share but only 2.33X the market share.
I believe Apple could reach a very happy balance with only 20-25% market share.
I hope they avoid the pitfalls of getting too big.
Reminds me a of an old story.
Two business men were discussing Apple and Microsoft.
One man dismissed Apple as having only 5% of the market.
The other man reminded him..."Yes but it is the top 5% of the market."
Microsoft has 9X the market share but only 2.33X the market share.
I believe Apple could reach a very happy balance with only 20-25% market share.
I hope they avoid the pitfalls of getting too big.
The source listed on Wikipedia lists $203B for the Market Cap. The page is semi-locked, and I don't feel like logging into Wiki so I'm not going to change it.
Don't forget Microsoft issued a $32 Billion dividend at the end of 2004.
As a lame attempt to bolster a stagnating to declining share price. And once that money goes once, it's not in the coffers to entice the next group after the share price resumes it's natural progression.
The 75% growth is inaccurate, because we have never been presented this number before, so you are comparing the total iphone revenues, to iphone revenues that were accounted for on a subscription basis a year ago. The number undoubtedly would still be very high, but not this astronomical. Also that big "non-gaap" home run number, counts all the iphone revenue from this quarters, as well as, the part of subscription for all previously sold iphones in prior quarters. GAAP would never allow this kind of accounting thats why they had to report it as non-GAAP
This doesn't "embarrass" Microsoft at all. They can quite comfortable serve their niche (legacy Windows support) for years to come. They are quite happy with that shrinking segment, since it's shrinking only very slowly.
I'm well aware it's Apple-biased. That's why we're all here.
But it's presuming Microsoft is red faced about Apple's success. They may very well be, but it's written to sound as if someone at MS has admitted they've underestimated Apple.
Perhaps a more appropriate heading could be:
Apple cash surpasses; earnings, profits, approach Microsoft.
it seems silly to portray a giant corporation like Microsoft as 'red faced', but I like to think that Balmer is - every time Apple is the topic in a boardroom full of chairs... ;-)
This embarrasses Ballmer personally, not Microsoft. He constantly dismisses Apple as an unimportant company that is irrelevant and small...
Ballmer doesn't seem to realise that either he is deluded and ignorant, or his attempts to convince us this have proven to be bull.
Exactly. In the last year and a half, Bonzo and his shills (mainly Enderle and Dvorak, but plenty more, for a comprehensive list just go to Roughly Drafted), have spewed so much FUD about Apple you need waders over your hip-boots not to get caught in it. And the bottom line is that they have all been 100% wrong. Recently Monkey Boy was spewing about how Windows Mobile had something like 60% to 80% market share and that the iPhone had "absolutely no chance" of making any inroads in corporate use. Not only was he blatantly lying about WM market share (or just extremely deluded, probably both), but he was flat out wrong. Corporations are noticing the iPhone because they have to; it's so good, it works so well, that people are buying them on their own and bringing them into their company on their own. And it's being noticed. (By Monkey Boy himself no less.)
I've mentioned it on other threads here, and I'll say it again because it's still absolutely true; Monoposoft is scared, they're running scared... all of their moves have been defensive ones, rather than being aimed at taking the fight to Apple and other companies, they've been fighting a retreating action, and letting Apple dictate the direction of the battle and the way the Monoposoft has to retreat.
Will Monoposoft ever completely die? I doubt it, but they're already well on their way to being a shell of their former megalomaniacal self. As another poster mentioned, there will always bee a need for "good enough".
I think this is great, it can only benefit us consumers if Apple and Microsoft are just as big as each other. As much as I love Apple, I certainly don't want them to be the new monopoly. Competition breeds competitiveness, which breeds innovation. Having such a large competitor has, in part, meant Apple has had to innovate.
What I want to see is Microsoft getting off their arses and innovating themselves. This will force Apple to step up their game to the next level. I know this is unlikely to happen, but it would result in an even better Apple... Oh I can dream...
This embarrasses Ballmer personally, not Microsoft. He constantly dismisses Apple as an unimportant company that is irrelevant and small...
Ballmer doesn't seem to realise that either he is deluded and ignorant, or his attempts to convince us this have proven to be bull.
Going back to Jobs though, its hilarious whenever someone does an interview asking him about a new upcoming product. If he gets extremely over the top mad at someone, you know its true.
Exactly. In the last year and a half, Bonzo and his shills (mainly Enderle and Dvorak, but plenty more, for a comprehensive list just go to Roughly Drafted), have spewed so much FUD about Apple you need waders over your hip-boots not to get caught in it. And the bottom line is that they have all been 100% wrong. Recently Monkey Boy was spewing about how Windows Mobile had something like 60% to 80% market share and that the iPhone had "absolutely no chance" of making any inroads in corporate use. Not only was he blatantly lying about WM market share (or just extremely deluded, probably both), but he was flat out wrong. Corporations are noticing the iPhone because they have to; it's so good, it works so well, that people are buying them on their own and bringing them into their company on their own. And it's being noticed. (By Monkey Boy himself no less.)
I've mentioned it on other threads here, and I'll say it again because it's still absolutely true; Monoposoft is scared, they're running scared... all of their moves have been defensive ones, rather than being aimed at taking the fight to Apple and other companies, they've been fighting a retreating action, and letting Apple dictate the direction of the battle and the way the Monoposoft has to retreat.
Will Monoposoft ever completely die? I doubt it, but they're already well on their way to being a shell of their former megalomaniacal self. As another poster mentioned, there will always bee a need for "good enough".
It depends on what market you're looking at. Microsoft (I don't understand people's fascination with changing the name of a company) is still doing really well in the server market and office productivity. I don't think Microsoft will really care if people stop buying new PCs, if they still have to spend £349 on Office 2k8 (to get exchange support) and £100-£200 on Vista to run those few products which aren't on the Mac.
I do support for quite a few Apple based companies. Everyone still runs Office, and everyone still uses Windows server 2k3as well for exchange support. This is the area where Microsoft is moving to, even if you go past their games business which is doing rather well.
As long as Apple has a closed hardware model, there will still be a market for Windows. While I know there is a big market for black boxes which just work, there is also a big market where people will look just at price and avoid all the extras you get from a Mac. I think this is the big area where if Apple made a midtower for $1k (and stops calling the Mini a piece of crap) they would expand their market a lot.
Microsoft has 9X the market share but only 2.33X the market share.
First off, you probably meant "market cap" there.
But more important, market share of what? MS is a software company. They sell Vista (usually through OEMs) and Office and some other stuff. Apple sells computers, and few of them. Apple also makes money from iPods and iPhones, which have nothing to do with Microsoft's share of the operating systems market.
Even if we count every Apple computer sale as a $120 OS sale (which is ludicrous) we'll still get a very tiny share of the market for Apple when compared to Microsoft.
As a lame attempt to bolster a stagnating to declining share price. And once that money goes once, it's not in the coffers to entice the next group after the share price resumes it's natural progression.
Bull. In what sense is this correct?
If MS can't find a good use for the money (such as to buy somebody) they really need to give it back to the stock holders. That's what dividends are about. That's what companies are about. Unless they plan to buy someone big like Adobe, that's what Apple should do as well.
Comments
Good point...as happy as I am to see Apple eat MS's lunch, the title is sensationalist and isn't backed up by anything. In fact, the whole article is just contrasting a few key metrics from their latest earnings. Something any schmoe off the street could do. Pretty shoddy work.
This embarrasses M$ because there's a pretty serious divide between their talk and reality. Their talk: "Apple is insignificant with two orders of magnitude less market share than us." The reality: Apple's revenues and profits are in the same order of magnitude as M$'s.
So Daniel ("Prince McClean") gets credit for shining a spotlight on the differential between Microsoft's ugly spin and real word of today.
The only thing I see that could be added is something that both Apple and M$ are fully aware of and which embarrasses M$ even further: Apple currently has tremendous growth momentum and M$ has none. Whether or not this is still true in a few years remains to be seen, but as of today, it makes a lot of sense for M$ to try and fight back with their ad campaign. Let's keep our eyes open and see how this works out for them.
I really like Apple's approach as the software and hardware actually work best together and optimized, The to many different things MS has done is the undoing of them and now have a steep climb to get back what is lost.
I would never count MS out for a minute but they have to improve where it counts with the consumer, I think that is where they lost it. What would be even better if MS had only about half the market and Apple the other and then the competition will be really stiff between them.
... but this is the state of reportage these days. Rumors built on innuendo, colored by opinion.
Uhh, the vast majority of the article was just reporting straight numbers.
They obviously have a very biased opinion of what those numbers mean.
But the article was mainly reporting facts.
...the article was just reporting straight numbers
Speaking of straight numbers, Wikipedia lists MS' Market Cap at $203 Billion and Apple's at $86 Billion. While I can't foresee MS' worth lowering, I can foresee Apple besting them in 5-10 years.
Speaking of straight numbers, Wikipedia lists MS' Market Cap at $230 Billion and Apple's at $86 Billion. While I can't foresee MS' worth lowering, I can foresee Apple besting them in 5-10 years.
According to Google Finance...
MSFT: 198.86B
APPL: 85.62B
Microsoft has 9X the market share but only 2.33X the market share.
I believe Apple could reach a very happy balance with only 20-25% market share.
I hope they avoid the pitfalls of getting too big.
Reminds me a of an old story.
Two business men were discussing Apple and Microsoft.
One man dismissed Apple as having only 5% of the market.
The other man reminded him..."Yes but it is the top 5% of the market."
According to Google Finance...
MSFT: 198.86B
APPL: 85.62B
Microsoft has 9X the market share but only 2.33X the market share.
I believe Apple could reach a very happy balance with only 20-25% market share.
I hope they avoid the pitfalls of getting too big.
The source listed on Wikipedia lists $203B for the Market Cap. The page is semi-locked, and I don't feel like logging into Wiki so I'm not going to change it.
Don't forget Microsoft issued a $32 Billion dividend at the end of 2004.
As a lame attempt to bolster a stagnating to declining share price. And once that money goes once, it's not in the coffers to entice the next group after the share price resumes it's natural progression.
I'm well aware it's Apple-biased. That's why we're all here.
But it's presuming Microsoft is red faced about Apple's success. They may very well be, but it's written to sound as if someone at MS has admitted they've underestimated Apple.
Perhaps a more appropriate heading could be:
Apple cash surpasses; earnings, profits, approach Microsoft.
it seems silly to portray a giant corporation like Microsoft as 'red faced', but I like to think that Balmer is - every time Apple is the topic in a boardroom full of chairs... ;-)
Ballmer doesn't seem to realise that either he is deluded and ignorant, or his attempts to convince us this have proven to be bull.
This embarrasses Ballmer personally, not Microsoft. He constantly dismisses Apple as an unimportant company that is irrelevant and small...
Ballmer doesn't seem to realise that either he is deluded and ignorant, or his attempts to convince us this have proven to be bull.
His RDF only works on him.
Microsoft's quarterly revenues grew by 9%, compared to Apple's non-GAAP revenue increase of 75.1% year over year.]
To be fair, I don't think MS is capable of experiencing a 75% market growth anymore unless they get into something completely new.
This embarrasses Ballmer personally, not Microsoft. He constantly dismisses Apple as an unimportant company that is irrelevant and small...
Ballmer doesn't seem to realise that either he is deluded and ignorant, or his attempts to convince us this have proven to be bull.
Exactly. In the last year and a half, Bonzo and his shills (mainly Enderle and Dvorak, but plenty more, for a comprehensive list just go to Roughly Drafted), have spewed so much FUD about Apple you need waders over your hip-boots not to get caught in it. And the bottom line is that they have all been 100% wrong. Recently Monkey Boy was spewing about how Windows Mobile had something like 60% to 80% market share and that the iPhone had "absolutely no chance" of making any inroads in corporate use. Not only was he blatantly lying about WM market share (or just extremely deluded, probably both), but he was flat out wrong. Corporations are noticing the iPhone because they have to; it's so good, it works so well, that people are buying them on their own and bringing them into their company on their own. And it's being noticed. (By Monkey Boy himself no less.)
I've mentioned it on other threads here, and I'll say it again because it's still absolutely true; Monoposoft is scared, they're running scared... all of their moves have been defensive ones, rather than being aimed at taking the fight to Apple and other companies, they've been fighting a retreating action, and letting Apple dictate the direction of the battle and the way the Monoposoft has to retreat.
Will Monoposoft ever completely die? I doubt it, but they're already well on their way to being a shell of their former megalomaniacal self. As another poster mentioned, there will always bee a need for "good enough".
What I want to see is Microsoft getting off their arses and innovating themselves. This will force Apple to step up their game to the next level. I know this is unlikely to happen, but it would result in an even better Apple... Oh I can dream...
This embarrasses Ballmer personally, not Microsoft. He constantly dismisses Apple as an unimportant company that is irrelevant and small...
Ballmer doesn't seem to realise that either he is deluded and ignorant, or his attempts to convince us this have proven to be bull.
Going back to Jobs though, its hilarious whenever someone does an interview asking him about a new upcoming product. If he gets extremely over the top mad at someone, you know its true.
Exactly. In the last year and a half, Bonzo and his shills (mainly Enderle and Dvorak, but plenty more, for a comprehensive list just go to Roughly Drafted), have spewed so much FUD about Apple you need waders over your hip-boots not to get caught in it. And the bottom line is that they have all been 100% wrong. Recently Monkey Boy was spewing about how Windows Mobile had something like 60% to 80% market share and that the iPhone had "absolutely no chance" of making any inroads in corporate use. Not only was he blatantly lying about WM market share (or just extremely deluded, probably both), but he was flat out wrong. Corporations are noticing the iPhone because they have to; it's so good, it works so well, that people are buying them on their own and bringing them into their company on their own. And it's being noticed. (By Monkey Boy himself no less.)
I've mentioned it on other threads here, and I'll say it again because it's still absolutely true; Monoposoft is scared, they're running scared... all of their moves have been defensive ones, rather than being aimed at taking the fight to Apple and other companies, they've been fighting a retreating action, and letting Apple dictate the direction of the battle and the way the Monoposoft has to retreat.
Will Monoposoft ever completely die? I doubt it, but they're already well on their way to being a shell of their former megalomaniacal self. As another poster mentioned, there will always bee a need for "good enough".
It depends on what market you're looking at. Microsoft (I don't understand people's fascination with changing the name of a company) is still doing really well in the server market and office productivity. I don't think Microsoft will really care if people stop buying new PCs, if they still have to spend £349 on Office 2k8 (to get exchange support) and £100-£200 on Vista to run those few products which aren't on the Mac.
I do support for quite a few Apple based companies. Everyone still runs Office, and everyone still uses Windows server 2k3as well for exchange support. This is the area where Microsoft is moving to, even if you go past their games business which is doing rather well.
As long as Apple has a closed hardware model, there will still be a market for Windows. While I know there is a big market for black boxes which just work, there is also a big market where people will look just at price and avoid all the extras you get from a Mac. I think this is the big area where if Apple made a midtower for $1k (and stops calling the Mini a piece of crap) they would expand their market a lot.
According to Google Finance...
MSFT: 198.86B
APPL: 85.62B
Microsoft has 9X the market share but only 2.33X the market share.
First off, you probably meant "market cap" there.
But more important, market share of what? MS is a software company. They sell Vista (usually through OEMs) and Office and some other stuff. Apple sells computers, and few of them. Apple also makes money from iPods and iPhones, which have nothing to do with Microsoft's share of the operating systems market.
Even if we count every Apple computer sale as a $120 OS sale (which is ludicrous) we'll still get a very tiny share of the market for Apple when compared to Microsoft.
As a lame attempt to bolster a stagnating to declining share price. And once that money goes once, it's not in the coffers to entice the next group after the share price resumes it's natural progression.
Bull. In what sense is this correct?
If MS can't find a good use for the money (such as to buy somebody) they really need to give it back to the stock holders. That's what dividends are about. That's what companies are about. Unless they plan to buy someone big like Adobe, that's what Apple should do as well.