Update: judge orders Apple's new mobile head to stop work

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 74
    ronboronbo Posts: 669member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dueces View Post


    I don't understand why people feel like he shouldn't be held to his non-compete agreement. This man had a choice whether to enter into this contract or not to. He chose to, and he should be held to that contract.



    Somehow I doubt all you hypocrites would be bashing Apple if the head of the iphone department went to another electronic manufacturer and Apple was in IBM's position.



    This is a highly educated man who signed into an agreement he was fully aware of and understood completely, not some middle school dropout in the hood being fleeced by a fast talking salesman.



    Personally, I think the biggest problem with what IBM is doing isn't that it's illegal or immoral or whatever (it is what it is, a matter of a contract that party A offered to party B, which party A is trying to hold B to, and which party B is saying doesn't apply). I just find myself wondering about the negative impact this will have on people thinking of joining IBM. I wonder if everybody gets a contract like this, or if it's something given just to people when they reach a certain level of authority.
  • Reply 22 of 74
    bwikbwik Posts: 562member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Inverse137 View Post


    Most states don't recognize them because the consequence of recognizing a non-compete clause is to deprive a person of the right to make a living. That FUNDAMENTAL right is guaranteed to you by the U.S. Constitution.





    There are lots of odd things you can sign away -- sexual favors, your fingernail dirt, your telepathic goodwill -- if you sign a contract. Breach of contract is usually actionable. If you don't want to give up your rights, don't. But if you do sign things away, competent adults sometimes are bound by contracts.
  • Reply 23 of 74
    IBM = Idiots Become Managers



    I thought slavery was abolished long time ago, in the United States. Looks like it is still alive at IBM.
  • Reply 24 of 74
    adjeiadjei Posts: 738member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Addison View Post


    I don't know why Apple doesn't just buy IBM, it would give them such an "in" to the corporate world.



    IBM is worth more than Apple, where would they get the money?
  • Reply 25 of 74
    adjeiadjei Posts: 738member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by genericposts View Post


    I only agree with his hypocrisy statement. If this were the other way around the zealots, Appleistas and the like would be up in arms screaming to high heaven that the evil doer should be punished. Stone him. Off with his head. Screw him back to the Stone Age Steve. Hypocrites most of you.



    Here comes the dude who hates all things Apple.
  • Reply 26 of 74
    These no-compete contracts are a reaction to a sad reality in Technology Industries.



    I've seen countless times where a guy/gal comes in, gets trained, ramps up their skills, learns the companies IP and bails to a start up for more money and miraculously produces a near duplicate product/service.



    It's not rocket science the reason for corporations to have turn Training and investment of their staffs over to Consulting Firms who sign highly protective contracts to do the work that in-house staff should be doing.
  • Reply 27 of 74
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,949member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by FormerLurker View Post


    Non-Disclosure and Non-Compete are two different things. This lawsuit is based on a non-compete, not an NDA.



    NDAs are actually easier to enforce, as they are more specific. Non-competes are much more difficult, as they basically say, "if you leave us, you'll have to find a completely different industry to work in".



    Sorry, I wrote NDA when I meant non-compete. I do know the difference, just wrote the wrong term.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dueces View Post


    I don't understand why people feel like he shouldn't be held to his non-compete agreement. This man had a choice whether to enter into this contract or not to. He chose to, and he should be held to that contract.



    Somehow I doubt all you hypocrites would be bashing Apple if the head of the iphone department went to another electronic manufacturer and Apple was in IBM's position.



    This is a highly educated man who signed into an agreement he was fully aware of and understood completely, not some middle school dropout in the hood being fleeced by a fast talking salesman.



    I think this is a specious argument, and calling people that might disagree with you hypocrites isn't going to gain you anything. One problem is that you are lumping Apple fans into one homogeneous group, and it doesn't really work that way, so it ends up being a grand strawman argument.



    Non-competes do look like a step towards signing oneself to indentured servitude, and that's why there is a distaste to the practice. The reason why non-competes are undesirable is that in order to continue the career, well, you can't without letting your skills fall rusty before moving to a different company, so that's it for the career. And it has a faint smell of letting people sign themselves away to slavery, and there is a degree of that in there. Under some lines of thought there's only so much of one's freedoms that a person should be allowed to sign away. I'm not saying there aren't valid reasons for the practice, there are, but there are also valid reasons against the practice as well.
  • Reply 28 of 74
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Adjei View Post


    Here comes the dude who hates all things Apple.



    I don't hate you and you live in Steve Jobs' pants.
  • Reply 29 of 74
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


    Sorry, I wrote NDA when I meant non-compete. I do know the difference, just wrote the wrong term.







    I think this is a specious argument, and calling people that might disagree with you hypocrites isn't going to gain you anything. One problem is that you are lumping Apple fans into one homogeneous group, and it doesn't really work that way, so it ends up being a grand strawman argument.



    Non-competes do look like a step towards signing oneself to indentured servitude, and that's why there is a distaste to the practice. The reason why non-competes are undesirable is that in order to continue the career, well, you can't without letting your skills fall rusty before moving to a different company, so that's it for the career. And it has a faint smell of letting people sign themselves away to slavery, and there is a degree of that in there. Under some lines of thought there's only so much of one's freedoms that a person should be allowed to sign away. I'm not saying there aren't valid reasons for the practice, there are, but there are also valid reasons against the practice as well.



    I think the problem with this industry is that there are only so many "break through" that come along, and once someone is particularly good at them, they essentially are signing their life away. I see it daily. Companies now want to almost own your DNA. It is not about them protecting you, it is about them protecting their bottom line and shareholder value. You would be better off dead to them as long as they have the IPR. This way, they do not have to worry about you quitting, becoming disgruntled, or fired.



    I do disagree with you about the hypocrisy thing though. If this were the other way around almost everyone on this site would be wanting to kill the guy or throw the book at him. Apple may have lost this round. Surely they knew what they were getting into with this guy. They rolled the dice and for the time being lost.
  • Reply 30 of 74
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anilsudhakaran View Post


    IBM = Idiots Become Managers



    I thought slavery was abolished long time ago, in the United States. Looks like it is still alive at IBM.



    Abolished? Well on paper yes. Practiced for sure.
  • Reply 31 of 74
    palegolaspalegolas Posts: 1,289member
    It's called "career". Maybe IBM has never heard about it?
  • Reply 32 of 74
    asciiascii Posts: 5,941member
    I think ordering someone not to work is criminal. What if it's his joy in life? If I was him and I would keep working but just do it on the down low.
  • Reply 33 of 74
    aplnubaplnub Posts: 2,596member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by trevorlsciact View Post


    why is it that contracts like this are legal?! this is just one step away from indentured servitude



    I doubt anyone held a gun to Papermaster's head when he signed the contract. So the better question is, why do people sign these things? Obviously to work. It was a gamble for him to leave and he knew it or else they would not have prepared.



    It's a coin toss...
  • Reply 34 of 74
    Quote:

    Lawyers for Papermaster also claim that requiring him to obey the non-compete clause, regardless of its particular relevance, would be "incredibly damaging" to his career as it would keep him out of touch with the industry.



    IBM disagrees and contends that the nature of processors, regardless of whether they belong in the servers Papermaster would have dealt with or the ARM chips that Papermaster may see, makes it too dangerous to allow one of its senior staffers to switch hands.





    Apple would have you believe that breaking a non-competition agreement does not carry any consequence whatsoever. If the law was like that, why would anyone enter into such an agreement and pay good money for it?



    The non-competition agreement is valid for one year only and was signed in return for the salary, bonus, stock options, health insurance, pension, severance payment equal to one year of salary, and other valid considerations paid by IBM to its employee.



    Exclusive jurisdiction is given to the Court of the County of Westchester, State of New York. The law of California and the Courts of California have no jurisdiction over this matter.



    The non-competition agreement is standard and reasonable because its duration is limited to one year and the employee is paid a salary or other compensation by IBM for the whole duration of the period of non-competition.



    The intertlocutory injunction will stand.



  • Reply 35 of 74
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by elroth View Post


    If Apple would just let Papermaster keep working at IBM, there soon may be a Powerbook G5. They've almost got it.



    And at speeds of 3GHz no less!
  • Reply 36 of 74
    mazda 3smazda 3s Posts: 1,578member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ouragan View Post


    Apple would have you believe that breaking a non-competition agreement does not carry any consequence whatsoever. If the law was like that, why would anyone enter into such an agreement and pay good money for it?



    The non-competition agreement is valid for one year only and was signed in return for the salary, bonus, stock options, health insurance, pension, severance payment equal to one year of salary, and other valid considerations paid by IBM to its employee.



    Exclusive jurisdiction is given to the Court of the County of Westchester, State of New York. The law of California and the Courts of California have no jurisdiction over this matter.



    The non-competition agreement is standard and reasonable because its duration is limited to one year and the employee is paid a salary or other compensation by IBM for the whole duration of the period of non-competition.



    The intertlocutory injunction will stand.







    At least someone in this thread knows what they are talking about
  • Reply 37 of 74
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


    Apple's plans for its new recruit from IBM, Mark Papermaster, have been dealt an at least temporary setback as a federal judge has ordered him to halt any work at his new employer.



    Bla, bla, bla...



    Take it easy folks this is to be expected, this a halt order, not a ruling. Two totally different things. This is only the court saying that Papermaster cannot work while the court is deciding if by doing so he is violating his contract with IBM. This is normal and expected, and is no sign or indication of the final ruling. So for now he can cool his heels, hang out, decide how he wants his office decorated, all of the things that would normally happen when switching jobs can happen now. The court just helped Papermaster clear his calendar. A ruling may take a few weeks at the most, so no big deal, it only plays into the hands of Papermaster. And yes he gets paid, the court only said he cannot work in the questioned capacity, and so he can still decide what colors the office could be, and the like and Apple is still free and clear to pay him.
  • Reply 38 of 74
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ouragan View Post


    Apple would have you believe that breaking a non-competition agreement does not carry any consequence whatsoever. If the law was like that, why would anyone enter into such an agreement and pay good money for it?



    The non-competition agreement is valid for one year only and was signed in return for the salary, bonus, stock options, health insurance, pension, severance payment equal to one year of salary, and other valid considerations paid by IBM to its employee.



    Exclusive jurisdiction is given to the Court of the County of Westchester, State of New York. The law of California and the Courts of California have no jurisdiction over this matter.



    The non-competition agreement is standard and reasonable because its duration is limited to one year and the employee is paid a salary or other compensation by IBM for the whole duration of the period of non-competition.



    The intertlocutory injunction will stand.









    Some non-competes are of a longer duration. When Lucky Stores in Arizona were sold to ABCO, there was a 5 year non-compete clause in place for Lucky not to compete in Arizona.
  • Reply 39 of 74
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ouragan View Post


    Apple would have you believe that breaking a non-competition agreement does not carry any consequence whatsoever. If the law was like that, why would anyone enter into such an agreement and pay good money for it?



    The non-competition agreement is valid for one year only and was signed in return for the salary, bonus, stock options, health insurance, pension, severance payment equal to one year of salary, and other valid considerations paid by IBM to its employee.



    Exclusive jurisdiction is given to the Court of the County of Westchester, State of New York. The law of California and the Courts of California have no jurisdiction over this matter.



    The non-competition agreement is standard and reasonable because its duration is limited to one year and the employee is paid a salary or other compensation by IBM for the whole duration of the period of non-competition.



    The intertlocutory injunction will stand.







    You act like it's already been determined that his work at Apple violates the non-compete agreement. I'd like to know how you can be so sure on an issue of fact like that before the trial occurs.
  • Reply 40 of 74
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ouragan View Post


    Apple would have you believe that breaking a non-competition agreement does not carry any consequence whatsoever. If the law was like that, why would anyone enter into such an agreement and pay good money for it?



    The non-competition agreement is valid for one year only and was signed in return for the salary, bonus, stock options, health insurance, pension, severance payment equal to one year of salary, and other valid considerations paid by IBM to its employee.



    Exclusive jurisdiction is given to the Court of the County of Westchester, State of New York. The law of California and the Courts of California have no jurisdiction over this matter.



    The non-competition agreement is standard and reasonable because its duration is limited to one year and the employee is paid a salary or other compensation by IBM for the whole duration of the period of non-competition.



    The intertlocutory injunction will stand.







    We are also not getting the full story from Apple in another regard. Steve Jobs admitted in an interview that the PA Semi acquisition was based on the desire to build custom processors for the iPod and iPhone. Papermaster's hiring makes sense in the context that he will be overseeing iPod/iPhone hardware design and more specifically microprocessor design.



    Despite the claims that IBM is not in the consumer electronics space, it's processors are in the PS3, Xbox and Wii.
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