The original 17" MBP was released 2-3 months after the original 15" MBP. Since it's technically a little more complicated and has a much smaller market it's no surprise this is coming later.
The 17"MBP was the only Mac notebook that could have possibly taken the available 12.7mm optical drive, but if they maintain the 24.1mm for the MB and 15" MBP for the upcoming 17" MBP, which seems reasonable, then it looks like only a 9.5mm drive will fit. Besides the utility and logistic issues of BR it doesn't very seem likely.
I don't see Apple even offering 6GB, much less 8GB, for their Pro notebooks. The cost is excessive and the benefit would only be had by a few.
I think the 17" MBP will probably loss FW400 and a USB port. I think 17" MBP will most likely follow the current unibody design, which means Apple will place no ports in front of the hatch line.
They work perfectly well now with 6GB. Several companies are now offering 6GB memory sets for them.
Do you really think they will dumb down the 17" MBP even further? Stripping features instead of adding them?
Yes FW800 is compatible with FW400, but the cables aren't. Which means stripping that port will require you to carry extra adapter cables with you - if you want to ensure you can hook it up to client's peripherals. It just becomes more bothersome - instead of less.
So what's the point of getting a 17" MBP then? Just the screen? Seeing that people start to mod 15" MBP to get 1920x1200 resolutions, that's a very minor difference. From a high-end 'Pro' laptop I want more.
Unless Apple can finally find the will to release workstation class laptops. But then again they are a consumer company and will likely never do that.
So I guess it makes sense to become even more 'consumer' oriented by stripping even more 'Pro' features...
They really are trying hard to push 'Pro' users into buying other laptops.
As you can tell, I wish Apple would go the other way and - at least for built-to-order customers - offer more 'Pro' features in their laptops. Like 500GB HDs, more than 4GB RAM, higher resolution LCDs, more disk drive options, a 'second battery instead of disk drive' option.
But alas Apple is more and more on the 'one size fits all' bandwagon. Or the 'one USB port fits all' trail.
Attempting to make the MacBook Air 15% lighter is a noble cause, but getting real needed power into the hands of mobile professionals should be a higher priority.
If anything it means Apple concedes defeat.
They realised they will never be able to build workstation class laptops, so they try to differentiate on other features like size and weight.
The loss of a port is never a "good" thing. But the question is whether it's really needed. Carrying 800 to 400 cables isn't such a big deal if you're carrying cables anyway. And you won't need the 400 to 400 if you're using 800 drives, memory readers, and such.
If you want Apple to release $7,000 "workstation" laptops, show that you would buy into such an expensive beast. If Apple did release such a thing, there would be more howls against it here than for it.
The pro machines use up to 6GBnow. hat's more than most.
The 500GB drives are just now coming out. Apple will offer them. If you really want to, you can install one yourself. It's pretty easy with the new machines.
I do think that saving 15% on an Air is a waste of time if it's going to raise the price. I'd just rather have them give up some of that thin edge look, and trim it off altogether, making the model a bit smaller.
Apple can build this mythical "workstation class" machine you are talking about. But, really, who will buy it? You?
That I'm aware of, but I don't see Apple offering a 6GB option. Maybe in 4-6 months.
I don't think it matters. Few people really need the 4GB, much less 6.
Third party solutions will be cheaper anyway. It's going to be cheaper to buy the 6GB solutions from third parties then it will be to upgrade from 2GB from Apple to 6Gb from Apple.
Then you can re-sell the DIMMS. OWC gives you 30 or 60 days to sell your Apple DIMMS back to them after you've bought a RAM upgrade.
I don't think it matters. Few people really need the 4GB, much less 6.
Third party solutions will be cheaper anyway. It's going to be cheaper to buy the 6GB solutions from third parties then it will be to upgrade from 2GB from Apple to 6Gb from Apple.
That is what I was trying to convey. The cost is excessive even for 3rd-party solutions and 4GB suits almost everyone's needs.
Quote:
Then you can re-sell the DIMMS. OWC gives you 30 or 60 days to sell your Apple DIMMS back to them after you've bought a RAM upgrade.
This I didn't know. Do you a link for the buyback prices or requirements?
The whole point of the air is light weight. 7-8% is significant and a major improvement to the main selling point of the air and should be done if Apple deems it as worthy of gracing one of their laptops.
Honestly though the best way to reduce the weight of the laptops is to reduce power consumption. If Apple was super focused on the weight and nothing more, they could even pop an Intel atom or a ULV in there and solder a solid state HDD to the logic board, then make the case even thinner with the saved space from the HDD, and also reduce the size of the battery (which you can see is the heaviest component anyway). The combined power saved from using a SSD and ULV or atom would allow a much smaller battery, and even a smaller power brick to lug around. If they could also make the entire case out of CF and manage to make it structurally sound all at the same time...well then they have a very expensive product now don't they? But I bet they can shave it down to low 2lbs this way while maintaining similar dimensions?
Would like to add one more idea, but what would stop a 3rd party manufacturer from taking this idea and selling a CF made bottom casing for the MBA? Its a good idea!
Would like to add one more idea, but what would stop a 3rd party manufacturer from taking this idea and selling a CF made bottom casing for the MBA? Its a good idea!
Depends on how many users would want to lose their warrantee for a few ounces, and how many they would sell. they would have to sell e decent number to keep the price within reason. The material is expensive now, and is hard to get.
wow! What a lively discussion. So it seems that CF might not be an option, maybe Apple can machine the aluminium base to be thinner in most area while retain structural strength. Heck, none of us want "dimples" on the lighter base.
Better air ventilation design is important but not at the expense practicality. eg fine grill holes of new MBP are a bitch to clean if something penutbutter gets smeared on it!.
Aluminium smelters used to be built near hydro-electric power stations due to its enormous power appetite but these days, they are burning gas. Such gas burners should be outlawed!. I would be very interested to know how the CHinese source and processed these aluminium parts. I have seen a documentary about how Al Gore visited China and advised them how to retro-fit the coal/gas burner power plants to be eco-friendly.
Am now thoroughly fed up with Windows so considering taking the Mac plunge. I'd love a Mac Air but has been mentioned in other posts on this thread, the Mac Air is left wanting on many levels....
1) It has poor connectivity - 1USB is laughable
2) No disc drive. Other manufactures have them and still manage to keep the weight down. Why not Mac?
3) The battery life is woeful, paricularly if you need to surf a lot (as I do)
4) No dedicated graphics card (I will be using it for multimedia stuff as well as routine word processing etc.)
5)Storage not particularly big
I'm quite happy with all those features. My problem with my MacBook Air (that I otherwise love) is that it has only 2GB of ram. I would buy a 4GB MacBook Air in a heartbeat.
Am now thoroughly fed up with Windows so considering taking the Mac plunge. I'd love a Mac Air but has been mentioned in other posts on this thread, the Mac Air is left wanting on many levels....
1) It has poor connectivity - 1USB is laughable
2) No disc drive. Other manufactures have them and still manage to keep the weight down. Why not Mac?
3) The battery life is woeful, paricularly if you need to surf a lot (as I do)
4) No dedicated graphics card (I will be using it for multimedia stuff as well as routine word processing etc.)
5)Storage not particularly big
Will Apple be improving this to give the perfect portable laptop (and I'm not talking about teeny screened netbooks here, I want a 13 inch screen. Nor do I want a MacBook, which weighs as much as my current laptop.)?
Or will I be forced to go Linux (not an unattractive option and there's now plenty of vendors selling light, well specced machines...)
You clearly are not the target demographic of the Macbook Air. Complaining about 1 USB port is laughable. Complaining about no disc drive is laughable. Using it for multimedia stuff is extremely laughable.
No, Apple does not have anything for you as you've said the Macbook is too heavy. Enjoy your light, "well specced" Linux machine.
...But the trend is clear: Apple seems to think that small laptops only need to be 'adequate' power houses, while 'pro' features are more and more only found in the high-end, and also larger, products...
I'll admit I don't like this trend. It's more than a trend, it's the way it is. it seems like plenty of people would like MBP features in a Macbook size. Including me.
I DON'T see a need to add those features to the Air though. Of course not everyone will agree...
Comments
The original 17" MBP was released 2-3 months after the original 15" MBP. Since it's technically a little more complicated and has a much smaller market it's no surprise this is coming later.
The 17"MBP was the only Mac notebook that could have possibly taken the available 12.7mm optical drive, but if they maintain the 24.1mm for the MB and 15" MBP for the upcoming 17" MBP, which seems reasonable, then it looks like only a 9.5mm drive will fit. Besides the utility and logistic issues of BR it doesn't very seem likely.
I don't see Apple even offering 6GB, much less 8GB, for their Pro notebooks. The cost is excessive and the benefit would only be had by a few.
I think the 17" MBP will probably loss FW400 and a USB port. I think 17" MBP will most likely follow the current unibody design, which means Apple will place no ports in front of the hatch line.
They work perfectly well now with 6GB. Several companies are now offering 6GB memory sets for them.
http://www.barefeats.com/mbpp11.html
They work perfectly well now with 6GB. Several companies are now offering 6GB memory sets for them.
http://www.barefeats.com/mbpp11.html
That I'm aware of, but I don't see Apple offering a 6GB option. Maybe in 4-6 months.
Do you really think they will dumb down the 17" MBP even further? Stripping features instead of adding them?
Yes FW800 is compatible with FW400, but the cables aren't. Which means stripping that port will require you to carry extra adapter cables with you - if you want to ensure you can hook it up to client's peripherals. It just becomes more bothersome - instead of less.
So what's the point of getting a 17" MBP then? Just the screen? Seeing that people start to mod 15" MBP to get 1920x1200 resolutions, that's a very minor difference. From a high-end 'Pro' laptop I want more.
Unless Apple can finally find the will to release workstation class laptops. But then again they are a consumer company and will likely never do that.
So I guess it makes sense to become even more 'consumer' oriented by stripping even more 'Pro' features...
They really are trying hard to push 'Pro' users into buying other laptops.
As you can tell, I wish Apple would go the other way and - at least for built-to-order customers - offer more 'Pro' features in their laptops. Like 500GB HDs, more than 4GB RAM, higher resolution LCDs, more disk drive options, a 'second battery instead of disk drive' option.
But alas Apple is more and more on the 'one size fits all' bandwagon. Or the 'one USB port fits all' trail.
Attempting to make the MacBook Air 15% lighter is a noble cause, but getting real needed power into the hands of mobile professionals should be a higher priority.
If anything it means Apple concedes defeat.
They realised they will never be able to build workstation class laptops, so they try to differentiate on other features like size and weight.
The loss of a port is never a "good" thing. But the question is whether it's really needed. Carrying 800 to 400 cables isn't such a big deal if you're carrying cables anyway. And you won't need the 400 to 400 if you're using 800 drives, memory readers, and such.
If you want Apple to release $7,000 "workstation" laptops, show that you would buy into such an expensive beast. If Apple did release such a thing, there would be more howls against it here than for it.
The pro machines use up to 6GBnow. hat's more than most.
The 500GB drives are just now coming out. Apple will offer them. If you really want to, you can install one yourself. It's pretty easy with the new machines.
I do think that saving 15% on an Air is a waste of time if it's going to raise the price. I'd just rather have them give up some of that thin edge look, and trim it off altogether, making the model a bit smaller.
Apple can build this mythical "workstation class" machine you are talking about. But, really, who will buy it? You?
That I'm aware of, but I don't see Apple offering a 6GB option. Maybe in 4-6 months.
I don't think it matters. Few people really need the 4GB, much less 6.
Third party solutions will be cheaper anyway. It's going to be cheaper to buy the 6GB solutions from third parties then it will be to upgrade from 2GB from Apple to 6Gb from Apple.
Then you can re-sell the DIMMS. OWC gives you 30 or 60 days to sell your Apple DIMMS back to them after you've bought a RAM upgrade.
I don't think it matters. Few people really need the 4GB, much less 6.
Third party solutions will be cheaper anyway. It's going to be cheaper to buy the 6GB solutions from third parties then it will be to upgrade from 2GB from Apple to 6Gb from Apple.
That is what I was trying to convey. The cost is excessive even for 3rd-party solutions and 4GB suits almost everyone's needs.
Then you can re-sell the DIMMS. OWC gives you 30 or 60 days to sell your Apple DIMMS back to them after you've bought a RAM upgrade.
This I didn't know. Do you a link for the buyback prices or requirements?
That is what I was trying to convey. The cost is excessive even for 3rd-party solutions and 4GB suits almost everyone's needs.
This I didn't know. Do you a link for the buyback prices or requirements?
You just go to the site and go to memory upgrades for your machine. It's right on the page.
Here's a random example:
http://eshop.macsales.com/Item_XLR8Y...WC6400DDR2S4MP
Honestly though the best way to reduce the weight of the laptops is to reduce power consumption. If Apple was super focused on the weight and nothing more, they could even pop an Intel atom or a ULV in there and solder a solid state HDD to the logic board, then make the case even thinner with the saved space from the HDD, and also reduce the size of the battery (which you can see is the heaviest component anyway). The combined power saved from using a SSD and ULV or atom would allow a much smaller battery, and even a smaller power brick to lug around. If they could also make the entire case out of CF and manage to make it structurally sound all at the same time...well then they have a very expensive product now don't they? But I bet they can shave it down to low 2lbs this way while maintaining similar dimensions?
But still fun to discuss!
Would like to add one more idea, but what would stop a 3rd party manufacturer from taking this idea and selling a CF made bottom casing for the MBA? Its a good idea!
Depends on how many users would want to lose their warrantee for a few ounces, and how many they would sell. they would have to sell e decent number to keep the price within reason. The material is expensive now, and is hard to get.
1) It is very costly to manufacture.
2) Carbon fibre is difficult to recycle.
Better air ventilation design is important but not at the expense practicality. eg fine grill holes of new MBP are a bitch to clean if something penutbutter gets smeared on it!.
Aluminium smelters used to be built near hydro-electric power stations due to its enormous power appetite but these days, they are burning gas. Such gas burners should be outlawed!. I would be very interested to know how the CHinese source and processed these aluminium parts. I have seen a documentary about how Al Gore visited China and advised them how to retro-fit the coal/gas burner power plants to be eco-friendly.
Am now thoroughly fed up with Windows so considering taking the Mac plunge. I'd love a Mac Air but has been mentioned in other posts on this thread, the Mac Air is left wanting on many levels....
1) It has poor connectivity - 1USB is laughable
2) No disc drive. Other manufactures have them and still manage to keep the weight down. Why not Mac?
3) The battery life is woeful, paricularly if you need to surf a lot (as I do)
4) No dedicated graphics card (I will be using it for multimedia stuff as well as routine word processing etc.)
5)Storage not particularly big
I'm quite happy with all those features. My problem with my MacBook Air (that I otherwise love) is that it has only 2GB of ram. I would buy a 4GB MacBook Air in a heartbeat.
Am now thoroughly fed up with Windows so considering taking the Mac plunge. I'd love a Mac Air but has been mentioned in other posts on this thread, the Mac Air is left wanting on many levels....
1) It has poor connectivity - 1USB is laughable
2) No disc drive. Other manufactures have them and still manage to keep the weight down. Why not Mac?
3) The battery life is woeful, paricularly if you need to surf a lot (as I do)
4) No dedicated graphics card (I will be using it for multimedia stuff as well as routine word processing etc.)
5)Storage not particularly big
Will Apple be improving this to give the perfect portable laptop (and I'm not talking about teeny screened netbooks here, I want a 13 inch screen. Nor do I want a MacBook, which weighs as much as my current laptop.)?
Or will I be forced to go Linux (not an unattractive option and there's now plenty of vendors selling light, well specced machines...)
You clearly are not the target demographic of the Macbook Air. Complaining about 1 USB port is laughable. Complaining about no disc drive is laughable. Using it for multimedia stuff is extremely laughable.
No, Apple does not have anything for you as you've said the Macbook is too heavy. Enjoy your light, "well specced" Linux machine.
...But the trend is clear: Apple seems to think that small laptops only need to be 'adequate' power houses, while 'pro' features are more and more only found in the high-end, and also larger, products...
I'll admit I don't like this trend. It's more than a trend, it's the way it is. it seems like plenty of people would like MBP features in a Macbook size. Including me.
I DON'T see a need to add those features to the Air though. Of course not everyone will agree...