. It's illegal for another state to tax a non-resident, no matter how much they want to, just because the company is in that other state.
My daughter lives in Kansas City, Kansas, and works in Kansas City, Missouri. She has to pay income tax in both states, so I believe your assertion is incorrect.
With arguments like these, Papermaster is damaging his own credibility in the eyes of future employers. He should seek legal advice from a good lawyer before he does further damage to his carreer.
I strongly disagree--any one of those arguments sounds compelling to me and all of them together sound like doom for IBM. I suggest we start a pool as to which of them (not if one of them) is the one the judge uses to toss the injunction. And strong, winning legal arguments make the employee look desirable, not damaged.
3. I am not an attorney (only a 2nd year law student) but i think paper master waived jurisdiction when he signed his contract that said it is governed under the laws of New York. I think its pretty simple, waiver is waiver and he has to live with it.
When you are more than a 2nd year law student you will find out that rarely is it 'pretty simple'
It may be deemed or have been that such a clause in a contract is unenforceable. so then it doesn't matter if he signed it or not. Especially in this case where the states in question don't recognize NDA
If you live in California you are governed by California employee law. There is no way around that. It's the same for any state, your governed by the law of the state you live in not the state your employer office is in.
It's the same for state income tax, you only pay the income tax for the state you live in. Example, New York can't tax an employee in California. It's illegal for another state to tax a non-resident, no matter how much they want to, just because the company is in that other state.
A simple Google search would have saved you the embarrassment of posting uninformed drivel.
What most people do not realize is that it is not up to the judge, but rather the jury, to form their own interpretations of the law. It is unfortunate that today, jury members do not know this and they are now being told by the judges that they will interpret the law as it is given them by the judge. Judges today are also saying things like, "if you bring up the Constitution in my courtroom one more time, I'll hold you in contempt!" I know this personally because it happened to a friend of mine.
There is a lot more going on today than we realize, folks.
Cliff, I am with you, but my point was that at least the judge made IBM set aside some "penitence money" in case it turns out that the jury decides IBM is harassing Papermaster.
I am also 110% with you on your web site. Regrettably I am on the other end of the "Old North State" Let me know if your roots needs some fertilizer, we have plenty on this end of the state!
(2) 1 year actually are very reasonable. Normal non-competing clause is 3 years.
(3) If the IP law of the company is depend upon where you live, there would be a big mess come out... Hmm, wondering why all of company incorporated in delaware.
I think he got bad advice from someone to get into lawsuit. Sorry, he is a good chip designer, that is why Apple want him. If he is printer making guy, I am sure no top dollar for him (might get a reject letter from Apple, if apple care).
My daughter lives in Kansas City, Kansas, and works in Kansas City, Missouri. She has to pay income tax in both states, so I believe your assertion is incorrect.
And yet you can live in Canada and work in the US and only pay one tax. Crazy.
1) Apple and IBM are not computer hardware designers;
2) One year is an unreasonably long period;
3) The law of New York doesn't apply because Papermaster doesn't want it.
With arguments like these, Papermaster is damaging his own credibility in the eyes of future employers. He should seek legal advice from a good lawyer before he does further damage to his carreer.
I propose a simple test of your principle argument - how many IBM products do you own?
If he has a "Contract" with IBM look at the Uniform Commercial Code. Article 1-205 is "Course of Dealing, Usage of Trade" and Article 2-208 deals with "Course of Performance".
He only needs to show that IBM in a "similar" situation had hired a employee from another tech firm and claimed it didn't violate any non-compete agreement. Course of Performance.
If something like Paymaster is doing is common in the tech business it could meet the the "Usage of Trade" verbiage. (e.g. going to a phone design position from a computer chip design position)
I don't think IBM was having him designing mobile hardware for interfacing with servers.
I'm no Einstein but Steve Jobs is no dummy.
P.S. The comedians could have a field day with this one, wonder what Steve Balmer will say about this dispute.
second thought: with all the souls got recently throw out in the market, Apple might pick up a JAVAmaster out of 6000, instead of Papermaster. Chip design is hot. Few years ago, Microsoft picked up a MIPS master. The argument of "IBM and Apple are not in the competing category" chaps may think that Microsoft must go nuts to get a chipmaster... Loss of link in the chip or brain are both deadly. (did we think chip is the brain of computer? thanks god some of the brain do not make the chip).
I'm not sure that's true. I've had to pay/file forms for other state taxes on projects I've freelanced depending where they were (New York coming immediately to mind). I live in California, but the studio I worked for was in NY. And I have a darn fine tax attorney and CPA to help me, so... I think you can pay multiple state taxes, or at least have to file CA income tax and other states as well....
If you have a meaningful business presence in another city or state, you (as an independent contractor) have to pay local taxes. For my company, we end up paying tax in a state if one of our employees sits in a cube for more than 4 weeks, be it at a client location or a space we rent. You simply have to indicate that you had no meaningful business operations to avoid taxes (and more of a hassle, a local business license).
If you have a meaningful business presence in another city or state, you (as an independent contractor) have to pay local taxes. For my company, we end up paying tax in a state if one of our employees sits in a cube for more than 4 weeks, be it at a client location or a space we rent. You simply have to indicate that you had no meaningful business operations to avoid taxes (and more of a hassle, a local business license).
Oh, it gets complicated. I was simply pointing out to the other guy that one can actually file state income taxes in multiple states, which he claimed was not the case.
1) Apple and IBM are not computer hardware designers;
2) One year is an unreasonably long period;
3) The law of New York doesn't apply because Papermaster doesn't want it.
With arguments like these, Papermaster is damaging his own credibility in the eyes of future employers. He should seek legal advice from a good lawyer before he does further damage to his carreer.
What the hell are you talking about? BOTH COMPANIES ARE HARDWARE DESIGNERS.
What the hell are you talking about? BOTH COMPANIES ARE HARDWARE DESIGNERS.
You not only missed his point, but you missed the 10 criticisms of it too.
His post lists what he thinks are Papermaster's lame arguments in his counter-suit (see RDF). So you actually agree with him that that claim is ridiculous.
Of course, whether or not his summary of Papermaster's claims is valid is a separate question...
What the hell are you talking about? BOTH COMPANIES ARE HARDWARE DESIGNERS.
That's like saying the 49'ers and Yankees are competitors because they are both professional sports teams. Jobs using the same talent set != job in the same market.
Comments
. It's illegal for another state to tax a non-resident, no matter how much they want to, just because the company is in that other state.
My daughter lives in Kansas City, Kansas, and works in Kansas City, Missouri. She has to pay income tax in both states, so I believe your assertion is incorrect.
Where does Apple and IBM compete?
Probably the New iPod Touch Blade Servers they've got kicking round Cupertino
Probably the New iPod Touch Blade Servers they've got kicking round Cupertino
I could use one of those but only if the operating system is IBM-DOS. I haven't kept up with the new-fangled GUI's.
With arguments like these, Papermaster is damaging his own credibility in the eyes of future employers. He should seek legal advice from a good lawyer before he does further damage to his carreer.
I strongly disagree--any one of those arguments sounds compelling to me and all of them together sound like doom for IBM. I suggest we start a pool as to which of them (not if one of them) is the one the judge uses to toss the injunction. And strong, winning legal arguments make the employee look desirable, not damaged.
3. I am not an attorney (only a 2nd year law student) but i think paper master waived jurisdiction when he signed his contract that said it is governed under the laws of New York. I think its pretty simple, waiver is waiver and he has to live with it.
When you are more than a 2nd year law student you will find out that rarely is it 'pretty simple'
It may be deemed or have been that such a clause in a contract is unenforceable. so then it doesn't matter if he signed it or not. Especially in this case where the states in question don't recognize NDA
If you live in California you are governed by California employee law. There is no way around that. It's the same for any state, your governed by the law of the state you live in not the state your employer office is in.
It's the same for state income tax, you only pay the income tax for the state you live in. Example, New York can't tax an employee in California. It's illegal for another state to tax a non-resident, no matter how much they want to, just because the company is in that other state.
A simple Google search would have saved you the embarrassment of posting uninformed drivel.
What most people do not realize is that it is not up to the judge, but rather the jury, to form their own interpretations of the law. It is unfortunate that today, jury members do not know this and they are now being told by the judges that they will interpret the law as it is given them by the judge. Judges today are also saying things like, "if you bring up the Constitution in my courtroom one more time, I'll hold you in contempt!" I know this personally because it happened to a friend of mine.
There is a lot more going on today than we realize, folks.
Cliff, I am with you, but my point was that at least the judge made IBM set aside some "penitence money" in case it turns out that the jury decides IBM is harassing Papermaster.
I am also 110% with you on your web site. Regrettably I am on the other end of the "Old North State" Let me know if your roots needs some fertilizer, we have plenty on this end of the state!
(2) 1 year actually are very reasonable. Normal non-competing clause is 3 years.
(3) If the IP law of the company is depend upon where you live, there would be a big mess come out... Hmm, wondering why all of company incorporated in delaware.
I think he got bad advice from someone to get into lawsuit. Sorry, he is a good chip designer, that is why Apple want him. If he is printer making guy, I am sure no top dollar for him (might get a reject letter from Apple, if apple care).
My daughter lives in Kansas City, Kansas, and works in Kansas City, Missouri. She has to pay income tax in both states, so I believe your assertion is incorrect.
And yet you can live in Canada and work in the US and only pay one tax. Crazy.
The Reality Distortion Field strikes again!
1) Apple and IBM are not computer hardware designers;
2) One year is an unreasonably long period;
3) The law of New York doesn't apply because Papermaster doesn't want it.
With arguments like these, Papermaster is damaging his own credibility in the eyes of future employers. He should seek legal advice from a good lawyer before he does further damage to his carreer.
I propose a simple test of your principle argument - how many IBM products do you own?
He only needs to show that IBM in a "similar" situation had hired a employee from another tech firm and claimed it didn't violate any non-compete agreement. Course of Performance.
If something like Paymaster is doing is common in the tech business it could meet the the "Usage of Trade" verbiage. (e.g. going to a phone design position from a computer chip design position)
I don't think IBM was having him designing mobile hardware for interfacing with servers.
I'm no Einstein but Steve Jobs is no dummy.
P.S. The comedians could have a field day with this one, wonder what Steve Balmer will say about this dispute.
I am a IBM type (I buy macs).
I'm not sure that's true. I've had to pay/file forms for other state taxes on projects I've freelanced depending where they were (New York coming immediately to mind). I live in California, but the studio I worked for was in NY. And I have a darn fine tax attorney and CPA to help me, so... I think you can pay multiple state taxes, or at least have to file CA income tax and other states as well....
If you have a meaningful business presence in another city or state, you (as an independent contractor) have to pay local taxes. For my company, we end up paying tax in a state if one of our employees sits in a cube for more than 4 weeks, be it at a client location or a space we rent. You simply have to indicate that you had no meaningful business operations to avoid taxes (and more of a hassle, a local business license).
If you have a meaningful business presence in another city or state, you (as an independent contractor) have to pay local taxes. For my company, we end up paying tax in a state if one of our employees sits in a cube for more than 4 weeks, be it at a client location or a space we rent. You simply have to indicate that you had no meaningful business operations to avoid taxes (and more of a hassle, a local business license).
Oh, it gets complicated. I was simply pointing out to the other guy that one can actually file state income taxes in multiple states, which he claimed was not the case.
The Reality Distortion Field strikes again!
1) Apple and IBM are not computer hardware designers;
2) One year is an unreasonably long period;
3) The law of New York doesn't apply because Papermaster doesn't want it.
With arguments like these, Papermaster is damaging his own credibility in the eyes of future employers. He should seek legal advice from a good lawyer before he does further damage to his carreer.
What the hell are you talking about? BOTH COMPANIES ARE HARDWARE DESIGNERS.
What the hell are you talking about? BOTH COMPANIES ARE HARDWARE DESIGNERS.
You not only missed his point, but you missed the 10 criticisms of it too.
His post lists what he thinks are Papermaster's lame arguments in his counter-suit (see RDF). So you actually agree with him that that claim is ridiculous.
Of course, whether or not his summary of Papermaster's claims is valid is a separate question...
What the hell are you talking about? BOTH COMPANIES ARE HARDWARE DESIGNERS.
That's like saying the 49'ers and Yankees are competitors because they are both professional sports teams. Jobs using the same talent set != job in the same market.