Apple's new MacBooks have built-in copy protection measures

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 246
    It's not really any wonder why piracy is so rampant: the solution chosen by various media industries - DRM- realistically can't compete with the alternatives.



    The simple fact is that the movie and music industries are pretending that they can apply laws that worked for tangible items like books to batches of 0's and 1's. It's apples and oranges. This HDCP trash is like going to a grocery store, buying a box of Corn Flakes and then being told that you can only eat your Corn Flakes with a Kellogg's approved spoon in a Kellogg's approved bowl. Or like going to a bookstore and picking up JK Rowling's latest Harry Potter novel and then being forced to read it under a JK Rowlings approved lamp.



    Meanwhile, you can with relative ease get near-similar quality products, for free, without restrictions from a never-ending list of sources. The biggest irony of it all is that, like the story illustrates, DRM typically impacts legitimate users the most, which only pushes them further away, while the pirates continue to enjoy their DRM-free media any way they choose.
  • Reply 22 of 246
    sflocalsflocal Posts: 4,434member
    This is the sign of the times boys. Get over it. Yes, a huge amount of people are going to be inconvenienced by this since a majority of users do not have HDCP-compliant equipment. This is certainly nothing new and if anything, Apple is one of the last folks to be forced (??) to get on the bandwagon if the studios are to allow their media to be distributed via iTunes.



    You can gripe and moan all you want. Anything digital is going to have this kind of lock-down. HD TV's have them, HDMI equipment, DVI, etc.



    If this means you will never buy Apple again, then by all means... go to an alternative vendor then. Oh wait... they do it too and they have been doing it far longer than Apple has. Quite possible, Apple arguably may have implemented it in a way that is not a major headache compared to the other solutions offered by other systems.



    Everyone is beating a dead horse here folks. I don't like it any more than anyone else. Fortunately, most of my equipment is already HDCP-compliant and has been that way for a couple years now.



    Don't beat up Apple. Apple is at the whim of the studios. You want change? Point your rage at them, not Apple.



    But I feel your pain. I raise my glass for a goodbye-toast to an era now past.
  • Reply 23 of 246
    pxtpxt Posts: 683member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Retrogusto View Post


    We all know that there are a lot of silly lawsuits out there against Apple for stupid things, but this seems like a pretty reasonable one just waiting to happen--they do not make it clear that the new computers are only fully compatible with "HDCP compliant" displays, and this is clearly a serious limitation. I haven't yet tried connecting my new MBP to my HD projector, but one of these days I will need to, and if it doesn't work, I'm going to be furious (as will anybody who spends $29 on the adapter only to discover the restriction surprise).



    Surely it is only HDCP-protected content that is restricted to HDCP displays by the Macbooks. Nothing has changed here. HDCP content has always been restricted this way.



    The warnings about this will be displayed on the content itself, which you can read when you buy the content. For example, see the section in the iTunes Terms of Service at: http://www.apple.com/legal/itunes/us/service.html



    What MAY change, is that we could see a major increase of content in iTunes.
  • Reply 24 of 246
    ajmasajmas Posts: 554member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by FineWine View Post


    A simple and stark warning to Apple:

    YOU WILL LOSE SALES of your hardware with this BS.



    I wish that were true, but the truth is that most hardware is going in this direction. MS-Windows also has this imposed limitation. This is where ripping your stuff becomes so much more tempting. Like overzealous security, which causes people to deactivate security (think Windows Vista), overzealous DRM causes people to rip their content on principle and makes them more willing to accept less legal means.



    Sometimes when you have laws that only a mad man can follow, then you will only have mad men in liberty.
  • Reply 25 of 246
    parkyparky Posts: 383member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tibbsy View Post


    It's not really any wonder why piracy is so rampant: the solution chosen by various media industries - DRM- realistically can't compete with the alternatives.



    The simple fact is that the movie and music industries are pretending that they can apply laws that worked for tangible items like books to batches of 0's and 1's. It's apples and oranges. This HDCP trash is like going to a grocery store, buying a box of Corn Flakes and then being told that you can only eat your Corn Flakes with a Kellogg's approved spoon in a Kellogg's approved bowl. Or like going to a bookstore and picking up JK Rowling's latest Harry Potter novel and then being forced to read it under a JK Rowlings approved lamp.



    Meanwhile, you can with relative ease get near-similar quality products, for free, without restrictions from a never-ending list of sources. The biggest irony of it all is that, like the story illustrates, DRM typically impacts legitimate users the most, which only pushes them further away, while the pirates continue to enjoy their DRM-free media any way they choose.



    Very silly analogies which are not actually correct.
  • Reply 26 of 246
    I don't understand why the restriction should apply to VGA displays. I understand HDMI and DVI requiring HDCP compliance.
  • Reply 27 of 246
    pxtpxt Posts: 683member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anilsudhakaran View Post


    I don't understand why the restriction should apply to VGA displays. I understand HDMI and DVI requiring HDCP compliance.



    Yes, I remember reading somewhere that HDCP would transmit HD content to an HDCP display, but force-downgrade the content to a non-HD resolution for non-HDCP displays. The intention being to prevent HD copying via cable.



    I wonder if this is a Macbook bug?
  • Reply 28 of 246
    adjeiadjei Posts: 738member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Applecrisis View Post


    If that is true, my last MBP was the last Appleproduct i bought. I have been Macuser since the first Mac 128, bevor that i used an Apple IIe. My first personal Mac was the IIci, thereafter was the Powermac 6100. I had 4 Powerbooks but THIS IS THE GREATEST BULLSHIT EVER. It REALLY keeps me away from Apple



    Hey smart ass, this is the same stuff found on Windows, aren't y'all the same dudes that want blu-ray, well this is the stuff blu-ray comes with, I guess Apple is setting the stage for the hell that is blu-ray.
  • Reply 29 of 246
    jimzipjimzip Posts: 444member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by parky View Post


    That's a very grown up response!



    Should I have made it ... less grown-up?



    In all seriousness though, this is such a ridiculous measure for the studios to enforce. If I buy or rent a movie from the iTS, why should I not be able to watch it on my HDTV, my laptop, or my projector?



    "High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection (HDCP) ... aims to prevent copying of digital audio and video content as it travels across a variety of display connectors, even if such copying is not in violation of fair use laws."



    What's the deal there? Like many others have said, it's far more attractive to download a higher-quality copy of the movie from a tracker and use it as you wish, than go through the rigmarol of buying it 'legally' and then playing russian roulette on your devices to see if it works.



    My prior response may have been heated, but as a consumer who purchases legal music, movies and software, these ludicrous methods of protecting their interests is severely decreasing the value and quality of the experience for me, a customer, and is, ironically I suppose, pushing me ever-closer to persuing other means...



    Jimzip
  • Reply 30 of 246
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by parky View Post


    Very silly analogies which are not actually correct.



    The point is that they illustrate the same point - consider the three following scenarios:



    1) You buy an apple. The second you pay for it, you have the right to do anything you want with it. You can eat it, you can throw in the garbage, hell you can put it right back on the shelf. It is for all intents and purposes yours to do as you wish.



    2) You buy the Wall-E DVD. You paid for it, it's yours. You can (try to) eat it, you can watch it as many times as you want, on any DVD player, you can throw it in the garbage the second you get it, and you can give it to someone else. It is for all intents and purposes yours to do as you wish.



    3) You buy Wall-E off a digital movie vendor. Now, if you paid for it, it's yours right? You can do whatever you want with it right? If you wanted, you could take the file and delete it. So why is it that someone else is getting to decide if and how you can watch it? Who knows - maybe in clicking through those terms of service, people agreed that they didn't actually own those digitial items they paid money for and figured they'd own like a real DVD.



    Now, look at the alternative to option 3: you can download a DRM-free, near-same quality product for free from who-knows-where. And you can delete it, you can give it to someone else, and you can watch it wherever you want in whatever way you want. DRM woefully restricts rights you should have to something that you pay money for and thus (theoretically) own. Understand that my point isn't "piracy wins, legitimacy loses": it's that right now, scenario 3 and scenario 2 are black and white different, even though for consumers the end is the same. I buy music on iTunes and I think it's a fabulous service. I just think that when I buy the songs in a digital-only format, I should be able to treat them like songs I own on CDs.
  • Reply 31 of 246
    adjeiadjei Posts: 738member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jimzip View Post


    Absoultely, feverently stupid and totally unnecessary. I'll be recommending people download their movies off torrent sites instead of buying them thanks to this. Not only that, but I will no longer be buying a new computer from Apple.



    Well done studios, you now look more idiotic and backward than ever before.



    Jimzip



    So where will you buy your computer, from other PC manufacturers who also have this on their system.
  • Reply 32 of 246
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by FineWine View Post


    A simple and stark warning to Apple:



    YOU WILL LOSE SALES of your hardware with this BS.



    But much more importantly, you will lose the SYMPATHY AND GOOD WILL of users.



    That latter is devastating. For awhile, everything will seem to go well, and then, people will defect - IN DROVES.



    This is a deadly serious matter. Some things are non-negotiable. If this BS goes on, time to consider another platform. Thank god for Linux.



    DROVES of people will switch to LINUX???

    The only people who will switch to LINUX are the Freetards who refuse to pay for anything anyway. As far as the movie studios are concerned, they could care less.

    Apple is a CONSUMER electronics company and their goal is to be able to SELL High Definition content to CONSUMERS. Why do you think we can't buy HD content today on a Mac or PC? Because until HDCP is commonplace, the movie studios won't allow it.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Applecrisis View Post


    If that is true, my last MBP was the last Appleproduct i bought. I have been Macuser since the first Mac 128, bevor that i used an Apple IIe. My first personal Mac was the IIci, thereafter was the Powermac 6100. I had 4 Powerbooks but THIS IS THE GREATEST BULLSHIT EVER. It REALLY keeps me away from Apple



    I call your bluff. If you have been a Mac user for 24 years I highly doubt this will be the straw that breaks the camels back. I remember hearing the same threats from long time Mac users when SCSI was killed, when Floppies were killed, when OS 9 was killed...



    The reason is because something better always comes along to replace it.

    Sure we are losing our precious analog displays and projectors, but sometime next year Apple will announce that you can rent/purchase HD content on your Mac.

    Now you have a choice keep your old Mac and cling to your 640X480 videos, or

    upgrade and enjoy convenient HD video delivery.
  • Reply 33 of 246
    i386i386 Posts: 91member
    Not really Apples fault, dumb Hollywood are to blame. Well I don't intend to buy a Blue Ray player let alone a BD disc. This HD protection stuff is a pile of dog turd and it's overpriced. Another way to screw us into buy new stuff that does the same thing every couple of years. I reckon the recession will hit blue-ray hard - and they deserve it.
  • Reply 34 of 246
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    ... PS: I wonder how many AI posters are against this HDCP, but also keep asking for Blu-ray.



    My guess is at least 90%
  • Reply 35 of 246
    This is the exact reason why I don't buy movies online form iTunes or anywhere else. I can't stand all the DRM and restrictions all of the content providers are trying to implement. If blueray brings more of this type of crap you can keep it! I'm fine with DVD quality on my digital projector. I can rip the DVDs with handbrake or mactheripper in order to have a legal backup for personal use (legal in Canada), record HD TV and paypervu movies on my bell express vu PVR, which I can then record to DVD on my home DVD recorder.



    I am a huge Apple fan but TV and movies on-line from iTunes just doesn?t? work for me yet, too restrictive, too many hoops.



    Steve Jobs: no one has gotten this right ...still!!!
  • Reply 36 of 246
    jimzipjimzip Posts: 444member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Adjei View Post


    So where will you buy your computer, from other PC manufacturers who also have this on their system.



    Nope, I'll stick with my trusty ole' MBP until this whole silly DRM game explodes in the studios' faces and they realise what morons they've been, then I'll buy whatever lovely little piece of hardware Apple has brought out by then. It may be ten years from now, but I'm a patient fellow.



    Jimzip
  • Reply 37 of 246
    This is just not a good move for anyone. Now I will have to think twice before buying my content on itunes. Right now I have a Mac Mini hooked up to an older 4:3 TV via the composite connector. I am looking to buy another mini after the next refresh (assuming there is one) and still hook it up to the older TV for awhile. I would imagine that I have nothing to worry about at the moment as this is not built in to my Mini but this changes quite a lot about any future purchases.



    The argument that this will allow for more content on itunes is back ass backwards. If I have a wew Macbook connected to the PC port on a flat panel or in a setup like I personally have I would not care if there is 1 title or 2,000 titles on itunes. If I cannot play it on my monitor or TV I am going to go elsewhere. Simple as that.
  • Reply 38 of 246
    tofinotofino Posts: 697member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Johnny Mozzarella View Post


    I remember hearing the same threats from long time Mac users when SCSI was killed, when Floppies were killed, when OS 9 was killed...



    SCSI is dead? Nooooooooo!
  • Reply 39 of 246
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tibbsy View Post


    The point is that they illustrate the same point - consider the three following scenarios:



    1) You buy an apple. The second you pay for it, you have the right to do anything you want with it. You can eat it, you can throw in the garbage, hell you can put it right back on the shelf. It is for all intents and purposes yours to do as you wish.



    2) You buy the Wall-E DVD. You paid for it, it's yours. You can (try to) eat it, you can watch it as many times as you want, on any DVD player, you can throw it in the garbage the second you get it, and you can give it to someone else. It is for all intents and purposes yours to do as you wish.



    3) You buy Wall-E off a digital movie vendor. Now, if you paid for it, it's yours right? You can do whatever you want with it right? If you wanted, you could take the file and delete it. So why is it that someone else is getting to decide if and how you can watch it? Who knows - maybe in clicking through those terms of service, people agreed that they didn't actually own those digitial items they paid money for and figured they'd own like a real DVD.



    Now, look at the alternative to option 3: you can download a DRM-free, near-same quality product for free from who-knows-where. And you can delete it, you can give it to someone else, and you can watch it wherever you want in whatever way you want. DRM woefully restricts rights you should have to something that you pay money for and thus (theoretically) own. Understand that my point isn't "piracy wins, legitimacy loses": it's that right now, scenario 3 and scenario 2 are black and white different, even though for consumers the end is the same. I buy music on iTunes and I think it's a fabulous service. I just think that when I buy the songs in a digital-only format, I should be able to treat them like songs I own on CDs.



    Yeah, this is pretty much completely wrong. The problem is with your number (2): You own the DVD, but you don't own Wall-E, and you CANNOT do whatever you want with the DVD's content (including, by the way, fast forwarding past the portion of the DVD that lists all the things you're not allowed to do with it--or hadn't you noticed?). You can give the DVD to someone else, but not the files on it. You can't show the DVD to a room full of people and charge money for it. (People do that all the time, but hey, that doesn't make it legal...)



    To a certain extent, what's going on generally is that we're moving toward the equivalent of a society in which automobiles have chips that prevent them from moving faster than the legal speed limit. The mere fact that every driver on the road speeds, and 99.9% of them do so with impunity, does not mean that they have the right to do so, and if cars suddenly began to prevent them from speeding, there wouldn't really be any available non-childish, non-selfish argument against that technology...
  • Reply 40 of 246
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by webhead View Post


    This is the exact reason why I don't buy movies online form iTunes or anywhere else.



    This means your are not a consumer and not part of their target market.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by webhead View Post


    I can't stand all the DRM and restrictions all of the content providers are trying to implement. If blueray brings more of this type of crap you can keep it! I'm fine with DVD quality on my digital projector. I can rip the DVDs with handbrake or mactheripper in order to have a legal backup for personal use (legal in Canada), record HD TV and paypervu movies on my bell express vu PVR, which I can then record to DVD on my home DVD recorder.



    Sounds like a lot of hoops to jump through just to get DVD quality video for FREE.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by webhead View Post




    I am a huge Apple fan but TV and movies on-line from iTunes just doesn?t? work for me yet, too restrictive, too many hoops.



    I'm a fan too and if HDCP means I can BUY HD movies on my Mac then I am OK with it.

    I'm sure Steve would love to give us DRM free HD movies, but there is no way the studios will go for it.
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