Well it goes both ways...There are things you can do on the iPhone that you can't with Android. So maybe Andriod users should start a petition to get Google to put iPhone capabilities in their OS. *end sarcasm*
They already are. Opera Browser for a 2nd browswer on Android greeted with open arms. That's the benefit of the Android.
The developers aren't limited by Apples day to day rule changes and Steve's paranoid NDA.
The thing is though, the OQO isn't a phone. Apple would have to make a Newton-like device and the market might be too small. I think the market is big for a tablet (doctors etc) but what size is right?
This may be a milestone outside of Apple, but not inside Apple.
At any rate, the fact phone systems are still tied to Telcos makes this a nice academic project to add one more piece of hardware able to boot Linux or any other OS for that matter.
I'd rather work hard at developing applications for the platform that slowly will be accessible over this exercise.
Regarding your Leopard need storage, I have been playing around installing leopard on a FW drive I have laying around. I have 10.5.5 down to 6.5 GB. Of course, no printer drivers and one language with PPC architecture removed from Applications when possible via XSlimmer. I tell you, that is not bad for a fully functioning OS in size. I was surprised I was able to get it down to that size with a custom install and one click of an application.
I imagine Snow Leopard may add reductions on top of this.
A lot of the problems with the preinstalled apps are Apple's media apps. Audio loops for Garage Band and themes for iPhoto and iDVD consume many gigs of space. Final Cut Express and Studio can make that figure explode.
iPhone currently has over 13,000 web/native apps. I wonder if developers will be so enthralled by Android to accomplish this in the same amount of time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacOldTimer
They already are. Opera Browser for a 2nd browswer on Android greeted with open arms. That's the benefit of the Android.
The developers aren't limited by Apples day to day rule changes and Steve's paranoid NDA.
Running Linux on an iPhone is like buying a brand new Ferrari, removing the engine, and installing a Yugo engine.
You have the above backwards, Linux would be a far more powerful OS. The primary reason being Apple going to great lengths to castrate Mobile OS.
Quote:
It will work, it will give satisfaction of being able to do it, but it won't impress that many people.
It doesn't have to. All it needs to do is offer up features Mobile OS doesn't to people that could use such
Quote:
Your time is better spent developing iPhone applications. The APP store will distribute them worldwide.
You're putting Linux on the iPhone? Don't quit your day-job.
Well that could be said for most app store developers. To be honest though I still believe thereis a place for Linux on the small Devices market. IPhone simply provides a platform to test real world code. You don't need great expectations to see value in the project.
It's not clear to me that the XNU Kernel is in anyway technically deficient or inferior to the Linux Kernel?
While I could argue the point as to which is better for what there is little point in that. The problem isn't so much the kernel as it is what Apple is delivering on iPhone. Or maybe more exactly what they aren't. There is little indication that Apple is deveolping Mobile OS in the right direction.
Look at it this way all OSes evolve overtime, but in the case of iPhone it looks like Apple has a lot of artificial walls in place to restrict that evolution. One big question in my mind is where is the BluTooth stack? Be it the various audio profiles, the profile for async or whatever.
Install Linux and eventually all the hardware will be supported on IPhone. Simply put that isn't the case right now with IPhone. Further it looks like the lack of hardware support is on purpose which makes one wonder why Apple isn't feeding the baby. Starve the child and it will die early.
That is hardware support then we have Apples stubborness with respect to interperters. This one bugs me as it implies a lot of development time for apps that don't need it or can't justify the time. Of course this flies in the face of App store distribution but frankly screw the idea that only one form of app and delivery is acceptable. What this means in a nut shell is this where is Python on iPhone.
I bring up python as a developer, that doesn't see XCode and Objective C as being the best solution for every task that somebody might do on iPhone.
hehe. I pity my wife too. But just coz she is stuck with me. Not because I want her to be something she is not. All people are imperfect (sadly including me). I was really referring to purchased things. I do think I should be able to purchase things and expect certain things.
To a certain extent you are correct (though I don't know about your wife).
But your solution is wrong. Changing the OS for another to just get one or two features isn't really useful. The comment about getting the Android phone does make more sense, or for that matter, any other phone that gives you that feature or two.
Because your solution tells us that there is so little about the iPhone OS that you like, that you would rather just replace it altogether with another.
Of course, the Android OS couldn't take advantage of the multitouch screen and other hardware features, such as the accelerated Open GL the iPhone has.
You would be giving up far more than you gained.
Which is why I can only think that your solution was really meant to be tongue in cheek.
You have the above backwards, Linux would be a far more powerful OS. The primary reason being Apple going to great lengths to castrate Mobile OS.
It doesn't have to. All it needs to do is offer up features Mobile OS doesn't to people that could use such
Well that could be said for most app store developers. To be honest though I still believe thereis a place for Linux on the small Devices market. IPhone simply provides a platform to test real world code. You don't need great expectations to see value in the project.
Dave
Linux, or more accurately, a Linux distro, wouldn't be more powerful, because you are limited by the hardware in the phone.
The fact that Apple does limit some programs doesn't mean that Linux would get better ones.
Some of the work that Apple did to get certain features such as multitouch working are so heavily covered by patents, that no Linux distro could emulate them in a useful way.
Other features are covered by patents and licensing agreements with other companies. Linux distro groups usually frown upon using, and paying licensing fees to anyone, which is why they are always complaining about not having many media players and formats available to them.
While I think this is an interesting project, and I will be interested in seeing how far they can get with it before they hit that wall of patents and licensing agreements, it's not something that will be useful.
While I could argue the point as to which is better for what there is little point in that. The problem isn't so much the kernel as it is what Apple is delivering on iPhone. Or maybe more exactly what they aren't. There is little indication that Apple is deveolping Mobile OS in the right direction.
Look at it this way all OSes evolve overtime, but in the case of iPhone it looks like Apple has a lot of artificial walls in place to restrict that evolution. One big question in my mind is where is the BluTooth stack? Be it the various audio profiles, the profile for async or whatever.
Install Linux and eventually all the hardware will be supported on IPhone. Simply put that isn't the case right now with IPhone. Further it looks like the lack of hardware support is on purpose which makes one wonder why Apple isn't feeding the baby. Starve the child and it will die early.
That is hardware support then we have Apples stubborness with respect to interperters. This one bugs me as it implies a lot of development time for apps that don't need it or can't justify the time. Of course this flies in the face of App store distribution but frankly screw the idea that only one form of app and delivery is acceptable. What this means in a nut shell is this where is Python on iPhone.
I bring up python as a developer, that doesn't see XCode and Objective C as being the best solution for every task that somebody might do on iPhone.
Dave
I can't agree with you on this. You think Apple is taking this in the wrong direction, but sales will determine that. That is the ultimate arbiter.
Also don't forget that this is still a young system. You don't know what Apple has planned for it in the future. It's very possible that ver 3 will have everything everyone here wants.
Surely, you aren't saying that MS, RIM, Palm, and Nokia and Symbian are all going in the right direction?
I could point out major deficiencies in all of those systems that outrank those in Apple.
Generally, the features in the iPhone OS aren't of a nature that can't be added later. Some others, such as Win Mobile, Palm, and Symbian, (I'm not as familiar with RIMS, though I've seen some artificial limits written of) are limited by the concept of the OS itself, and would have to be written from the ground up to fix it.
Apple often changes their mind about what to allow developers and users. They have already made more than one turnaround here for the iPhone, and I expect more.
It just looks to me as though they are going slowly, without rushing into adding too much at once. It's only ver 2 after all. For cut and paste, for instance, Win Mobile didn't get that until ver 3 either.
I think it's too early to tell where Apple is actually taking this long term. Next year some time, when ver 3 comes out, and new hardware, we will have a much better idea.
To a certain extent you are correct (though I don't know about your wife).
But your solution is wrong. Changing the OS for another to just get one or two features isn't really useful. The comment about getting the Android phone does make more sense, or for that matter, any other phone that gives you that feature or two.
Because your solution tells us that there is so little about the iPhone OS that you like, that you would rather just replace it altogether with another.
Of course, the Android OS couldn't take advantage of the multitouch screen and other hardware features, such as the accelerated Open GL the iPhone has.
You would be giving up far more than you gained.
Which is why I can only think that your solution was really meant to be tongue in cheek.
Spot on. Of course it was tongue and cheek. Seems it got a lot of people razed up though. Can't believe how many people take this sort of stuff so serious.
Spot on. Of course it was tongue and cheek. Seems it got a lot of people razed up though. Can't believe how many people take this sort of stuff so serious.
Yes, well, if you go to the RED (Video camera manufacturer) forums, you will find far worse. In fact, the owner of the company will harass you himself! How's that for service?
A milestone has been reached in iPhone firmware modification on Friday with the first alternative operating system for the hardware, Linux, now running on the device.
oh boy... I bet the crack team was working hard. They ported Linux to a system that is already running darwin aka freeBSD? and for a CPU core and video chipset that has long had Linux support?
Wow. I'm Impressed. Next we'll see them port OPIE, GPE, and/or Familiar.
Oh wait... no we won't because these folks apparently like to reinvent to wheel.
/ sorry.. I'm in a grumpy mood today. Never have seen the point of hacking the iPhone. If you want android, I'm sure there will be a touch enabled android phone coming up real soon now.
//Just don't think you'll get away with VOIP calls and "unlimited data"
Comments
Well it goes both ways...There are things you can do on the iPhone that you can't with Android. So maybe Andriod users should start a petition to get Google to put iPhone capabilities in their OS. *end sarcasm*
They already are. Opera Browser for a 2nd browswer on Android greeted with open arms. That's the benefit of the Android.
The developers aren't limited by Apples day to day rule changes and Steve's paranoid NDA.
*End - No sarcasm meant.
That would be amazing. Here is a video of it in action:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSJM4r4PVuY
The thing is though, the OQO isn't a phone. Apple would have to make a Newton-like device and the market might be too small. I think the market is big for a tablet (doctors etc) but what size is right?
What size? Pocketable like this:
Next Apple moves will be Books and Games?
http://spidouz.wordpress.com/2008/09...ooks-and-games
Or are you just one of those guys that isn't happy until he has everything precisely HIS way?
Just listen to yourself. Apple have got you brainwashed good. Do you do everything Steve Jobs tells you to do?
They already are. Opera Browser for a 2nd browswer on Android greeted with open arms. That's the benefit of the Android.
The developers aren't limited by Apples day to day rule changes and Steve's paranoid NDA.
*End - No sarcasm meant.
Ok...that post had absolutely nothing to do with what I posted about, but whatever!
At any rate, the fact phone systems are still tied to Telcos makes this a nice academic project to add one more piece of hardware able to boot Linux or any other OS for that matter.
I'd rather work hard at developing applications for the platform that slowly will be accessible over this exercise.
Regarding your Leopard need storage, I have been playing around installing leopard on a FW drive I have laying around. I have 10.5.5 down to 6.5 GB. Of course, no printer drivers and one language with PPC architecture removed from Applications when possible via XSlimmer. I tell you, that is not bad for a fully functioning OS in size. I was surprised I was able to get it down to that size with a custom install and one click of an application.
I imagine Snow Leopard may add reductions on top of this.
A lot of the problems with the preinstalled apps are Apple's media apps. Audio loops for Garage Band and themes for iPhoto and iDVD consume many gigs of space. Final Cut Express and Studio can make that figure explode.
THAT would be very helpful to end users.
They already are. Opera Browser for a 2nd browswer on Android greeted with open arms. That's the benefit of the Android.
The developers aren't limited by Apples day to day rule changes and Steve's paranoid NDA.
*End - No sarcasm meant.
Why would anyone want to run linux on an iPhone? What an unbelievable waste of time and effort.
It's not clear to me that the XNU Kernel is in anyway technically deficient or inferior to the Linux Kernel?
It's not on both counts.
Running Linux on an iPhone is like buying a brand new Ferrari, removing the engine, and installing a Yugo engine.
You have the above backwards, Linux would be a far more powerful OS. The primary reason being Apple going to great lengths to castrate Mobile OS.
It will work, it will give satisfaction of being able to do it, but it won't impress that many people.
It doesn't have to. All it needs to do is offer up features Mobile OS doesn't to people that could use such
Your time is better spent developing iPhone applications. The APP store will distribute them worldwide.
You're putting Linux on the iPhone? Don't quit your day-job.
Well that could be said for most app store developers. To be honest though I still believe thereis a place for Linux on the small Devices market. IPhone simply provides a platform to test real world code. You don't need great expectations to see value in the project.
Dave
It's not clear to me that the XNU Kernel is in anyway technically deficient or inferior to the Linux Kernel?
While I could argue the point as to which is better for what there is little point in that. The problem isn't so much the kernel as it is what Apple is delivering on iPhone. Or maybe more exactly what they aren't. There is little indication that Apple is deveolping Mobile OS in the right direction.
Look at it this way all OSes evolve overtime, but in the case of iPhone it looks like Apple has a lot of artificial walls in place to restrict that evolution. One big question in my mind is where is the BluTooth stack? Be it the various audio profiles, the profile for async or whatever.
Install Linux and eventually all the hardware will be supported on IPhone. Simply put that isn't the case right now with IPhone. Further it looks like the lack of hardware support is on purpose which makes one wonder why Apple isn't feeding the baby. Starve the child and it will die early.
That is hardware support then we have Apples stubborness with respect to interperters. This one bugs me as it implies a lot of development time for apps that don't need it or can't justify the time. Of course this flies in the face of App store distribution but frankly screw the idea that only one form of app and delivery is acceptable. What this means in a nut shell is this where is Python on iPhone.
I bring up python as a developer, that doesn't see XCode and Objective C as being the best solution for every task that somebody might do on iPhone.
Dave
Just because you think it is a waste of time should not negate the eff
It's easy for you to sit on your high-chair and criticize the effort of other people.
It's "high horse". Someone sitting in a high chair is too young to be criticizing anyone because they can't read, or likely, talk.
hehe. I pity my wife too. But just coz she is stuck with me. Not because I want her to be something she is not. All people are imperfect (sadly including me). I was really referring to purchased things. I do think I should be able to purchase things and expect certain things.
To a certain extent you are correct (though I don't know about your wife).
But your solution is wrong. Changing the OS for another to just get one or two features isn't really useful. The comment about getting the Android phone does make more sense, or for that matter, any other phone that gives you that feature or two.
Because your solution tells us that there is so little about the iPhone OS that you like, that you would rather just replace it altogether with another.
Of course, the Android OS couldn't take advantage of the multitouch screen and other hardware features, such as the accelerated Open GL the iPhone has.
You would be giving up far more than you gained.
Which is why I can only think that your solution was really meant to be tongue in cheek.
You have the above backwards, Linux would be a far more powerful OS. The primary reason being Apple going to great lengths to castrate Mobile OS.
It doesn't have to. All it needs to do is offer up features Mobile OS doesn't to people that could use such
Well that could be said for most app store developers. To be honest though I still believe thereis a place for Linux on the small Devices market. IPhone simply provides a platform to test real world code. You don't need great expectations to see value in the project.
Dave
Linux, or more accurately, a Linux distro, wouldn't be more powerful, because you are limited by the hardware in the phone.
The fact that Apple does limit some programs doesn't mean that Linux would get better ones.
Some of the work that Apple did to get certain features such as multitouch working are so heavily covered by patents, that no Linux distro could emulate them in a useful way.
Other features are covered by patents and licensing agreements with other companies. Linux distro groups usually frown upon using, and paying licensing fees to anyone, which is why they are always complaining about not having many media players and formats available to them.
While I think this is an interesting project, and I will be interested in seeing how far they can get with it before they hit that wall of patents and licensing agreements, it's not something that will be useful.
While I could argue the point as to which is better for what there is little point in that. The problem isn't so much the kernel as it is what Apple is delivering on iPhone. Or maybe more exactly what they aren't. There is little indication that Apple is deveolping Mobile OS in the right direction.
Look at it this way all OSes evolve overtime, but in the case of iPhone it looks like Apple has a lot of artificial walls in place to restrict that evolution. One big question in my mind is where is the BluTooth stack? Be it the various audio profiles, the profile for async or whatever.
Install Linux and eventually all the hardware will be supported on IPhone. Simply put that isn't the case right now with IPhone. Further it looks like the lack of hardware support is on purpose which makes one wonder why Apple isn't feeding the baby. Starve the child and it will die early.
That is hardware support then we have Apples stubborness with respect to interperters. This one bugs me as it implies a lot of development time for apps that don't need it or can't justify the time. Of course this flies in the face of App store distribution but frankly screw the idea that only one form of app and delivery is acceptable. What this means in a nut shell is this where is Python on iPhone.
I bring up python as a developer, that doesn't see XCode and Objective C as being the best solution for every task that somebody might do on iPhone.
Dave
I can't agree with you on this. You think Apple is taking this in the wrong direction, but sales will determine that. That is the ultimate arbiter.
Also don't forget that this is still a young system. You don't know what Apple has planned for it in the future. It's very possible that ver 3 will have everything everyone here wants.
Surely, you aren't saying that MS, RIM, Palm, and Nokia and Symbian are all going in the right direction?
I could point out major deficiencies in all of those systems that outrank those in Apple.
Generally, the features in the iPhone OS aren't of a nature that can't be added later. Some others, such as Win Mobile, Palm, and Symbian, (I'm not as familiar with RIMS, though I've seen some artificial limits written of) are limited by the concept of the OS itself, and would have to be written from the ground up to fix it.
Apple often changes their mind about what to allow developers and users. They have already made more than one turnaround here for the iPhone, and I expect more.
It just looks to me as though they are going slowly, without rushing into adding too much at once. It's only ver 2 after all. For cut and paste, for instance, Win Mobile didn't get that until ver 3 either.
I think it's too early to tell where Apple is actually taking this long term. Next year some time, when ver 3 comes out, and new hardware, we will have a much better idea.
To a certain extent you are correct (though I don't know about your wife).
But your solution is wrong. Changing the OS for another to just get one or two features isn't really useful. The comment about getting the Android phone does make more sense, or for that matter, any other phone that gives you that feature or two.
Because your solution tells us that there is so little about the iPhone OS that you like, that you would rather just replace it altogether with another.
Of course, the Android OS couldn't take advantage of the multitouch screen and other hardware features, such as the accelerated Open GL the iPhone has.
You would be giving up far more than you gained.
Which is why I can only think that your solution was really meant to be tongue in cheek.
Spot on. Of course it was tongue and cheek. Seems it got a lot of people razed up though. Can't believe how many people take this sort of stuff so serious.
Spot on. Of course it was tongue and cheek. Seems it got a lot of people razed up though. Can't believe how many people take this sort of stuff so serious.
Yes, well, if you go to the RED (Video camera manufacturer) forums, you will find far worse. In fact, the owner of the company will harass you himself! How's that for service?
A milestone has been reached in iPhone firmware modification on Friday with the first alternative operating system for the hardware, Linux, now running on the device.
oh boy... I bet the crack team was working hard. They ported Linux to a system that is already running darwin aka freeBSD? and for a CPU core and video chipset that has long had Linux support?
Wow. I'm Impressed. Next we'll see them port OPIE, GPE, and/or Familiar.
Oh wait... no we won't because these folks apparently like to reinvent to wheel.
/ sorry.. I'm in a grumpy mood today. Never have seen the point of hacking the iPhone. If you want android, I'm sure there will be a touch enabled android phone coming up real soon now.
//Just don't think you'll get away with VOIP calls and "unlimited data"