No way man. We (the computer industry) finally had a chance to have a single, ubiquitious display connector, that we haven't had since the days of VGA, and Apple has shit in everyone's custard.
Pretty funny.
Gee, if Apple had only put Windows in their laptops we could've had a standard.
Frankly, that site (and DED in general) is hard to take seriously.
Frankly, you are hard to take seriously.
Thanks for providing your reasoning on why my source is invalid and an alternate source and explanation of the issues being raised in this discussion. Oh right, you've done neither of those things. Thanks for nothing.
For those who keep repeating that Mini DisplayPort isn't that much smaller, take a look at the pictures below. Look at the DVI connector (top left), then the DVI port (bottom center-left), then the "full" DisplayPort connector (top right), then the Mini DisplayPort port (bottom center-right):
(Note: the bottom picture should be scaled down a bit to match up with the DVI connector in the top picture.)
First, DisplayPort was designed with reduced size in mind. After all, the standard DisplayPort connector is a lot smaller than VGA and DVI connectors. Second, Apple showed its own "lack of foresight" by making not one, but two proprietary DVI connectors: Mini DVI followed by Micro DVI. Has Apple learned from this, or should we look forward to Apple introducing Micro DisplayPort and Nano DisplayPort?
I give credit where it's due. All connectors have been getting smaller over time. Out with the old, and in with the new.
I'm just pointing out that just because VESA has agreed upon a standard connector, it doesn't mean that it's the best choice, or that it serves every product category.
How do we look at all the connector types that exist for USB and Firewire? Each connector serves its own purpose. New ones are developed as new purposes are discovered that the old connectors aren't best suited for.
Camcorder manufacturers can't truly say that a full size FW or USB connector can't fit on even the smallest of devices, but they choose a connector that was designed to be much smaller, and that normally can't even carry power. Why? Because it's more convienient for them to use a smaller connector.
The same it true of still cameras.
So, it's not normally a matter of fitting the "standard" connectors in, because it CAN be done. But why should they? The smaller the connector, the easier the design is. Having designed plenty of electronics, I can say thar connectors are one of the biggest (no pun intended) problems we have. Either they are too flimsy, too big, or too expensive.
The industry is always looking to make connectors smaller and less expensive. That won't stop.
One of the reasons for getting rid of SCSI and PATA was the cable mess. My last hi quality cables for my SCSI externals cost $150 apiece!
My hi quality component VGA cables were $75!
Now, cable costs are nothing to even think about.
If inventing a smaller DisplayPort connector makes design easier for Apple, esp. if they are thinking of even smaller products, then other manufacturers will be thinking the same thing. After all, there is nothing the "full size" connector can do that the mini can't.
The point about having a cable that goes from mini-dp to dp directly is fair but Apple haven't gone to market with this first. Dell was first and they went with Displayport about a year ago. When I say 'about a year', I mean in the Apple sense of the phrase. 10 months ago.
This means that some displays will come with dp-dp connectors and if I take a Mac laptop to an office and they want me to simply plug it into a display, I'll always have to make sure to have my mini-dp to dp cable with me.
Is it a huge burden? No, of course not but it's a burden nonetheless that didn't need to exist. The displayport port is around the size of a USB port so the fact that Apple haven't opted for mini-USB suggests they could easily have gone with displayport.
The only justification I can see for it is if in future it extends to mobile devices and being able to connect them to standard displays. But most people output to TVs not computer displays and they can't drive very high resolutions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
Don't forget, guys, that this won't be the last video port ever designed.
I reckon it might be wireless after this. Either that or use USB3, maybe USB4.
It's one of those things where it's difficult to say if it's a good move or not until the market decides.
The PC industry clearly just doesn't approve of things that are Apple. Apple were pushing firewire but people complained about the license and yet look at HDMI taking off despite having to pay up for a license. Look at ITMS, rather than offer support, the industry just goes ahead and makes as many competing services with a lot of the same restrictions like using Windows Media DRM content, which won't play on a Mac.
The effect on Mac users if people don't adopt mini-displayport isn't that bad though. For desktop users, it just means getting the right cable and for laptop users, it means carrying the cable or adaptor around. Right now, there is a big problem as there's no direct HDMI output, you have to go dp->DVI->HDMI. This means you have to spend the money on Apple's overpriced adaptors.
Because no reasonable company would design such a device. Nobody else makes their engineers design around the eccentricities of their design team.
You are totally wrong in that. It happens all the time. Though I disagree with your term. So very often devices are designed that need new connectors that I can't even come up with a number, other than to say it's vast.
In understanding the design process, you have to know how it develops.
What happens often enough is this:
"We need this new device to be this size, and have these features."
"We can't fit the connectors on it. It's too small. It will have to be bigger."
"No, it has to be this size."
"Well, the connectors won't fit."
"Then make sure they do."
"Well, we'll need connectors that will fit."
"So, what's the problem? Find different ones."
"There aren't any that we can use."
"I really don't see what your problem is. Design your own."
"Well, ok, we can do that."
There are literally thousands of "standard" connectors around for every conceivable purpose. More are being developed every day, literally!
Before our lifetimes are over, we will see dozens more for the end user. The number used by industry that you don't know about, fits in many dozens of pages in catalogs.
Thanks for providing your reasoning on why my source is invalid and an alternate source and explanation of the issues being raised in this discussion. Oh right, you've done neither of those things. Thanks for nothing.
That posting on that site may be OK, but I say that because the writing on that site tends to be a defacto PR wing of Apple, Inc.
Any place there is a matter of subjectivity, most of the time it tends to take the side of Apple without acknowledging any positives of the other side of the discussion.
The point about having a cable that goes from mini-dp to dp directly is fair but Apple haven't gone to market with this first. Dell was first and they went with Displayport about a year ago. When I say 'about a year', I mean in the Apple sense of the phrase. 10 months ago.
This means that some displays will come with dp-dp connectors and if I take a Mac laptop to an office and they want me to simply plug it into a display, I'll always have to make sure to have my mini-dp to dp cable with me.
Is it a huge burden? No, of course not but it's a burden nonetheless that didn't need to exist. The displayport port is around the size of a USB port so the fact that Apple haven't opted for mini-USB suggests they could easily have gone with displayport.
The only justification I can see for it is if in future it extends to mobile devices and being able to connect them to standard displays. But most people output to TVs not computer displays and they can't drive very high resolutions.
I reckon it might be wireless after this. Either that or use USB3, maybe USB4.
It's one of those things where it's difficult to say if it's a good move or not until the market decides.
The PC industry clearly just doesn't approve of things that are Apple. Apple were pushing firewire but people complained about the license and yet look at HDMI taking off despite having to pay up for a license. Look at ITMS, rather than offer support, the industry just goes ahead and makes as many competing services with a lot of the same restrictions like using Windows Media DRM content, which won't play on a Mac.
The effect on Mac users if people don't adopt mini-displayport isn't that bad though. For desktop users, it just means getting the right cable and for laptop users, it means carrying the cable or adaptor around. Right now, there is a big problem as there's no direct HDMI output, you have to go dp->DVI->HDMI. This means you have to spend the money on Apple's overpriced adaptors.
What I see here is that some people are more worried about the minor inconvience that may arise, but are ignoring the possible advantage.
Even though a handful of devices have been out already, it's just a handful. how many have actually sols is another question.
This is like USB. Until Apple supported it in the iMac, it was no more than a poorly functioning curiosity. After that, it took off.
The same thing could easily happen here. Apple sells at least 16% of all the laptops sold in the US, possibly more after this season is over. That's a far larger percentage of sales (and ports) than all the other devices that have had DP on them are selling together. That will make Apple the mover of DP technology.That's the truth. When Apple puts this in their other models early next year, which is only a short time away, then the 20+% of all computers sold retail (which is Apple's numbers in the US) will have a mini DP connector. That also means that over 66% of all computers selling for more than $1,000 will have them as well, which is where most people will by buying new DP monitors in the near term.
What does that tell you?
It should be telling you that Apple has an oversized influence as to which connectors will be seen, and used.
Apple isn't where they were with FW long ago. Others must pay attention these days, and they do.
That posting on that site may be OK, but I say that because the writing on that site tends to be a defacto PR wing of Apple, Inc.
Any place there is a matter of subjectivity, most of the time it tends to take the side of Apple without acknowledging any positives of the other side of the discussion.
Thanks for your reasoning, though you haven't provided an alternative source that better explains the issue, nor really said how that article is misleading. That article also states opposing views and then refutes them. There's no such thing as truly objective news anyway; most of the tech media is anti-Apple and they're also generally wrong and misinformed on what the market wants.
Bad engineering is when the device doesn't work well, or serve its purpose.
Neither seems to be the case here so far as we know.
You're just not happy it's a different, smaller, size.
The thing here is that DisplayPort is still so new, that very little products have it.
This means that the "standard" size port isn't really standard yet. That means that if Apple sells enough computers with this one, it will stand a good chance to have other manufacturers want to supply products that interface with it.
Even if we just find mini to standard cables coming out, it's fine.
Agreed, you people whining about the standard obviously don't understand what has happened with USB & firewire in the way of port standards. All those miniature usb port types you find on various cameras are a result of no good standard mini port for USB. Firewire on the otherhand has one smaller port that is comparable to the full size 400 port.
Those of you complaining don't understand the history of the cabling industry, Apple has actually done us a service by creating a mini-display port so early on before the standard display port has really been adopted. Maybe this way we won't even have to deal with a full & mini standard. If Apple's mini-display port takes off in the market then maybe for once we'll have 1 standard port everyone can use!!
Those of you complaining don't understand the history of the cabling industry, Apple has actually done us a service by creating a mini-display port so early on before the standard display port has really been adopted. Maybe this way we won't even have to deal with a full & mini standard. If Apple's mini-display port takes off in the market then maybe for once we'll have 1 standard port everyone can use!!
Well said. People keep making the assumption that the larger, more costly (in terms of bulk material), less power efficient standard will win out over Apple's smaller, more cost and power efficient version. In many ways, Mini DisplayPort is like if Apple had developed Firewire to be superior in every way to USB including cost. Apple has had to rethink and/or drop their support of Firewire due to that last factor, which they won't have to do with Mini DisplayPort (unless full DisplayPort magically becomes deeply intrenched, which seems highly unlikely).
Agreed, you people whining about the standard obviously don't understand what has happened with USB & firewire in the way of port standards. All those miniature usb port types you find on various cameras are a result of no good standard mini port for USB. Firewire on the otherhand has one smaller port that is comparable to the full size 400 port.
Those of you complaining don't understand the history of the cabling industry, Apple has actually done us a service by creating a mini-display port so early on before the standard display port has really been adopted. Maybe this way we won't even have to deal with a full & mini standard. If Apple's mini-display port takes off in the market then maybe for once we'll have 1 standard port everyone can use!!
There is a difference here. The smaller type-B variants of USB have a full size USB type A connector. They work with your computer, printer, or other device out of the both. 4, 6, and 9 pin firewire are designed to be part of a firewire ecosystem. Devices usually come with cables for both 4 and 6 pin firewire. Mini-VGA/DVI was designed to work with VGA and DVI displays out of the box ( well, until Apple got cheap and stoped including the adapter).
So far, Mini-DP has been handled more like ADC where they take a standard and make a parallel implementation modified to their uses. Scratch that, ADC at least had adapters both ways to the standard DVI. Look, we don't know what Apple's ultimate intentions are here. I can only go by what I see and what I see worries me. Until the new cinema display came out, Apple had never released a monitor based on a mini variant of a port. It could be a model designed as a quazi-docking station for laptops or it could be the sign of things to come.
Right now all we have is uncertainty. Will Apple or anyone else release video out, HDMI, or standard displayport adapters for Mini-DP? We don't know. Will Apple adopt DP or Mini-DP for its desktop products? I don't know. Will mini-DP catch on with anyone other than Apple? I don't know. The one thing I do know is that I can't assume everything is going to just peachy because Apple says so. I, we need evidence one way or the other.
There is a difference here. The smaller type-B variants of USB have a full size USB type A connector. They work with your computer, printer, or other device out of the both. 4, 6, and 9 pin firewire are designed to be part of a firewire ecosystem.
You guys are taking this to soap opera level dramatics. Their is nothing that prevents a a full DP to mini DP cable.
Quote:
Look, we don't know what Apple's ultimate intentions are here. I can only go by what I see and what I see worries me. Right now all we have is uncertainty. Will Apple or anyone else release video out, HDMI, or standard displayport adapters for Mini-DP? We don't know. Will Apple adopt DP or Mini-DP for its desktop products? I don't know. Will mini-DP catch on with anyone other than Apple? I don't know. The one thing I do know is that I can't assume everything is going to just peachy because Apple says so. I, we need evidence one way or the other.
We don't have uncertainty. Apple offers a free license for mini DP to anyone who wants to use it.
Yes their will be adaptors for mini DP. Yes someone other than Apple is going to use mini DP.
It's high time Apple does something similar with the MagSafe adapters.
Would they extort ridiculously high prices and sell MagSafe accessories themselves, there would be a point, from a share holder perspective, to Apple's actions.
But all Apple's MagSafe policy leads to is that important products are not available or only available as hacks.
(Never mind that Apple should never have gotten a patent on the MagSafe adapter, if the patent system would work properly, given that magnetic plugs are common place for tea kettles and rice cookers!)
We still don't have a proper car power adapter or a universal AC/Car/Air adapter like I have for my PowerBook. Can't use it, because there's no power tip available. (The company has one ready, but can't ship it for licensing reasons!)
All Apple does is cause its customers grief with these policies.
There is a difference here. The smaller type-B variants of USB have a full size USB type A connector. They work with your computer, printer, or other device out of the both. 4, 6, and 9 pin firewire are designed to be part of a firewire ecosystem. Devices usually come with cables for both 4 and 6 pin firewire. Mini-VGA/DVI was designed to work with VGA and DVI displays out of the box ( well, until Apple got cheap and stoped including the adapter).
I can't think of a single product that I've bought that required a FW or USB cable, that when they included the cable at all, and many haven't, included more than one.
Quote:
So far, Mini-DP has been handled more like ADC where they take a standard and make a parallel implementation modified to their uses. Scratch that, ADC at least had adapters both ways to the standard DVI. Look, we don't know what Apple's ultimate intentions are here. I can only go by what I see and what I see worries me. Until the new cinema display came out, Apple had never released a monitor based on a mini variant of a port. It could be a model designed as a quazi-docking station for laptops or it could be the sign of things to come.
I don't remember how Apple handled ADC, but here, they've announced free licensing from the very beginning, and have entered the connector to VESA's standardization process even BEFORE Apple's new products came out.
Quote:
Right now all we have is uncertainty. Will Apple or anyone else release video out, HDMI, or standard displayport adapters for Mini-DP? We don't know. Will Apple adopt DP or Mini-DP for its desktop products? I don't know. Will mini-DP catch on with anyone other than Apple? I don't know. The one thing I do know is that I can't assume everything is going to just peachy because Apple says so. I, we need evidence one way or the other.
While there is uncertainty for sure, some of what you offer there is not correct.
Apple DID announce, as you should know from at least what you've read here, that mini DP will be on ALL of their new computers. So, that part is fixed.
The only way we'll get evidence is to wait to see what happens.
It's high time Apple does something similar with the MagSafe adapters.
Would they extort ridiculously high prices and sell MagSafe accessories themselves, there would be a point, from a share holder perspective, to Apple's actions.
But all Apple's MagSafe policy leads to is that important products are not available or only available as hacks.
(Never mind that Apple should never have gotten a patent on the MagSafe adapter, if the patent system would work properly, given that magnetic plugs are common place for tea kettles and rice cookers!)
We still don't have a proper car power adapter or a universal AC/Car/Air adapter like I have for my PowerBook. Can't use it, because there's no power tip available. (The company has one ready, but can't ship it for licensing reasons!)
All Apple does is cause its customers grief with these policies.
Are you serious about this? What does this have to do with anything here?
First of all, any company that want to come out with a connector that works the way the MagSafe connector does is free to do so. Apple can't patent the idea of the connector, only the specific design, because it's nothing new.
Yes, folks, it's nothing new!
My chocolate fountain (you know, those things that melt chocolate then pump it up the top to cascade over several curved levels to drop to the bottom where it goes round and round 'till the kids sop up all the chocolate and get sick the next morning), which I bought a couple of years before Apple came out with their MagSafe connector, has one too!
Yes, my $75 dollar chocolate machine has a "MagSafe" connector.
So whatever patents Apple took out on theirs, are specific to Apple's design.
Now that I've been looking for them, I've found them elsewhere as well.
So Apple can do whatever they want to, often, it has no effect on anyone else.
Comments
Nobody else makes their engineers design around the eccentricities of their design team.
And nobody else gets purchases from me based on their design. Who's reasonable now?
Very nice unibody macbooks. Very unstylish internet pants for connectors.
Purchased a Display Port Male to a HDMI Female today from Mono Price. Price seemed to be fair to me.
Do you also have a DisplayPort to mini DisplayPort connector?
No way man. We (the computer industry) finally had a chance to have a single, ubiquitious display connector, that we haven't had since the days of VGA, and Apple has shit in everyone's custard.
Pretty funny.
Gee, if Apple had only put Windows in their laptops we could've had a standard.
Frankly, that site (and DED in general) is hard to take seriously.
Frankly, you are hard to take seriously.
Thanks for providing your reasoning on why my source is invalid and an alternate source and explanation of the issues being raised in this discussion. Oh right, you've done neither of those things. Thanks for nothing.
For those who keep repeating that Mini DisplayPort isn't that much smaller, take a look at the pictures below. Look at the DVI connector (top left), then the DVI port (bottom center-left), then the "full" DisplayPort connector (top right), then the Mini DisplayPort port (bottom center-right):
(Note: the bottom picture should be scaled down a bit to match up with the DVI connector in the top picture.)
First, DisplayPort was designed with reduced size in mind. After all, the standard DisplayPort connector is a lot smaller than VGA and DVI connectors. Second, Apple showed its own "lack of foresight" by making not one, but two proprietary DVI connectors: Mini DVI followed by Micro DVI. Has Apple learned from this, or should we look forward to Apple introducing Micro DisplayPort and Nano DisplayPort?
I give credit where it's due. All connectors have been getting smaller over time. Out with the old, and in with the new.
I'm just pointing out that just because VESA has agreed upon a standard connector, it doesn't mean that it's the best choice, or that it serves every product category.
How do we look at all the connector types that exist for USB and Firewire? Each connector serves its own purpose. New ones are developed as new purposes are discovered that the old connectors aren't best suited for.
Camcorder manufacturers can't truly say that a full size FW or USB connector can't fit on even the smallest of devices, but they choose a connector that was designed to be much smaller, and that normally can't even carry power. Why? Because it's more convienient for them to use a smaller connector.
The same it true of still cameras.
So, it's not normally a matter of fitting the "standard" connectors in, because it CAN be done. But why should they? The smaller the connector, the easier the design is. Having designed plenty of electronics, I can say thar connectors are one of the biggest (no pun intended) problems we have. Either they are too flimsy, too big, or too expensive.
The industry is always looking to make connectors smaller and less expensive. That won't stop.
One of the reasons for getting rid of SCSI and PATA was the cable mess. My last hi quality cables for my SCSI externals cost $150 apiece!
My hi quality component VGA cables were $75!
Now, cable costs are nothing to even think about.
If inventing a smaller DisplayPort connector makes design easier for Apple, esp. if they are thinking of even smaller products, then other manufacturers will be thinking the same thing. After all, there is nothing the "full size" connector can do that the mini can't.
This means that some displays will come with dp-dp connectors and if I take a Mac laptop to an office and they want me to simply plug it into a display, I'll always have to make sure to have my mini-dp to dp cable with me.
Is it a huge burden? No, of course not but it's a burden nonetheless that didn't need to exist. The displayport port is around the size of a USB port so the fact that Apple haven't opted for mini-USB suggests they could easily have gone with displayport.
The only justification I can see for it is if in future it extends to mobile devices and being able to connect them to standard displays. But most people output to TVs not computer displays and they can't drive very high resolutions.
Don't forget, guys, that this won't be the last video port ever designed.
I reckon it might be wireless after this. Either that or use USB3, maybe USB4.
It's one of those things where it's difficult to say if it's a good move or not until the market decides.
The PC industry clearly just doesn't approve of things that are Apple. Apple were pushing firewire but people complained about the license and yet look at HDMI taking off despite having to pay up for a license. Look at ITMS, rather than offer support, the industry just goes ahead and makes as many competing services with a lot of the same restrictions like using Windows Media DRM content, which won't play on a Mac.
The effect on Mac users if people don't adopt mini-displayport isn't that bad though. For desktop users, it just means getting the right cable and for laptop users, it means carrying the cable or adaptor around. Right now, there is a big problem as there's no direct HDMI output, you have to go dp->DVI->HDMI. This means you have to spend the money on Apple's overpriced adaptors.
Because no reasonable company would design such a device. Nobody else makes their engineers design around the eccentricities of their design team.
You are totally wrong in that. It happens all the time. Though I disagree with your term. So very often devices are designed that need new connectors that I can't even come up with a number, other than to say it's vast.
In understanding the design process, you have to know how it develops.
What happens often enough is this:
"We need this new device to be this size, and have these features."
"We can't fit the connectors on it. It's too small. It will have to be bigger."
"No, it has to be this size."
"Well, the connectors won't fit."
"Then make sure they do."
"Well, we'll need connectors that will fit."
"So, what's the problem? Find different ones."
"There aren't any that we can use."
"I really don't see what your problem is. Design your own."
"Well, ok, we can do that."
There are literally thousands of "standard" connectors around for every conceivable purpose. More are being developed every day, literally!
Before our lifetimes are over, we will see dozens more for the end user. The number used by industry that you don't know about, fits in many dozens of pages in catalogs.
Frankly, you are hard to take seriously.
Thanks for providing your reasoning on why my source is invalid and an alternate source and explanation of the issues being raised in this discussion. Oh right, you've done neither of those things. Thanks for nothing.
That posting on that site may be OK, but I say that because the writing on that site tends to be a defacto PR wing of Apple, Inc.
Any place there is a matter of subjectivity, most of the time it tends to take the side of Apple without acknowledging any positives of the other side of the discussion.
The point about having a cable that goes from mini-dp to dp directly is fair but Apple haven't gone to market with this first. Dell was first and they went with Displayport about a year ago. When I say 'about a year', I mean in the Apple sense of the phrase. 10 months ago.
This means that some displays will come with dp-dp connectors and if I take a Mac laptop to an office and they want me to simply plug it into a display, I'll always have to make sure to have my mini-dp to dp cable with me.
Is it a huge burden? No, of course not but it's a burden nonetheless that didn't need to exist. The displayport port is around the size of a USB port so the fact that Apple haven't opted for mini-USB suggests they could easily have gone with displayport.
The only justification I can see for it is if in future it extends to mobile devices and being able to connect them to standard displays. But most people output to TVs not computer displays and they can't drive very high resolutions.
I reckon it might be wireless after this. Either that or use USB3, maybe USB4.
It's one of those things where it's difficult to say if it's a good move or not until the market decides.
The PC industry clearly just doesn't approve of things that are Apple. Apple were pushing firewire but people complained about the license and yet look at HDMI taking off despite having to pay up for a license. Look at ITMS, rather than offer support, the industry just goes ahead and makes as many competing services with a lot of the same restrictions like using Windows Media DRM content, which won't play on a Mac.
The effect on Mac users if people don't adopt mini-displayport isn't that bad though. For desktop users, it just means getting the right cable and for laptop users, it means carrying the cable or adaptor around. Right now, there is a big problem as there's no direct HDMI output, you have to go dp->DVI->HDMI. This means you have to spend the money on Apple's overpriced adaptors.
What I see here is that some people are more worried about the minor inconvience that may arise, but are ignoring the possible advantage.
Even though a handful of devices have been out already, it's just a handful. how many have actually sols is another question.
This is like USB. Until Apple supported it in the iMac, it was no more than a poorly functioning curiosity. After that, it took off.
The same thing could easily happen here. Apple sells at least 16% of all the laptops sold in the US, possibly more after this season is over. That's a far larger percentage of sales (and ports) than all the other devices that have had DP on them are selling together. That will make Apple the mover of DP technology.That's the truth. When Apple puts this in their other models early next year, which is only a short time away, then the 20+% of all computers sold retail (which is Apple's numbers in the US) will have a mini DP connector. That also means that over 66% of all computers selling for more than $1,000 will have them as well, which is where most people will by buying new DP monitors in the near term.
What does that tell you?
It should be telling you that Apple has an oversized influence as to which connectors will be seen, and used.
Apple isn't where they were with FW long ago. Others must pay attention these days, and they do.
That posting on that site may be OK, but I say that because the writing on that site tends to be a defacto PR wing of Apple, Inc.
Any place there is a matter of subjectivity, most of the time it tends to take the side of Apple without acknowledging any positives of the other side of the discussion.
Thanks for your reasoning, though you haven't provided an alternative source that better explains the issue, nor really said how that article is misleading. That article also states opposing views and then refutes them. There's no such thing as truly objective news anyway; most of the tech media is anti-Apple and they're also generally wrong and misinformed on what the market wants.
Bad engineering is when the device doesn't work well, or serve its purpose.
Neither seems to be the case here so far as we know.
You're just not happy it's a different, smaller, size.
The thing here is that DisplayPort is still so new, that very little products have it.
This means that the "standard" size port isn't really standard yet. That means that if Apple sells enough computers with this one, it will stand a good chance to have other manufacturers want to supply products that interface with it.
Even if we just find mini to standard cables coming out, it's fine.
Agreed, you people whining about the standard obviously don't understand what has happened with USB & firewire in the way of port standards. All those miniature usb port types you find on various cameras are a result of no good standard mini port for USB. Firewire on the otherhand has one smaller port that is comparable to the full size 400 port.
Those of you complaining don't understand the history of the cabling industry, Apple has actually done us a service by creating a mini-display port so early on before the standard display port has really been adopted. Maybe this way we won't even have to deal with a full & mini standard. If Apple's mini-display port takes off in the market then maybe for once we'll have 1 standard port everyone can use!!
Those of you complaining don't understand the history of the cabling industry, Apple has actually done us a service by creating a mini-display port so early on before the standard display port has really been adopted. Maybe this way we won't even have to deal with a full & mini standard. If Apple's mini-display port takes off in the market then maybe for once we'll have 1 standard port everyone can use!!
Well said. People keep making the assumption that the larger, more costly (in terms of bulk material), less power efficient standard will win out over Apple's smaller, more cost and power efficient version. In many ways, Mini DisplayPort is like if Apple had developed Firewire to be superior in every way to USB including cost. Apple has had to rethink and/or drop their support of Firewire due to that last factor, which they won't have to do with Mini DisplayPort (unless full DisplayPort magically becomes deeply intrenched, which seems highly unlikely).
Agreed, you people whining about the standard obviously don't understand what has happened with USB & firewire in the way of port standards. All those miniature usb port types you find on various cameras are a result of no good standard mini port for USB. Firewire on the otherhand has one smaller port that is comparable to the full size 400 port.
Those of you complaining don't understand the history of the cabling industry, Apple has actually done us a service by creating a mini-display port so early on before the standard display port has really been adopted. Maybe this way we won't even have to deal with a full & mini standard. If Apple's mini-display port takes off in the market then maybe for once we'll have 1 standard port everyone can use!!
There is a difference here. The smaller type-B variants of USB have a full size USB type A connector. They work with your computer, printer, or other device out of the both. 4, 6, and 9 pin firewire are designed to be part of a firewire ecosystem. Devices usually come with cables for both 4 and 6 pin firewire. Mini-VGA/DVI was designed to work with VGA and DVI displays out of the box ( well, until Apple got cheap and stoped including the adapter).
So far, Mini-DP has been handled more like ADC where they take a standard and make a parallel implementation modified to their uses. Scratch that, ADC at least had adapters both ways to the standard DVI. Look, we don't know what Apple's ultimate intentions are here. I can only go by what I see and what I see worries me. Until the new cinema display came out, Apple had never released a monitor based on a mini variant of a port. It could be a model designed as a quazi-docking station for laptops or it could be the sign of things to come.
Right now all we have is uncertainty. Will Apple or anyone else release video out, HDMI, or standard displayport adapters for Mini-DP? We don't know. Will Apple adopt DP or Mini-DP for its desktop products? I don't know. Will mini-DP catch on with anyone other than Apple? I don't know. The one thing I do know is that I can't assume everything is going to just peachy because Apple says so. I, we need evidence one way or the other.
There is a difference here. The smaller type-B variants of USB have a full size USB type A connector. They work with your computer, printer, or other device out of the both. 4, 6, and 9 pin firewire are designed to be part of a firewire ecosystem.
You guys are taking this to soap opera level dramatics. Their is nothing that prevents a a full DP to mini DP cable.
Look, we don't know what Apple's ultimate intentions are here. I can only go by what I see and what I see worries me. Right now all we have is uncertainty. Will Apple or anyone else release video out, HDMI, or standard displayport adapters for Mini-DP? We don't know. Will Apple adopt DP or Mini-DP for its desktop products? I don't know. Will mini-DP catch on with anyone other than Apple? I don't know. The one thing I do know is that I can't assume everything is going to just peachy because Apple says so. I, we need evidence one way or the other.
We don't have uncertainty. Apple offers a free license for mini DP to anyone who wants to use it.
Yes their will be adaptors for mini DP. Yes someone other than Apple is going to use mini DP.
Would they extort ridiculously high prices and sell MagSafe accessories themselves, there would be a point, from a share holder perspective, to Apple's actions.
But all Apple's MagSafe policy leads to is that important products are not available or only available as hacks.
(Never mind that Apple should never have gotten a patent on the MagSafe adapter, if the patent system would work properly, given that magnetic plugs are common place for tea kettles and rice cookers!)
We still don't have a proper car power adapter or a universal AC/Car/Air adapter like I have for my PowerBook. Can't use it, because there's no power tip available. (The company has one ready, but can't ship it for licensing reasons!)
All Apple does is cause its customers grief with these policies.
If Apple's mini-display port takes off in the market then maybe for once we'll have 1 standard port everyone can use!!
Until Apple decides to introduce "Micro DisplayPort" or "Nano DisplayPort", just like they did with Mini DVI followed by Micro DVI.
There is a difference here. The smaller type-B variants of USB have a full size USB type A connector. They work with your computer, printer, or other device out of the both. 4, 6, and 9 pin firewire are designed to be part of a firewire ecosystem. Devices usually come with cables for both 4 and 6 pin firewire. Mini-VGA/DVI was designed to work with VGA and DVI displays out of the box ( well, until Apple got cheap and stoped including the adapter).
I can't think of a single product that I've bought that required a FW or USB cable, that when they included the cable at all, and many haven't, included more than one.
So far, Mini-DP has been handled more like ADC where they take a standard and make a parallel implementation modified to their uses. Scratch that, ADC at least had adapters both ways to the standard DVI. Look, we don't know what Apple's ultimate intentions are here. I can only go by what I see and what I see worries me. Until the new cinema display came out, Apple had never released a monitor based on a mini variant of a port. It could be a model designed as a quazi-docking station for laptops or it could be the sign of things to come.
I don't remember how Apple handled ADC, but here, they've announced free licensing from the very beginning, and have entered the connector to VESA's standardization process even BEFORE Apple's new products came out.
Right now all we have is uncertainty. Will Apple or anyone else release video out, HDMI, or standard displayport adapters for Mini-DP? We don't know. Will Apple adopt DP or Mini-DP for its desktop products? I don't know. Will mini-DP catch on with anyone other than Apple? I don't know. The one thing I do know is that I can't assume everything is going to just peachy because Apple says so. I, we need evidence one way or the other.
While there is uncertainty for sure, some of what you offer there is not correct.
Apple DID announce, as you should know from at least what you've read here, that mini DP will be on ALL of their new computers. So, that part is fixed.
The only way we'll get evidence is to wait to see what happens.
It's high time Apple does something similar with the MagSafe adapters.
Would they extort ridiculously high prices and sell MagSafe accessories themselves, there would be a point, from a share holder perspective, to Apple's actions.
But all Apple's MagSafe policy leads to is that important products are not available or only available as hacks.
(Never mind that Apple should never have gotten a patent on the MagSafe adapter, if the patent system would work properly, given that magnetic plugs are common place for tea kettles and rice cookers!)
We still don't have a proper car power adapter or a universal AC/Car/Air adapter like I have for my PowerBook. Can't use it, because there's no power tip available. (The company has one ready, but can't ship it for licensing reasons!)
All Apple does is cause its customers grief with these policies.
Are you serious about this? What does this have to do with anything here?
First of all, any company that want to come out with a connector that works the way the MagSafe connector does is free to do so. Apple can't patent the idea of the connector, only the specific design, because it's nothing new.
Yes, folks, it's nothing new!
My chocolate fountain (you know, those things that melt chocolate then pump it up the top to cascade over several curved levels to drop to the bottom where it goes round and round 'till the kids sop up all the chocolate and get sick the next morning), which I bought a couple of years before Apple came out with their MagSafe connector, has one too!
Yes, my $75 dollar chocolate machine has a "MagSafe" connector.
So whatever patents Apple took out on theirs, are specific to Apple's design.
Now that I've been looking for them, I've found them elsewhere as well.
So Apple can do whatever they want to, often, it has no effect on anyone else.