I haven't yet seen anyone mention multi-touch. A 3-D interface would be exactly what is needed to fully realize multi-touch, bridging the gap between the computer and the real world for the user. Adding Stacks into Leopard was just a baby step in this direction, and was probably part of this on-going research. You can also see elements of a real-world interface on iPhone, where windows are "springy" and pop in and out, as they respond to your touch.
People who say it looks cluttered aren't really seeing the big picture. This is just conceptual research in motion.
This kind of 3D layout on a Multi-Touch Tablet Mac would be awesome. If you look at the images again and imagine swiping your finger to scroll through the stacks or dragging things around the screen, it makes a lot more sense. Things can be brought into "Focus" by making them appear as if in front of the 3D matrix (ala exposé always on in the background).
This Tablet Mac coud have a removable protective cover that doubles as a wireless keyboard with track-pad. A virtual keyboard (a la iPhone) could be docked in a side panel and pulled out when needed.
Now that would be an amazing machine.... and totally unique.
Don't forget that with proximity sensors in the screen (another patent pending) even just bringing a finger close to one of these stacks could excite them and make them "want" to be touched and played with in certain conditions. Who knows... they may even have a 3D color management system where you could use those theatre 3D glasses and have everything jumping out at you. but I digress.
This kind of 3D layout on a Multi-Touch Tablet Mac ... This Tablet Mac coud have a removable protective cover that doubles as a wireless keyboard with track-pad. ...
Ignoring the contradiction of having a removable trackpad on a device that is essentially a giant trackpad anyway ....
There is no way in hell that Apple will ever produce a tablet PC that has a physical keyboard. Ever.
Tablets with physical keyboards, (like "slider" phones) are just bad design from the get-go and Apple doesn't do "bad" design. A tablet with a physical keyboard is actually a laptop, and as one of the best laptop designers and makers in the country, if Apple thought such a thing was a good idea or had any use at all, they would have already made one.
"Convertable" laptop/tablets like those with the screens that flip and turn around, are the worst design abominations of all.
Ignoring the contradiction of having a removable trackpad on a device that is essentially a giant trackpad anyway ....
There is no way in hell that Apple will ever produce a tablet PC that has a physical keyboard. Ever.
Tablets with physical keyboards, (like "slider" phones) are just bad design from the get-go and Apple doesn't do "bad" design. A tablet with a physical keyboard is actually a laptop, and as one of the best laptop designers and makers in the country, if Apple thought such a thing was a good idea or had any use at all, they would have already made one.
"Convertable" laptop/tablets like those with the screens that flip and turn around, are the worst design abominations of all.
Never happen.
I hear you, that's why it would have to be a wireless keyboard completely removable from the tablet not permanently attached. No need to bulk up the Tablet... but the screen will need protection and there are times when a real keyboard would be better than typing on the screen... but for most everyday usage (surfing, photoshop, movie editing etc) the wireless keyboard would be totally unneccesary. I just can't see typing a 1000 word essay on a screen keyboard as something I'd want to do... not that I do that so often any more.
But I do admit, the keyboard would not be a necessity by any means as an integral part of the tablet. (maybe just an optional cover or even a keyboard in a soft cover.
Too bad the implementation seen in the patent diagrams would be utter garbage.
Stick with a 2D UI for 2D displays, Apple. When the time is right, a 3D interface for 3D displays will make sense. And hopefully, it won't be that pseudo-3D (read 2.5D) crap seen in the diagrams.
Unless displays are removed and replaced with a true color holographic desktop you'll never see a 3-D view.
I think some of this actually looks pretty promising..
To press a hot key and move the "camera" back a couple of inches, to do some sorting here, some changing clicking there.. and then back. Hm, there could be apps using these surfaces for easy to access settings, functions and material that would otherwise clutter your window with floating palettes. Kind of an app aware integrated dashboard is what I would use this for.
Sweet! This'll be just like the computer interface in Jurassic Park!
oh wait...
Seriously, though - if anyone can pare down interface ideas to what is elegant and useful, it's Apple. Like people have said, it's unlikely that these drawings represent OS 11 or whatever. Useful features will likely be plucked from this.
Sweet! This'll be just like the computer interface in Jurassic Park!
oh wait...
Seriously, though - if anyone can pare down interface ideas to what is elegant and useful, it's Apple. Like people have said, it's unlikely that these drawings represent OS 11 or whatever. Useful features will likely be plucked from this.
Applying for Patents and receiving them, before the hardware to represent this exists affords Apple to be able to produce this, without having to pay a license to someone else, in the future.
this really is not a good idea. it also very much reminds me of bumptop - which, i also think is a bad idea. 2d is excellent for file management. all the desktop is for is for file management. please, innovate there. don't give me 3d smoke and mirrors. just because you CAN do something, doesn't mean you should.
also, about the physical keyboard thing - i still don't know why i have never seen a 1 row qwerty keyboard implemented - it is simple and elegant and works - keystick - the diagram gives you a quick idea, but the fold out trick is really too much and not necessary - just imagine 10 keys in a row on a device, maybe in a little slide out from the bottom (versus the giant full keyboard slide outs of today - again, that's overkill, and actually slower to use then this 1-row of nice sized keys).
there just doesn't seem to be any real innovation these days. the iphone is nice. but, this 3d desktop is really going in the wrong direction. there is no re-thinking going on here. i hope they are filing a patent to keep this mess to themselves, and to make sure no one else can every inflict it upon the world.
Yes, it does, but they are showing you the desktop without any applications running. I suspect that a running app would take up the "front" surface as it does now, with just the dock showing at the bottom. Hit an Expose-like hotkey and your app windows glide to the back surface and you can see the 3D desktop. You then root around amongst the stacks and stuff on the bottom, hit the kotkey again and your apps glide back to the front surface. Applications windows might even slide off-screen entirely as Expose does now to show the 3D desktop (3Desktop ?) before sliding back when you're finished. And if they want to emulate my real desktop, you'll be able to create giant piles of stuff and never be able to find anything.
This looks like a good way of extending the capacity of the Dock while actually making the desktop surface useful. And looking at the Stacks and 3D Dock in those diagrams, I bet Apple already have this running in their labs.
no. I was complaining about the concept of a 3D desktop, not the drawings in this patent filing. I ask the question again: when have you ever been using a 2D desktop and thought "this would work so much better if it was 3D"?
Never. But I've often thought "This Dock is too restricted," or "This Desktop is useless." You don't think of solutions, you think of problems, then possible solutions.
Quote:
There are no problems with a 2D desktop that can be solved with a "virtual" 3D desktop on a 2D monitor.
Yes there are. It's extending the 1-dimensional Dock into a useful 2-dimensional surface. As someone whose Dock currently fills the screen I'd welcome a way of arranging things on a 2-D surface. And the Desktop doesn't cut it - you can't have Stacks on a desktop, or drop other types of control onto it.
Hey speak for yourself man... Like, just do some yoga and meditation and stuff, and you'll expand, like, your consciousness man... Humans do 2D for breakfast. We are multidimensional beings in many senses of the word... Yeahhhh
BTW I don't consider "stacking" as really 3D... because you are kind of stacking only 2D objects, whereas "stacking" in 3D implies stacking 3D objects, like stacking boxes, objects in "shelves", that kind of thing...
Quote:
Originally Posted by kim kap sol
Let me just say this:
Human beings aren't good with 3D. Most of us are uncomfortable manipulating things in 3D because our eyes take the 3D world and make a 2D representation of it.
Yes, folks, we're 2D beings. We live in a 3D world but that doesn't mean we're comfortable with it. We can't go through solid 3D objects. We can't see things behind solid opaque objects. 3D is somewhat of a curse to us because we can't see everything and we have no choice but to go around things to move in 3D space.
A being that lives in the 4th dimension would be able to see and move through everything within the 3D space and would feel totally comfortable manipulating things in 3D but would struggle with 4D.
Someone here said it first...the current OS X (all the way down to System 1) is already 3D in the sense that you can stack a window on top of another and you can stack an icon on top of another. The interface in the patent diagrams would just amplify the 3Dness.
But really...we all know that 3D isn't a human being's forté. If it was, we wouldn't need things like 'Exposé' and 'Clean Up'.
It's 2008. Why can't I just speak to my computer, for example, "Computer, how many emails do I have waiting?" and "Computer, how important is it for me to reply to them?"
*THAT* is what the next level of "Human Computer Interaction" should be.
Bring on the AI...!
"Computer, please pose as myself, and then lie through text messages to my girlfriend about where I will be tonight..."
"Yes Nvidia... Would you like the same hookers you went with last week?"
"Yes, but I want a bit more leather rather than vinyl this time..."
Quote:
Originally Posted by knightlie
Never. But I've often thought "This Dock is too restricted," or "This Desktop is useless." You don't think of solutions, you think of problems, then possible solutions.
Yes there are. It's extending the 1-dimensional Dock into a useful 2-dimensional surface. As someone whose Dock currently fills the screen I'd welcome a way of arranging things on a 2-D surface. And the Desktop doesn't cut it - you can't have Stacks on a desktop, or drop other types of control onto it.
It's 2008. Why can't I just speak to my computer, for example, "Computer, how many emails do I have waiting?" and "Computer, how important is it for me to reply to them?"
*THAT* is what the next level of "Human Computer Interaction" should be.
Bring on the AI...!
"Computer, please pose as myself, and then lie through text messages to my girlfriend about where I will be tonight..."
"Yes Nvidia... Would you like the same hookers you went with last week?"
"Yes, but I want a bit more leather rather than vinyl this time..."
It's 2008 and I'm still waiting for Nvidia to manage RayTracing in real-time to scale it's resolution dpi on the fly, with the ability to assign bit depth, color depth and more, on a per object basis, while keeping the GPU < 50C and being able to play any OpenGL accelerated Networked game at absurd framerates.
I have a better shot at dating a centerfold than I do for what I mentioned to happen.
I loved Sun Microsystem's 3D workspace, especially the way he flips over the browser and writes a note on the back! The "walls" were also neat, now that I saw it in action I believe this is exactly what Apple has in mind:
Comments
Let me just say this:...
You were just kidding, right? ... right ???
I haven't yet seen anyone mention multi-touch. A 3-D interface would be exactly what is needed to fully realize multi-touch, bridging the gap between the computer and the real world for the user. Adding Stacks into Leopard was just a baby step in this direction, and was probably part of this on-going research. You can also see elements of a real-world interface on iPhone, where windows are "springy" and pop in and out, as they respond to your touch.
People who say it looks cluttered aren't really seeing the big picture. This is just conceptual research in motion.
This kind of 3D layout on a Multi-Touch Tablet Mac would be awesome. If you look at the images again and imagine swiping your finger to scroll through the stacks or dragging things around the screen, it makes a lot more sense. Things can be brought into "Focus" by making them appear as if in front of the 3D matrix (ala exposé always on in the background).
This Tablet Mac coud have a removable protective cover that doubles as a wireless keyboard with track-pad. A virtual keyboard (a la iPhone) could be docked in a side panel and pulled out when needed.
Now that would be an amazing machine.... and totally unique.
Don't forget that with proximity sensors in the screen (another patent pending) even just bringing a finger close to one of these stacks could excite them and make them "want" to be touched and played with in certain conditions. Who knows... they may even have a 3D color management system where you could use those theatre 3D glasses and have everything jumping out at you. but I digress.
This kind of 3D layout on a Multi-Touch Tablet Mac ... This Tablet Mac coud have a removable protective cover that doubles as a wireless keyboard with track-pad. ...
Ignoring the contradiction of having a removable trackpad on a device that is essentially a giant trackpad anyway ....
There is no way in hell that Apple will ever produce a tablet PC that has a physical keyboard. Ever.
Tablets with physical keyboards, (like "slider" phones) are just bad design from the get-go and Apple doesn't do "bad" design. A tablet with a physical keyboard is actually a laptop, and as one of the best laptop designers and makers in the country, if Apple thought such a thing was a good idea or had any use at all, they would have already made one.
"Convertable" laptop/tablets like those with the screens that flip and turn around, are the worst design abominations of all.
Never happen.
Ignoring the contradiction of having a removable trackpad on a device that is essentially a giant trackpad anyway ....
There is no way in hell that Apple will ever produce a tablet PC that has a physical keyboard. Ever.
Tablets with physical keyboards, (like "slider" phones) are just bad design from the get-go and Apple doesn't do "bad" design. A tablet with a physical keyboard is actually a laptop, and as one of the best laptop designers and makers in the country, if Apple thought such a thing was a good idea or had any use at all, they would have already made one.
"Convertable" laptop/tablets like those with the screens that flip and turn around, are the worst design abominations of all.
Never happen.
I hear you, that's why it would have to be a wireless keyboard completely removable from the tablet not permanently attached. No need to bulk up the Tablet... but the screen will need protection and there are times when a real keyboard would be better than typing on the screen... but for most everyday usage (surfing, photoshop, movie editing etc) the wireless keyboard would be totally unneccesary. I just can't see typing a 1000 word essay on a screen keyboard as something I'd want to do... not that I do that so often any more.
But I do admit, the keyboard would not be a necessity by any means as an integral part of the tablet. (maybe just an optional cover or even a keyboard in a soft cover.
I love these ones where Apple "invents" stuff that was done 10-20 years ago.
Wow, a 3D desktop interface! Man walks on moon! Japan surrenders! Caveman invents wheel!
I love these ones where Apple "invents" stuff that was done 10-20 years ago.
Where did that come from??
Jimzip
Too bad the implementation seen in the patent diagrams would be utter garbage.
Stick with a 2D UI for 2D displays, Apple. When the time is right, a 3D interface for 3D displays will make sense. And hopefully, it won't be that pseudo-3D (read 2.5D) crap seen in the diagrams.
Unless displays are removed and replaced with a true color holographic desktop you'll never see a 3-D view.
To press a hot key and move the "camera" back a couple of inches, to do some sorting here, some changing clicking there.. and then back. Hm, there could be apps using these surfaces for easy to access settings, functions and material that would otherwise clutter your window with floating palettes. Kind of an app aware integrated dashboard is what I would use this for.
I think it looks promising, is what I think.
oh wait...
Seriously, though - if anyone can pare down interface ideas to what is elegant and useful, it's Apple. Like people have said, it's unlikely that these drawings represent OS 11 or whatever. Useful features will likely be plucked from this.
Sweet! This'll be just like the computer interface in Jurassic Park!
oh wait...
Seriously, though - if anyone can pare down interface ideas to what is elegant and useful, it's Apple. Like people have said, it's unlikely that these drawings represent OS 11 or whatever. Useful features will likely be plucked from this.
Applying for Patents and receiving them, before the hardware to represent this exists affords Apple to be able to produce this, without having to pay a license to someone else, in the future.
also, about the physical keyboard thing - i still don't know why i have never seen a 1 row qwerty keyboard implemented - it is simple and elegant and works - keystick - the diagram gives you a quick idea, but the fold out trick is really too much and not necessary - just imagine 10 keys in a row on a device, maybe in a little slide out from the bottom (versus the giant full keyboard slide outs of today - again, that's overkill, and actually slower to use then this 1-row of nice sized keys).
there just doesn't seem to be any real innovation these days. the iphone is nice. but, this 3d desktop is really going in the wrong direction. there is no re-thinking going on here. i hope they are filing a patent to keep this mess to themselves, and to make sure no one else can every inflict it upon the world.
Same here, it looks so cluttered and untidy
Yes, it does, but they are showing you the desktop without any applications running. I suspect that a running app would take up the "front" surface as it does now, with just the dock showing at the bottom. Hit an Expose-like hotkey and your app windows glide to the back surface and you can see the 3D desktop. You then root around amongst the stacks and stuff on the bottom, hit the kotkey again and your apps glide back to the front surface. Applications windows might even slide off-screen entirely as Expose does now to show the 3D desktop (3Desktop ?) before sliding back when you're finished. And if they want to emulate my real desktop, you'll be able to create giant piles of stuff and never be able to find anything.
This looks like a good way of extending the capacity of the Dock while actually making the desktop surface useful. And looking at the Stacks and 3D Dock in those diagrams, I bet Apple already have this running in their labs.
Never. But I've often thought "This Dock is too restricted," or "This Desktop is useless." You don't think of solutions, you think of problems, then possible solutions.
There are no problems with a 2D desktop that can be solved with a "virtual" 3D desktop on a 2D monitor.
Yes there are. It's extending the 1-dimensional Dock into a useful 2-dimensional surface. As someone whose Dock currently fills the screen I'd welcome a way of arranging things on a 2-D surface. And the Desktop doesn't cut it - you can't have Stacks on a desktop, or drop other types of control onto it.
That circle diagram reminded me of the Cardassian user interface on Deep Space Nine.
YES. DS9 fan here... W00t!
BTW I don't consider "stacking" as really 3D... because you are kind of stacking only 2D objects, whereas "stacking" in 3D implies stacking 3D objects, like stacking boxes, objects in "shelves", that kind of thing...
Let me just say this:
Human beings aren't good with 3D. Most of us are uncomfortable manipulating things in 3D because our eyes take the 3D world and make a 2D representation of it.
Yes, folks, we're 2D beings. We live in a 3D world but that doesn't mean we're comfortable with it. We can't go through solid 3D objects. We can't see things behind solid opaque objects. 3D is somewhat of a curse to us because we can't see everything and we have no choice but to go around things to move in 3D space.
A being that lives in the 4th dimension would be able to see and move through everything within the 3D space and would feel totally comfortable manipulating things in 3D but would struggle with 4D.
Someone here said it first...the current OS X (all the way down to System 1) is already 3D in the sense that you can stack a window on top of another and you can stack an icon on top of another. The interface in the patent diagrams would just amplify the 3Dness.
But really...we all know that 3D isn't a human being's forté. If it was, we wouldn't need things like 'Exposé' and 'Clean Up'.
*THAT* is what the next level of "Human Computer Interaction" should be.
Bring on the AI...!
"Computer, please pose as myself, and then lie through text messages to my girlfriend about where I will be tonight..."
"Yes Nvidia... Would you like the same hookers you went with last week?"
"Yes, but I want a bit more leather rather than vinyl this time..."
Never. But I've often thought "This Dock is too restricted," or "This Desktop is useless." You don't think of solutions, you think of problems, then possible solutions.
Yes there are. It's extending the 1-dimensional Dock into a useful 2-dimensional surface. As someone whose Dock currently fills the screen I'd welcome a way of arranging things on a 2-D surface. And the Desktop doesn't cut it - you can't have Stacks on a desktop, or drop other types of control onto it.
It's 2008. Why can't I just speak to my computer, for example, "Computer, how many emails do I have waiting?" and "Computer, how important is it for me to reply to them?"
*THAT* is what the next level of "Human Computer Interaction" should be.
Bring on the AI...!
"Computer, please pose as myself, and then lie through text messages to my girlfriend about where I will be tonight..."
"Yes Nvidia... Would you like the same hookers you went with last week?"
"Yes, but I want a bit more leather rather than vinyl this time..."
It's 2008 and I'm still waiting for Nvidia to manage RayTracing in real-time to scale it's resolution dpi on the fly, with the ability to assign bit depth, color depth and more, on a per object basis, while keeping the GPU < 50C and being able to play any OpenGL accelerated Networked game at absurd framerates.
I have a better shot at dating a centerfold than I do for what I mentioned to happen.
I love it!
I want to see it for Mac OS XI.
It sorta reminds me of Project Looking Glass.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcPIE...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10_QP...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SV_tuV3nH3E&NR=1
I loved Sun Microsystem's 3D workspace, especially the way he flips over the browser and writes a note on the back! The "walls" were also neat, now that I saw it in action I believe this is exactly what Apple has in mind:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SV_tuV3nH3E&NR=1
This one has to be the coolest though "Most Original OS"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_CSR...eature=related