EFi-X USA to sell pre-made PCs as do-it-yourself Mac clones

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 217
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post


    It's so nice to live in the Apple world and not have to worry about junk like that, well except for FileMaker. (shakes fist in the air and curses FileMaker)



    And iWork, surely?
  • Reply 42 of 217
    gmhutgmhut Posts: 242member
    . . . is to just go ahead and make the computer that clone makers are offering themselves. Apple doesn't make a computer that fits the target market that so many Mac users are clammering for so clone makers are trying to fill the obvious gaping void in the Apple product line. All Apple has to do is make a headless mini tower with similar specs to the iMac but without as many drive bay and optical bays as the Mac Pro that is user accessible for RAM and video card upgrades, sell it at the price point that EFi-X is shooting for (say, $1500-$1800) then any clone maker would be a moron to try and make a knock off?if Apple made the machine I described or similar, no one who wants a Mac would give a clone a second look because all of Apple's bases would be covered by a product line with no holes. Consumers would just get a genuine Apple that suits their needs and their budget.
  • Reply 43 of 217
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Archipellago View Post


    count me in and happy to be a dimwit. Apple sell ridiculously overpriced hardware and anything that can bring them down to a more sensible level is a good thing. Not as if nowadays that MAc hardware is even remotely better quality than an Dell or Tosh product.

    Macs do break and do so more now than ever.



    Okay, since you asked for it .. you are a dimwit.



    I mean look at what you *just* wrote above. You say two things (Apple hardware is overpriced and not any better than any other hardware). Both of these can be easily refuted with the facts, i.e. - you are "wrong." (look it up if you don't know that word)



    You also use extensive hyperbole, (get out the dictionary again) which is the mark of an amateur thinker. (Apple hardware is not just overpriced it's "ridiculously" overpriced, Apple hardware is not even "remotely" better quality.)



    Success! This is hard-core dimwit talk.
  • Reply 44 of 217
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dr_lha View Post


    And iWork, surely?



    Well I don't by any means use all Apple software so there could be others.



    I was mostly referring to product "activation" which is the real true evil in this category.



    Serial numbers are okay by me as I always buy legal software and if there is a serial number that you have to steal, then that's the way you know you're doing a "bad" thing. If people are going to steal stuff they need to be cognisant of the fact that they are doing so at the time IMO.



    FileMaker (can't say the name without shaking my fist) uses a ridiculous and very restrictive product activation scheme that would make Microsoft happy on it's upper level products.



    So you often find yourself in a situation wherein you can't even use the product that you paid hundreds or even thousands of dollars for. The last thing you need when your production software crashes is to have to wait an hour on the phone getting re-activated with FileMaker.
  • Reply 45 of 217
    sflocalsflocal Posts: 4,652member
    This is just a variation of the mod-chips used for the XBOX and Playstations. I don't know what happened with the Sony case but Microsoft won judgement against the makers of the mod chip and had them shut down with damages incurred.



    An argument (I'm sure will be made) is that they are not modifying Apple hardware like the XBOX mod chips required for the xbox systems or they are not modifying the OSX binaries in any way. Nonetheless, the sole intent (like the mod chips) is to circumvent the protection of the software in question whether OSX or XBOX/OS. That it still illegal in my belief.



    I have no problem with them selling the hardware. It actually sounds quite good. However, they should be dropped hard in regards to the EFI-X module. The sale of that module is in fact an obvious violation of Apple's IP protections. I can't believe they would fall on the argument of "Hey, I know this chip I made will break Apple's protection. But I just sell them. I don't control what the buyers will do with it."



    It's like the corner drug-dealer saying that he just sells crack to make a living. It's not his problem what his customers do with it. He is just providing a needed product to the market.



    That is a stupid mentality and I hope Apple makes an example of them as well as Psystar.



    The fact that apple provides stickers in the OSX retail CD box is not the same thing as installing OSX on an "Apple Branded" computer. Grow up kids.



    Don't complain if Apple introduces some kind of scheme in Snow Leopard to disable this once and for all. It's within their right to protect their business model whether you like it or not. If they don't want to make a mid-priced tower, that is their call and their loss if they choose that path.
  • Reply 46 of 217
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post


    Okay, since you asked for it .. you are a dimwit.



    I mean look at what you *just* wrote above. You say two things (Apple hardware is overpriced and not any better than any other hardware). Both of these can be easily refuted with the facts, i.e. - you are "wrong." (look it up if you don't know that word)



    You also use extensive hyperbole, (get out the dictionary again) which is the mark of an amateur thinker. (Apple hardware is not just overpriced it's "ridiculously" overpriced, Apple hardware is not even "remotely" better quality.)



    Success! This is hard-core dimwit talk.



    Can you be anymore of a complete idiot? This really doesn't even deserve a response, but just to help 'educate' the sorely uneducated that seem to be lurching about... here is a PC-FAN Boy's article about this very issue. I think its one of the better articles on that matter... and by they way... they all come to the same conclusion... interesting how that counters the MYTH.



    Tom's Hardware Article
  • Reply 47 of 217
    paxmanpaxman Posts: 4,603member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by donlphi View Post


    Where is the market for a DIY Mac? If I'm comfortable enough with a DIY MAC KIT, I think I would be comfortable enough to just purchase my own parts, install the necessary hardward and drivers to make it run.



    It sounds pretty pointless.



    It sounds very niche, too. We all complain about the little niggles that we get on the regular macs. Imagine the troubles on a dodgy clone! This is really for the uber geeks.I mean, look at the specs. Without Apple's blessing there will be so many problems, eternal workarounds, peripherals nightmares. It'll never catch on in a major way. I mean, what professional, or what company would waste their time on this? Way too risky.
  • Reply 48 of 217
    mactelmactel Posts: 1,275member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post


    I don't believe you because you mangled that metaphor about the wagons.





    That's odd since I wasn't using the "circle the wagons" metaphor in the first place. Rather the old western movie imagery of Indians circling a lone wagon and shooting it up with arrows. To "circle the wagons" would imply that Apple wasn't alone in their fight.



    Anywho, I'm all for clones and don't buy that Apple would be seriously hurt by them. Apple could solve this issue by releasing a non-Apple hardware version of Leopard in retail box form but disallow PC vendors from shipping the product with their hardware. No cloners, just converts. The have bootcamp so why not allow PC users to install OSX with bootcamp and run the two side-by-side? Oh, are they going to lose out on the hardware sales that they weren't going to get anyway since the PC was sub $600?
  • Reply 49 of 217
    markbmarkb Posts: 153member
    I am totally for Apple closing down the clones that are trying to leech the profits that Apple has built.........But did someone say 24 cores in OS X? Me Want NOW!!! I make pretty good use of 8 cores on my workstation. 24 would be super. I would save all kinds on time on my HPC account.[
  • Reply 50 of 217
    gqbgqb Posts: 1,934member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post


    and it will kill the happy hacking stuff that users want to do.



    Yeah... both of them.

    I for one remember the disaster that was Scully's OS licensing.

    If basement jockeys want to hack around, soup up some box with Linux and don't foul the water with the inevitable complaints about how OSX sucks so bad (because of hardware Babel.)
  • Reply 51 of 217
    How many of you wanna bet they jump from Intel in the next year or so and make their own chips? Seems like the sure way to close the open door in Apple's Eco System. They have the cash to do it and now with Semi they have some pretty slick engineers on board. Once they make their own chips, it's all over for these pirates.



    Side note: What the hell is wrong with people? You know, a lot of us are partly responsible for this. If you can't afford a Mac system then make some damn money or get off the boat. Vote with your dollar. If it's too expensive, don't buy it. Guess what, if you don't buy it, they can't sell it. I have owned my own design business for around 7 years and the first 5 of those I did everything on a PowerBook. Yes, one machine. Yes, I have pirated software and downloaded cracks, but really only to be sure it was what would work for me. Once I began making money on apps, I was bloody man enough to put some money down on their counters and buy the apps. My business has grown from scratching around to making money and only last year I was finally able to JUSTIFY the cost of a Mac Pro 8 core tower and a 30 inch monitor. Keyword being JUSTIFY. Yes they are bloody expensive. Apple has a wide profit margin on all their products but I am willing to bet MY DOLLARS THAT I EARNED that a lot of that money gets saved and poured into R&D and that is why they can carve up the market place with wonderful ground breaking products.



    This is NOT a bash, but a challenge to all who claim to generally appreciate Apple on some level. Lets get behind them again like we used to. Why are we so upset they are making a profit? They are making a killing out there and gaining market share. Isn't that what we all wanted when Apple was in it's driest hour? Does Apple always satisfy everything each of us want? No, but they are striving pretty damn hard to be the best and all I hear every day, all day is b#tching and moaning.



    If you are going to respond, I only ask that you truly think about where us Apple lovers all used to be. In some dark corner of the market getting laughed at while we waved the flag for a better company, with better ideals. Apple people used to behave like a team, now it feels like day-care in here. Come on, lets route for them again and push them further into MSFT's camp. This is Boot Camp after all :-)



    Respect!
  • Reply 52 of 217
    Could it be that competitors have grouped together to tie up Apple's resources and throw them off balance? A conspiracy and collusion to confuse customers? Why all of a sudden do all these clone makers pop up at once? Apple is doing well, competitors aren't doing as well ... hmm? I hope Apple finds the "John Does" they are looking for and embarrasses the hell out of them.
  • Reply 53 of 217
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by CREB View Post


    I purchase a Mac because of its design, quality, and other issues they this device, and hardware cannot provide. I do not see myself changing any time soon.



    I agree, and for that reason, I think these hacks will only be bit players in the OSX world and doubt it will ever really affect Apples bottom line. A lot to do about nothing....
  • Reply 54 of 217
    adjeiadjei Posts: 738member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Archipellago View Post


    count me in and happy to be a dimwit. Apple sell ridiculously overpriced hardware and anything that can bring them down to a more sensible level is a good thing. Not as if nowadays that MAc hardware is even remotely better quality than an Dell or Tosh product.

    Macs do break and do so more now than ever.



    At least Apple isn't charging us to get support that is based in America rather India like Dell is doing.
  • Reply 55 of 217
    dr_lhadr_lha Posts: 236member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MacTel View Post


    Anywho, I'm all for clones and don't buy that Apple would be seriously hurt by them. Apple could solve this issue by releasing a non-Apple hardware version of Leopard in retail box form but disallow PC vendors from shipping the product with their hardware. No cloners, just converts. The have bootcamp so why not allow PC users to install OSX with bootcamp and run the two side-by-side? Oh, are they going to lose out on the hardware sales that they weren't going to get anyway since the PC was sub $600?



    Not going to happen, because:



    #1 OSX on anything would be a support nightmare.

    #2 Despite what you think, it would cut into sales. I currently buy Macs, but if they released a OSX on anything box, I most certainly would build my next Mac, and that is lost profit at Apple.
  • Reply 56 of 217
    Apple doesn't need a new processor to stop this. Just a new Apple branded chipset. Give it a compatibility interface for legacy OS's....but a different register interface that only OS X knows. No one in their right mind is going to engineer a multi-million dollar chip to break Apple's DRM and slap it on motherboards. Intel won't. NVidia won't. ATI won't. VIA won't. They'd lose their asses. Heck, one of them (NVidia or Intel) would likely customize a version of one of their chipsets with the nessecary changes.



    Then Apple just has to drop support going forward for any new off the shelf chipsets. In 2 years, you wouldn't be able to find a motherboard compatible with OS X.



    That would force people to either patch OS X or steal Apple motherboards



    (System chipsets, requiring a complete ASIC design, testing, etc cost millions to develop, hackers don't have the resources to replace it...and a simple hack like a mod chip wouldn't work, those run in the low MHz range not GHz over hundreds of pins)
  • Reply 57 of 217
    gqbgqb Posts: 1,934member
    Apple is not just a product... its a brand, and protection of brands is established trade law.

    The Apple brand is all about the integration of the software and hardware.

    The junk that will result from this will diminish the brand, and Apple is perfectly within its rights to prevent that.



    That's what this is about.
  • Reply 58 of 217
    rickagrickag Posts: 1,626member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post


    I think this shows the underlying desire by many to make money off Apples success ...



    And why do you think these companies think they can make money off Apple's success? Root cause analysis = they think that(and I quote bandalay),"It shows an underlying desire by a larger and larger segment of the population to have the Apple experience without paying for Apple hardware. The halo works."



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by godrifle View Post


    ...a midrange tower and I *swear* I won't buy a competitor's hardware. I *like* your hardware. I just want something I can upgrade that doesn't cost a bazillion dollars.



    Unfortunately Apple only wants your business if you settle for what they know is best for you.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bowser View Post


    Doesn't mean they won't start doing with their next hardware revision... I'll bet they do in fact. It wouldn't be that hard to do; all they need is a chip that has hardware info hardcoded on it with serial number, model, etc. Then they add a simple checking routine into the OS X installer; no chip on the MB, no installation occurs.



    I agree with other posters here though... this is nothing more than carpet baggers trying to leech off of Apple's success.



    So, they tell all the previous buyers of Apple hardware, sorry but you can not upgrade to our new Mac OS because we're tired of all the people that want our software but not our hardware. I doubt that will go over well at all. Between the lack of an xMac, the elimination of firewire on the MacBook and glossy screens there already are a bunch of disgruntled users.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hombrephaty View Post


    I (and many others) have been clamoring for a lower-cost Mac tower for... oh... only 15 years now.



    C'mon, Steve. Don't blow your chance at market share (for the hundredth time)



    It will never happen, it is just totally against Apple's vision of a consumer computing appliance world.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Adjei View Post


    So I guess this low cost tower is what is supposed to help Apple shoot up their marketshare and overtake Microsoft?



    No one but you have said this. The rest of the posts have been restricted to what people need or believe they need in a computer.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by stokessd View Post


    I think they already have. Check out the new displayport adapter with it's DRM. What is to stop apple from using that chip as the key to the kingdom? No apple DRM chip, no play. The only wrench in those works, is all the legacy computers that they still support. But that means in 3 years, this problem goes away when support for older models rolls off.





    Sheldon



    According to this so much for any arguments that Apple computers have a longer useful service life.



    --------



    Apple by their recent actions have put themselves in a very crappy situation. Yes, there is a desire for an xMac, firewire and matte screens. If Apple implements draconian restrictions of upgrading to newer Mac OSes they will piss off millions of consumers.



    Yes they are capturing market share and mind share, but it is never good to anger your userbase, ultimately pissing off your stock holders. Trouble is, I doubt Apple cares, it is their culture to know what is best for consumers and quite often they are absolutely correct.



    Will I ever build or buy a hackintosh, no. I also believe there aren't a whole heck of a lot of consumers that would. And the number of consumers that would build or buy a hackintosh wouldn't affect Apple's bottom line one bit. What could affect their bottom line is the uproar over extrodinary measures to protect their walled garden.
  • Reply 59 of 217
    gqbgqb Posts: 1,934member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dr_lha View Post


    Not going to happen, because:



    #1 OSX on anything would be a support nightmare.

    #2 Despite what you think, it would cut into sales. I currently buy Macs, but if they released a OSX on anything box, I most certainly would build my next Mac, and that is lost profit at Apple.



    Not to put too fine a point on it, but your #1 point completely contradicts your #2 point. Why would you buy a support nightmare?

    But your #1 and first sentence of #2 are correct.
  • Reply 60 of 217
    foo2foo2 Posts: 1,077member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


    More importantly, the systems will potentially avoid the legal pitfalls that have spurred an exchange of lawsuits and countersuits between Apple and Psystar. EFi-X USA will mention Mac OS X as one of the operating systems supported by the system, but won't install the software itself. "We want to be clear about that," the spokesman says. The company also won't sell the EFi-X dongle pre-installed in the Millennium; it must be purchased as a separate product.



    Ha-ha-ha-ha... NO!



    The dongle serves no purpose but to facilitate copyright infringement. EFi-X USA is therefore aiding and abetting in the crime of copyright infringement. I am not a lawyer, but perhaps by only aiding and abetting in the crime, EFi-X avoids the triple damages that may be awarded by a court. Or perhaps they don't.



    Who will fix EFi-X after Apple is done with them?
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