Are There Any Redeaming Qualities for Windows?

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  • Reply 81 of 110
    taurontauron Posts: 911member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post


    Yeah, well... I do remember when DVD was expensive technology, movies were just a handful (compared to VHS) and - how can read-only media replace good old versatile VHS when people want to record shows they have missed live..?



    The way I see it, BR is repeating exact DVD steps. I personally have no doubts it will be dominant media in a few years. I have nothing BR in my house yet (matter of fact my wife's Toshiba notebook has HD-DVD... so funny), so I'm not just trying to justify my purchase - much as I am concerned, BR will become interesting when I manage to bend it to suit my needs. I'm collecting DVDs but, since I'm carrying notebook with me on my travels, I'll spare an afternoon before travel to rip and convert handful of then to DivX and carry them with me. I don't want to carry physical DVDs and risk damaging or loosing them. So my criteria for adopting BR is - cheap enough BR reader and technology (software?) that will let me backup and convert my BR movies.



    But no matter what some of us think, it will get on top, simply because so much money and big names are lined behind it, and they will force it upon us one way or another.



    Think again.
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  • Reply 82 of 110
    taurontauron Posts: 911member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post


    No idea where that is coming from. Office for Mac, maybe? Comes to Windows Office... I'm working for company providing - among the other things - general IT support to it's customers, some of them being big domains (for New Zealand standards). For last two years - much as I'm working there - I can't recall any logged support ticket related to MS Office problem(s).



    True lots of people were bi*ching with interface changes Office 2007 introduced, but that is common thing for Enterprise segment anyway - employees are usually lacking enthusiasm to learn new things, they just want to get done with the job. From my personal point of view, there's nothing wrong with 2007 interface - in fact I like it a lot - but one does have to get into philosophy different from what Office was offering previous 10+ years. New users don't have such problems, which makes sense.



    If your word processing, spreadsheet and presentation requirements are so basic, I understand you can prefer simple and colourful. It still does not make it better in general.It's like saying Picasa, GIMP and Photo.NET are better image editing programs because they are much cheaper (in fact free), faster, simpler, have cute colourful GUI and much less features than Photoshop.



    It is typical of IT people to encourage people to use cumbersome, unstable and buggy software to justify their jobs and existence. In my experience, most IT jobs would not exist if managers had the brains to use, say, iworks instead of office; or leopard instead of winblows.



    From your retoric is seems you fit this general trend.
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  • Reply 83 of 110
    taurontauron Posts: 911member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BenRoethig View Post


    If you're in that 20% you at least have that option (which is more than I can say for the computer choices on the platform). iWork may be the better choice, but 90% of the Mac users I know can't read a pages, numbers, or keynote file let alone the rest of the world. If you're going to be in an office or school environment seamless integration with office is key. You accidentally send the wrong file time, you could be out of job. As of iWork '08 integration isn't so seamless.



    So your argument is that office is better because most people use it? If that were true there would be no argument.



    Try again.
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  • Reply 84 of 110
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post


    BR will become interesting when I manage to bend it to suit my needs. I'm collecting DVDs but, since I'm carrying notebook with me on my travels, I'll spare an afternoon before travel to rip and convert handful of then to DivX and carry them with me. I don't want to carry physical DVDs and risk damaging or loosing them. So my criteria for adopting BR is - cheap enough BR reader and technology (software?) that will let me backup and convert my BR movies.



    You still risk damaging and losing those blu-rays... why not just keep them on a portable hard drive? I just got a 320 gig for $95 and it's just a little bigger than my iPhone. That will take up a lot less space and hold more than your blu-rays.
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  • Reply 85 of 110
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tauron View Post


    So your argument is that office is better because most people use it? If that were true there would be no argument.



    Try again.



    No, I'm arguing that its the standard, so it doesn't matter if its better or not. Try sending others in the office pages documents, numbers spreadsheets, or keynote presentations and see how long you have a job. Mac OS X seamlessly integrates into our windows networks. iWork does not seamlessly integrate into MS Office environment.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tauron View Post


    It is typical of IT people to encourage people to use cumbersome, unstable and buggy software to justify their jobs and existence. In my experience, most IT jobs would not exist if managers had the brains to use, say, iworks instead of office; or leopard instead of winblows.



    From your retoric is seems you fit this general trend.



    You have no idea the money and effort that would require.



    For software you have to retrain your staff in both the use of Mac OS X and iWork. For iWork since Apple didn't bother to put the export dialog in the save box, you have to teach them to manually convert it to a pdf or word document for any document that goes outside the company. 95% of your customers and suppliers will not be able to read iWork document. Any proprietary software will need a Mac version.



    On the hardware side you have to deal with Apple's low end consumer oriented one size fits all approach. With the lack of lower end business models, they'll be spend close double what they did on an iMac. Minis are far too easy to steal and the purchase of cinema displays and keyboard/ mice sets would put the price well above the $1199 iMac. For the server side, the one side fits all really fits hard. There are no blades, no entry level servers, no 2U or 3U servers, just the 1U xserve.



    The smaller the company, the easier it is to do. For a major company you're looking at costs in the millions or even billions to switch. Apple as it stands isn't set up for the business market.
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  • Reply 86 of 110
    rbrrbr Posts: 631member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BenRoethig View Post


    No, I'm arguing that its the standard, so it doesn't matter if its better or not. Try sending others in the office pages documents, numbers spreadsheets, or keynote presentations and see how long you have a job. Mac OS X seamlessly integrates into our windows networks. iWork does not seamlessly integrate into MS Office environment.







    You have no idea the money and effort that would require.



    For software you have to retrain your staff in both the use of Mac OS X and iWork. For iWork since Apple didn't bother to put the export dialog in the save box, you have to teach them to manually convert it to a pdf or word document for any document that goes outside the company. 95% of your customers and suppliers will not be able to read iWork document. Any proprietary software will need a Mac version.



    On the hardware side you have to deal with Apple's low end consumer oriented one size fits all approach. With the lack of lower end business models, they'll be spend close double what they did on an iMac. Minis are far too easy to steal and the purchase of cinema displays and keyboard/ mice sets would put the price well above the $1199 iMac. For the server side, the one side fits all really fits hard. There are no blades, no entry level servers, no 2U or 3U servers, just the 1U xserve.



    The smaller the company, the easier it is to do. For a major company you're looking at costs in the millions or even billions to switch. Apple as it stands isn't set up for the business market.



    Bingo!



    I think the business community would welcome Apple (OS X) with open arms if there were more options to suit their needs. Unfortunately, there never was a SUN/Apple merger which would have allowed an essentially common OS with SUN taking on the business side of the house and Apple continuing to play at being a consumer company.
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  • Reply 87 of 110
    nikon133nikon133 Posts: 2,600member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tauron View Post


    Think again.



    I did. Came to same conclusion.



    But hey. This argument is getting pointless. Hopefully some of us will remember to return to this topic in a few years.
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  • Reply 88 of 110
    nikon133nikon133 Posts: 2,600member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tauron View Post


    It is typical of IT people to encourage people to use cumbersome, unstable and buggy software to justify their jobs and existence. In my experience, most IT jobs would not exist if managers had the brains to use, say, iworks instead of office; or leopard instead of winblows.



    From your retoric is seems you fit this general trend.



    I see it clear now. You definitely have no idea what you are talking about, don't you?



    Google around for iWorks and Office compares. Might help.
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  • Reply 89 of 110
    nikon133nikon133 Posts: 2,600member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by foodmetaphors View Post


    You still risk damaging and losing those blu-rays... why not just keep them on a portable hard drive? I just got a 320 gig for $95 and it's just a little bigger than my iPhone. That will take up a lot less space and hold more than your blu-rays.



    Well, I work in IT for the last 20 years. Unfortunately hard drives die too. Previous company I was working for was actually building PCs and giving 3 years warranty for them... we were doing only Seagate drives, and from our experience, up to 5% of hard drives would develop problem (or completely die) within 3 years. I've spent 5 years with them, so you can take that info with a grain of salt, but still...



    I have about 3TB on various internal and external HDD in my home. Music is on mirrored 160GB RAID, all family photos are kept on one internal and one external HDD. Nothing else has redundancy. I was lucky so far, haven't got a single HDD died on me - one can improve chances a bit by providing proper cooling and decent power supplies for PC desktops - but still, some HDDs will go to heaven before their time. And will take some of your data with them



    Plus, for me - there's something extra in collecting DVD (or BR in a few years) movies compared to downloaded/ripped movies. Box, paperworks... call me old-fashioned.
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  • Reply 90 of 110
    nikon133nikon133 Posts: 2,600member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BenRoethig View Post


    No, I'm arguing that its the standard, so it doesn't matter if its better or not. Try sending others in the office pages documents, numbers spreadsheets, or keynote presentations and see how long you have a job. Mac OS X seamlessly integrates into our windows networks. iWork does not seamlessly integrate into MS Office environment.







    You have no idea the money and effort that would require.



    For software you have to retrain your staff in both the use of Mac OS X and iWork. For iWork since Apple didn't bother to put the export dialog in the save box, you have to teach them to manually convert it to a pdf or word document for any document that goes outside the company. 95% of your customers and suppliers will not be able to read iWork document. Any proprietary software will need a Mac version.



    On the hardware side you have to deal with Apple's low end consumer oriented one size fits all approach. With the lack of lower end business models, they'll be spend close double what they did on an iMac. Minis are far too easy to steal and the purchase of cinema displays and keyboard/ mice sets would put the price well above the $1199 iMac. For the server side, the one side fits all really fits hard. There are no blades, no entry level servers, no 2U or 3U servers, just the 1U xserve.



    The smaller the company, the easier it is to do. For a major company you're looking at costs in the millions or even billions to switch. Apple as it stands isn't set up for the business market.



    All true. Plus, another major thing that you missed to mention - corporate environments do require some of the features Office has and iWork is missing. Could business do without them? Maybe. Heck, companies were using typewriters with zero features before word processors emerged. But why would they? Office 2003 and (much as it seems so far) 2007 for Windows are among the best - if not the best - software Microsoft ever did. They are extremely stable and will work perfectly on pretty much any hardware that will run XP.
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  • Reply 91 of 110
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BenRoethig View Post


    No, I'm arguing that its the standard, so it doesn't matter if its better or not. Try sending others in the office pages documents, numbers spreadsheets, or keynote presentations and see how long you have a job. Mac OS X seamlessly integrates into our windows networks. iWork does not seamlessly integrate into MS Office environment.







    You have no idea the money and effort that would require.



    For software you have to retrain your staff in both the use of Mac OS X and iWork. For iWork since Apple didn't bother to put the export dialog in the save box, you have to teach them to manually convert it to a pdf or word document for any document that goes outside the company. 95% of your customers and suppliers will not be able to read iWork document. Any proprietary software will need a Mac version.



    On the hardware side you have to deal with Apple's low end consumer oriented one size fits all approach. With the lack of lower end business models, they'll be spend close double what they did on an iMac. Minis are far too easy to steal and the purchase of cinema displays and keyboard/ mice sets would put the price well above the $1199 iMac. For the server side, the one side fits all really fits hard. There are no blades, no entry level servers, no 2U or 3U servers, just the 1U xserve.



    The smaller the company, the easier it is to do. For a major company you're looking at costs in the millions or even billions to switch. Apple as it stands isn't set up for the business market.



    It took me a grand total of a few hours to get completely familiar with Pages the first time I ever launched it. None of those software need any training, especially if you are talking about iworks, which is very intuitive. Perhaps your company needs to hire non mentally retarded people instead of spending millions in IT.
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  • Reply 92 of 110
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tauron View Post


    It took me a grand total of a few hours to get completely familiar with Pages the first time I ever launched it. None of those software need any training, especially if you are talking about iworks, which is very intuitive. Perhaps your company needs to hire non mentally retarded people instead of spending millions in IT.



    First, mods please tell me he at least gets a warning for that last remark. Having a close friend whos daughter is severely disabled in that manner I am not the least bit amused.



    Second, Tauron that's not how the real world works. A couple of hours fooling around with things on your own is lost productivity and most don't catch on that fast. I would also agree with out for the most part except for saving files in alternate formats in which its not very intuitive and requires an unneeded extra step.
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  • Reply 93 of 110
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tauron View Post


    Perhaps your company needs to hire non mentally retarded people instead of spending millions in IT.





    I agree with Ben on this last comment. I see the term 'retarded' used often in this and other forums as an insult. It's thoughtless and unnecessary. You have a problem with people with learning disabilities? Substitute 'fewer black' or 'fewer women' for the phrase 'non-mentally retarded' in your statement to see how you might be coming across as offensive.
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  • Reply 94 of 110
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post


    Well, I work in IT for the last 20 years. Unfortunately hard drives die too. Previous company I was working for was actually building PCs and giving 3 years warranty for them... we were doing only Seagate drives, and from our experience, up to 5% of hard drives would develop problem (or completely die) within 3 years. I've spent 5 years with them, so you can take that info with a grain of salt, but still...



    I have about 3TB on various internal and external HDD in my home. Music is on mirrored 160GB RAID, all family photos are kept on one internal and one external HDD. Nothing else has redundancy. I was lucky so far, haven't got a single HDD died on me - one can improve chances a bit by providing proper cooling and decent power supplies for PC desktops - but still, some HDDs will go to heaven before their time. And will take some of your data with them



    Plus, for me - there's something extra in collecting DVD (or BR in a few years) movies compared to downloaded/ripped movies. Box, paperworks... call me old-fashioned.



    Well they may not last forever, but as long as you keep them on multiple drives and have all your drives under warranty, it'll be pretty hard to lose your data.. plus either way you'll still have the original source in case something does happen since you're ripping from DVD.
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  • Reply 95 of 110
    rbrrbr Posts: 631member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by foodmetaphors View Post


    Well they may not last forever, but as long as you keep them on multiple drives and have all your drives under warranty, it'll be pretty hard to lose your data.. plus either way you'll still have the original source in case something does happen since you're ripping from DVD.



    If data is truly irreplaceable, multiple backups on multiple media is about as good as you can do, I suppose. DVDs/CDs are a great unknown. No one really knows how long they will last. l have experienced "laser rot" on commercial software DVDs several times. Had they been data discs, I suppose most of the data would have been recoverable, but you never know. Various "authorities" have expressed great skepticism about the long term archival capabilities of burnable DVDs.



    I suppose someone will write a nice article telling us all about it in 10 or 20 years.
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  • Reply 96 of 110
    taurontauron Posts: 911member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BenRoethig View Post


    First, mods please tell me he at least gets a warning for that last remark. Having a close friend whos daughter is severely disabled in that manner I am not the least bit amused.



    Second, Tauron that's not how the real world works. A couple of hours fooling around with things on your own is lost productivity and most don't catch on that fast. I would also agree with out for the most part except for saving files in alternate formats in which its not very intuitive and requires an unneeded extra step.



    It wasn't my intention to insult mentally retarded people. It is not their fault they were born that way. It is an suggestion to the people who hire mentally retarded people and then complain they have to spend money to teach them how to use ridiculously simple and intuitive software.
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  • Reply 97 of 110
    4metta4metta Posts: 365member
    Gaming.





    Windows blows any Leopard away for gaming. Even the most modest pc games better than a high end mac.





    But that's the ONLY redeeming quality about Windows for me.
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  • Reply 98 of 110
    taurontauron Posts: 911member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by 4metta View Post


    Gaming.





    Windows blows any Leopard away for gaming. Even the most modest pc games better than a high end mac.





    But that's the ONLY redeeming quality about Windows for me.



    Yep, after 3 pages of posts it seems that gaming is the only real and significant advantage windows has.



    But even that it seems is more due to third party support towards directx and windows, and not any technological merits of windows os.



    That said, it seems the iphone and ipod is poised to become the most popular portable gaming consoles.
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  • Reply 99 of 110
    rbrrbr Posts: 631member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tauron View Post


    Yep, after 3 pages of posts it seems that gaming is the only real and significant advantage windows has.



    But even that it seems is more due to third party support towards directx and windows, and not any technological merits of windows os.



    That said, it seems the iphone and ipod is poised to become the most popular portable gaming consoles.



    "



    Tauron,



    Come on! You can play a few games on the iPhone, but a "portable gaming console"?



    I am not into portable gaming, but the iPhone seems an unlikely candidate for a "portable gaming console". The ones I see people using are configured for what they do and the iPhone is not.



    Can you have fun on it? I guess so, but I do not think that makes it a "console". I doubt anyone would buy an iPhone specifically for the purpose of playing games.
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  • Reply 100 of 110
    I'll chip in here. Right now the main redeeming qualities for Windows are the availability of supercheap hiptops/netbooks/UMPCs/Nanobooks that run the full OS, and compatibility with poorly designed corporate software and websites.



    I'm praying for a MacOS netbook in the coming year. And the death of ActiveX in the corporate environment.
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