Steve Jobs said "We don't know how to make a $500 computer that's not a piece of junk." Yet the original Mac Mini cost $499 when it was introduced. Did Steve admit that the Mac Mini is a piece of junk?
I think SJ didn't choose the right wording, he was referring to PC laptops and complete PC systems which run under $500.
Sounds like they're doing it right. Still I have a couple of concerns. Will the entry level Mini use the GM965 chipset used in the white Macbook or Intel's GM45. I do not believe that GM965 had displayport support. GM45 does. Also, will they include VGA/DVI adapters in box? Users finding out that their new computer requires buying an adapter to use anything but Apple's expensive cinemas might not be the best way to begin a relationship with a user.
a. Corporate for which cheap mac minis are perfect for desktop computers or as part of server farms.
b. Consumer looking for low entry point into Mac ecosystem.
Possible simple solution for both markets:
1. Create a Terminal Services type of setup option on MAC servers that allow for multiple remote sessions by users. Corporations will need to purchase a license for each remote user.
2. Apple will allow provide this service for consumers on a subscription basis - AppleNet. Maybe $24.99-29.99 monthly for network access to 50gb of storage space, office software, and more..
3. Apple will allow users to use Apple TVs to connect to the AppleNet service or corporate Mac servers.
4. Rename the Apple TV device to remove the word "TV". Install Safari and iTunes on these devices. Offer a lower-priced version for $149.99.
5. Allow national ISPs to resell the device with internet access. ex. $40 per month from AT&T for DSL service and Apple Net access.
For many consumers, this will be very appealing
$149.99 for the device that will allow internet and itunes access.
$24.99 - $29.99 monthly subscription to a fully functional network desktop and 50gb of storage.
a. Corporate for which cheap mac minis are perfect for desktop computers or as part of server farms.
b. Consumer looking for low entry point into Mac ecosystem.
Possible simple solution for both markets:
1. Create a Terminal Services type of setup option on MAC servers that allow for multiple remote sessions by users. Corporations will need to purchase a license for each remote user.
2. Apple will allow provide this service for consumers on a subscription basis - AppleNet. Maybe $24.99-29.99 monthly for network access to 50gb of storage space, office software, and more..
I like #1. It could be the next logical step from screen sharing, by allowing multiple GUI logins at the same time (I belive currently you can only have simultaneous terminal logins, but not GUI logins on the same machine). I'm not sure how efficient Apple's screen sharing is, but a lot of techs at my company carry around laptops only to use Remote Desktop back to their desktop machines. If Apple could allow multiple logins on a single machine, or perhaps virtualization of the client machines on the server, you could put a bare bones client on the users desk. It would also solve the big problem we have of users never backing up the content on their individual computers. IT could simply backup the server.
As for #2, oh please no!! Apple has proven with MobileMe that they are not skilled at managing an online service! How about they get MM working properly (they are getting there), before piling more on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PXT
Time Capsule, Mac Mini, Apple TV - all turned into a single set of white snap-on layers.
Want to turn your Apple TV into a Mini? Snap-on the Super-Drive layer.
Time Capsule? Snap-on the hard drive layer.
DVR, Blu-Bag-of-Hurt, ... just keep on snappin'
So basically, you are wanting a mini without an optical drive? Because you can already do all of the rest of that (except the Bag-of-Hurt). This is my exact set-up, minus blu-ray and DVR (could use El gato, if I wanted). A Mac mini, NewerTech miniStack, and Airport Extreme all stacked nicely behind my HDTV. I get better network drive performance with the mini hosting the drives than you'll get with Time Capsule, and the advantage of 3 additional FW drives daisy-chained to the miniStack for basically unlimited storage (which is why Apple needs to keep the FW, I'd freak trying to duplicate that on USB)!
As for the bag-of-hurt blu-ray, other than licensing, the other problem you'll have is audio. DisplayPort doesn't support audio, and as I understand it, the high-resolution audio on blu-ray can't be output via the optical connections (not enough bandwidth?). You'd still be able to have the 5.1 Dolby Digital (which I think is required on blu-ray discs?), but you'll never get the newer audio formats. Still, that would be sufficient for me.
So, take today's mini, add the NVIDIA chipset, larger HD, DisplayPort, start renting HD movies via Macs (not just via AppleTV), keep the FW (800?), and while they are at it finally upgrade the wi-fi to N already!
I would be extremely surprised if Firewire was included on the new Mini. It's been dropped from the MacBook and SJ defended its omission in an email to a user. The port is on its way out, excepting perhaps at the high end (which is *definitely* not where the mini is positioned).
As to those who are hoping for an expansion slot, I'll have some of what you're smoking.
I wouldn't mind if Firewire went bye bye if they replaced it with 2 USB ports. It should have a mini Display port, 5 to 6 USB ports, Ethernet, and audio in/out.
I still would prefer a cube format like the Shuttle (instead of integrated power supply have an external one).
Steve Jobs said "We don't know how to make a $500 computer that's not a piece of junk." Yet the original Mac Mini cost $499 when it was introduced. Did Steve admit that the Mac Mini is a piece of junk?
Nah....he just forgot to append " at the margins we like to seel at" to the end of that sentence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PXT
Time Capsule, Mac Mini, Apple TV - all turned into a single set of white snap-on layers.
Want to turn your Apple TV into a Mini? Snap-on the Super-Drive layer.
Time Capsule? Snap-on the hard drive layer.
DVR, Blu-Bag-of-Hurt, ... just keep on snappin'
Exactly though the modular approach is an anethema to Apple. The A-I-O benefits are nice for computing novice and those that want simplicity. Enthusiasts want more control. Dual Monitors, and systems configured the way they want. Apple has not provided this yet unless you want a huge behemoth Mac Pro (I do) which is $$$$$.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hypercommunist
I would be extremely surprised if Firewire was included on the new Mini. It's been dropped from the MacBook and SJ defended its omission in an email to a user. The port is on its way out, excepting perhaps at the high end (which is *definitely* not where the mini is positioned).
As to those who are hoping for an expansion slot, I'll have some of what you're smoking.
Jobs is a fcking moron. 17k signatures on a petition. FW complaint threads on various message boards hitting 2 and 3k posts. Jobs' is clearly wrong. Apple hardware has shown very little innovation which is why Psystar and other companies are trying to eat Apple's lunch.
It makes totally sense to update the MacMini. With the economy struggling all over the world, folks are looking for good deals and ways to get cheaper goods. That's where the MacMini fits so well.
I hope the next update will be substantial and the form factor can be smaller and the price points will stay the same or maybe a bit lower.
My guess is that they will target the MM as a secondary mac and/or multimedia hub. If I were at apple, I would make sure that :
- the MM doesn't cannibalize the desktop sales by removing firewire and equipping it with a slower & smaller disk. As such, any video enthousiast will be compelled to go for an iMac as primary machine
- the MM doesn't cannibalize the macbook sales by removing the optical drive
- the MM doesn't cannibalize the appleTV by limiting the video-out options. Just the mini-displayport, no composite video
-if they can keep the price low enough, a drive-less MM is perfect as hub or secondary computer. Again, you'll need an iMac to be properly equipped
Im mostly hoping for an affordable MM (less than 500€*would be awesome, but it isn't going to happen. 599 will be the cheapest I think) with the new mini-displayport, more RAM capacity and a chipset thet supports the upcoming snow-leopard/openCL acceleration. The rest of the features (firewire, processor speed, form actor) are totally irrelevant for me. Anyone who cares about these should get an iMac or macBook
DisplayPort, handling more RAM, and a slight speed bump are obvious.
If Apple were smart, we'd get 3.5" drives, and an option for a Blu-ray drive.
If not, they'll drop Firewire and stay with 2.5" drives.
I expect the latter. So, if I don't care about more than 3GB of RAM, what's the point of this "makeover"? It's just so Apple can increase their profit margin.
Im mostly hoping for an affordable MM (less than 500?*would be awesome, but it isn't going to happen. 599 will be the cheapest I think) with the new mini-displayport, more RAM capacity and a chipset thet supports the upcoming snow-leopard/openCL acceleration. The rest of the features (firewire, processor speed, form actor) are totally irrelevant for me. Anyone who cares about these should get an iMac or macBook
Why would OpenCL acceleration be of interest yet Firewire and Processor speed are not? Processor speed pays off %100 of the time and FW is a smarter bus that delivers much more power than USB.
People are getting a wee bit excited about OpenCL. Do not expect miracles. Most of the applications for CUDA are "geeky" and it's going to be a whle before we see the typical applications consumers use benefitting from OpenCL.
My guess is that they will target the MM as a secondary mac and/or multimedia hub. If I were at apple, I would make sure that :
- the MM doesn't cannibalize the desktop sales by removing firewire and equipping it with a slower & smaller disk. As such, any video enthousiast will be compelled to go for an iMac as primary machine
- the MM doesn't cannibalize the macbook sales by removing the optical drive
- the MM doesn't cannibalize the appleTV by limiting the video-out options. Just the mini-displayport, no composite video
-if they can keep the price low enough, a drive-less MM is perfect as hub or secondary computer. Again, you'll need an iMac to be properly equipped
Im mostly hoping for an affordable MM (less than 500?*would be awesome, but it isn't going to happen. 599 will be the cheapest I think) with the new mini-displayport, more RAM capacity and a chipset thet supports the upcoming snow-leopard/openCL acceleration. The rest of the features (firewire, processor speed, form actor) are totally irrelevant for me. Anyone who cares about these should get an iMac or macBook
It would be even easier and certainly more effective if Apple just drops the mini entirely. That should keep cannibalization to a bare minimum.
More seriously, never be afraid to make a good product.
My guess is that they will target the MM as a secondary mac and/or multimedia hub. If I were at apple, I would make sure that :
- the MM doesn't cannibalize the desktop sales by removing firewire and equipping it with a slower & smaller disk. As such, any video enthousiast will be compelled to go for an iMac as primary machine
- the MM doesn't cannibalize the macbook sales by removing the optical drive
- the MM doesn't cannibalize the appleTV by limiting the video-out options. Just the mini-displayport, no composite video
-if they can keep the price low enough, a drive-less MM is perfect as hub or secondary computer. Again, you'll need an iMac to be properly equipped
I don't see how an optical drive in a mini cannibalizes the MB. Also, moving from an AppleTV to a mini isn't cannibalization, it's upselling which is good for Apple, not bad. And the mini already has a slower, smaller hard drive; and as long as they stick with a 2.5" drive, it will always remain so compared to Apple's other desktop offerings. No danger of cannibalization there, either. As for Firewire, it's not as big a deal to remove it from a MB, which as a mobile platform wouldn't have a large number of external devices constantly hooked up to it. But Firewire's performance and reliability are more exploitable by a desktop machine and the types of devices you might have connected.
If Apple did everything you suggest, the mini would be so crippled, even as a secondary computer, that Apple might as well just kill of off now. Loss of Firewire is the most likely thing on the list above to come true; but I still hope you are incorrect about it!
I don't see how an optical drive in a mini cannibalizes the MB. Also, moving from an AppleTV to a mini isn't cannibalization, it's upselling which is good for Apple, not bad. And the mini already has a slower, smaller hard drive; and as long as they stick with a 2.5" drive, it will always remain so compared to Apple's other desktop offerings. No danger of cannibalization there, either. As for Firewire, it's not as big a deal to remove it from a MB, which as a mobile platform wouldn't have a large number of external devices constantly hooked up to it. But Firewire's performance and reliability are more exploitable by a desktop machine and the types of devices you might have connected.
If Apple did everything you suggest, the mini would be so crippled, even as a secondary computer, that Apple might as well just kill of off now. Loss of Firewire is the most likely thing on the list above to come true; but I still hope you are incorrect about it!
mkay, the drive-loss vs MB was indeed a flaky argument :-)
about firewire : as many have pointed out, the MM is actually a fairly powerful computer, perfectly capable of doing your video editing. Removing the FW port will ensure that video anthousiast will have to buy the iMac, which has a greater profit margin for Apple. Making it driveless and FW-less, will leave the MM only valuable as a 2nd mac & multimedia hub
The rest of the features (firewire, processor speed, form actor) are totally irrelevant for me. Anyone who cares about these should get an iMac or macBook
Comments
Steve Jobs said "We don't know how to make a $500 computer that's not a piece of junk." Yet the original Mac Mini cost $499 when it was introduced. Did Steve admit that the Mac Mini is a piece of junk?
I think SJ didn't choose the right wording, he was referring to PC laptops and complete PC systems which run under $500.
There seems to be 2 markets to serve here:
a. Corporate for which cheap mac minis are perfect for desktop computers or as part of server farms.
b. Consumer looking for low entry point into Mac ecosystem.
Possible simple solution for both markets:
1. Create a Terminal Services type of setup option on MAC servers that allow for multiple remote sessions by users. Corporations will need to purchase a license for each remote user.
2. Apple will allow provide this service for consumers on a subscription basis - AppleNet. Maybe $24.99-29.99 monthly for network access to 50gb of storage space, office software, and more..
3. Apple will allow users to use Apple TVs to connect to the AppleNet service or corporate Mac servers.
4. Rename the Apple TV device to remove the word "TV". Install Safari and iTunes on these devices. Offer a lower-priced version for $149.99.
5. Allow national ISPs to resell the device with internet access. ex. $40 per month from AT&T for DSL service and Apple Net access.
For many consumers, this will be very appealing
$149.99 for the device that will allow internet and itunes access.
$24.99 - $29.99 monthly subscription to a fully functional network desktop and 50gb of storage.
Jacob Varghese
Want to turn your Apple TV into a Mini? Snap-on the Super-Drive layer.
Time Capsule? Snap-on the hard drive layer.
DVR, Blu-Bag-of-Hurt, ... just keep on snappin'
Time Capsule, Mac Mini, Apple TV - all turned into a single set of white snap-on layers.
Want to turn your Apple TV into a Mini? Snap-on the Super-Drive layer.
Time Capsule? Snap-on the hard drive layer.
DVR, Blu-Bag-of-Hurt, ... just keep on snappin'
That is a great idea.
AppleNet
There seems to be 2 markets to serve here:
a. Corporate for which cheap mac minis are perfect for desktop computers or as part of server farms.
b. Consumer looking for low entry point into Mac ecosystem.
Possible simple solution for both markets:
1. Create a Terminal Services type of setup option on MAC servers that allow for multiple remote sessions by users. Corporations will need to purchase a license for each remote user.
2. Apple will allow provide this service for consumers on a subscription basis - AppleNet. Maybe $24.99-29.99 monthly for network access to 50gb of storage space, office software, and more..
I like #1. It could be the next logical step from screen sharing, by allowing multiple GUI logins at the same time (I belive currently you can only have simultaneous terminal logins, but not GUI logins on the same machine). I'm not sure how efficient Apple's screen sharing is, but a lot of techs at my company carry around laptops only to use Remote Desktop back to their desktop machines. If Apple could allow multiple logins on a single machine, or perhaps virtualization of the client machines on the server, you could put a bare bones client on the users desk. It would also solve the big problem we have of users never backing up the content on their individual computers. IT could simply backup the server.
As for #2, oh please no!! Apple has proven with MobileMe that they are not skilled at managing an online service! How about they get MM working properly (they are getting there), before piling more on.
Time Capsule, Mac Mini, Apple TV - all turned into a single set of white snap-on layers.
Want to turn your Apple TV into a Mini? Snap-on the Super-Drive layer.
Time Capsule? Snap-on the hard drive layer.
DVR, Blu-Bag-of-Hurt, ... just keep on snappin'
So basically, you are wanting a mini without an optical drive? Because you can already do all of the rest of that (except the Bag-of-Hurt). This is my exact set-up, minus blu-ray and DVR (could use El gato, if I wanted). A Mac mini, NewerTech miniStack, and Airport Extreme all stacked nicely behind my HDTV. I get better network drive performance with the mini hosting the drives than you'll get with Time Capsule, and the advantage of 3 additional FW drives daisy-chained to the miniStack for basically unlimited storage (which is why Apple needs to keep the FW, I'd freak trying to duplicate that on USB)!
As for the bag-of-hurt blu-ray, other than licensing, the other problem you'll have is audio. DisplayPort doesn't support audio, and as I understand it, the high-resolution audio on blu-ray can't be output via the optical connections (not enough bandwidth?). You'd still be able to have the 5.1 Dolby Digital (which I think is required on blu-ray discs?), but you'll never get the newer audio formats. Still, that would be sufficient for me.
So, take today's mini, add the NVIDIA chipset, larger HD, DisplayPort, start renting HD movies via Macs (not just via AppleTV), keep the FW (800?), and while they are at it finally upgrade the wi-fi to N already!
As to those who are hoping for an expansion slot, I'll have some of what you're smoking.
I still would prefer a cube format like the Shuttle (instead of integrated power supply have an external one).
Steve Jobs said "We don't know how to make a $500 computer that's not a piece of junk." Yet the original Mac Mini cost $499 when it was introduced. Did Steve admit that the Mac Mini is a piece of junk?
Nah....he just forgot to append " at the margins we like to seel at" to the end of that sentence.
Time Capsule, Mac Mini, Apple TV - all turned into a single set of white snap-on layers.
Want to turn your Apple TV into a Mini? Snap-on the Super-Drive layer.
Time Capsule? Snap-on the hard drive layer.
DVR, Blu-Bag-of-Hurt, ... just keep on snappin'
Exactly though the modular approach is an anethema to Apple. The A-I-O benefits are nice for computing novice and those that want simplicity. Enthusiasts want more control. Dual Monitors, and systems configured the way they want. Apple has not provided this yet unless you want a huge behemoth Mac Pro (I do) which is $$$$$.
I would be extremely surprised if Firewire was included on the new Mini. It's been dropped from the MacBook and SJ defended its omission in an email to a user. The port is on its way out, excepting perhaps at the high end (which is *definitely* not where the mini is positioned).
As to those who are hoping for an expansion slot, I'll have some of what you're smoking.
Jobs is a fcking moron. 17k signatures on a petition. FW complaint threads on various message boards hitting 2 and 3k posts. Jobs' is clearly wrong. Apple hardware has shown very little innovation which is why Psystar and other companies are trying to eat Apple's lunch.
I hope the next update will be substantial and the form factor can be smaller and the price points will stay the same or maybe a bit lower.
- the MM doesn't cannibalize the desktop sales by removing firewire and equipping it with a slower & smaller disk. As such, any video enthousiast will be compelled to go for an iMac as primary machine
- the MM doesn't cannibalize the macbook sales by removing the optical drive
- the MM doesn't cannibalize the appleTV by limiting the video-out options. Just the mini-displayport, no composite video
-if they can keep the price low enough, a drive-less MM is perfect as hub or secondary computer. Again, you'll need an iMac to be properly equipped
Im mostly hoping for an affordable MM (less than 500€*would be awesome, but it isn't going to happen. 599 will be the cheapest I think) with the new mini-displayport, more RAM capacity and a chipset thet supports the upcoming snow-leopard/openCL acceleration. The rest of the features (firewire, processor speed, form actor) are totally irrelevant for me. Anyone who cares about these should get an iMac or macBook
You don't hear many people saying 'I wish my desktop was more torsionally rigid'.
I wish I were!
I imagine the new MacMini with six FW 400 ports and four FW 800 ports!
If Apple were smart, we'd get 3.5" drives, and an option for a Blu-ray drive.
If not, they'll drop Firewire and stay with 2.5" drives.
I expect the latter. So, if I don't care about more than 3GB of RAM, what's the point of this "makeover"? It's just so Apple can increase their profit margin.
Im mostly hoping for an affordable MM (less than 500?*would be awesome, but it isn't going to happen. 599 will be the cheapest I think) with the new mini-displayport, more RAM capacity and a chipset thet supports the upcoming snow-leopard/openCL acceleration. The rest of the features (firewire, processor speed, form actor) are totally irrelevant for me. Anyone who cares about these should get an iMac or macBook
Why would OpenCL acceleration be of interest yet Firewire and Processor speed are not? Processor speed pays off %100 of the time and FW is a smarter bus that delivers much more power than USB.
People are getting a wee bit excited about OpenCL. Do not expect miracles. Most of the applications for CUDA are "geeky" and it's going to be a whle before we see the typical applications consumers use benefitting from OpenCL.
Apple will not make a "Mini" Mac.
Apple will not make a video iPod.
Apple will not make a mobile phone.
Apple will never switch to Intel processors.
Apple will not make a tablet computer.
Snow Leopard won't contain Cocoa touch.
Apple will not make a TV.
Steve Jobs will not send a personal check to me for $1M
My guess is that they will target the MM as a secondary mac and/or multimedia hub. If I were at apple, I would make sure that :
- the MM doesn't cannibalize the desktop sales by removing firewire and equipping it with a slower & smaller disk. As such, any video enthousiast will be compelled to go for an iMac as primary machine
- the MM doesn't cannibalize the macbook sales by removing the optical drive
- the MM doesn't cannibalize the appleTV by limiting the video-out options. Just the mini-displayport, no composite video
-if they can keep the price low enough, a drive-less MM is perfect as hub or secondary computer. Again, you'll need an iMac to be properly equipped
Im mostly hoping for an affordable MM (less than 500?*would be awesome, but it isn't going to happen. 599 will be the cheapest I think) with the new mini-displayport, more RAM capacity and a chipset thet supports the upcoming snow-leopard/openCL acceleration. The rest of the features (firewire, processor speed, form actor) are totally irrelevant for me. Anyone who cares about these should get an iMac or macBook
It would be even easier and certainly more effective if Apple just drops the mini entirely. That should keep cannibalization to a bare minimum.
More seriously, never be afraid to make a good product.
My guess is that they will target the MM as a secondary mac and/or multimedia hub. If I were at apple, I would make sure that :
- the MM doesn't cannibalize the desktop sales by removing firewire and equipping it with a slower & smaller disk. As such, any video enthousiast will be compelled to go for an iMac as primary machine
- the MM doesn't cannibalize the macbook sales by removing the optical drive
- the MM doesn't cannibalize the appleTV by limiting the video-out options. Just the mini-displayport, no composite video
-if they can keep the price low enough, a drive-less MM is perfect as hub or secondary computer. Again, you'll need an iMac to be properly equipped
I don't see how an optical drive in a mini cannibalizes the MB. Also, moving from an AppleTV to a mini isn't cannibalization, it's upselling which is good for Apple, not bad. And the mini already has a slower, smaller hard drive; and as long as they stick with a 2.5" drive, it will always remain so compared to Apple's other desktop offerings. No danger of cannibalization there, either. As for Firewire, it's not as big a deal to remove it from a MB, which as a mobile platform wouldn't have a large number of external devices constantly hooked up to it. But Firewire's performance and reliability are more exploitable by a desktop machine and the types of devices you might have connected.
If Apple did everything you suggest, the mini would be so crippled, even as a secondary computer, that Apple might as well just kill of off now. Loss of Firewire is the most likely thing on the list above to come true; but I still hope you are incorrect about it!
I don't see how an optical drive in a mini cannibalizes the MB. Also, moving from an AppleTV to a mini isn't cannibalization, it's upselling which is good for Apple, not bad. And the mini already has a slower, smaller hard drive; and as long as they stick with a 2.5" drive, it will always remain so compared to Apple's other desktop offerings. No danger of cannibalization there, either. As for Firewire, it's not as big a deal to remove it from a MB, which as a mobile platform wouldn't have a large number of external devices constantly hooked up to it. But Firewire's performance and reliability are more exploitable by a desktop machine and the types of devices you might have connected.
If Apple did everything you suggest, the mini would be so crippled, even as a secondary computer, that Apple might as well just kill of off now. Loss of Firewire is the most likely thing on the list above to come true; but I still hope you are incorrect about it!
mkay, the drive-loss vs MB was indeed a flaky argument :-)
about firewire : as many have pointed out, the MM is actually a fairly powerful computer, perfectly capable of doing your video editing. Removing the FW port will ensure that video anthousiast will have to buy the iMac, which has a greater profit margin for Apple. Making it driveless and FW-less, will leave the MM only valuable as a 2nd mac & multimedia hub
The rest of the features (firewire, processor speed, form actor) are totally irrelevant for me. Anyone who cares about these should get an iMac or macBook
Pro, you forgot "Pro" after macBook.