The regular cell phone market is cutthroat. The margins are simply too small. The market is too mature and there are too many competitors. It would be like Apple selling a $200 PC. It's just not going to happen.
The only arguments I've heard from people on here is about how *they* would buy that phone. The only way Apple will do this is if they decide they'll make money. Apple is a high margin company, and the only time I remember them selling a low-margin mass-market product was the iPod Shuffle.
It makes absolutely no sense for them to do this. The iPod wouldn't be that much cheaper that the full iPhone to make up for the cheaper cost.
The smartphone market is new, the margins are high, and it's still growing. That's why they launched the iPhone.
The App Store already allows developers to specify what device their software runs on. Obviously, no one has currently selected "iPhone Nano", so no software would be available initially. However, I would imagine it wouldn't be rocket science to port a lot of it to the smaller screen and flip on that switch. That would enable a whole new set of buyers, and probably give previous purchasers free upgrades to the phoneNano-enabled versions.
Didn't know that (not a developer) but it's encouraging news. Still seems to me there would have to be (mostly) separate versions of the programs for the device just like the iPod nano.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaarrrgggh
What the heck could Apple do to make "just a phone" better than many of the offerings out there? ...
Even if there were no games or programs for it because it's too small, the fact that it had the iTunes store on it would make it better than every other regular flip phone out there. If only Apple (or anyone) could convince the stupid cell carriers to let us use the iTunes store over the cell network!!!!
I fail to see how making a smaller one would make the device significantly cheaper.
If anything, wouldn't it make it more expensive?
Plus it makes touch interaction much more difficult as the buttons are presumably smaller.
Maybe it will have an ipod click wheel for dialling instead of touch like the old-fashioned phones. Basically an ipod nano with a phone component.
That might actually be quite cool now I think about it. I think they'd still need to add a camera as even basic phones have a camera but no web browsing and maps, just a phone + ipod.
Texting would be done by selecting letters on a rotary display. So rather than hitting letters multiple times, you simply scroll to the letter. It could have an acceleration to get to letters quickly.
By the way, are you aware of Microsoft's "nano Touch"? Nice swipe, MS.
I think the moral of this story is that if you're a case-maker and want to drum up business for your site, just put a dead link to a rumored Apple product on the page for a little awhile. Whether or not it's true, that company is probably making out well because of the posting.
Bingo. This is about as true as that Mac-Pro-Mini-Nano rumor I heard. It's got all the
power of a Quad-core Mac Pro, but in a form factor the size of your pinkie fingernail.
Of course, it has the term "mini" in it, so there's no keyboard, mouse, or display. It will
be announced at MacWorld, when that "other guy" finishes his keynote, and then says,
"Oh. There's one more thing . . ." and Steve comes out wearing one.
I don't know, it looks legit to me. The top is in line with the new MacBook designs, the trim around the top might be for access and/or ventilation.
Also why would anyone fake a photo that well and print out a large banner just to publish a rumor?
The lengths that some Apple fanatics will go to just to get some web click traffic is endless!
Also, the kerning of the headline looks off. You'd think the designers would know how to adjust the tracking between the apostrophe and "s" in the word "world's". That is a rank amateur mistake.
The regular cell phone market is cutthroat. The margins are simply too small. The market is too mature and there are too many competitors. It would be like Apple selling a $200 PC. It's just not going to happen.
Everyone was saying how the phone arena was glutted and cutthroat before Apple came into the arena. Apple had them eating crow showing just how a device - regardless of how crowded the market is - can overtake the industry.
I take this article with a grain of salt. However, I would never dismiss that Apple may in fact have something being forged from deep within the Skunkworks labs.
And how about emailing people or web browsing?? Texting using a rotary display will be extremely 'slow'. It won't be user friendly either and we all know Apple's obsession with UIs.
I don't think it would be much slower than normal texting. Like I say, you'd know which letter you were wanting so if you were on the letter 'a' but wanted 's', you'd give a quick swipe so it would accelerate quickly to around the qprstuv range and then just slow down to accurately hit 's'. It's nowhere near as quick as a full keyboard but I doubt it's much slower than the multi-press texting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Delfoniq
I love the full-featured QWERTY keyboard on my current iPhone. There is no way I'm going back.
Since you already have an iphone, you don't need to buy this though. It's for people who want into the ipod/phone world without spending a huge amount of money. Imagine the iphone is like the Mac Pro, this would be the xPhone.
The kind of device that people are used to and it's competitively priced. It can't be touch-based because you'd be bordering on ipod touch pricing as a starting point. Add phone components and you just get an iphone.
Currently, you can get a decent Nokia with a 2MPixel camera for £80. The cheapest iphone is £350. Current ipod Nano is £110. ipod Touch is £165.
I'm not entirely sure why the iphone is so much more when it seems to only have a microphone, the phone components and GPS. Surely they could manage a phone based on the ipod touch for £199.
Still, for market penetration, something around the £100-150 mark would be attractive to people who are fed up having an ipod and a phone. My guess for this market would be teenage high school girls.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Delfoniq
IMHO I don't see this happening.
Me neither to be honest but I didn't think Apple would make a phone at all and they've done a few crazy things.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich
Here's a purported pic of the new Mac mini, but it smells like a stinkin' fake to me.
It has to be as the components just wouldn't fit. The wifi and bluetooth could go in the bit at the top. The hard drive and motherboard couldn't go at the bottom though unless it was a shrunk down board like the MBA. Uh oh.
The MBA has an Nvidia chipset in it. It also supports 1.83GHz Core 2 Duo chips as well as 128GB drives.
The reason this could be an option is the amount of press this little machine got:
Mainly because it was believed to be vaporware. If this was the route they were going, I doubt they'd bother with the internal optical drive though.
The thing is, although it sounds like a really crappy slow computer, if the Mini was that size with Nvidia 9400M (16 cores) and a 1.83-2.0GHz Core 2 Duo, up to 4GB Ram and an option for a 128GB SSD, it would still be a good bit faster using Snow Leopard than the current Mini while being about half the size.
i would get a big kick out of if apple tried an iphone nano
you'd have the complaints start rolling in
"I don't see why, for $100, they couldn't throw in _____________ (whatever feature is important to that individual.)"
ad nauseum until the complaints collectively recreate the iphone.
from a marketing perspective, the people who want the iphone nano want all the features but they don't want to pay the price. granted, not every individual wants every feature, but as a whole, they want every feature.
therefore, just wait until the people want it bad enough to pay the money. catering to the individual just doesn't work.
Maybe they are going to make a small PHONE, an Apple PHONE, but still ONLY a PHONE. EVERY kid will want one, and millions will get one. And you are right, it's a great stepping stone to an iPhone.
Skip
I suppose before the Shuffle I'd have stuggled to imagine how they'd shrink the iPod Mini. The genius is in what they leave out.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin
Currently, you can get a decent Nokia with a 2MPixel camera for £80. The cheapest iphone is £350. Current ipod Nano is £110. ipod Touch is £165.
I'm not entirely sure why the iphone is so much more when it seems to only have a microphone, the phone components and GPS. Surely they could manage a phone based on the ipod touch for £199.
Remember that the £350 gets you 12mths of WiFi & 3G data too (which retails seperately at £120 (£10pm)), so they aren't massively off your £200 figure. The problem for Apple is that in the UK/Europe consumers just aren't used to laying out these large upfront costs for mobiles so any way Apple can drive that down is going to help.
As to this case rumour - and as others have said - well it's just upping their site traffic isn't it?
I don't think it would be much slower than normal texting. Like I say, you'd know which letter you were wanting so if you were on the letter 'a' but wanted 's', you'd give a quick swipe so it would accelerate quickly to around the qprstuv range and then just slow down to accurately hit 's'. It's nowhere near as quick as a full keyboard but I doubt it's much slower than the multi-press texting.
Nokia tried this once on one of their phones and apple already use a similar system on the ipod nano for searching teh ipod library. it is very slow. multi press texting is still too slow to use for a whole message. Better to use a predictive texting system if you have a brain like mine and can commit weird stuff to memory like the number of times you have to tap the star key to get the correct nokian to display for a given combination of key strokes.
i think it would be better to use a pseudo-qwerty keyboard like the iphone but with two letters represented per button to double the hitbox for each button. a predictive dictionary could assume the word you were trying to type and for tricky words there could be a "hold button & tap a second finger to the correct side" gesture to force the dictionary to lock onto one the two letters.
Spooky. Sounds like Apple is selling crack cocaine.
An addiction is an addiction. Some are not as bad for you as others, but it's still an addiction.
Addiction in the sense that Apple gets you wanting more, the latest, the greatest. We're all part of this addiction, at least I know I am.
I had a G3, I wanted a G4, the a G5 ? all of which I purchased.
I had a 24" monitor, I then wanted the 30", and will buy a 36", 40", 42" or whatever they come out with next.
I had an original iPod, and have since purchased a shuffle, Nano I, and Nano II, and now the other day the Nano III, I also purchased a iPod Touch.
I look at purchasing an iphone, but I use a PHONE as a PHONE and didn't see the value in the iPhone. A my wife and family members said "Holy Shiet" "thats a first, skippy didn't buy the latest and newest toy from Apple" "the world must be coming to an end"!
And I know, I am not the only one who is like this, which is why I said "Get them hooked early" "Keep them for life".
Remember that the £350 gets you 12mths of WiFi & 3G data too (which retails seperately at £120 (£10pm)), so they aren't massively off your £200 figure. The problem for Apple is that in the UK/Europe consumers just aren't used to laying out these large upfront costs for mobiles so any way Apple can drive that down is going to help.
That's right, they probably factor in the data charge. If they could spread that cost out, people may be more inclined to go for it. I don't think the contract phone is expensive at all but shelling out £350 at once is a bit much , especially if it's a Christmas gift.
Simply charging by data usage should work as long as it always leaves enough credit for call-time. Say have a £5 minimum that can be left on the phone before topping up. They could charge £1 per day for data access up to a maximum of £10 per month.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunks
Nokia tried this once on one of their phones and apple already use a similar system on the ipod nano for searching teh ipod library. it is very slow. multi press texting is still too slow to use for a whole message. Better to use a predictive texting system if you have a brain like mine and can commit weird stuff to memory like the number of times you have to tap the star key to get the correct nokian to display for a given combination of key strokes.
Every time someone mentions predictive text, I think of this:
I like the way Apple use predictive text on the iphone so it should help a great deal. I absolutely can't stand texting on a normal phone. It takes me so long to type basic things and it's because I often overshoot the letter I want. If I can remember the combo for the letter I need, it would probably be much faster.
One technology Apple was looking into for the ipod was Thumbscript:
I can get the numbers fine - you just press the middle button followed by the outside ones. Letters seem a bit tricky though.
Maybe if they just had a grid on screen of 6 x 6 and you just used the click wheel to move up/down/left/right, center to select. You would need at most 4 presses to get to any character + 1 to select but at least you could see the choices all at once. The screen on the nano might be a bit small to fit all the characters and your message on at once though.
I can get the numbers fine - you just press the middle button followed by the outside ones. Letters seem a bit tricky though.
Maybe if they just had a grid on screen of 6 x 6 and you just used the click wheel to move up/down/left/right, center to select. You would need at most 4 presses to get to any character + 1 to select but at least you could see the choices all at once. The screen on the nano might be a bit small to fit all the characters and your message on at once though.
The new Cupcake version of Android has a cool technique for selecting characters where by you swipe across the on-screen keys and the letters preview - sort of like hovering. When you release, the character is set. My fat fingers are always hitting the wrong key on my iPhone.
Comments
The only arguments I've heard from people on here is about how *they* would buy that phone. The only way Apple will do this is if they decide they'll make money. Apple is a high margin company, and the only time I remember them selling a low-margin mass-market product was the iPod Shuffle.
It makes absolutely no sense for them to do this. The iPod wouldn't be that much cheaper that the full iPhone to make up for the cheaper cost.
The smartphone market is new, the margins are high, and it's still growing. That's why they launched the iPhone.
The App Store already allows developers to specify what device their software runs on. Obviously, no one has currently selected "iPhone Nano", so no software would be available initially. However, I would imagine it wouldn't be rocket science to port a lot of it to the smaller screen and flip on that switch. That would enable a whole new set of buyers, and probably give previous purchasers free upgrades to the phoneNano-enabled versions.
Didn't know that (not a developer) but it's encouraging news. Still seems to me there would have to be (mostly) separate versions of the programs for the device just like the iPod nano.
What the heck could Apple do to make "just a phone" better than many of the offerings out there? ...
Even if there were no games or programs for it because it's too small, the fact that it had the iTunes store on it would make it better than every other regular flip phone out there. If only Apple (or anyone) could convince the stupid cell carriers to let us use the iTunes store over the cell network!!!!
I fail to see how making a smaller one would make the device significantly cheaper.
If anything, wouldn't it make it more expensive?
Plus it makes touch interaction much more difficult as the buttons are presumably smaller.
Maybe it will have an ipod click wheel for dialling instead of touch like the old-fashioned phones. Basically an ipod nano with a phone component.
That might actually be quite cool now I think about it. I think they'd still need to add a camera as even basic phones have a camera but no web browsing and maps, just a phone + ipod.
Texting would be done by selecting letters on a rotary display. So rather than hitting letters multiple times, you simply scroll to the letter. It could have an acceleration to get to letters quickly.
By the way, are you aware of Microsoft's "nano Touch"? Nice swipe, MS.
Also here.
...and on an unrelated note, here's a purported pic of the new Mac mini, but it smells like a stinkin' fake to me.
yay...for something new from Apple
______________
I think the moral of this story is that if you're a case-maker and want to drum up business for your site, just put a dead link to a rumored Apple product on the page for a little awhile. Whether or not it's true, that company is probably making out well because of the posting.
Bingo. This is about as true as that Mac-Pro-Mini-Nano rumor I heard. It's got all the
power of a Quad-core Mac Pro, but in a form factor the size of your pinkie fingernail.
Of course, it has the term "mini" in it, so there's no keyboard, mouse, or display. It will
be announced at MacWorld, when that "other guy" finishes his keynote, and then says,
"Oh. There's one more thing . . ." and Steve comes out wearing one.
...and on an unrelated note, here's a purported pic of the new Mac mini, but it smells like a stinkin' fake to me.
I don't know, it looks legit to me. The top is in line with the new MacBook designs, the trim around the top might be for access and/or ventilation.
Also why would anyone fake a photo that well and print out a large banner just to publish a rumor?
I don't know, it looks legit to me. The top is in line with the new MacBook designs, the trim around the top might be for access and/or ventilation.
Also why would anyone fake a photo that well and print out a large banner just to publish a rumor?
The lengths that some Apple fanatics will go to just to get some web click traffic is endless!
Also, the kerning of the headline looks off. You'd think the designers would know how to adjust the tracking between the apostrophe and "s" in the word "world's". That is a rank amateur mistake.
The regular cell phone market is cutthroat. The margins are simply too small. The market is too mature and there are too many competitors. It would be like Apple selling a $200 PC. It's just not going to happen.
Everyone was saying how the phone arena was glutted and cutthroat before Apple came into the arena. Apple had them eating crow showing just how a device - regardless of how crowded the market is - can overtake the industry.
I take this article with a grain of salt. However, I would never dismiss that Apple may in fact have something being forged from deep within the Skunkworks labs.
And how about emailing people or web browsing?? Texting using a rotary display will be extremely 'slow'. It won't be user friendly either and we all know Apple's obsession with UIs.
I don't think it would be much slower than normal texting. Like I say, you'd know which letter you were wanting so if you were on the letter 'a' but wanted 's', you'd give a quick swipe so it would accelerate quickly to around the qprstuv range and then just slow down to accurately hit 's'. It's nowhere near as quick as a full keyboard but I doubt it's much slower than the multi-press texting.
I love the full-featured QWERTY keyboard on my current iPhone. There is no way I'm going back.
Since you already have an iphone, you don't need to buy this though. It's for people who want into the ipod/phone world without spending a huge amount of money. Imagine the iphone is like the Mac Pro, this would be the xPhone.
The kind of device that people are used to and it's competitively priced. It can't be touch-based because you'd be bordering on ipod touch pricing as a starting point. Add phone components and you just get an iphone.
Currently, you can get a decent Nokia with a 2MPixel camera for £80. The cheapest iphone is £350. Current ipod Nano is £110. ipod Touch is £165.
I'm not entirely sure why the iphone is so much more when it seems to only have a microphone, the phone components and GPS. Surely they could manage a phone based on the ipod touch for £199.
Still, for market penetration, something around the £100-150 mark would be attractive to people who are fed up having an ipod and a phone. My guess for this market would be teenage high school girls.
IMHO I don't see this happening.
Me neither to be honest but I didn't think Apple would make a phone at all and they've done a few crazy things.
Here's a purported pic of the new Mac mini, but it smells like a stinkin' fake to me.
It has to be as the components just wouldn't fit. The wifi and bluetooth could go in the bit at the top. The hard drive and motherboard couldn't go at the bottom though unless it was a shrunk down board like the MBA. Uh oh.
The MBA has an Nvidia chipset in it. It also supports 1.83GHz Core 2 Duo chips as well as 128GB drives.
The reason this could be an option is the amount of press this little machine got:
http://www.cherrypal.com/
Mainly because it was believed to be vaporware. If this was the route they were going, I doubt they'd bother with the internal optical drive though.
The thing is, although it sounds like a really crappy slow computer, if the Mini was that size with Nvidia 9400M (16 cores) and a 1.83-2.0GHz Core 2 Duo, up to 4GB Ram and an option for a 128GB SSD, it would still be a good bit faster using Snow Leopard than the current Mini while being about half the size.
you'd have the complaints start rolling in
"I don't see why, for $100, they couldn't throw in _____________ (whatever feature is important to that individual.)"
ad nauseum until the complaints collectively recreate the iphone.
from a marketing perspective, the people who want the iphone nano want all the features but they don't want to pay the price. granted, not every individual wants every feature, but as a whole, they want every feature.
therefore, just wait until the people want it bad enough to pay the money. catering to the individual just doesn't work.
Anything but.
Get them hooked early, and keep them for life.
Spooky. Sounds like Apple is selling crack cocaine.
Maybe they are going to make a small PHONE, an Apple PHONE, but still ONLY a PHONE. EVERY kid will want one, and millions will get one. And you are right, it's a great stepping stone to an iPhone.
Skip
I suppose before the Shuffle I'd have stuggled to imagine how they'd shrink the iPod Mini. The genius is in what they leave out.....
Currently, you can get a decent Nokia with a 2MPixel camera for £80. The cheapest iphone is £350. Current ipod Nano is £110. ipod Touch is £165.
I'm not entirely sure why the iphone is so much more when it seems to only have a microphone, the phone components and GPS. Surely they could manage a phone based on the ipod touch for £199.
Remember that the £350 gets you 12mths of WiFi & 3G data too (which retails seperately at £120 (£10pm)), so they aren't massively off your £200 figure. The problem for Apple is that in the UK/Europe consumers just aren't used to laying out these large upfront costs for mobiles so any way Apple can drive that down is going to help.
As to this case rumour - and as others have said - well it's just upping their site traffic isn't it?
I don't think it would be much slower than normal texting. Like I say, you'd know which letter you were wanting so if you were on the letter 'a' but wanted 's', you'd give a quick swipe so it would accelerate quickly to around the qprstuv range and then just slow down to accurately hit 's'. It's nowhere near as quick as a full keyboard but I doubt it's much slower than the multi-press texting.
Nokia tried this once on one of their phones and apple already use a similar system on the ipod nano for searching teh ipod library. it is very slow. multi press texting is still too slow to use for a whole message. Better to use a predictive texting system if you have a brain like mine and can commit weird stuff to memory like the number of times you have to tap the star key to get the correct nokian to display for a given combination of key strokes.
i think it would be better to use a pseudo-qwerty keyboard like the iphone but with two letters represented per button to double the hitbox for each button. a predictive dictionary could assume the word you were trying to type and for tricky words there could be a "hold button & tap a second finger to the correct side" gesture to force the dictionary to lock onto one the two letters.
Spooky. Sounds like Apple is selling crack cocaine.
An addiction is an addiction. Some are not as bad for you as others, but it's still an addiction.
Addiction in the sense that Apple gets you wanting more, the latest, the greatest. We're all part of this addiction, at least I know I am.
I had a G3, I wanted a G4, the a G5 ? all of which I purchased.
I had a 24" monitor, I then wanted the 30", and will buy a 36", 40", 42" or whatever they come out with next.
I had an original iPod, and have since purchased a shuffle, Nano I, and Nano II, and now the other day the Nano III, I also purchased a iPod Touch.
I look at purchasing an iphone, but I use a PHONE as a PHONE and didn't see the value in the iPhone. A my wife and family members said "Holy Shiet" "thats a first, skippy didn't buy the latest and newest toy from Apple" "the world must be coming to an end"!
And I know, I am not the only one who is like this, which is why I said "Get them hooked early" "Keep them for life".
Skip
Remember that the £350 gets you 12mths of WiFi & 3G data too (which retails seperately at £120 (£10pm)), so they aren't massively off your £200 figure. The problem for Apple is that in the UK/Europe consumers just aren't used to laying out these large upfront costs for mobiles so any way Apple can drive that down is going to help.
That's right, they probably factor in the data charge. If they could spread that cost out, people may be more inclined to go for it. I don't think the contract phone is expensive at all but shelling out £350 at once is a bit much , especially if it's a Christmas gift.
Simply charging by data usage should work as long as it always leaves enough credit for call-time. Say have a £5 minimum that can be left on the phone before topping up. They could charge £1 per day for data access up to a maximum of £10 per month.
Nokia tried this once on one of their phones and apple already use a similar system on the ipod nano for searching teh ipod library. it is very slow. multi press texting is still too slow to use for a whole message. Better to use a predictive texting system if you have a brain like mine and can commit weird stuff to memory like the number of times you have to tap the star key to get the correct nokian to display for a given combination of key strokes.
Every time someone mentions predictive text, I think of this:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Fiwl2V_lric
I like the way Apple use predictive text on the iphone so it should help a great deal. I absolutely can't stand texting on a normal phone. It takes me so long to type basic things and it's because I often overshoot the letter I want. If I can remember the combo for the letter I need, it would probably be much faster.
One technology Apple was looking into for the ipod was Thumbscript:
http://www.ipoding.com/node/1668
It uses a series of presses to represent characters and numbers. There's a demo on their site:
http://www.thumbscript.com/tsdemo/TSDemo.html
I can get the numbers fine - you just press the middle button followed by the outside ones. Letters seem a bit tricky though.
Maybe if they just had a grid on screen of 6 x 6 and you just used the click wheel to move up/down/left/right, center to select. You would need at most 4 presses to get to any character + 1 to select but at least you could see the choices all at once. The screen on the nano might be a bit small to fit all the characters and your message on at once though.
I can get the numbers fine - you just press the middle button followed by the outside ones. Letters seem a bit tricky though.
Maybe if they just had a grid on screen of 6 x 6 and you just used the click wheel to move up/down/left/right, center to select. You would need at most 4 presses to get to any character + 1 to select but at least you could see the choices all at once. The screen on the nano might be a bit small to fit all the characters and your message on at once though.
The new Cupcake version of Android has a cool technique for selecting characters where by you swipe across the on-screen keys and the letters preview - sort of like hovering. When you release, the character is set. My fat fingers are always hitting the wrong key on my iPhone.
I'm leaning towards the middle one since I have a dozen letterbox movies on my iPhone.