Next-gen iMacs due in January, says paper

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  • Reply 61 of 95
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,951member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by markb View Post


    Oh please let quad-core be the base (or only) config for both minis and imacs. OpenCL + quadcore +Nvidia chips + Mac OS X 10.6 = a system I can unreservedly recommend to anyone.



    I don't think it's really necessary for everyone to have quad core just yet. Given the cost of those chips in medium and low power versions, I doubt you're going to see them in the mini for a while, and I would only expect quad core to be in the very top iMac models in the next update.
  • Reply 62 of 95
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Halvri View Post


    Apple is a member of the Blu-Ray Disc Association. The reason it hasn't yet adopted the technology is likely a result of Blu-Ray's ever declining sales and the fact that it runs a competing download service in iTunes (same reason Microsoft hasn't released a Blu-Ray player for the Xbox).



    BluRay is certainly a hard sell and likely will decline in sale or stay stagnent for the next couple of years it is simply a poor choice.



    As to Apple I think they would like to have BluRay drives in their machines. The problem is that bag of hurt. I'm still thinking that their goal is a hardware approach that doesn't expose the decoded video stream to user programmable processors.

    Quote:

    As to the technology, the iMacs are based on mobile platforms and have the most recent in that area per their release. This is why they're now moving to quad-core: Intel is only now releasing power efficient quad-core mobile processors.



    True but it doesn't have to stay that way.

    Quote:

    The same is true for the Mac Pros in terms of the server based processors it uses. More than likely Apple will adopt Intel's Core i7 processors for the Pro's next release as it offers true quad core performance and it will soon offer the same with eight cores on a chip (meaning we'll likely see a 16-core Mac Pro in 2010).



    Everything considered, we're almost assuredly going to see LED backlighting in all but the largest Cinema Display (the 30" is simply too costly at current rates) and throughout the entire iMac line.



    I don't think pricing is as big a problem for Apple as you may think. They are very focused on being green right now. Besides why stop at 30 inches?

    Quote:

    I seriously, doubt, though, that the highest end iMac will adopt the exact same Nvidia chips as the rest. While a 9400 or 9600 card would be a definite upgrade over the current ATI HD 2400 and 2600 cards used in the lower end models, they would be a serious downgrade from the 8800GS used in the current high end model (which is why I suspect it will move to atleast a 9800 card).



    The bigger the iMac the more flexibility with respect to installed hardware. The one thing I don't buy though is arguing for a hot video card and then dismissing an i7 processor. A 17 inch iMac would certainly have issues if made but a 30 inch iMac ought to have room for a desktop processor and a couple of disk drives.



    In any event the largest iMac ought to have two GPUs! Seriously, with the advent of Snow Leopard and OpenCL the high end iMac really needs to be able support GPGPU at an advance level. Yeah a lot of power but I really see Apple needing an excellent OpenCL performer that is a desktop.

    Quote:

    The only product line Apple is truly behind on is the Mac Mini, which doesn't surprise me given it's primarily sold to businesses who find its current specs more than adequate. That said, given the state of the economy, I do expect Apple will begin to push it as a consumer item more pronouncedly.



    Corporations do love their standardized PCs. I do think though that Minis appeal is broader than implied. The problem is of course is that business percieves that a stable platform is a good thing but the consumer thinks the platform is always outdated. It will be interesting to see what comes up with for Minis replacement.

    Quote:

    I'm expecting the 2.0GHz and 2.4GHz Core 2 Duos and the Nvidia 9400m chips used in the MacBook line to filter into the new models. The new Mini DisplayPort will obviously be making an appearance and the Firewire 400 port will be gone, so that begs the question of what will fill the space gained from removing that and the DVI port preceding the new MDP.



    I suspect that most of the above is correct except for the FireWire part. The problem is that a very large number of those corporate users use that Firewire port. It would have a far bigger impact on sales then what the ports deletion on Mac Book did. Apple would be more likely to update the port to faster speeds.

    Quote:

    My guess is a couple more USB ports and possibly a TV tuner. Steve Jobs clearly has no love for the Apple TV, so it wouldn't surprise me were he to reposition the Mini as a media center computer.



    More USB ports are always nice. The best thing that Apple could do is to shoot for flexibility and add an expansion slot. This way a number of cards could configure the machine for different uses. That card could be anything from a eSATA port to a short wave radio. Due to minis size there would obviously be size and power restrictions but you have to deal with that with all card formats.

    Quote:

    The final changes will be in the upgrade to a Wireless-N Airport card, a larger allotment of DDR 3 SDRAM, & hard drives in-line with the current MacBooks (i.e. up to 320GB). I expect the price points of the two current models to stay mostly unchanged.



    Interesting, but I could see Apple offering a far wider price range with the low end dual core with a standard 9400M and the high end a quad with a souped up 9400M. I say souped up because I suspect that the 9400M could run a bit faster with desktop cooling.

    Quote:



    All of that said, I think your criticisms are both false and ridiculous. You're arguing based off of inaccurate perception of technology and an even more inaccurate sense reasoning as to why some of your desires haven't been fulfilled.



    I've heard the same about some of my suggestions but don't get to worked up about it. First I know that some of my ideas are a stretch. But I also realize that a lot of people here think their view point is the only valid one no matter the engineering realities. For example some will object to my call for dual GPUs in the largest iMac but it really isn't impossible it is for the most part a marketing issue and a thermal design issue.



    Dave
  • Reply 63 of 95
    backtomacbacktomac Posts: 4,579member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post


    The Quad-Core will only be for the highest-end 24", the entry, mid 20" and entry 24" would only be dual core. The main line up would hopefully be



    20" entry - Dualcore, 2GB RAM, Nvidia 9600GT 256MB

    20" better - Dualcore, 2GB RAM, with Nvidia 9600GT 512MB

    24" entry - Dualcore, 4GB RAM, with Nvidia 9600GT 512MB

    24" best - Quadcore, 4GB RAM, with Nvidia 9800GT 512MB/1GB(?)VRAM



    I hope you're wrong.



    Sub $1000 dollar quad core pc systems aren't hard to find. I really don't see how Apple can reserve quad core for the most expensive iMac. That's already a $2000 rig.



    I hope and suspect that the entry level 20" will be dual core, the better 20" will be quad core and the 24"s will be quad core all with some form of NVIDIA graphics.



    As mjteix has shown (in another thread), by moving to low power desktop parts, Apple can easily accomplish this while upgrading the displays to LED backlighting and maintaining margins. Hopefully the iMac enclosure can accommodate 65w cpus or Apple will modify the enclosure to do so.
  • Reply 64 of 95
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by teckstud View Post


    Why? He is stating fact .

    It (racoon-faced iMac) is frkn FUGLY.



    No, that is an opinion In my opinion, the black frame is beautiful. It makes the pictures jump out at you and creates more depth to it. While it is just my opinion, clearly the movie and television industry and most consumers think black is the best choice to surround a screen. I don't see any HDTV's coming out these days with anything but a black frame. (Unless you count the TOC from Samsung.) Anything too colorful distracts from the picture being displayed. And the aluminum is gorgeous.



    At any rate, I hope the new iMac keeps the same form perhaps with a slightly less glossy screen. The only thing I think it absolutely, positively must have is a MULTI CARD READER. I'm not sure what Apple has against these but damn if I want to get out a stupid cable every time I want to transfer pictures from my camera. The thing is tiny so space limitations shouldn't be an issue. My $650 laptop has this so why can't a 'premium' iMac or MacBook have one? Is there a reason Apple doesn't like giving highly useful, inexpensive capabilities to its products? MMS on iPhone anyone?
  • Reply 65 of 95
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,357member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by oneaburns View Post


    No, that is an opinion In my opinion, the black frame is beautiful. It makes the pictures jump out at you and creates more depth to it. While it is just my opinion, clearly the movie and television industry and most consumers think black is the best choice to surround a screen. I don't see any HDTV's coming out these days with anything but a black frame. (Unless you count the TOC from Samsung.) Anything too colorful distracts from the picture being displayed. And the aluminum is gorgeous.



    At any rate, I hope the new iMac keeps the same form perhaps with a slightly less glossy screen. The only thing I think it absolutely, positively must have is a MULTI CARD READER. I'm not sure what Apple has against these but damn if I want to get out a stupid cable every time I want to transfer pictures from my camera.



    Yes I've come to realize that Apple does indeed hate the integrated card reader and I do admit that integrating card readers has often been rather superfluous in some devices. Bluetooth was supposed to make the need to for cables moot but clearly they didn't have their shit together.
  • Reply 66 of 95
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,951member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by oneaburns View Post


    No, that is an opinion In my opinion, the black frame is beautiful. It makes the pictures jump out at you and creates more depth to it. While it is just my opinion, clearly the movie and television industry and most consumers think black is the best choice to surround a screen. I don't see any HDTV's coming out these days with anything but a black frame. (Unless you count the TOC from Samsung.) Anything too colorful distracts from the picture being displayed. And the aluminum is gorgeous.



    Which is quite an interesting turn, when their display had an aluminum bezel, their sales lit said that aluminum was the best color. Colors on consumer electronics seem to be dictated by trend. As it is, I don't know what it is about consumer electronics, other than that, I don't have a whole lot of very dark or black objects in my apartment. Unless I wanted to pay a lot more, there often aren't a lot of color options.



    On the new notebooks, I think the black bezel also does pretty well to hide the fact that the bezel is wider.



    Quote:

    At any rate, I hope the new iMac keeps the same form perhaps with a slightly less glossy screen. The only thing I think it absolutely, positively must have is a MULTI CARD READER. I'm not sure what Apple has against these but damn if I want to get out a stupid cable every time I want to transfer pictures from my camera. The thing is tiny so space limitations shouldn't be an issue. My $650 laptop has this so why can't a 'premium' iMac or MacBook have one? Is there a reason Apple doesn't like giving highly useful, inexpensive capabilities to its products? MMS on iPhone anyone?



    I think it may be for looks.
  • Reply 67 of 95
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,951member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post


    Yes I've come to realize that Apple does indeed hate the integrated card reader and I do admit that integrating card readers has often been rather superfluous in some devices. Bluetooth was supposed to make the need to for cables moot but clearly they didn't have their shit together.



    Bluetooth doesn't really replace the need for a card reader or cable, photos, audio and videos are just too large, the batteries will die before a notable amount of data is transferred.
  • Reply 68 of 95
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Halvri View Post


    ... The new Mini DisplayPort will obviously be making an appearance ...



    I am too thinking that Apple will put the MiniDP into the Mini, but as there are no Displays (except the ACD) nor adapters available for MiniDP how is Apple going to sell the Mini. They can't believe that I buy a $ 800,- screen from Apple to accomodate the "cheap" Mini!
  • Reply 69 of 95
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,357member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by copeland View Post


    I am too thinking that Apple will put the MiniDP into the Mini, but as there are no Displays (except the ACD) nor adapters available for MiniDP how is Apple going to sell the Mini. They can't believe that I buy a $ 800,- screen from Apple to accomodate the "cheap" Mini!



    But what if they announce new LED Apple Displays.



    What if MWSF comes with new iMacs and Mac mini but also

    a 20" Apple LED Display and a 30" model?



    Of course the iMac would be the better deal but the initial cash outlay

    may be more than some can bear but but having a matching 20" ACD

    Apple could sell a low cost mini and perhaps get the monitor sale later

    on.
  • Reply 70 of 95
    I said earlier that there is no reason Apple couldn't combine an Nvidia chipset with a discrete ATI GPU, especially since an iMac doesn't need power savings like a notebook. Now, look what is appearing in January: Mobility Radeon HD4850



    PS: Take a look at the price and specs on the notebook that page links to
  • Reply 71 of 95
    What I like to see is for the new iMac to move the USB to the side under the superdrive. It would make a lot more sense to have the ports more accessible then the current model. I have the current model and it is a small annoyance as I ended up finally just getting a powered USB hub with 4 connections.



    I tried to eliminate clutter and wires and still have that one extra ugly thing with wires on on my desktop. That was the reason I went wireless on the keyboard and mouse.
  • Reply 72 of 95
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by copeland View Post


    I am too thinking that Apple will put the MiniDP into the Mini, but as there are no Displays (except the ACD) nor adapters available for MiniDP how is Apple going to sell the Mini. They can't believe that I buy a $ 800,- screen from Apple to accomodate the "cheap" Mini!



    If Apple puts a MiniDisplayport in the Mac Mini, that is not a problem, the Mac Mini can still connect to 24" LED Cinema Display, DVI, VGA because Apple has MiniDisplayport to DVI adapters, etc.



    It's the Apple LED Display that can't go the other way, it *must* be used with something that has a MiniDisplayport.
  • Reply 73 of 95
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by oneaburns View Post


    At any rate, I hope the new iMac keeps the same form perhaps with a slightly less glossy screen. The only thing I think it absolutely, positively must have is a MULTI CARD READER. I'm not sure what Apple has against these but damn if I want to get out a stupid cable every time I want to transfer pictures from my camera. The thing is tiny so space limitations shouldn't be an issue. My $650 laptop has this so why can't a 'premium' iMac or MacBook have one? Is there a reason Apple doesn't like giving highly useful, inexpensive capabilities to its products? MMS on iPhone anyone?



    Well, here's one reason why it may not be needed... many if not most printers have card readers in them already. I know my Epson printer doubles as my card reader and so I don't need a card reader in my Mac or as a stand-alone peripheral.
  • Reply 74 of 95
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by FuturePastNow View Post


    I said earlier that there is no reason Apple couldn't combine an Nvidia chipset with a discrete ATI GPU, especially since an iMac doesn't need power savings like a notebook. Now, look what is appearing in January: Mobility Radeon HD4850



    PS: Take a look at the price and specs on the notebook that page links to



    Good find. However, one thing that really stops me from even considering a PC laptop is the displays, very, very few have LED backlit displays. They have fancy names, but when you look at 17", 15" and 13", the sheer brightness of the Apple laptops blows a lot of PC laptop screens away.



    Interestingly, the Radeon HD 4850 on desktops is a decent competitor. Word on the street is that these 4800 series Radeons are what caused Nvidia to drop their 9800 and 9600 series prices to compete.



    In any case, it remains my belief the iMac update will involve Nvidia 9600 and 9800s. There's too much incentive (I can't explain it, just a gut feeling) for Apple's Nvidia MCP to be used with Nvidia 9600 and 9800s.



    Nvidia's got quite a bit of tweaking to do in it's 260 and 280 lines, the volume of business Nvidia is going to have to get in 2009 will be from the 9 series. 9600 and 9800 on the higher-end, and a whole bunch of 9300 and 9400s on the lower end. I think Nvidia's making some offers for Apple's iMac ... that's just too good for Apple to say no to.
  • Reply 75 of 95
    bugsnwbugsnw Posts: 717member
    The day Apple adds a card reader to their hardware is the day we all know Steve has died. There's a better chance he'll add an FM radio, with knobs and pushtabs, to the next iPods.



    Sandisk makes a great reader for their SD cards that slips into one of your USB ports (I have about 20 USB ports via 2 7-port hubs + what's available standard). Keeps all the wires in the back, out of sight.
  • Reply 76 of 95
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bugsnw View Post


    The day Apple adds a card reader to their hardware is the day we all know Steve has died. There's a better chance he'll add an FM radio, with knobs and pushtabs, to the next iPods.



    Sandisk makes a great reader for their SD cards that slips into one of your USB ports (I have about 20 USB ports via 2 7-port hubs + what's available standard). Keeps all the wires in the back, out of sight.



    But one of the things Apple is known for is its clean, sexy design...a card reader hanging from a usb slot isn't very clean or sexy IMHO. It just seems like it would be something so simple for Apple to add and at very minimal cost to them but great utility to the consumer. Apple is just funny that way. Of course, I'll still probably end up buying the new iMac if pricing doesn't change much. I'll just be slightly annoyed each time I try to upload photos and files.
  • Reply 77 of 95
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    Card readers I'm of mixed opinions about. It does make sense on laptops. Considering the use of Apple hardware by photo professional and others you would think that this would be a no brainer on Apples part. Especially now when the better camera seemed to have focused on two card formats ( Compact Flash & SD ).



    Card readers built into desktops is a different story in my estimation. Mainly because the hardware is expected to last longer. You can quickly find the ports outdated or transfer rate lagging. Of course updateable firmware can address some of this and frankly it is something that Apple does well.



    As to graphics cards I'm still going out on a limb here and will suggest that the top of the line IMac will have dual GPUs. One may or may not be stuffed into the chipset. The driver here of course is OpenCL, Apple will need a desktop that it can offer up as a strong OpenCL performer. Maybe that really isn't to far out on a limb, it pretty much looks like Apple is all in with this technology. I also have this idea in my head that the 9400M can be clocked faster or that there is a desktop variant.



    I'd also would not be surprised to see a performance oriented GPU in the largest iMac. This largest machine could be 20 some inches wide in the electronics area, that is a lot of room for a thermal management solution. Again the goal for Apple is to keep the machines competitive, so while a desktop part it won't be top of the line.





    Dave
  • Reply 78 of 95
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


    Card readers I'm of mixed opinions about. It does make sense on laptops. Considering the use of Apple hardware by photo professional and others you would think that this would be a no brainer on Apples part. Especially now when the better camera seemed to have focused on two card formats ( Compact Flash & SD ).



    Card readers built into desktops is a different story in my estimation. Mainly because the hardware is expected to last longer. You can quickly find the ports outdated or transfer rate lagging. Of course updateable firmware can address some of this and frankly it is something that Apple does well.



    ....





    Dave



    I agree, but as you pointed out, a firmware or driver update will take care of any new cards that come out. I remember when I had a Windows laptop and SDHC cards came out and it did not recognize it. I just updated the driver and viola. (Of course, being windows, I had to do some searching to find the driver but I found it eventually.) If the update to the iMac is purely an internal refreshening then I don't expect a change. BUT, if they change the case in any way could they find it in their hearts to machine in a little 1" slot? \ Not only is it great for professional and amateur photographers but with a 16gb SDHC card able to be had for $24 it is a great way to carry around documents and presentations. Hopefully some pictures get leaked soon and we'll know for sure
  • Reply 79 of 95
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by oneaburns View Post


    ...... Not only is it great for professional and amateur photographers but with a 16gb SDHC card able to be had for $24 it is a great way to carry around documents and presentations. Hopefully some pictures get leaked soon and we'll know for sure



    First; that is a great price on a SDHC card.



    Second; the concept of using the cards for semi permant or semi internal storage expansion is very valid. I'm currently suffering from a stuffed harddisk and could really benefit from something like this to relieve storage issues. I suspect that in this case though compact flash is the way to go. Mostly from the perception that compact flash is faster and higher capacity.



    To solve the problem on my MacBook Pro I've been looking for express card format flash modules but have yet to find any that seem to be correctly implemented. Express card would seem to be ideal for this as it is a larger module but there don't seem to be many manufactures adopting it. The few that have, have Express card drives that are slower than their USB flash dongles. It is amazing how difficult it is to buy what should be an obvious product.



    Dave
  • Reply 80 of 95
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post


    My being too fast on the keys. What I personally find appauling is your lack of substance in this thread. Care to elaborate more on when or where to throw in a semicolon, colon, an apostrophe, or are those the high marks of your grammatical expertise?



    Well, since you mention it, the correct spelling is "appalling".



    That is all for now.
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