But the way it was worded sounds like it could be a different treatment than just a diffuse texture, because there are very good non-matte antiglare treatments that computer companies seem to have forgotten about. The old glossy MacBook Pro screen had a lighter-duty version of this, some kind of odd diffractive coating, but better treatments are available.
Antiglare on glass is possible, but I'd be willing to bet that's not the option here. I am fairly sure it has no glass, as the aluminum bezel is indicating.
Anti-glare on glass is an optical coating like that used in camera lenses. It has been used in high-end CRT computer monitors for at least 25 years. I remember seeing this in some color IBM terminals at school. The resulting image quality is very high, but they smudge VERY easily and visibly, since any fingerprint oils change the diffraction characteristics of the coatings. A matte LCD does not smudge nearly as easily.
Structurally, I'm sure the regular, glass option is more rigid. I don't know if there are any long-term implications. The old MacBook Pro design did start to bend visbly with rough use. Some people have machines where there is a visible gap between the lower bezel and the screen. I never had this problem with my MBP, but I always treated it very gently and I especially avoided pushing the screen beyond its maximum angle.
The Air is definitely more rigid than the old Pro, but the bezel is quite wide so that might be part of it. Still, the hinge design for the Air and the new MacBooks is different from the old Pro's. There is no plastic between the hinge and the top shell; there is metal to metal contact at at least two points on each hinge. The shell itself appears to be more rigid.
My best guess is that the deglossed 17" MBP is stronger than the previous 17" MBP, but not quite as strong as the glossy version. Those who have any doubts should best wait till they can actually see one in person.
while durable, they are at times hard to clean, if oil ever gets on it. which is all the time, if you travel.
I get good results with cotton and distilled water. Don't over dampen the cotton, though. You don't want water running all over the place.
I usually do two passes, about once a month. If it's really dirty you probably need several. It's not a fast method, but it will definitely clean the screen with no risk of scratches and no solvents.
it's hard to find cotton balls on a plane when the kid next to me keep on pointing at the bikini girl dancing at the edges. why can't a simple t-shirt or my tie work.
with glass, even a paper napkin or that cheap square paper coaster would work.
oh well
paul
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alonso Perez
I get good results with cotton and distilled water. Don't over dampen the cotton, though. You don't want water running all over the place.
I usually do two passes, about once a month. If it's really dirty you probably need several. It's not a fast method, but it will definitely clean the screen with no risk of scratches and no solvents.
They told me the anti-glare option that I had ordered meant there was an additional bezel. Its not the continuous seamless glass.
They managed to change my order - I felt the glossy was better since I own a unibody mac and really like the seamless glass display. I don't care for glossy - like everyone knows you have to make an effort on many occasions to remove the reflections.
The difference in feel (quality) of unibody macs compared to the old construction is really massive IMHO. Nothing from dell (including precision - of which we have several) comes close.
too bad for us as that info (on the matte) now leads me to stay with my mbp15 order as 8gb ram may be just too expensive into 2010....(i digress)
an anti-glare coating on the plastic polarizing front sheet can be very expensive, as the best ones are even scratch resistant.
for those who wear glasses, you know how expensive that anti scratch and anti-reflection coating is, upwards of $150 from better makers like zeiss or scheider. imagine how much bigger the surface area of a 17" screen versus the eyeglass lens.
you;re right, while you may want non glossy, a protective quality glass sure looks right and spinning that notebook a few degrees should not be that arduous.
paul
Quote:
Originally Posted by Right_said_fred
I was hoping that they were applying the anti-glare to the seamless glass. There are techniques that can apply super thin AR coatings to glass.
you;re right, while you may want non glossy, a protective quality glass sure looks right and spinning that notebook a few degrees should not be that arduous.
paul
That's true, but on the other hand a thin piece of 17" glass on a portable computer is kind of a new thing. I'm wondering how much of a drop would make it shatter, and what the equivalent damage to a non-glass machine would be.
I don't think the best durability choice is so obvious right now. I think people should go with their preference and not overthink it too much. Time will tell.
What are you supposed to do when the battery dies? All batteries die eventually. How much will it cost to replace it? CAN you replace it?
Maybe if you took the time to read the thread, you wouldn't be so confused. :P
Yes you can replace the battery relatively easily yourself for as much as new batteries cost (we won't know this until some 3rd parties start making them) or have Apple replace it for $179.
Antiglare on glass is possible, but I'd be willing to bet that's not the option here. I am fairly sure it has no glass, as the aluminum bezel is indicating.
Anti-glare on glass is an optical coating like that used in camera lenses. It has been used in high-end CRT computer monitors for at least 25 years. I remember seeing this in some color IBM terminals at school. The resulting image quality is very high, but they smudge VERY easily and visibly, since any fingerprint oils change the diffraction characteristics of the coatings. A matte LCD does not smudge nearly as easily.
The best way to not get fingerprint oils on a screen is to not touch the screen. Keep in mind that a smooth surface is easier to clean once it does get smudged, people that are prone to touching the screen are going to get smudges on the matte screens too. I tend to carry single-use anti-reflective cloths to clean things like lenses or screens.
I find it to be so worthwhile to get the good smooth antiglare, it doesn't wash out the image like light on a matte surface does, and it cuts down on reflections that just plain glass has.
Worst recession in 100 years? Don't write stupid BS. Your hyperbole is self-discrediting.
The fact that Intel has had to revise its fourth-quarter guidance twice indicates how deeply the economic meltdown has damaged the semiconductor industry. It also reveals how hard it is for even conservative companies?Intel formally stopped doing mid-quarter updates in 2006?to figure out how badly they're being hurt.
Intel blamed the latest revision on weaker-than-expected demand, piling up in a chain reaction. Businesses are putting off upgrading to new computers until the economy and their finances improve. And consumers, singed by layoffs and falling home prices and stock portfolios, have scaled back their spending as well. In turn that has prompted PC makers to try to save money by burning through their existing inventories of chips instead of buying lots of new ones.
These trends have slammed chip makers since the downturn intensified in September, and now appears to be worsening.
It looks very nice! Not enough to make me upgrade just yet, and it needs a few extra features before I'm enticed, like a Blu-Ray DVD player/burner and an extra FW port. With the matte screen option it's nearly perfect. It would be nice if the keyboard was silver to match the bezel on the matte screen.
what you wanted sounds like the previous generation of the mbp17 minus the blu-ray rw, which i also desired.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrJedi
It looks very nice! Not enough to make me upgrade just yet, and it needs a few extra features before I'm enticed, like a Blu-Ray DVD player/burner and an extra FW port. With the matte screen option it's nearly perfect. It would be nice if the keyboard was silver to match the bezel on the matte screen.
I ordered my new MBP17 (2.6GHz, 4GB, 7200RPM) yesterday.
Even though I was really impressed that Apple offered a matte version (which I prefer) I did order the glossy one. Not having the protective glass on the matte was the dealbreaker for me.
One could say I sacrifice my eyes in order to save the MBP screen
The fact that Intel has had to revise its fourth-quarter guidance twice indicates how deeply the economic meltdown has damaged the semiconductor industry. It also reveals how hard it is for even conservative companies?Intel formally stopped doing mid-quarter updates in 2006?to figure out how badly they're being hurt.
Intel blamed the latest revision on weaker-than-expected demand, piling up in a chain reaction. Businesses are putting off upgrading to new computers until the economy and their finances improve. And consumers, singed by layoffs and falling home prices and stock portfolios, have scaled back their spending as well. In turn that has prompted PC makers to try to save money by burning through their existing inventories of chips instead of buying lots of new ones.
These trends have slammed chip makers since the downturn intensified in September, and now appears to be worsening.
So what? That says nothing towards your statement of a 100 year recession. There's no indication of that yet.
I don't deny that there's hurt going on, but statements like yours do everyone a disservice by exaggerating it or pushing the hyperbole too far. It's that kind of overreaction that's going to cause more problems than it solves. I doubt that many of the people that are hurting are going to go out and buy a Mac mini or an iPhone mini like you indicated. The big notebook was overdue for an upgrade to match the look of the rest of the notebook line, and all the desktops should be updated over the next couple months. I see no reason to get too frustrated there.
I spoke to Apple representative yesterday and was told that my 17" MacBook Pro will not arrive until February 9, 2009, i.e. over a month from placing the order on the 6th. They could not tell me why it would take so long.
Interesting tid bit may be the fact that the new iLife'09 is on pre-order and according to the Apple rep, will be included in the 17" MBP. Maybe that's why the delay or maybe we will hear that it will also include Snow Leopard.
Does anyone hear anything else about the delay, except the MBP is on a slow boat from China? Speculations are welcome.
I can't believe that Apple would allow the 17-inch unibody matte screen to be any less "torsionally resistant" than the glossy glass version.
Schiller's keynote: "As you know our notebook displays have this beautiful glossy finish on them — really helps get dark, dark blacks and great color contrast. But some of our highest-end customers would really rather not have a glossy panel on the front. So we've also created for the first time with the 17" an anti-glare option. See I told you there were a few of them; a few of them out there. And, really, the only way we could do this was to remove that glass in the front and then build a metal bezel around it to hold the display. So it has the same display properties for anti-glare as our last 17" notebook. But I am going to show the glossy version because that's my favorite."
That quote is from the keynote at 1 hour 9 minutes.
I can't believe that Apple would allow the 17-inch unibody matte screen to be any less "torsionally resistant" than the glossy glass version.
Why not? Glass is a rigid material, and when combined with a curved aluminum shell the construction resembles that of an aircraft wing.
Take out the edge to edge glass surface and replace with a bit of aluminum at the border, and you lose this structural arrangement.
It's hardly the end of the world. The old 17" was quite good compared with typical notebook construction, and is probably less rigid even than the new 17" without the glass. Tolerances are lower now (parts have a tighter fit), and less plastic is used.
Don't overthink this. The 17" is a great machine either way.
Comments
But the way it was worded sounds like it could be a different treatment than just a diffuse texture, because there are very good non-matte antiglare treatments that computer companies seem to have forgotten about. The old glossy MacBook Pro screen had a lighter-duty version of this, some kind of odd diffractive coating, but better treatments are available.
Antiglare on glass is possible, but I'd be willing to bet that's not the option here. I am fairly sure it has no glass, as the aluminum bezel is indicating.
Anti-glare on glass is an optical coating like that used in camera lenses. It has been used in high-end CRT computer monitors for at least 25 years. I remember seeing this in some color IBM terminals at school. The resulting image quality is very high, but they smudge VERY easily and visibly, since any fingerprint oils change the diffraction characteristics of the coatings. A matte LCD does not smudge nearly as easily.
Structurally, I'm sure the regular, glass option is more rigid. I don't know if there are any long-term implications. The old MacBook Pro design did start to bend visbly with rough use. Some people have machines where there is a visible gap between the lower bezel and the screen. I never had this problem with my MBP, but I always treated it very gently and I especially avoided pushing the screen beyond its maximum angle.
The Air is definitely more rigid than the old Pro, but the bezel is quite wide so that might be part of it. Still, the hinge design for the Air and the new MacBooks is different from the old Pro's. There is no plastic between the hinge and the top shell; there is metal to metal contact at at least two points on each hinge. The shell itself appears to be more rigid.
My best guess is that the deglossed 17" MBP is stronger than the previous 17" MBP, but not quite as strong as the glossy version. Those who have any doubts should best wait till they can actually see one in person.
while durable, they are at times hard to clean, if oil ever gets on it. which is all the time, if you travel.
I get good results with cotton and distilled water. Don't over dampen the cotton, though. You don't want water running all over the place.
I usually do two passes, about once a month. If it's really dirty you probably need several. It's not a fast method, but it will definitely clean the screen with no risk of scratches and no solvents.
that's exactly the problem.
it's hard to find cotton balls on a plane when the kid next to me keep on pointing at the bikini girl dancing at the edges. why can't a simple t-shirt or my tie work.
with glass, even a paper napkin or that cheap square paper coaster would work.
oh well
paul
I get good results with cotton and distilled water. Don't over dampen the cotton, though. You don't want water running all over the place.
I usually do two passes, about once a month. If it's really dirty you probably need several. It's not a fast method, but it will definitely clean the screen with no risk of scratches and no solvents.
They told me the anti-glare option that I had ordered meant there was an additional bezel. Its not the continuous seamless glass.
They managed to change my order - I felt the glossy was better since I own a unibody mac and really like the seamless glass display. I don't care for glossy - like everyone knows you have to make an effort on many occasions to remove the reflections.
The difference in feel (quality) of unibody macs compared to the old construction is really massive IMHO. Nothing from dell (including precision - of which we have several) comes close.
You can't have glass on a matte screen as it would be glossy!
I was hoping that they were applying the anti-glare to the seamless glass. There are techniques that can apply super thin AR coatings to glass.
an anti-glare coating on the plastic polarizing front sheet can be very expensive, as the best ones are even scratch resistant.
for those who wear glasses, you know how expensive that anti scratch and anti-reflection coating is, upwards of $150 from better makers like zeiss or scheider. imagine how much bigger the surface area of a 17" screen versus the eyeglass lens.
you;re right, while you may want non glossy, a protective quality glass sure looks right and spinning that notebook a few degrees should not be that arduous.
paul
I was hoping that they were applying the anti-glare to the seamless glass. There are techniques that can apply super thin AR coatings to glass.
you;re right, while you may want non glossy, a protective quality glass sure looks right and spinning that notebook a few degrees should not be that arduous.
paul
That's true, but on the other hand a thin piece of 17" glass on a portable computer is kind of a new thing. I'm wondering how much of a drop would make it shatter, and what the equivalent damage to a non-glass machine would be.
I don't think the best durability choice is so obvious right now. I think people should go with their preference and not overthink it too much. Time will tell.
What are you supposed to do when the battery dies? All batteries die eventually. How much will it cost to replace it? CAN you replace it?
I'm confused...
What are you supposed to do when the battery dies? All batteries die eventually. How much will it cost to replace it? CAN you replace it?
Maybe if you took the time to read the thread, you wouldn't be so confused. :P
Yes you can replace the battery relatively easily yourself for as much as new batteries cost (we won't know this until some 3rd parties start making them) or have Apple replace it for $179.
Antiglare on glass is possible, but I'd be willing to bet that's not the option here. I am fairly sure it has no glass, as the aluminum bezel is indicating.
Anti-glare on glass is an optical coating like that used in camera lenses. It has been used in high-end CRT computer monitors for at least 25 years. I remember seeing this in some color IBM terminals at school. The resulting image quality is very high, but they smudge VERY easily and visibly, since any fingerprint oils change the diffraction characteristics of the coatings. A matte LCD does not smudge nearly as easily.
The best way to not get fingerprint oils on a screen is to not touch the screen. Keep in mind that a smooth surface is easier to clean once it does get smudged, people that are prone to touching the screen are going to get smudges on the matte screens too. I tend to carry single-use anti-reflective cloths to clean things like lenses or screens.
I find it to be so worthwhile to get the good smooth antiglare, it doesn't wash out the image like light on a matte surface does, and it cuts down on reflections that just plain glass has.
Worst recession in 100 years? Don't write stupid BS. Your hyperbole is self-discrediting.
The fact that Intel has had to revise its fourth-quarter guidance twice indicates how deeply the economic meltdown has damaged the semiconductor industry. It also reveals how hard it is for even conservative companies?Intel formally stopped doing mid-quarter updates in 2006?to figure out how badly they're being hurt.
Intel blamed the latest revision on weaker-than-expected demand, piling up in a chain reaction. Businesses are putting off upgrading to new computers until the economy and their finances improve. And consumers, singed by layoffs and falling home prices and stock portfolios, have scaled back their spending as well. In turn that has prompted PC makers to try to save money by burning through their existing inventories of chips instead of buying lots of new ones.
These trends have slammed chip makers since the downturn intensified in September, and now appears to be worsening.
It looks very nice! Not enough to make me upgrade just yet, and it needs a few extra features before I'm enticed, like a Blu-Ray DVD player/burner and an extra FW port. With the matte screen option it's nearly perfect. It would be nice if the keyboard was silver to match the bezel on the matte screen.
Even though I was really impressed that Apple offered a matte version (which I prefer) I did order the glossy one. Not having the protective glass on the matte was the dealbreaker for me.
One could say I sacrifice my eyes in order to save the MBP screen
Might buy a matte screen film later.
The fact that Intel has had to revise its fourth-quarter guidance twice indicates how deeply the economic meltdown has damaged the semiconductor industry. It also reveals how hard it is for even conservative companies?Intel formally stopped doing mid-quarter updates in 2006?to figure out how badly they're being hurt.
Intel blamed the latest revision on weaker-than-expected demand, piling up in a chain reaction. Businesses are putting off upgrading to new computers until the economy and their finances improve. And consumers, singed by layoffs and falling home prices and stock portfolios, have scaled back their spending as well. In turn that has prompted PC makers to try to save money by burning through their existing inventories of chips instead of buying lots of new ones.
These trends have slammed chip makers since the downturn intensified in September, and now appears to be worsening.
So what? That says nothing towards your statement of a 100 year recession. There's no indication of that yet.
I don't deny that there's hurt going on, but statements like yours do everyone a disservice by exaggerating it or pushing the hyperbole too far. It's that kind of overreaction that's going to cause more problems than it solves. I doubt that many of the people that are hurting are going to go out and buy a Mac mini or an iPhone mini like you indicated. The big notebook was overdue for an upgrade to match the look of the rest of the notebook line, and all the desktops should be updated over the next couple months. I see no reason to get too frustrated there.
Might buy a matte screen film later.
That won't work. The outer glass surface is too far from the LCD surface. All you will get is a blurry image.
Interesting tid bit may be the fact that the new iLife'09 is on pre-order and according to the Apple rep, will be included in the 17" MBP. Maybe that's why the delay or maybe we will hear that it will also include Snow Leopard.
Does anyone hear anything else about the delay, except the MBP is on a slow boat from China? Speculations are welcome.
maybe we will hear that it will also include Snow Leopard.
Schiller's keynote: "As you know our notebook displays have this beautiful glossy finish on them — really helps get dark, dark blacks and great color contrast. But some of our highest-end customers would really rather not have a glossy panel on the front. So we've also created for the first time with the 17" an anti-glare option. See I told you there were a few of them; a few of them out there. And, really, the only way we could do this was to remove that glass in the front and then build a metal bezel around it to hold the display. So it has the same display properties for anti-glare as our last 17" notebook. But I am going to show the glossy version because that's my favorite."
That quote is from the keynote at 1 hour 9 minutes.
http://events.apple.com.edgesuite.ne...ent/index.html
I can't believe that Apple would allow the 17-inch unibody matte screen to be any less "torsionally resistant" than the glossy glass version.
Why not? Glass is a rigid material, and when combined with a curved aluminum shell the construction resembles that of an aircraft wing.
Take out the edge to edge glass surface and replace with a bit of aluminum at the border, and you lose this structural arrangement.
It's hardly the end of the world. The old 17" was quite good compared with typical notebook construction, and is probably less rigid even than the new 17" without the glass. Tolerances are lower now (parts have a tighter fit), and less plastic is used.
Don't overthink this. The 17" is a great machine either way.