Apple's mini connector set to be part of DisplayPort standard

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Comments

  • Reply 61 of 74
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,392member
    Integrating ethernet into HDMI is a poor choice if that's the only way the device networks.



    I may want to utilize something like Homeplug AV ...if the ethernet isn't exposed separate from the AV signal I could run into problems.
  • Reply 62 of 74
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dlux View Post


    My apologies - I left off the flashing SARCASM tag. I'll try to accommodate your needs next time I point out the inconsistencies in arguments here.



    And that is the thing about sarcasm. Not really designed for the written word, only really useful when one can hear your tone of voice, see your body language or know you well enough.



    The flashing SARCASM tag was actually invented for use on message boards for fools who use sarcasm without thinking. You maybe should try it.
  • Reply 63 of 74
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


    It's not so simple, it does make a difference. Without access to the spec, it's hard to know for certain. The wiring does have an effect, because the standard has ways of defining what passes in terms of signal rate and signal quality.



    For example, with Cat 5, it may be the same cable, but 100Mb Ethernet only uses two pair of the wires, GigE uses all four pairs.



    You are right but I doubt that any Cat5 cable is actually sold anymore. Cat 5e or above has 4 pairs as standard.



    I would doubt very much that they would be updating the HDMI specs for future proofing and include Ethernet support that was not capable of at least Gig.
  • Reply 64 of 74
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


    It's not so simple, it does make a difference. Without access to the spec, it's hard to know for certain. The wiring does have an effect, because the standard has ways of defining what passes in terms of signal rate and signal quality.



    For example, with Cat 5, it may be the same cable, but 100Mb Ethernet only uses two pair of the wires, GigE uses all four pairs.



    Hey, I am not sure why we are assuming it is going to be copper anyway.



    Why not optical? When we are talking about A/V and computer cables is it not possible to have a much thinner TOSSLINK type cable?
  • Reply 65 of 74
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,951member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Murphster View Post


    You are right but I doubt that any Cat5 cable is actually sold anymore. Cat 5e or above has 4 pairs as standard.



    Silly me, I didn't use the right number. I don't know why you think that distinction matters, the cables have the same number of pairs are wired and used the exact same way regardless of whether it is Cat 5, 5e or 6. Even though there are four twisted pairs are in the cable, only two pair are actually used for data when in 100bT mode. All four are used for 1000bT.



    Quote:

    I would doubt very much that they would be updating the HDMI specs for future proofing and include Ethernet support that was not capable of at least Gig.



    It should, but the thing is, I don't understand why the release doesn't make that clear, it seems like a suspicious omission.
  • Reply 66 of 74
    dluxdlux Posts: 666member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Murphster View Post


    And that is the thing about sarcasm. Not really designed for the written word...



    Thank you for the clarification. Oh, and I shall pass that along to Oscar Wilde the next time we exchange letters.
  • Reply 67 of 74
    dluxdlux Posts: 666member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Murphster View Post


    Hey, I am not sure why we are assuming it is going to be copper anyway.



    Why not optical? When we are talking about A/V and computer cables is it not possible to have a much thinner TOSSLINK type cable?



    ***SARCASM*** Boy, I can't wait to see how much Monster will charge for that cable.



    My point is this: Either everyone implements CAT5e or above (to accommodate GigE), or they choose a lesser spec, in which case you'd be limited to 100Mbps which is pretty lame. To implement GigE-capable cabling it would have to be shielded to prevent alien crosstalk from the video and audio signals (and anything else they throw in the bundle). That drives up the cost for everyone to satisfy either a miniscule use-case or a meaningless marketing bullet point. OR... some cables don't end up supporting Ethernet and the consumer has to understand all the distinctions when they comparison-shop and purchase.



    As for optical - that's a non-starter. All devices would have to add the transceiver circuitry to the electronics AND include an even more expensive optical cable pair inside the jacket along with proper termination and testing. It's quite a bit more involved than S/PDIF and again addresses a small population of users. I don't think $100+ A/V cables, even from the discount sources, will be hot sellers.



    Let's not even mention that 10G Ethernet is close on the horizon for non-server machines. There's nothing like the smell of obsolescence in the morning...
  • Reply 68 of 74
    addaboxaddabox Posts: 12,665member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dlux View Post


    Thank you for the clarification. Oh, and I shall pass that along to Oscar Wilde the next time we exchange letters.



    And Jon Swift. I just realized that might have meant something different from what he was literally saying, but the fool didn't clearly label anything as sarcasm and given that he, you know, wrote it all down, it's impossible to tell for sure.
  • Reply 69 of 74
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,755member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by gastroboy View Post


    So this will be the display connector to end all display connectors?



    Pardon but I think I have heard that before.



    So when has technology ever stood still? I remember when VGA was introduced and was the latest greatest thing.



    As others pointed out, if anything display technology has stagnated. DP is WAY overdue, and is a much more intelligent solution then HDMI, VGA or DVI.



    Quote:

    For a start it doesn't even necessarily do the obvious of including audio in it.



    Try re-reading the spec. Support is there, Apple just isn't supporting it - for now at least.



    Mini Display Port is fully compatible with full sized display port. As others have pointed out, now there really is no reason to build hardware, especially laptops, with full sized display port. Display Port hasn't started to catch on yet, so it's a perfect time to establish the connector - heck, I still come across PC laptops with VGA. As for monitors, all it takes is a different cable. Monoprice.com is launching their first wave tomorrow. Within a couple months this will be a moot issue - another Internet tempest in a teapot (fueled by people who don't even own the product, but that shouldn't be surprising).



    Apple has often led the way. First reasonably priced home computer. First reasonably priced 5 1/4" floppy drive. First use of the 3.5" floppy, first to use SIMMs instead of individual DIP memory, first to implement SCSI in a desktop computer, first to introduce a general purpose peripheral bus (ADB) as a standard (Sun also used ADB), first to have multiple monitor support (8 in the Mac II! Support that allowed resolution independence, color depth independence, ability for windows to not only span multiple monitors but also span monitors of different color depths), first to standardize on USB (adopting a 2 year old Intel developed technology and singlehandedly converting the entire industry to it), first to (rightly) ditch floppy drives....



    That's just some of it. So all of that goes out the window because once upon a time Apple introduced ADC in an attempt to combine many of the things that people are (erroneously) accusing them of not doing with Mini display port?



    Are you for real?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism


    I'm amazed at all the animosity at Apple for dropping SL-DVI-D, DL-DVI-I, mini-DVI-D and micro-DVI-D in favour a single display connector for all their devices. Especially one that is considerably future-forward over the other available options.



    Easy - it's far easier to be snarky and negative then intelligent and forward thinking. Being negative and digging in with the status quo takes no thought or effort at all. It's why you can still buy PC's with PS2 ports, although they are finally becoming rare.
  • Reply 70 of 74
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dlux View Post


    Thank you for the clarification. Oh, and I shall pass that along to Oscar Wilde the next time we exchange letters.



    Again, you miss the point.



    I did say that sarcasm works in print when you know someone. When read a persons work you get to know the author in questions and learn to understand their words and meanings. I know what to expect from Oscar Wilde and therefore recognise the intended wit amongst his words.



    You my friend are not Oscar Wilde, you have not got the wit nor the prose to even consider comparing your example of sarcasm to anything that Wilde has written.



    You are unknown to me, you are writing on an internet forum and for all I know could be an 8 year old girl. You think you can make a statement that contains no wit, and just expect people to know you are being sarcastic and then when someone god forbid does not catch on to your hilarious meaning you insult them?



    Ever read a screenplay from an Oscar winning screenwriter? They quite often will place a (sarcasm) underneath the character name before a line of dialogue. This is because when written down sarcasm is not always easy to spot.



    [sarcasm]You are very clever using Oscar Wilde as an example, well done. [/sarcasm]
  • Reply 71 of 74
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,755member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dlux View Post


    I'm not sure if I would use the word 'onslaught'.



    Apple single handily brought acceptance and adoption of USB. What was their market share then compared to now?



    If they follow through and standardized across their line, it will be a substantial ripple in the pond...
  • Reply 72 of 74
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,392member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post


    Apple single handily brought acceptance and adoption of USB. What was their market share then compared to now?



    If they follow through and standardized across their line, it will be a substantial ripple in the pond...



    Bingo!



    And Apple had nowhere near the influence 9 years ago when they launched the iMac. They are now looked at as leaders and the decisive decision to move to DisplayPort will be looked at as key.



    It's funny though that when you read articles with the manufactuers of HDMI silicon they attempt to downplay the impact of DisplayPort.



    Hmmm let me see I have a technology that won't cost my company thousands in annual fees and device royalties.



    It's easier to incorporate into my product because it never uses more than 2V meaning I can easily integrate it into my South Bridge.



    It's not based on raster scan technology thus I don't have to use 4 lanes.



    Oh yeah...they're in denial. The only thing DisplayPort has to do is deliver most of the features on their internal roadmap. Next up should be daisychain and mini ports for cell phones and they'll be ready to take the market by storm.
  • Reply 73 of 74
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Hattig View Post


    Get a mini-Displayport to VGA adaptor, and then a scan convertor from VGA to S-Video.



    FFS your TV is 13 years old, do you really expect modern hardware to support it out of the box?



    1) BTDT. Doesn't work any better than a drunk's focus with print. I have both VGA & DVI-D adapters of Apple's. VGA isn't a good start b/c of its resolution limitations.



    2) No, but I do expect adapters to be made available by either Apple or the secondary market suppliers. None exist that work. The market right now is huge.



    I am impatient by nature but I hope that the adapters will come, to satisfy the market.
  • Reply 74 of 74
    dluxdlux Posts: 666member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post


    Apple single handily brought acceptance and adoption of USB. What was their market share then compared to now?



    If they follow through and standardized across their line, it will be a substantial ripple in the pond...



    I'm all for seeing (Mini) DisplayPort become the new standard for A/V interconnect. I bristle when I see the back of today's audio & video gear with 30+ years of legacy cruft cluttering the connection panel. I certainly hope I can buy a projector system at some point in the future with native DP so I won't have to deal with adapters. But at this point on the adoption curve, I wouldn't use the word 'onslaught' to describe the number of devices available or even on the horizon supporting DisplayPort. Hopefully that will change...
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