You can't sell a premium product in the midst of major economic depression and expect to continue gaining market share against discount competitors. Apple products are obviously superior, but at the end of the day, right now, the price is keeping a lot of people away.
How much of Acer's growth is due to the late 2007 acquisition of Gateway and the early 2008 purchase of Packard Bell? I don't see any talk of this in the article.
Apple's growth was organic, not buy-out driven. They could pay cash for Dell.
These numbers need to be adjusted for acquisitions!
What the hell is a MacTouch and were can I see a pix of it in the wild. How come the rumor sites don't mention it?
Your kidding right? Do a search on that term from this site alone will bring you up a big listing of forum posts.
Its widely expected.....at some point....that Apple will unveil either a tablet or a netbook of some manifestation soon. Of those who think it will be a tablet of some sort many have nicknamed it the "mactouch". I personally think its not going to be a tablet or a netbook but some new category of mobile that no one has thought up yet.
Are these number seasonally adjusted. I suspect Apple does a pretty good third quarter from students, so relative to everyone else, does their market share spike every year for back-to-school?
Where is the analysis? What do the numbers really mean?
Netbooks are a huge share of very little. They don't cost a lot, there's not a lot that can be made on them, and still require a similar level of engineering as a regular notebook even if many of the purchased parts are less expensive. I don't think Apple has actually ruled it out, the comments I've seen from the company make it look hedged, like they are keeping an eye on it, and will strike when and if they feel they need to, not because of peer pressure.
If the netbook market does hold rather than just a flash in the pan, then maybe Apple will do something, but fighting for market share on the low end is basically fighting to pick scraps off of bones.
So in short you're saying Apple will chase the puck when "they think" it becomes profitable.
The truth is Apple doesn't want to make an affordable computer. They never have and that will hurt them in this economy.
You either don't travel for your job or don't know what you're talking about from a business point of view (Yes I know you're a moderator). I love my Acer for travel and need nothing more than it when I'm on the road.
Yes I have my iPhone but it doesn't compare to a netbook when you are trying to update a spreadsheet for a presentaton or for that matter make changes to anything.
Let Apple figure out Copy and Paste and then maybe they'll be ready for he Netbook Market.
By the way. Acer ranks among the world's top five branded PC vendors (Google Acer).
So in short you're saying Apple will chase the puck when "they think" it becomes profitable.
Good one. But I've never liked Job's use of the "puck" metaphor. Apple trails on technology as often as they lead. They seem to do things on their own time.
There is a difference between a fad and a sustainable business.
Quote:
Yes I have my iPhone but it doesn't compare to a netbook when you are trying to update a spreadsheet for a presentaton or for that matter make changes to anything.
Just to make it clear, I didn't say the iPhone compares with a netbook, and I do not presume to suggest that.
Quote:
By the way. Acer ranks among the world's top five branded PC vendors (Google Acer).
I wouldn't call that picking at the bones.
What I meant by "picking at the bones" is profitability. We'll see how much money they actually make, a sale is meaningless to a business unless there is a profit in it.
Acer added 1MM units. Even if they are half the price of normal laptops, the question is if the added units made up for deteriation in average selling price.
From where I sit, a Netbook is an extra computer rather than a main computer. It might extend the time between purchase of a "main" computer, but it is a net benefit to both the consumer and the manufacturer (more money gets spent/more value is felt).
The market isn't as "nascent" as it was last August, and Apple is now trailing: every other manufacturer has a netbook offering (sans Toshiba?).
I think I represent Apple's current problem pretty well: my wife and I are not in a hurry to upgrade our Macs given the current economy. I am however happy to plunk down less than $500 on a new computer. This is a major problem to Apple, because it suggests that there is limited value (even to their high-end customers) for their premium product line.
Just to make it clear, I didn't say the iPhone compares with a netbook, and I do not presume to suggest that.
What I meant by "picking at the bones" is profitability. We'll see how much money they actually make, a sale is meaningless to a business unless there is a profit in it.
That's a short sighted as Steve's nascent comment.
Edit:
On a second topic. Windows 7 is going to run on current Netbooks. But obviously 88% of the Market share means Microsoft isn't as forward thinking as you and Steve Jobs.
That's a short sighted as Steve's nascent comment.
Edit:
On a second topic. Windows 7 is going to run on current Netbooks. But obviously 88% of the Market share means Microsoft isn't as forward thinking as you and Steve Jobs.
How is making a profit short-sighted? Selling a lot more units doesn't help much if you have to reduce the margins a lot to make that happen. Winning a popularity contest isn't necessarily the same as good business.
How is making a profit short-sighted? Selling a lot more units doesn't help much if you have to reduce the margins a lot to make that happen. Winning a popularity contest isn't necessarily the same as good business.
You win. You are not worth my time to argue with.
Obviously ACER is a big loser and they don't know we're in a recession and that selling $3,000 BLOAT BOOKS is the future.
I think Apple simply needs to do the Netbook/Mactouch right and make it affordable for Mac users not all users and we'll be fine.
Notice any word in particular? ... LINUX. I know ASUS said high returns of Linux while low return on Windows. I don't find that shocking at all as Linux is still half baked (I know I download a copy yearly just to try out). It doesn't meet what consumers can get with OS X or Windows. I know that most of Acer's Netbook sales are Windows XP and at Walmart. And to decry them as horrible is crazy, as they are about as equal as the $2500 Sony Vaio 11" Ultraportable I bought in 2004 in terms of specs (Minus DVD Drive).
Notice any word in particular? ... LINUX. I know ASUS said high returns of Linux while low return on Windows. I don't find that shocking at all as Linux is still half baked (I know I download a copy yearly just to try out). It doesn't meet what consumers can get with OS X or Windows. I know that most of Acer's Netbook sales are Windows XP and at Walmart. And to decry them as horrible is crazy, as they are about as equal as the $2500 Sony Vaio 11" Ultraportable I bought in 2004 in terms of specs (Minus DVD Drive).
You realize saying you download LINUX every year to try out is stating the obvious that you don't know what you're talking about.
Linux is OPEN SOURCE and there are many flavors of Linux, each with their own features.
If you don't know of what you speak don't put it into words. It just makes you sound (fill in the rest).
Obviously ACER is a big loser and they don't know we're in a recession and that selling $3,000 BLOAT BOOKS is the future.
Way to GO STEVE, YOU DA MAN.
You have a cute name there OldTimer.... but you really are sounding more and more troll-like.
"Bloat Books" ??
"You da man" A little tactless today, don't you think?
Your whole netbook 'argument' is not even particularly strong. Did you read the original post? Any of those figures sink in?
The whole armada of PC makers, together with their new "saviour", the low profit NetBook, managed to increase there sales by ..... a massive ONE percent. Even better in the US where the rise of the almighty NetBook has lead the charge DOWN by 10 percent.
Compare that with poor old timer Apple. Somehow, with a sick leader, no bloody NetBook strategy, no firesale prices, no mini-tower.... somehow.... probably by just being evil.... they have increased their Mac sales.... and their marketshare.
...I think Apple simply needs to do the Netbook/Mactouch right and make it affordable for Mac users not all users and we'll be fine.
hear, hear!
Quote:
fighting for market share on the low end is basically fighting to pick scraps off of bones.
didn't apple itself suggest the iPhone and iPodTouch are a version of a netbook, a powerful little computer that can browse, etc? how is that different from fighting for market share on the low end? I don't see any reason apple couldn't position a superior netbook at a price between the Touch and the Macbook. The company's given up hundreds of thousands of unit sales and billions of dollars of revenue by choosing to stay out of that not-nascent market.
You have a cute name there OldTimer.... but you really are sounding more and more troll-like.
"Bloat Books" ??
"You da man" A little tactless today, don't you think?
Your whole netbook 'argument' is not even particularly strong. Did you read the original post? Any of those figures sink in?
The whole armada of PC makers, together with their new "saviour", the low profit NetBook, managed to increase there sales by ..... a massive ONE percent. Even better in the US where the rise of the almighty NetBook has lead the charge DOWN by 10 percent.
Compare that with poor old timer Apple. Somehow, with a sick leader, no bloody NetBook strategy, no firesale prices, no mini-tower.... somehow.... probably by just being evil.... they have increased their Mac sales.... and their marketshare.
The entire point of my original posting is to say that Steve Jobs called the Netbook market nascent.
That in itself says that Apple missed the boat and will be following the rest of the market to put out a Netbook. Nascent by meaning is to say it's in its infancy or beginning to develop.
That is supposed to be Apple's claim to fame and interpet what is the next up and coming market. Steve Jobs comments make him sound as bad as Steve Ballmer when he discounted the iPhone as a toy. He is passed his time and needs to move on.
By the way Apple is currently trading at 79.30 after hours. Steve's not hurting anyone but the shareholders and they won't put up with it for very long. Especially with his lack of vision of late.
didn't apple itself suggest the iPhone and iPodTouch are a version of a netbook, a powerful little computer that can browse, etc? how is that different from fighting for market share on the low end? I don't see any reason apple couldn't position a superior netbook at a price between the Touch and the Macbook. The company's given up millions of sales and billions of dollars by choosing to stay out of that not-nascent market.
Because Steve said it isn't the right time. The market is still in it's infancy. Plus they can't figure out how to make a Netbook for less than $1000.
You have a cute name there OldTimer.... but you really are sounding more and more troll-like.
"Bloat Books" ??
"You da man" A little tactless today, don't you think?
Your whole netbook 'argument' is not even particularly strong. Did you read the original post? Any of those figures sink in?
The whole armada of PC makers, together with their new "saviour", the low profit NetBook, managed to increase there sales by ..... a massive ONE percent. Even better in the US where the rise of the almighty NetBook has lead the charge DOWN by 10 percent.
Compare that with poor old timer Apple. Somehow, with a sick leader, no bloody NetBook strategy, no firesale prices, no mini-tower.... somehow.... probably by just being evil.... they have increased their Mac sales.... and their marketshare.
Your comment in itself makes you "Trollish". Lack of Tact seems to be a prerequisite for posting in this room. Lack of knowledge is the norm here.
Apple has put out nothing innovative since the iPhone and Touch.
They are riding a wave and their latest round of overpriced Notebooks and $2000 Monitor seem to indicate that they don't know the market anymore.
The entire point of my original posting is to say that Steve Jobs called the Netbook market nascent. Nascent by meaning is to say it's in its infancy or beginning to develop.
Fine. So he was right!
Quote:
That in itself says that Apple missed the boat
Can you explain exactly what they have missed? All I can see, from these Gartner figures, is that Apple have maintained their prices and GAINED market share while the PC guys have lowered prices (and profits!) and LOST market share.
Perhaps Apple intends to catch the next boat.
Quote:
and will be following the rest of the market to put out a Netbook.
Comments
Apple is doooomed.
Yep, anytime now.
Apple's growth was organic, not buy-out driven. They could pay cash for Dell.
These numbers need to be adjusted for acquisitions!
What the hell is a MacTouch and were can I see a pix of it in the wild. How come the rumor sites don't mention it?
Your kidding right? Do a search on that term from this site alone will bring you up a big listing of forum posts.
Its widely expected.....at some point....that Apple will unveil either a tablet or a netbook of some manifestation soon. Of those who think it will be a tablet of some sort many have nicknamed it the "mactouch". I personally think its not going to be a tablet or a netbook but some new category of mobile that no one has thought up yet.
Where is the analysis? What do the numbers really mean?
Netbooks are a huge share of very little. They don't cost a lot, there's not a lot that can be made on them, and still require a similar level of engineering as a regular notebook even if many of the purchased parts are less expensive. I don't think Apple has actually ruled it out, the comments I've seen from the company make it look hedged, like they are keeping an eye on it, and will strike when and if they feel they need to, not because of peer pressure.
If the netbook market does hold rather than just a flash in the pan, then maybe Apple will do something, but fighting for market share on the low end is basically fighting to pick scraps off of bones.
So in short you're saying Apple will chase the puck when "they think" it becomes profitable.
The truth is Apple doesn't want to make an affordable computer. They never have and that will hurt them in this economy.
You either don't travel for your job or don't know what you're talking about from a business point of view (Yes I know you're a moderator). I love my Acer for travel and need nothing more than it when I'm on the road.
Yes I have my iPhone but it doesn't compare to a netbook when you are trying to update a spreadsheet for a presentaton or for that matter make changes to anything.
Let Apple figure out Copy and Paste and then maybe they'll be ready for he Netbook Market.
By the way. Acer ranks among the world's top five branded PC vendors (Google Acer).
I wouldn't call that picking at the bones.
So in short you're saying Apple will chase the puck when "they think" it becomes profitable.
Good one. But I've never liked Job's use of the "puck" metaphor. Apple trails on technology as often as they lead. They seem to do things on their own time.
There is a difference between a fad and a sustainable business.
Yes I have my iPhone but it doesn't compare to a netbook when you are trying to update a spreadsheet for a presentaton or for that matter make changes to anything.
Just to make it clear, I didn't say the iPhone compares with a netbook, and I do not presume to suggest that.
By the way. Acer ranks among the world's top five branded PC vendors (Google Acer).
I wouldn't call that picking at the bones.
What I meant by "picking at the bones" is profitability. We'll see how much money they actually make, a sale is meaningless to a business unless there is a profit in it.
From where I sit, a Netbook is an extra computer rather than a main computer. It might extend the time between purchase of a "main" computer, but it is a net benefit to both the consumer and the manufacturer (more money gets spent/more value is felt).
The market isn't as "nascent" as it was last August, and Apple is now trailing: every other manufacturer has a netbook offering (sans Toshiba?).
I think I represent Apple's current problem pretty well: my wife and I are not in a hurry to upgrade our Macs given the current economy. I am however happy to plunk down less than $500 on a new computer. This is a major problem to Apple, because it suggests that there is limited value (even to their high-end customers) for their premium product line.
Maybe it is a good time for SJ to step down.
Just to make it clear, I didn't say the iPhone compares with a netbook, and I do not presume to suggest that.
What I meant by "picking at the bones" is profitability. We'll see how much money they actually make, a sale is meaningless to a business unless there is a profit in it.
That's a short sighted as Steve's nascent comment.
Edit:
On a second topic. Windows 7 is going to run on current Netbooks. But obviously 88% of the Market share means Microsoft isn't as forward thinking as you and Steve Jobs.
That's a short sighted as Steve's nascent comment.
Edit:
On a second topic. Windows 7 is going to run on current Netbooks. But obviously 88% of the Market share means Microsoft isn't as forward thinking as you and Steve Jobs.
How is making a profit short-sighted? Selling a lot more units doesn't help much if you have to reduce the margins a lot to make that happen. Winning a popularity contest isn't necessarily the same as good business.
How is making a profit short-sighted? Selling a lot more units doesn't help much if you have to reduce the margins a lot to make that happen. Winning a popularity contest isn't necessarily the same as good business.
You win. You are not worth my time to argue with.
Obviously ACER is a big loser and they don't know we're in a recession and that selling $3,000 BLOAT BOOKS is the future.
Way to GO STEVE, YOU DA MAN.
Ummmmmmmmmmmmm do some of you realize that Netbooks have a high return rate?
Linux based Netbooks stinking up the joint
I think Apple simply needs to do the Netbook/Mactouch right and make it affordable for Mac users not all users and we'll be fine.
Notice any word in particular? ... LINUX. I know ASUS said high returns of Linux while low return on Windows. I don't find that shocking at all as Linux is still half baked (I know I download a copy yearly just to try out). It doesn't meet what consumers can get with OS X or Windows. I know that most of Acer's Netbook sales are Windows XP and at Walmart. And to decry them as horrible is crazy, as they are about as equal as the $2500 Sony Vaio 11" Ultraportable I bought in 2004 in terms of specs (Minus DVD Drive).
Notice any word in particular? ... LINUX. I know ASUS said high returns of Linux while low return on Windows. I don't find that shocking at all as Linux is still half baked (I know I download a copy yearly just to try out). It doesn't meet what consumers can get with OS X or Windows. I know that most of Acer's Netbook sales are Windows XP and at Walmart. And to decry them as horrible is crazy, as they are about as equal as the $2500 Sony Vaio 11" Ultraportable I bought in 2004 in terms of specs (Minus DVD Drive).
You realize saying you download LINUX every year to try out is stating the obvious that you don't know what you're talking about.
Linux is OPEN SOURCE and there are many flavors of Linux, each with their own features.
If you don't know of what you speak don't put it into words. It just makes you sound (fill in the rest).
Apple is doooomed.
1996 called...
Obviously ACER is a big loser and they don't know we're in a recession and that selling $3,000 BLOAT BOOKS is the future.
Way to GO STEVE, YOU DA MAN.
You have a cute name there OldTimer.... but you really are sounding more and more troll-like.
"Bloat Books" ??
"You da man" A little tactless today, don't you think?
Your whole netbook 'argument' is not even particularly strong. Did you read the original post? Any of those figures sink in?
The whole armada of PC makers, together with their new "saviour", the low profit NetBook, managed to increase there sales by ..... a massive ONE percent. Even better in the US where the rise of the almighty NetBook has lead the charge DOWN by 10 percent.
Compare that with poor old timer Apple. Somehow, with a sick leader, no bloody NetBook strategy, no firesale prices, no mini-tower.... somehow.... probably by just being evil.... they have increased their Mac sales.... and their marketshare.
...I think Apple simply needs to do the Netbook/Mactouch right and make it affordable for Mac users not all users and we'll be fine.
hear, hear!
fighting for market share on the low end is basically fighting to pick scraps off of bones.
didn't apple itself suggest the iPhone and iPodTouch are a version of a netbook, a powerful little computer that can browse, etc? how is that different from fighting for market share on the low end? I don't see any reason apple couldn't position a superior netbook at a price between the Touch and the Macbook. The company's given up hundreds of thousands of unit sales and billions of dollars of revenue by choosing to stay out of that not-nascent market.
You have a cute name there OldTimer.... but you really are sounding more and more troll-like.
"Bloat Books" ??
"You da man" A little tactless today, don't you think?
Your whole netbook 'argument' is not even particularly strong. Did you read the original post? Any of those figures sink in?
The whole armada of PC makers, together with their new "saviour", the low profit NetBook, managed to increase there sales by ..... a massive ONE percent. Even better in the US where the rise of the almighty NetBook has lead the charge DOWN by 10 percent.
Compare that with poor old timer Apple. Somehow, with a sick leader, no bloody NetBook strategy, no firesale prices, no mini-tower.... somehow.... probably by just being evil.... they have increased their Mac sales.... and their marketshare.
The entire point of my original posting is to say that Steve Jobs called the Netbook market nascent.
That in itself says that Apple missed the boat and will be following the rest of the market to put out a Netbook. Nascent by meaning is to say it's in its infancy or beginning to develop.
That is supposed to be Apple's claim to fame and interpet what is the next up and coming market. Steve Jobs comments make him sound as bad as Steve Ballmer when he discounted the iPhone as a toy. He is passed his time and needs to move on.
By the way Apple is currently trading at 79.30 after hours. Steve's not hurting anyone but the shareholders and they won't put up with it for very long. Especially with his lack of vision of late.
hear, hear!
didn't apple itself suggest the iPhone and iPodTouch are a version of a netbook, a powerful little computer that can browse, etc? how is that different from fighting for market share on the low end? I don't see any reason apple couldn't position a superior netbook at a price between the Touch and the Macbook. The company's given up millions of sales and billions of dollars by choosing to stay out of that not-nascent market.
Because Steve said it isn't the right time. The market is still in it's infancy. Plus they can't figure out how to make a Netbook for less than $1000.
You have a cute name there OldTimer.... but you really are sounding more and more troll-like.
"Bloat Books" ??
"You da man" A little tactless today, don't you think?
Your whole netbook 'argument' is not even particularly strong. Did you read the original post? Any of those figures sink in?
The whole armada of PC makers, together with their new "saviour", the low profit NetBook, managed to increase there sales by ..... a massive ONE percent. Even better in the US where the rise of the almighty NetBook has lead the charge DOWN by 10 percent.
Compare that with poor old timer Apple. Somehow, with a sick leader, no bloody NetBook strategy, no firesale prices, no mini-tower.... somehow.... probably by just being evil.... they have increased their Mac sales.... and their marketshare.
Your comment in itself makes you "Trollish". Lack of Tact seems to be a prerequisite for posting in this room. Lack of knowledge is the norm here.
Apple has put out nothing innovative since the iPhone and Touch.
They are riding a wave and their latest round of overpriced Notebooks and $2000 Monitor seem to indicate that they don't know the market anymore.
The entire point of my original posting is to say that Steve Jobs called the Netbook market nascent. Nascent by meaning is to say it's in its infancy or beginning to develop.
Fine. So he was right!
That in itself says that Apple missed the boat
Can you explain exactly what they have missed? All I can see, from these Gartner figures, is that Apple have maintained their prices and GAINED market share while the PC guys have lowered prices (and profits!) and LOST market share.
Perhaps Apple intends to catch the next boat.
and will be following the rest of the market to put out a Netbook.
Why? (see above)