Apple well-positioned to race forward while Jobs sidelined

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  • Reply 41 of 51
    vineavinea Posts: 5,585member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Janus View Post


    I downloaded the beta and I use it a good deal now. Aside from the daily BSOD, it's a very well-done OS and I actually think the bastard love-child of Dock and Taskbar (Dockbar?) works better than the OS X Dock for serious multitaskers.



    Win7 is nice. Of course it's what Vista should have been more like at launch.



    Quote:

    I'm a life-long Apple user, but Windows 7 is the first Windows that I feel is "good enough."



    Jeez, 95 was good enough for 90% of folks in comparison the MacOS. Apple's largest UI advantage was against Windows 3.1.



    Quote:

    Given the growing price differences between Macs and PCs, I won't be able to recommend Macs to people with the same enthusiasm I used to. And if current price trends continue (unless Apple does something great with 10.6 or 10.7), my next computer down the line may very well be a VAIO or a ThinkPad.



    Enjoy. The price delta between a MB/MBP and a VAIO and ThinkPad aren't all that much. Even between the Inspiron 13 and a MB aren't all that great.



    Quote:

    Gee, sounds kind of like Apple a decade ago... companies can turn around and Apple can choose to ignore them at its own peril.



    Until Steve came along. So the real question is whether his corporate culture will last.



    Quote:

    And that's where Apple is screwing up the worst by refusing to make computers at prices the current recession market will bear.



    That would be returning to the bad old days. Apple cannot compete on price. You're asking it to compete against other companies' strengths. That's a big losing proposition.



    Quote:

    It's great that Apple can brag of huge "revenue share" but developers don't sit around and think "oh wow, their revenue share is huge," they think "how many computers are out there?"



    And mindshare. But in terms of market size, Apple is "big enough" and growing larger.



    Quote:

    And it was hard enough to convince cash-strapped schools to buy $1299 Macs compared to $999 PCs, but when the PCs are $599 or even $499? Let's just say it's a tough sell for Apple Account Executives right now, who have spent so much time extolling the virtues of 1:1 educational computing (1:1 ratio for students and computers, ie computers for all) to try and tell their clients that 1 Mac is worth 2 Dells in a 1:1 environment. Yes, Mac sales are doing better than ever, but that sales momentum has been crushed along with the American economy.



    The TCO is lower for the Mac. We have both macs and PCs and our mac group is 4 guys. Our PC staff is much much larger.



    Quote:

    But lately--I don't know why--Apple has gone too far. I certainly HOPE they have something great cooking in their labs, because right now their corporate intransigence has grown just as the gap between their products and their competitors has shrank



    Corporate intransigence? Yeah, sky falling...Apple is teh doomed.



    Quote:

    (iPhone vs WinMo is a no-brainer, but iPhone vs Pre changes things.



    Changes what? Be concise.



    Quote:

    And OS X vs XP+Vista is another no-brainer, but Windows 7 has effectively closed the gap as far as most would-be Windows deserters are concerned).



    Would-be windows deserters leave the platform for a variety of reasons and frankly that gap has never been all THAT wide from a UI perspective.



    From an OS perspective, it's Windows vs Unix. At the core unix is better, it's just a pain in the ass to use. Until now.



    From an application perspective, the OSX apps are more elegant and typically have better workflow.



    Quote:

    If this is the fault of Steve Jobs, then it is time for him to go anyway. Maybe get someone whose computer usage habits are a bit more 21st century, who would (for just one example) realize that a smartphone shipping without an IM app included is ludicrous.



    Yah, okay. Maybe we should make you iCEO?
  • Reply 42 of 51
    e1618978e1618978 Posts: 6,075member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by FuturePastNow View Post


    So they're not making a Zune phone. Whoop dee do



    "if there is a future for the zune" - it was an answer to a question about Balmer throwing in the towel on the Zune (and not just as a phone), which he has.
  • Reply 43 of 51
    cubertcubert Posts: 728member
    Supposedly, Cook is a fitness freak and bikes hundreds of miles a week. He also works 14 hour days.



    And he never sleeps. He's a robot so we don't need to worry about his health.
  • Reply 44 of 51
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Cubert View Post


    Supposedly, Cook is a fitness freak and bikes hundreds of miles a week. He also works 14 hour days.



    And he never sleeps. He's a robot so we don't need to worry about his health.



    Surprisingly, being a fitness freak is no indicator whether one will or will not get cancer.
  • Reply 45 of 51
    buzdotsbuzdots Posts: 452member
    The way i see it, all you guys that talk doom and gloom about Steve and Apple, and how Microsoft is "making a comeback", and Apple has/is losing it's edge, and Acer is taking market share are looking at things backassward.



    You guys better hope that Apple keeps flying high, cause if Apple goes down the tubes, all the rest of those jackasses won't have anybody to innovate for them and steal from. And certainaly no one to force them to be creative



    BTW - any of you guys ever bought an Acer? I have, THEY SUCK! and anybody who would buy one deserves the piece of crap they got!



    Yeah, I'm hardline.
  • Reply 46 of 51
    While investors probably should plan their world on worst case assumptions wrt whether Jobs returns or not, they should also ponder who looks better than Apple on a long-term basis in terms of differentiated products, diversified revenue sources, depth of product pipeline, quality/depth of management team, operating margins, profits, cashflow, cash reserves and absence of debt?



    I may be a simpleton, but I think that a larger factor is at work in terms of the punishing that Apple's stock has gotten over the past several months.



    For lack of a better term, I call it the Yin-Yang of Apple's Reality Distortion Field, something that I blogged about in a post called:



    Punishing the Wizard: On Apple and Steve Jobs

    http://thenetworkgarden.com/weblog/2...teve-jobs.html



    Check it out if interested.



    Cheers,



    Mark
  • Reply 47 of 51
    adjeiadjei Posts: 738member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by italiankid View Post


    Right now Apple will continue to run as normal... But without Jobs, Apple lacks innovation and will be considered just an another computer maker like HP or Dell.



    When Jobs came back to Apple, he reinvented it. He innovated. Without him, there is no Apple.



    Apple sits at about 9% marketshare because of Vista.



    With Vista almost out the doors and with Windows 7 promising to be the best OS, Microsoft has made... it will be very tough for Apple to grow... WHY?



    1) If Windows 7 is as good as the reviewers say.... Apple is in trouble.

    2) With PCs using the latest and greatest hardware... they will have an edge over Mac.



    NO JOBS = TROUBLES FOR APPLE!



    LOL, we heard the same crap before Vista was released, that was supposed to be the best OS up to date.
  • Reply 48 of 51
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post


    "if there is a future for the zune" - it was an answer to a question about Balmer throwing in the towel on the Zune (and not just as a phone), which he has.



    You're reading an awful lot into that little "if."
  • Reply 49 of 51
    The fact that Apple pulled out of MacWorld is the most telling sign of things to come you will ever see from the company. On this surface this seems to mearly mean that Steve Jobs may be sick, wants to spend time with his family, whatever the reason it doesn't really matter because the result is the same. No Steve at Apple in the near future. Maybe not today, maybe not in six months, maybe not even in a year, but soon. The scope of this is profound.



    1. If you are Steve Jobs and you are the only human being in the world that REALLY knows what is about to happen then you have to assess your priorities. Do you spend the rest of your time left building the team and the tools to continue the march on MS without you? Do you say "screw it" and move Apple into another field entirely? Do you assume the company will go down in flames without you and burn everything to the ground and leave nothing left to destroy your longest standing enemies? Do you turn philanthropist and dedicate yourself and your company to the good of Earth? If history means anything, Steve Jobs can never be trusted to do anything but the grandest of egomaniacal plans. Sometimes you get the Sistine Chapel, sometimes you get the Titanic.



    2. Apple isn't sticking with computer tech. Now most people know this on some level but don't expand on what that means. Apple survives solely on building ecosystems that feed back into itself. Without this they would have been ground into the dirt by now. To carry this practice into the future they are going to need products. Lots of products. Unfortunatly, Apple doesn't make a lot of products and and been very coy about introducing new lines due to the fear of failures eroding the public perception of the company's genius in product design. How do you combat this? How do you take the best computer designers in the industry and move them into non-computer related markets? If you're Apple, you don't. You make the other industries move to making products your people know how to dominate. Example 1: iphone. Don't make a phone that does computer tasks, make a computer that does phone tasks. Everyone else: please follow. Example 2: Apple TV. Don't make a settop box that can connect to itunes, make a computer that does nothing else but itunes. Example 3: The Apple Television. Now this product doesn't exist you say? Yes, it does. Simply combine products one and two. You will see the beginning of this next year at CES. This, will be Steve Jobs swan song.



    3. Steve Jobs isn't crazy, but he does play one on TV. Steve Jobs biggest problem between now and the grave is Steve. How does a man like this exit when the time comes that he really does want to leave? Everyone seems entirely too focused on whether or not Apple is hiding the fact that he is immensely sick to check on whether or not he is really sick at all. Obviously by his appearance he HAS been sick but what if the details about this are kept hidden and the public is simply ALLOWED TO BELEIVE that he has one foot in the grave. Technically this is not lying but would give the company and HIS STEVENESS an excellent opportunity for THE GRAND EXIT.



    THE GRAND EXIT



    Now this will be something to see. Steve Jobs and his ego at their best. If Steve was going to leave the company based on a singular product he would have done so after the release of the iphone. The iphone was a stunning success, a technological marvel, and will cement his place in tech history. He could have left and Apple would have shuddered but moved on to continue their dominance of the tech world's mindshare. He didn't. He let the bright lights around the iphone dim somewhat. He let the Apple TV seem to flounder a bit. He let blu-ray pass by. He let netbooks pass by. Tv's. Touch screens. Gaming. Nothing but toes in the water for Apple. Why? Because Steve has something bigger in mind. The iphone? A remote control for the big idea. The Mac? A portal of entry for the big idea. The Apple TV? An experiment for the big idea. Multitouch? Nothing more than a part of whats coming. Mobile Me? Also an experiment, but of the most grand implications imaginable. Apple doesn't want to be your place to buy gadgets. Apple doesn't want to be your place to buy programs. Above all, Apple doesn't want to be your place for stuff. What Apple wants, is to be your place to buy ideas.



    Apple assumes you are generally an idiot but some idiots (mainly people that purchase Apple products) can be forgiven and therefore worthy of being steered to the promised land. This promised land being Apple's soon to be dominance of data. What computer are your using? Won't matter, your data is going through an Apple service. What kind of phone are your using? won't matter, it's connected to Apple's cloud. What kind of tv do you have? Won't matter, its got chips inside compatable with Apple's design to connect it to Apple's cloud online. The iphone as your remote control. The Apple TV is a set of chips inside everyone's new HD's. And Apple doesn't even have to make it. The TV people are already starting to do it for them. The Mac? The Mac is nothing if not for the software. This software will remains Apple's baby. And it will be EVERYWHERE. How? Just connect your new wi-fi HD tv you just bought to the internet and log into Apple's new online serive. Use your multitouch iphone to control everything your see on screen. Log into itunes, which is now an online locker for all of your media no matter where you are. Connect to your favorite website using Safari, which is now a non-client located web browser. Talk to your friends with ichat using the camera you plugged into that USB port on your TV. Buy and play your favorite game since it's running on their system and simply sending the display bits and controls back and forth now eliminating the need for a standalone computer at all.



    This is the future of computing and Apple knows it. Microsoft knows it. Larry Ellison has known it for 30 years. Steve Jobs knows it, and he is going to take everyone kicking and screaming right into the thick of it before he heads into the sunset. And we will all be the better for it, whether you like him or not.
  • Reply 50 of 51
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by vinea View Post








    Enjoy. The price delta between a MB/MBP and a VAIO and ThinkPad aren't all that much. Even between the Inspiron 13 and a MB aren't all that great.



    It's not just price, it's configurations and options...



    There is no shortage of crappy computers out there, but a VAIO and a ThinkPad will give me very well-engineered computers (in some cases the ThinkPad outdoes Apple, with features like the internal roll-cage, and its spill-resistant keyboards that channel liquids spilled into the keyboard out of the case. And I remember seeing ads for ThinkPads with the equivalent of Apple's Sudden Motion Sensor HDD protection long before Apple had it). Oh, and they have ports! delicious delicious ports that Steve has deemed unnecessary on my MacBook ! FireWire, ExpressCard, Meanwhile Sony's latest VAIO has a display coating that magically seems to offer the best of both worlds in terms of glossy color saturation and anti-glare of matte. Oh and it's in 16:9 widescreen...at an optional higher resolution to boot!



    Another nice touch - almost all PC manufacturers offer accidental damage protection, aka stupidity insurance as an option. As a very accident-prone user, I would love this peace of mind. As a former Apple Campus Rep, I can tell you how many college students picked the ThinkPad over the MacBook for the security of accidental damage protection.



    You are right that ThinkPads and VAIOs are not much cheaper than MacBooks--if they're cheaper at all. But they offer more choices and equally sound engineering and both have their own unique sense of style. Dells they are not.





    Quote:

    Yah, okay. Maybe we should make you iCEO?



    Yes that would be ideal.
  • Reply 51 of 51
    janusjanus Posts: 17member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by pembroke View Post


    Also, I understand it took a great deal of convincing by other visionaries to convince Steve about the potential of the MP3 market and the iPod. So, it's not just Steve, there are others at Apple who have made Steve into a visionary, Steve has been the face of the vision.



    Yes, this is correct. In the era before Combo Drives and SuperDrives, Apple was pushing DVD-ROM drives and DV editing when the market was clamoring for CD-RW drives. And of course with the aforementioned lack of choice in Apple's offerings (you will take CD-ROM or DVD-ROM, and that's that), this hurt Apple.



    Steve has an uncanny sense of what consumers want a lot of the time, but consider this:
    • Steve Jobs is a billionaire (result: not feeling the recession pain)

    • Steve Jobs is, in Apple's own educational marketing parlance, a "digital immigrant," not a "digital native" (result: his conception of computing is not wedded to networking and messaging in the same way it would be for someone younger. If he had any semblance of the importance of IM/SMS and multitasking with them and other activities to modern users, he wouldn't have given them such short shrift in the iPhone, and kept them that way. They've left a big hole for Palm to exploit, which they shortly will.

    • Steve Jobs is America-centric (result: pricing, marketing, localization efforts outside of Western/English-speaking countries are mediocre at best)

    In short, Steve is too rich and yes, too old to always understand the wants and needs of consumers, especially younger ones, outside of the United States. And on that note...



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by gastroboy View Post


    How wrong can you get!



    Have you been anywhere in the "developing world"? Apple is practically non-existent and basically ignores the occupants. They don't have the readies, simple as that.



    People buy what they can afford and have serviced and in these countries it is cheap clones.



    I've lived in China and now am Iiving in India. These countries have huge economies, and a considerable population of eligible consumers within that, but Apple is not reaching out to them. The only people who you see in Apple stores actually buying things are Western expats. Someday these countries will have a larger economy than the United States, and it will be a market Apple has completely missed.
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