Chip complex delaying Apple's new iMac line, says analyst

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  • Reply 41 of 154
    So any guesses when the Mac Pro will get updated? I know it's waiting on the next generation of chips from intel, when is that supposed to be? I have been waiting for months and not having a new machine is killing me.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hillstones View Post


    Having 8 cores is useless



    As someone who runs software that uses all eight cores, I can't disagree strongly enough.



    Sure, software that uses all eight cores isn't *common*, but it does exist. And it tends to be the software that people buy high end hardware for.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hillstones View Post


    So where is your proof? What is an iPhone light leak? I have seen many first generation iPhones (and I own one) and there is no such thing as an iPhone light leak.



    Is it so hard to google "iphone light leak"? I did that and I saw people reporting the problem, so it sure looks like there is such thing.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mstone View Post


    I agree. They need to upgrade the whole line and continue to differentiate the iMac and Mac Pro by putting more power in the Pro too. I guess at some point though even the lowest configuration is going to be plenty powerful enough for 90% of the buyers. Only video editors, engineers or scientists will have a need for high end super computers.



    And oddly enough...musicians.
  • Reply 42 of 154
    After reading the article, I thik that it doesn't tell us anything.



    It says... "maybe".. "maybe"... Nothing clear.



    So, being optimist... Would be possible to see new iMacs Tomorrow? It's the day when apple announces iLife09 include with all macs.. and it's the lastest tuesday of January... And there there have been reports of new iMacs for January for months... why not?



    Thinking new iMacs in Late March is hopeless, because I wanna get one since December... What should I Do? If tomorrow nothing happens, maybe I'll buy the iMac... March/April isn't near...
  • Reply 43 of 154
    When was the last iMac refresh? I know the last redesign was in late 2007.
  • Reply 44 of 154
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 5,801member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JavaCowboy View Post


    When was the last iMac refresh? I know the last redesign was in late 2007.



    April 28th, 2008 was the last iMac update....
  • Reply 45 of 154
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hillstones View Post


    The reason the G3 and G4's were upgradable was because there were faster processors readily available, and priced right for upgrades. The G5's were not upgradable because the processors were too expensive and the cooling systems were too advanced. Who would want to mess around with the liquid cooling system if they upgraded their G5? Also, the G5 only topped out at 2.7 GHz, so it wasn't that much faster than the lower end G5.



    The G3 and G4 market was much different. There were many upgrade options available for a wide variety of Power Macs. The upgrade process was much easier too.



    The Mac Pro hasn't seen that much of a difference in processor speeds, so there is no upgrade value. I am also assuming the Intel chips used in the Mac Pro are quite expensive too.



    Granted, but my point remains.



    The only computer they sell that's "upgradeable" in any serious fashion is the Mac Pro and a lot of people buy it for that reason. However in recent years, there have been few if any upgrade options for the device. I can max out my memory and buy new hard drives once in a while but that's almost the entirety of it so far.



    I guess what I'm saying is that if Apple doesn't come out with a video card upgrade path so we can use the new displays as well as a drop in processor upgrade or two at some point, there will be a lot of angry Mac Pro users out there. It also flies in the face of any kind of reasonable action on Apple's side to advertise an upgradeable computer that is rarely if ever actually upgradeable.



    One doesn't expect to spend premium prices for a computer that less than a year later cannot use the latest screens provided by the same company for instance. We will have to wait and see what Apple does in this regard, but so far all indications are bad.



    Apple is generally a good company, but I wouldn't be surprised in the least if they came out with a new form factor for the Mac Pro next week, that rules out anything other than third party or grey market upgrades for the current Mac Pro, making the whole "upgradeable" notion a kind of bad joke. They have done things like this before because they think of their products as "one-offs" for the most part.
  • Reply 46 of 154
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 5,801member
    Since they're standard Intel Xeon processors you could just buy some processors and stick them in yes? Of course as long as the new CPUs use the same pin layout architecture. And I don't think its up to Apple to develop video cards. You can blame that on ATI and NVIDIA.
  • Reply 47 of 154
    hudson1hudson1 Posts: 800member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post




    The only computer they sell that's "upgradeable" in any serious fashion is the Mac Pro and a lot of people buy it for that reason. However in recent years, there have been few if any upgrade options for the device. I can max out my memory and buy new hard drives once in a while but that's almost the entirety of it so far.



    My general impression of why people bought MacPros has been different. Hasn't it been more the ability to have up to four HDDs, or multiple optical drives, or multiple video cards, or can be bought with Mac OS X Server pre-loaded, or can hold up to 8GB RAM? And, quite importantly, it can be configured with FibreChannel. None of those possible features are available on an iMac. Now I suppose if you don't need any of them then there probably isn't much point to buying a MacPro.
  • Reply 48 of 154
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post


    Granted, but my point remains.



    The only computer they sell that's "upgradeable" in any serious fashion is the Mac Pro and a lot of people buy it for that reason. However in recent years, there have been few if any upgrade options for the device. I can max out my memory and buy new hard drives once in a while but that's almost the entirety of it so far.



    When the new Mac Pro comes out it will have a new video card to support Apple's new standard, the DisplayPort. This will be an off the shelf part that can be plugged into you current Intel Mac Pro (not sure if the G5's and before have the same PCI architecture, if they do then ok for them too).



    Unless they get ATI (AMD) or NVIDIA to produce a card that has dual DisplayPort and DVI ports they will delay this upgrade until the 30" Cinema Display is migrated to DisplayPort to time the upgrades to all happen at the same time.



    So my current Mac Pro has 2 quad core 3Ghz processors 5GB ram, Dual GeForce 7300 GT's driving dual 30" Cinema Displays. I also have 4 Drive bays full. Two HDD's in Raid 1 drives as main boot, 1 large bootable drive Carbon Copied daily and 1 large backup drive for TimeMachine.



    For my purposes at the moment it is rare that I run out of ram which is probably the only thing I'd want to upgrade at the moment. Aside from doing serious graphics rendering, which I don't do anyway, what it there to upgrade on my machine. The 2 Quad cores will have enough computational power for my needs for years to come.



    If I really need to be more productive on my MacPro I should have shorter breaks, spend less time talking shit to workmates or the number 1 best thing to increase productivity on a computer, go on a touch typing course. (developers can also save a hell of a lot of time by double checking their code for stupid syntax errors or silly mistakes before every time they have to spend time compiling and testing software that falls over with avoidable mistakes).
  • Reply 49 of 154
    hexorhexor Posts: 57member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post


    Granted, but my point remains.



    I guess what I'm saying is that if Apple doesn't come out with a video card upgrade path so we can use the new displays as well as a drop in processor upgrade or two at some point, there will be a lot of angry Mac Pro users out there.



    There IS a drop-in processor upgrade for the original Mac Pros. See Mac Pro processor upgrade
  • Reply 50 of 154
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Sabon View Post


    Just because the person that wrote the article is clueless does NOT mean that Apple is. Apple is VERY aware of everything that is happening including how we feel about different choices they make for their computers.



    Really? Do you think they're aware that many users (including me) are so pissed off waiting for the mac mini update that they're seriously considering building a hackintosh? Jobs once said it's better to cannibalize your own product line than have customers buy elsewhere, but I really don't think they've learned that lesson yet.



    ---------------------------------------------------------------



    APOSTROPHE: he's/she's/you're/it's

    NO APOSTROPHE: his/hers/yours/its



    Is this really so difficult?
  • Reply 51 of 154
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BlueDjinn View Post


    I have a 2.0 GHz 20" iMac G5 and a 1.86 GHz MacBook (first generation combo drive).



    The iMac is getting quite long in the tooth; I need an Intel machine for decent performance of software (Office '08, Adobe CS3) as well as for running Parallels. I also want a 24" display.



    I was planning on replacing the G5 iMac with whatever new 24" iMac they came out with at MacWorld, and was thrown for a loop when they didn't do so. Now I'm in a holding pattern. My options include:



    1. Upgrade current MacBook w/larger 3rd-party hard drive & DVD burner, get a 24" LCD, and sell the G5 iMac on eBay.



    COST: appx. $300 for upgrades, $300 for LCD, minus $500 for the iMac sale = appx. $100, but with a lot of nervousness about ripping apart the MacBook. Dirt cheap but the system would still be very low-end by MacIntel-era standards.



    2. Replace current MacBook with the new $1,000 model + LCD; sell off *both* the iMac and current MacBook.



    COST: appx. $1,000 MacBook, $250 AppleCare, $100 for HD upgrade, $300 for LCD = $1,650, minus perhaps $500 each for the two systems = around $650.



    3. Say "screw it" and buy the *current* 24" iMac, sell the G5 iMac and keep the current MacBook.



    COST: appx. $1,550 (refurb) + $250 AppleCare = $1,800 - $500 for selling off the G5 iMac = around $1,300.



    The third option has the ever-present risk that they'll release the iMac upgrade after all a couple of weeks after I buy it, of course.



    Patience
  • Reply 52 of 154
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by the_steve View Post


    Really? Do you think they're aware that many users (including me) are so pissed off waiting for the mac mini update that they're seriously considering building a hackintosh? Jobs once said it's better to cannibalize your own product line than have customers buy elsewhere, but I really don't think they've learned that lesson yet.



    Haven't looked at INTC lately, but I don't think there is a cutting edge chip coming and since the i7 is out, you have to wonder if Apple will release the Mac Pro now with i7 (now as in a few months) or wait until SNOW LEOPARD.



    On the flip side, if Snow addresses the hyperthreading that many app's on the PC can't use yet (especially audio/video, but will soon, = 2X, 3X performance), then we would see a huge increase with Snow if Apple has the hyperthreading ready and able.



    Let's hope they do as this will mean each thread will be seen as running on a separate core and it really does make a difference. Hyperthreading has been gone for quite some time.



    Let's hope it rocks. Windows 7 receiving a lot of hype too - should be an interesting year.
  • Reply 53 of 154
    pmjoepmjoe Posts: 565member
    Um, who cares. I'm still waiting for that Mac mini update everyone thought was happening weeks ago. Now they're posting rumors about an iMac that apparently isn't designed yet, because they don't even know which chips are going into it?
  • Reply 54 of 154
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post


    I don't understand how Apple is said to be "hesitating" on this.

    This isn't like deciding what flavour of ice cream cone to buy at Baskin Robbins.



    Apple had months of notice on whether to use 4 or 8 cores in the iMac, and the fact that a slight case redesign occurred would suggest that the decision was made. Either way, this isn't something that can be just left to the last minute.



    Perhaps a delay in the next Mac Pro would mean that the order of the upgrades would be problematic.

    But again, it's been known for months that the new Pros would be available in March/April.



    So the engineers are sitting around drinking starbucks discussing the merits of quad please give me a break. Apple doesn't flip a coin on when it will release a product it will be carefully planned. Also I would say maybe there will be a CTO for a quad core on the top end but the rest will be dual maybe a price drop??
  • Reply 55 of 154
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,419member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hypoluxa View Post


    It makes perfect sense for Apple to up the iMac to a quad-core chip. It is the midrange desktop system, therefor it should be a quad. Snow Leopard will shine on a quad core I bet, and then just make low-end Mac Pro an 8 core, so it can still be the king of the desktop hill. What do you all think?



    Wu must be on crack. Quad Cores are available in $600 PC. The iMac is not cannibalizing the Mac Pro where it really counts and that's in high end configuration where people need PCI-Express cards.



    I'm really stunned by how analysts like Wu probably are paid six figure salaries and deliver no useful information that I can see.



    Mac mini '09 - Core 2 Duo

    iMac '09 - Quad Core

    Mac Pro '09- Core i7 Xeon.



    Jeebus do they really have to make it more difficult than it really is?
  • Reply 56 of 154
    When it was rumored that Apple migh switch from PowerPC to Intel processors, Shaw Wu weighed in.:



    <p>Wu believed a switch to Intel could backfire and alienate some of Apple's most loyal customers, turning the Mac into a less differentiated and more commoditized platform. He said an often overlooked reason behind consumers choosing the Mac was its high-performance provided by PowerPC processors.



    <p>Source: http://www.appleinsider.com/articles..._unlikely.html
  • Reply 57 of 154
    virgil-tb2virgil-tb2 Posts: 1,416member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hexor View Post


    There IS a drop-in processor upgrade for the original Mac Pros. See Mac Pro processor upgrade



    Well I think this point is already almost beaten to death, but ...
    • That's the only processor upgrade I have heard about (I knew about it already).

    • It's "provided" by a third party (it's actually more of a surprise than a supported feature)

    • I don't have that machine I have the newer model

    My point is not about how I can get x, y, or z for my Mac Pro. It's the more general point that Apple sells this machine as an "upgradeable computer" and crows about it to some extent whenever people hit them for their sealed-box type computers (the rest of the product line).



    It is *technically* upgradeable, but Apple does not plan for it, does not suggest it, does not point the user to any manufacturers or upgrades, nor does it provide any "branded" or approved solutions for upgrading.



    The perfect example of this is the link you yourself provided. that processor *should* work when it's fitted to the first MacPro. The web site in question reports that it does. Apple however is silent on the issue. Any other computer company would at least publish a bulletin saying something to the effect of: "<processor x> can be bought from <company y> and dropped in as a replacement CPU." But apple is silent on the issue. They should also offer to upgrade it for you for a price just like any other computer place IMO.



    I'm not really pissed off or anything, I am happy with the machine as it is right now.



    I am a bit trepidatious however as to what will happen in the near future though as it seems from the rumour mill that Apple might (again!) be leaving this very capable and normally very upgradeable computer in yet another technological backwater.
  • Reply 58 of 154
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post


    Mac mini '09 - Core 2 Duo

    iMac '09 - Quad Core

    Mac Pro '09- Core i7 Xeon.



    Jeebus do they really have to make it more difficult than it really is?



    Those make sense, but I think the low end 20" iMac will probably come with a Core 2 Duo and then the higher-end models getting the 3 Core 2 Quad chips.
  • Reply 59 of 154
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by the_steve View Post


    Really? Do you think they're aware that many users (including me) are so pissed off waiting for the mac mini update that they're seriously considering building a hackintosh? Jobs once said it's better to cannibalize your own product line than have customers buy elsewhere, but I really don't think they've learned that lesson yet.



    Many people online threaten to get hackintoshes but I doubt the number is high enough that it is even noticeable in Apple's sales numbers.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post


    It is *technically* upgradeable, but Apple does not plan for it, does not suggest it, does not point the user to any manufacturers or upgrades, nor does it provide any "branded" or approved solutions for upgrading.



    Correct me if I'm wrong, but apple has never advertised their machines as having upgradable processors. Not any machine.



    You can upgrade the memory, hard drives, and optical drives, and you can add cards. It seems a bit silly to say the machine is not upgradable just because apple doesn't sell a processor upgrade. Have they ever offered one for any of their machines? I thought they were always third party options.
  • Reply 60 of 154
    frank777frank777 Posts: 5,839member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post


    Mac mini '09 - Core 2 Duo

    iMac '09 - Quad Core

    Mac Pro '09- Core i7 Xeon.



    Amen. Now Apple just has to ship any one of them. Please.
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