I don't know about SATA I / II, I'll leave that for other people to bicker about, but the SATA ports on my original Mac Pro can operate at 3Gbps rates, or at least that's what the System Profiler app says.
I don't know about SATA I / II, I'll leave that for other people to bicker about, but the SATA ports on my original Mac Pro can operate at 3Gbps rates, or at least that's what the System Profiler app says.
My iMac says the same thing. Operation speed=3 Gigabit
I don't know about SATA I / II, I'll leave that for other people to bicker about, but the SATA ports on my original Mac Pro can operate at 3Gbps rates, or at least that's what the System Profiler app says.
Yeah, I was just saying that the current Mac Pros do have SATA II (3.0) and that you don't have to wait for the next Mac Pro to get that feature. In fact I think every Mac Pro had SATA II. All G5s had SATA I.
The added advantage is that they can now claim 4-8 physical cores and 8-16 logical cores via SMT (simultaneous multi-threading)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Outsider
I think the price points will stay the same.
Common specs:
? Dual socket Core i7 Xeon
? 12 DIMM slots - DDR3, ECC, up to 48GB RAM (96GB with 8GB DIMMS)
? 4 PCIe 2.0 x16 slots
? Apple's first SLI implementation
? SATA II only; no PATA
? 2 Firewire 800; no 400
? Built in hardware in RAID IHC10R
Single 2.66GHz - $2,299
Dual 2.8GHz - $2,799
Dual 2.93GHz - $3,599
Dual 3.2GHz - $4,399
maybe a little less expensive due to the more basic RAM and standard x58 chipset:
Single 2.66GHz - $1,999
Dual 2.8GHz - $2,599
Dual 2.93GHz - $2,999
Dual 3.2GHz - $3,999
The X58 chipset doesn't support dual-processors. There will be no such thing as a Core i7 Xeon, it will be the 5500 series Xeon, with a particular chipset (dual QPI) that will probably get a 5500 name.
At the same (or so) clock, the gainestown cpus are more expensive than the current harpertown cpus so I expect a price increase no matter what. While the RAM will probably be a little less expensive per GB, it will be better to offer multiple of 3 capacities in two seperate banks (one per cpu) or at least 2 sticks per bank (dual-channel mode), the mobo actually costs more to manufacture, too.
current harpertown 2.66GHz $455, future gainestown 2.53GHz $747 DDR3-1066
current harpertown 2.80GHz $797, future gainestown 2.66GHz $958 DDR3-1333
current harpertown 3.00GHz $958, future gainestown 2.80GHz $1172 DDR3-1333
current harpertown 3.20GHz $1279, future gainestown 2.93GHz $1386 DDR3-1333
current harpertown 3.40GHz $1493, future gainestown 3.20GHz $1600 DDR3-1333
While the gainestown cpus will be more powerful than similarly priced harpertown cpus, I think that Apple would have to go down to 2.53GHz to be able to offer a Mac Pro at the same price as the current ones.
$2799 for the 2.53GHz model
$3999 for the 2.80GHz model
$4999+ for the 3.20GHz model
If Apple choose to have things simple, they would only use 2.66 cpus and up (same DDR3-1333 RAM). Those cpu cost the same as the 3.0GHz harpertown, so imagine the base price: no less than $2999 for a Mac Pro with dual 2.66GHz gainestown cpus and probably "just" 4GB RAM.
I don't know about SATA I / II, I'll leave that for other people to bicker about, but the SATA ports on my original Mac Pro can operate at 3Gbps rates, or at least that's what the System Profiler app says.
Quote:
Originally Posted by macxpress
My iMac says the same thing. Operation speed=3 Gigabit
It actually is called SATA/1.5 or SATA/3.0, there is no such thing as "SATA II" but unfortunately it entered the lexicon and will not go away. The vast majority of people are talking about SATA/3.0 Gps when they say "SATA II".
The Next standard is SATA/6.0 and no doubt many will call it SATA III.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM
So far that I've heard about, SSDs aren't choked by the bus yet.
Well, most singular SSDs aren't, but Intel's MLC-based X25s will do over 200MB/sec in sequential reads. So if you were to use two of these (or a 4+ disk RAID setup) on the same SATA link through a port multiplier or external eSATA setup you could easily saturate the link. I think for the next few years, SATA/6.0 will be of more use with eSATA in external raid setups..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Outsider
SSD drives connected directly to the PCIe bus are delivering excellent performance (700MB/sec reads and ~550MB/sec writes).
Well obviously the FusioIO isn't a widely used product, and there are many advantages lost when you stop using SATA/SAS and hook up drives to the PCIe bus.
I hope the New Mac Pro's use a smaller chasis design. The current generation, although stunning, is remarkably imposing and very heavy. Anyone know what the TDP is for the prospective CPU's?
Yeah, I was just saying that the current Mac Pros do have SATA II (3.0) and that you don't have to wait for the next Mac Pro to get that feature. In fact I think every Mac Pro had SATA II. All G5s had SATA I.
Ok. I wasn't sure if you were also considering the first Mac Pros in that or not, there are more differences than just the clock speeds and number of cores, but they're not that apparent at a glance.
While the gainestown cpus will be more powerful than similarly priced harpertown cpus, I think that Apple would have to go down to 2.53GHz to be able to offer a Mac Pro at the same price as the current ones.
I don't think they'll raise prices... No doubt the current CPUs were more expensive when the current Mac Pro was brand new. That seems to be how Apple always does it - they keep the prices the same throughout the lifetime of the product even though the components become cheaper and cheaper until the next update.
I doubt they'll raise prices either. I think Apple is fully aware that when large companies do their budgets at the end of the year to submit to their finance departments, they make basic assumptions with regards to how much a workstation will cost and how many they will need. It helps when you know you'll need to replace 8 computers that are coming off Applecare and need to be replaced, and you know how much to put aside for them.
The 4 Tylersburg chipsets will come in 4 variations, the 24D, 24S, 36D, 36S. S = single QPI bus and D = dual. The number refers to the PCIe lanes. A lot of the websites there refer to Tylersburg as X58 in general even when talking about the dual processor capable ones. I suspect that the D variations will adopt Intel's typical server/enterprise nomenclature; 5500X, 5500, etc.
I don't think they'll raise prices... No doubt the current CPUs were more expensive when the current Mac Pro was brand new. That seems to be how Apple always does it - they keep the prices the same throughout the lifetime of the product even though the components become cheaper and cheaper until the next update.
The Xeons used in the Mac Pro have never seen a price cut, meaning the prices I mentionned are not just current prices but also the price when the harpertowns were released. You can hope all you want of lower prices Mac Pro, but if Apple uses the nehalem DP architecture, either the clock will decrease or the prices will increase.
Ever since the PowerMac G5, the base price for Apple workstations has increase, if I remember well: $1499 (late 2004), $1999 for the last generation G5, $2199/2499 for the 1st gen Intel MP, $2299/2799 for the current harpertown generation. It wouldn't surprise me if it was $2499/2999 for nehalem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Outsider
I doubt they'll raise prices either. I think Apple is fully aware that when large companies do their budgets at the end of the year to submit to their finance departments, they make basic assumptions with regards to how much a workstation will cost and how many they will need. It helps when you know you'll need to replace 8 computers that are coming off Applecare and need to be replaced, and you know how much to put aside for them.
The 4 Tylersburg chipsets will come in 4 variations, the 24D, 24S, 36D, 36S. S = single QPI bus and D = dual. The number refers to the PCIe lanes. A lot of the websites there refer to Tylersburg as X58 in general even when talking about the dual processor capable ones. I suspect that the D variations will adopt Intel's typical server/enterprise nomenclature; 5500X, 5500, etc.
If you want to take full advantage of the architecture, you will use a "D" chipset with two cpus. There have been very few articles about tylersburg and nehalem Xeons, just because not a lot of them are in circulation yet, while the X58 chipset and Core i7 cpus are already available and have been circulating for at least 3 months. Good web sites don't call Tylersburg: X58, as X58 is a product name (Intel® X58 Express Chipset) and Tylersburg is the codename for server/workstation platforms.
24/36S are primarily for Bloomfield cpus (Core i7 or Xeon X3500 series cpus = 1 QPI link), 24/36D are primarily for the Xeon 5500 series cpus with 2 QPI links. But you can use a 24/36D with a single bloomfield cpu if you want to address more PCIe slots (via another 24/36S).
Thanks for the replies guys, it definitely cleared a lot.
So I assume the current Mac Pro's have SATA Revision 1.x, when is the speculative date for SATA 3.x?
Thanks to murch's link it looks to be the second quarter. Will the new Mac Pro get it? I sure hope so, but who knows? But they currently have Rev 2, not 1.
Quote:
Four dual threaded cores processing eight threads? That's quite a boost from the current Xeon server grade chipsets. Hyper-threading, DDR3, Intel's memory controller utilizing point to point wiring, and obtaining these improved speeds while lowering overall power consumption is impressive. Unfortunately this means I will be drooling longingly at my local Apple store, while my mind quickly calculates the price difference between my current system and a new 8 core unit *sigh*. \
Wait 'till the end of the year, then you can calculate for Intel's new 8 core cpu's.
I don't know about SATA I / II, I'll leave that for other people to bicker about, but the SATA ports on my original Mac Pro can operate at 3Gbps rates, or at least that's what the System Profiler app says.
Yeah, I was just saying that the current Mac Pros do have SATA II (3.0) and that you don't have to wait for the next Mac Pro to get that feature. In fact I think every Mac Pro had SATA II. All G5s had SATA I.
ugh. I just bought an 8 core 2.8 system a few months ago. I know I'm dreaming, however I was hoping any new chipsets might "fit" the socket of the current system. It seems based on these specs the new Mac Pro's will have completely new logic boards corresponding with new processors. Oh well, you can't stifle technology just to keep yourself up-to-date. If the specs live up to their hype, I may have to bite the bullet and buy one (anyone interested in an 8 core Mac Pro with 8 GB's of RAM?).
Side note, a couple of questions:
1. What is SATA II compared to SATA (assuming their is a difference)?
2. What RAM will this new system accept? DDR3?
3. With the new integrated system, what is the defining difference between the proposed new Mac Pro versus the current system?
Yay, just after I get laid off, so just in time to make me feel better.
Can't wait.
...but wait...."Sunday"? Not a Tuesday?
Does anyone know of dev teams paring up for iPhone apps, and if so where they are meeting via the internet? Don't know what Tony does but that may help him, in one capacity or another as well as help me. I know I would like to find a group that is tackling iPhone app development as well as a broad spectrum of iPhone games. I have searched via Google, but no luck or maybe I just need to refine my query.
Also I wonder how long it will take for these types of chips, albeit more a mobile verity, to make their way into the iMac line? Are there mobile XEON chips? I thought that the XEONs were all server and higher end where heat is not as much an issue. So it will take some time for chips with some of these technologies to make it into the iMac line, but how long?
I *just* bought a Dell Core i7 (6gb ram, Radeon 4850) from Microcenter for $899.
Looks like I won't be upgrading my Mac Pro 2.66 Quad Intel (Bought in 2006) unless/until Apple comes out with a machine near this pricepoint, or betters it with dual Core i7 (no motherbaords for Dual Core i7s have been introduced yet.)
That Core i7 iMac that never emerged (rumors were on this site) would have gotten my money (even at $1499), but I can't see a reason to update unless they use the Xeon verison of the Core i7, and finally add a Bluray burner on the $2299 low-end Mac Pro.
Comments
No, the Mac Pro out now do have SATA II.
I don't know about SATA I / II, I'll leave that for other people to bicker about, but the SATA ports on my original Mac Pro can operate at 3Gbps rates, or at least that's what the System Profiler app says.
I don't know about SATA I / II, I'll leave that for other people to bicker about, but the SATA ports on my original Mac Pro can operate at 3Gbps rates, or at least that's what the System Profiler app says.
My iMac says the same thing. Operation speed=3 Gigabit
I don't know about SATA I / II, I'll leave that for other people to bicker about, but the SATA ports on my original Mac Pro can operate at 3Gbps rates, or at least that's what the System Profiler app says.
Yeah, I was just saying that the current Mac Pros do have SATA II (3.0) and that you don't have to wait for the next Mac Pro to get that feature. In fact I think every Mac Pro had SATA II. All G5s had SATA I.
If I'm Apple I keep the same pricepoint
2.93Ghz Xeon Nehalem for $2799.
The added advantage is that they can now claim 4-8 physical cores and 8-16 logical cores via SMT (simultaneous multi-threading)
I think the price points will stay the same.
Common specs:
? Dual socket Core i7 Xeon
? 12 DIMM slots - DDR3, ECC, up to 48GB RAM (96GB with 8GB DIMMS)
? 4 PCIe 2.0 x16 slots
? Apple's first SLI implementation
? SATA II only; no PATA
? 2 Firewire 800; no 400
? Built in hardware in RAID IHC10R
Single 2.66GHz - $2,299
Dual 2.8GHz - $2,799
Dual 2.93GHz - $3,599
Dual 3.2GHz - $4,399
maybe a little less expensive due to the more basic RAM and standard x58 chipset:
Single 2.66GHz - $1,999
Dual 2.8GHz - $2,599
Dual 2.93GHz - $2,999
Dual 3.2GHz - $3,999
The X58 chipset doesn't support dual-processors. There will be no such thing as a Core i7 Xeon, it will be the 5500 series Xeon, with a particular chipset (dual QPI) that will probably get a 5500 name.
At the same (or so) clock, the gainestown cpus are more expensive than the current harpertown cpus so I expect a price increase no matter what. While the RAM will probably be a little less expensive per GB, it will be better to offer multiple of 3 capacities in two seperate banks (one per cpu) or at least 2 sticks per bank (dual-channel mode), the mobo actually costs more to manufacture, too.
current harpertown 2.66GHz $455, future gainestown 2.53GHz $747 DDR3-1066
current harpertown 2.80GHz $797, future gainestown 2.66GHz $958 DDR3-1333
current harpertown 3.00GHz $958, future gainestown 2.80GHz $1172 DDR3-1333
current harpertown 3.20GHz $1279, future gainestown 2.93GHz $1386 DDR3-1333
current harpertown 3.40GHz $1493, future gainestown 3.20GHz $1600 DDR3-1333
While the gainestown cpus will be more powerful than similarly priced harpertown cpus, I think that Apple would have to go down to 2.53GHz to be able to offer a Mac Pro at the same price as the current ones.
$2799 for the 2.53GHz model
$3999 for the 2.80GHz model
$4999+ for the 3.20GHz model
If Apple choose to have things simple, they would only use 2.66 cpus and up (same DDR3-1333 RAM). Those cpu cost the same as the 3.0GHz harpertown, so imagine the base price: no less than $2999 for a Mac Pro with dual 2.66GHz gainestown cpus and probably "just" 4GB RAM.
I don't know about SATA I / II, I'll leave that for other people to bicker about, but the SATA ports on my original Mac Pro can operate at 3Gbps rates, or at least that's what the System Profiler app says.
My iMac says the same thing. Operation speed=3 Gigabit
It actually is called SATA/1.5 or SATA/3.0, there is no such thing as "SATA II" but unfortunately it entered the lexicon and will not go away. The vast majority of people are talking about SATA/3.0 Gps when they say "SATA II".
The Next standard is SATA/6.0 and no doubt many will call it SATA III.
So far that I've heard about, SSDs aren't choked by the bus yet.
Well, most singular SSDs aren't, but Intel's MLC-based X25s will do over 200MB/sec in sequential reads. So if you were to use two of these (or a 4+ disk RAID setup) on the same SATA link through a port multiplier or external eSATA setup you could easily saturate the link. I think for the next few years, SATA/6.0 will be of more use with eSATA in external raid setups..
SSD drives connected directly to the PCIe bus are delivering excellent performance (700MB/sec reads and ~550MB/sec writes).
Check out FusionIO. (PDF)
Well obviously the FusioIO isn't a widely used product, and there are many advantages lost when you stop using SATA/SAS and hook up drives to the PCIe bus.
Yeah, I was just saying that the current Mac Pros do have SATA II (3.0) and that you don't have to wait for the next Mac Pro to get that feature. In fact I think every Mac Pro had SATA II. All G5s had SATA I.
Ok. I wasn't sure if you were also considering the first Mac Pros in that or not, there are more differences than just the clock speeds and number of cores, but they're not that apparent at a glance.
T
While the gainestown cpus will be more powerful than similarly priced harpertown cpus, I think that Apple would have to go down to 2.53GHz to be able to offer a Mac Pro at the same price as the current ones.
I don't think they'll raise prices... No doubt the current CPUs were more expensive when the current Mac Pro was brand new. That seems to be how Apple always does it - they keep the prices the same throughout the lifetime of the product even though the components become cheaper and cheaper until the next update.
The 4 Tylersburg chipsets will come in 4 variations, the 24D, 24S, 36D, 36S. S = single QPI bus and D = dual. The number refers to the PCIe lanes. A lot of the websites there refer to Tylersburg as X58 in general even when talking about the dual processor capable ones. I suspect that the D variations will adopt Intel's typical server/enterprise nomenclature; 5500X, 5500, etc.
I think you mean 'jibe.'
"Excuse me, stewardess. I speak jibe..."
I don't think they'll raise prices... No doubt the current CPUs were more expensive when the current Mac Pro was brand new. That seems to be how Apple always does it - they keep the prices the same throughout the lifetime of the product even though the components become cheaper and cheaper until the next update.
The Xeons used in the Mac Pro have never seen a price cut, meaning the prices I mentionned are not just current prices but also the price when the harpertowns were released. You can hope all you want of lower prices Mac Pro, but if Apple uses the nehalem DP architecture, either the clock will decrease or the prices will increase.
Ever since the PowerMac G5, the base price for Apple workstations has increase, if I remember well: $1499 (late 2004), $1999 for the last generation G5, $2199/2499 for the 1st gen Intel MP, $2299/2799 for the current harpertown generation. It wouldn't surprise me if it was $2499/2999 for nehalem.
I doubt they'll raise prices either. I think Apple is fully aware that when large companies do their budgets at the end of the year to submit to their finance departments, they make basic assumptions with regards to how much a workstation will cost and how many they will need. It helps when you know you'll need to replace 8 computers that are coming off Applecare and need to be replaced, and you know how much to put aside for them.
The 4 Tylersburg chipsets will come in 4 variations, the 24D, 24S, 36D, 36S. S = single QPI bus and D = dual. The number refers to the PCIe lanes. A lot of the websites there refer to Tylersburg as X58 in general even when talking about the dual processor capable ones. I suspect that the D variations will adopt Intel's typical server/enterprise nomenclature; 5500X, 5500, etc.
If you want to take full advantage of the architecture, you will use a "D" chipset with two cpus. There have been very few articles about tylersburg and nehalem Xeons, just because not a lot of them are in circulation yet, while the X58 chipset and Core i7 cpus are already available and have been circulating for at least 3 months. Good web sites don't call Tylersburg: X58, as X58 is a product name (Intel® X58 Express Chipset) and Tylersburg is the codename for server/workstation platforms.
24/36S are primarily for Bloomfield cpus (Core i7 or Xeon X3500 series cpus = 1 QPI link), 24/36D are primarily for the Xeon 5500 series cpus with 2 QPI links. But you can use a 24/36D with a single bloomfield cpu if you want to address more PCIe slots (via another 24/36S).
Here are some examples.
Thanks for the replies guys, it definitely cleared a lot.
So I assume the current Mac Pro's have SATA Revision 1.x, when is the speculative date for SATA 3.x?
Thanks to murch's link it looks to be the second quarter. Will the new Mac Pro get it? I sure hope so, but who knows? But they currently have Rev 2, not 1.
Four dual threaded cores processing eight threads? That's quite a boost from the current Xeon server grade chipsets. Hyper-threading, DDR3, Intel's memory controller utilizing point to point wiring, and obtaining these improved speeds while lowering overall power consumption is impressive. Unfortunately this means I will be drooling longingly at my local Apple store, while my mind quickly calculates the price difference between my current system and a new 8 core unit *sigh*.
Wait 'till the end of the year, then you can calculate for Intel's new 8 core cpu's.
Right, I don't remember any Xeon system using non-ECC memory.
The new chips and chipsets don't require ECC memory. The company can go either way.
So far that I've heard about, SSDs aren't choked by the bus yet.
They're like HDD's. One won't do it. Two may not, but surely a four drive RAID will.
I don't know about SATA I / II, I'll leave that for other people to bicker about, but the SATA ports on my original Mac Pro can operate at 3Gbps rates, or at least that's what the System Profiler app says.
Apple went from Rev 1 to Rev 2, thats why.
Yeah, I was just saying that the current Mac Pros do have SATA II (3.0) and that you don't have to wait for the next Mac Pro to get that feature. In fact I think every Mac Pro had SATA II. All G5s had SATA I.
You are correct sir!
Makes you wonder why they didn't design it that way the first time around?
ugh. I just bought an 8 core 2.8 system a few months ago. I know I'm dreaming, however I was hoping any new chipsets might "fit" the socket of the current system. It seems based on these specs the new Mac Pro's will have completely new logic boards corresponding with new processors. Oh well, you can't stifle technology just to keep yourself up-to-date. If the specs live up to their hype, I may have to bite the bullet and buy one (anyone interested in an 8 core Mac Pro with 8 GB's of RAM?).
Side note, a couple of questions:
1. What is SATA II compared to SATA (assuming their is a difference)?
2. What RAM will this new system accept? DDR3?
3. With the new integrated system, what is the defining difference between the proposed new Mac Pro versus the current system?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SATA_2#SATA_3Gb.2Fs
Theoretical throughput rates of 3Gbps [actual 300MB/s] versus 1.5Gbps [actual 150MB/s].
Yay, just after I get laid off, so just in time to make me feel better.
Can't wait.
...but wait...."Sunday"? Not a Tuesday?
Does anyone know of dev teams paring up for iPhone apps, and if so where they are meeting via the internet? Don't know what Tony does but that may help him, in one capacity or another as well as help me. I know I would like to find a group that is tackling iPhone app development as well as a broad spectrum of iPhone games. I have searched via Google, but no luck or maybe I just need to refine my query.
Also I wonder how long it will take for these types of chips, albeit more a mobile verity, to make their way into the iMac line? Are there mobile XEON chips? I thought that the XEONs were all server and higher end where heat is not as much an issue. So it will take some time for chips with some of these technologies to make it into the iMac line, but how long?
Anyone know anything on either of these fronts?
Looks like I won't be upgrading my Mac Pro 2.66 Quad Intel (Bought in 2006) unless/until Apple comes out with a machine near this pricepoint, or betters it with dual Core i7 (no motherbaords for Dual Core i7s have been introduced yet.)
That Core i7 iMac that never emerged (rumors were on this site) would have gotten my money (even at $1499), but I can't see a reason to update unless they use the Xeon verison of the Core i7, and finally add a Bluray burner on the $2299 low-end Mac Pro.