You only get it with pay monthly, which is a rip off as you already pay a premium call rate.
Would be great if iPhone was available on all 3G networks in the uk. I don't want to leave Orange. However if Apple rolls it out over the networks once the contract is over, it'll be 3rd or 4th gen, lovely.
How is it a rip off? If you are on contract then you pay a fixed amount every month whereas on PAYG there is no guarantee of any level of revenue from the user whatsoever, unless they start to charge for voicemail usage, maybe you would like that then?.
Ask yourself the question, if you were O2 would you spend money on providing visual voicemail for someone who may only spend £10 a year?
You only get it with pay monthly, which is a rip off as you already pay a premium call rate.
Would be great if iPhone was available on all 3G networks in the uk. I don't want to leave Orange. However if Apple rolls it out over the networks once the contract is over, it'll be 3rd or 4th gen, lovely.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Workshy
Still only one carrier in UK for iPhone.
Among all the iphone monthly plans in the whole world, the UK iphone plans are one of the cheapest.
The iphone being available to all the networks in a single country is over-rated. Just look at Italy --- it's available for multiple networks, but the plans still suck big time (starts with idiotic 250 MB data allowance).
How is it a rip off? If you are on contract then you pay a fixed amount every month whereas on PAYG there is no guarantee of any level of revenue from the user whatsoever, unless they start to charge for voicemail usage, maybe you would like that then?.
Ask yourself the question, if you were O2 would you spend money on providing visual voicemail for someone who may only spend £10 a year?
They provide unlimited data and wifi for a year, so I can't see what big a difference adding visual voicemail would do!
Among all the iphone monthly plans in the whole world, the UK iphone plans are one of the cheapest.
It only appears that way, because their exchange rate is in the crapper...
Quote:
The iphone being available to all the networks in a single country is over-rated. Just look at Italy --- it's available for multiple networks, but the plans still suck big time (starts with idiotic 250 MB data allowance).
You can't compare rates between countries. For example Austrians will laugh about German plans, iPhone or not. You have to compare the iPhone plans to every other plan in that country.
Here in Germany, the rates are okay for T-Mobile. But, T-Mobile is the most expensive carrier, so even a regular T-Mobile plan is rather expensive. Sure, they also have the best network, but I don't need reception in every small village. I'd rather go for a little less reception and 1/2 or 1/3 of the price. So, yay consumer choice...
Not surprising for a country where it is illegal to work more than 35 hours per week.
Funny, cause I just happen to live and work in here...
I do work far more than 35 hours a week (more than 50 actually), just like a lot of other french people...
Quote:
Originally Posted by irnchriz
Exactly, fucking Communism thru the back door. These fucking assholes burn thru 6 billion+ pounds per year that they CAN'T account for and we are expected to trust them?!?!?!?!?
Fucking clowns.
Please, don't tell me you still believe in this French=Communists crap... God I wonder in which cave where you stupid haters have been living (and reproducing) duting the last 30 years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimMcDosh
Like anyone really cares what the stupid french kangaroo courts say! I mean really.
More seriously (and beyond all the hate speech above, glad to see ppl love us, cuz we don't give a f... about others), this is interesting news for both Apple and potential iPhone owners that were waiting for it to be available with other French carriers. Now let's see if Apple deals with Bouygues and SFR will be more interesting than Orange.
Not surprising for a country where it is illegal to work more than 35 hours per week.
I do work more than 50 hours per week like most French people. You could have argued that we have more holidays than most other nations (except Germany...).
Quote:
Originally Posted by irnchriz
Exactly, fucking Communism thru the back door. These fucking assholes burn thru 6 billion+ pounds per year that they CAN'T account for and we are expected to trust them?!?!?!?!?
Fucking clowns.
Obvioulsy you understand nothing about economy. In the end, the USA have the biggest debt ever (which they owe to the Chinese in fact) for one single reason : they can print $...
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime."
was the FT's answer to that first ruling? iphone 3g 8gb price became 79 eur for the week 18-24 dec 2008, 16gb - 99 eur. I liked resolutions like that. Bouygues' 3G? it doesn't exist...
It only appears that way, because their exchange rate is in the crapper...
You can't compare rates between countries. For example Austrians will laugh about German plans, iPhone or not. You have to compare the iPhone plans to every other plan in that country.
Here in Germany, the rates are okay for T-Mobile. But, T-Mobile is the most expensive carrier, so even a regular T-Mobile plan is rather expensive. Sure, they also have the best network, but I don't need reception in every small village. I'd rather go for a little less reception and 1/2 or 1/3 of the price. So, yay consumer choice...
The UK iphone plans are very cheap (compare to the rest of the G7 countries) --- even before considering the exchange rate situation.
That's my whole point --- if the country itself has a healthy mobile industry with enough competition, then it's going to okey. The German telecom market is disfunctional --- the German government still owns a big chunk of DT and has been protecting it against foreign competitions. The EC has been repeatedly suing the German government on government subsidies that benefit DT or shielding DT from competition.
While I like the decision, as all these exclusivity contracts/restriction of uses, do not have any benefit for the customer, I believe that the decision will have been quite different if Bouygues have had the exclusivity contract initially.
One has to remember that Bouygues is the very good friend of Sarkosy, and they have been helping each other making tons of money with devious contracts and sales of French assets to Bouygues, only for the French government to buy it a few years later at a very increased price.
So, when can I go to a BP gas station and get Fina gas if I choose? How about going to Auchan and getting Cora brand chips? I am a consumer merde! Give me what I want!
You're analogy is totally flawed. Of course you can only get BP gas in a BP gas station, the same way you can only buy GAP clothes in a GAP store. Clearly a company has the right to restrict what is sold in their own stores.
The equivalent of the Apple / Orange exclusive handset / carrier deal (and many like it around the world) would be like Honda saying you can only use BP gas in their cars. It's one company saying you can only use their product in conjunction with a specific different company's product. That totally stifles competition and ought to be illegal everywhere. The French ruling is a triumph for competition and consumer choice and I welcome it.
You're analogy is totally flawed. Of course you can only get BP gas in a BP gas station, the same way you can only buy GAP clothes in a GAP store. Clearly a company has the right to restrict what is sold in their own stores.
The equivalent of the Apple / Orange exclusive handset / carrier deal (and many like it around the world) would be like Honda saying you can only use BP gas in their cars. It's one company saying you can only use their product in conjunction with a specific different company's product. That totally stifles competition and ought to be illegal everywhere. The French ruling is a triumph for competition and consumer choice and I welcome it.
Michael.
Plenty of car dealers have been bundling thousand dollar "gas coupons" with a new car purchase --- nothing wrong with that. What about electric cars --- you can only get electricity from your local utility company.
The French ruling is a triumph of government protection of French owned companies against foreign competition and does nothing for consumer choice.
The level of competition differs greatly where the little city of Hong Kong has 6 carriers, UK has 5 carriers, US has 4 carriers, France/Canada has 3 carriers and Norway has 2 carriers.
What do you know? The best iphone hardware price and monthly plan in the whole world is Hong Kong. UK basically has the best iphone rate in the whole G7. US followed closely after that with their iphone rates.
The countries we kept on hearing complaints on iphones rates are France, Canada and Norway.
Your thinking is penny wise and dollar stupid. Let's see if you like the government allowing AT&T Wireless to swallow up T-Mobile USA and we end up with only 3 carriers in the US. No amount of simlocking laws and DMCA exemptions are going to help consumers at that point.
Plenty of car dealers have been bundling thousand dollar "gas coupons" with a new car purchase --- nothing wrong with that.
Absolutely nothing wrong with that, but you can still buy gas at a different gas station if you want to. The phone equivalent would be Apple selling an iPhone with 1000 free AT&T minutes, which you can only use with an AT&T SIM of course, but not preventing you from using a different SIM from a different carrier if that's what you as a consumer happened to want to do.
Quote:
Your thinking is penny wise and dollar stupid. Let's see if you like the government allowing AT&T Wireless to swallow up T-Mobile USA and we end up with only 3 carriers in the US. No amount of simlocking laws and DMCA exemptions are going to help consumers at that point.
What the hell does any of that have to do with exclusive handset/carrier deals??? You're mixing up two completely different topics.
There is a good dozen of those here... Well, they want badly to call themselves carriers...
Those are MVNO's --- not real carriers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelab
Absolutely nothing wrong with that, but you can still buy gas at a different gas station if you want to. The phone equivalent would be Apple selling an iPhone with 1000 free AT&T minutes, which you can only use with an AT&T SIM of course, but not preventing you from using a different SIM from a different carrier if that's what you as a consumer happened to want to do.
What the hell does any of that have to do with exclusive handset/carrier deals??? You're mixing up two completely different topics.
Michael.
You are able to obtain unlocking codes for the iphone from Orange France (which was the example in the originating comment) --- so in reality, my example is perfectly fine. Your AT&T argument can be explained by the electric car example.
No --- I am not mixing up the two topics at all. The real DISEASE is the lack of competition. A THINLY related SYMPTOM is your precious exclusive handset/carrier deals/simlocking geek argument.
In Hong Kong's example, Hutchison 3G HK is the exclusive iphone carrier in Hong Kong. There is no real simlocking laws in Hong Kong. But Hong Kong co-incidentally is the best iphone deal in the whole world --- even better than countries like Italy and Australia where they have multiple iphone carriers and much better than France where they have all kinds of simlocking laws specifying when and how unlocking codes are given.
So what is so special about Hong Kong --- they treat the disease by giving out 6 wireless carrier licenses. That's it --- a telecom market with 6 carriers will force the exclusive iphone carrier to offer the cheapest fully unlocked iphone hardware price and monthly plan int he world.
You treat the real disease --- then everything will be fine.
Sure, the more carriers there are the more competition there is, but as with other things that require significant physical infrastructure (electricity, water, rail roads, phone landlines) there comes a point where having more competitors starts to get absurd, especially if they don't at least share some of their infrastructure (eg cell towers in the case of mobile carriers).
However, completely independently of how many carriers you have, exclusive carrier handset deals reduce competition. They should be outlawed. If people weren't tied to specific carriers because of exclusive handset deals they'd be able to switch carriers and thus there'd be more incentive for the carriers to keep their customers by other means such as improving services or reducing prices.
Sure, the more carriers there are the more competition there is, but as with other things that require significant physical infrastructure (electricity, water, rail roads, phone landlines) there comes a point where having more competitors starts to get absurd, especially if they don't at least share some of their infrastructure (eg cell towers in the case of mobile carriers).
However, completely independently of how many carriers you have, exclusive carrier handset deals reduce competition. They should be outlawed. If people weren't tied to specific carriers because of exclusive handset deals they'd be able to switch carriers and thus there'd be more incentive for the carriers to keep their customers by other means such as improving services or reducing prices.
Michael.
France (with only 3 national carriers and all French owned) is nowhere near that point yet. US had 6 national carriers before the pro-business Republican administration started okaying mergers left and right. Hong Kong still has 6 carriers in a small city. 6 carriers are not an absurd number of competitors.
You just have to watch right now --- Vodafone and Hutchison 3 just announceing that they are merging in Australia, thereby reducing 4 national carriers down to 3 national carriers. It's not going to be pretty for Australian consumers.
I like how you rationalize the conclusion where exclusive handset deals should be outlawed. Just look at the worldwide iphone distribution --- basically every country in the whole world allows exclusive handset deals --- only France (with their idiotic treating the symptom instead of facing the actual disease) and UAE (protecting their people from monopolistic Apple, yet screwing the rest of the world with their oil oligopoly OPEC) are voicing their "concern".
Just look at the rest of the world --- they don't even have ETF's. It doesn't matter whether there is no exclusive handset deal and there is no simlock of the phone --- the average consumer ain't going to switch to another carrier because they have to pay out the rest of the contract to their former carrier.
Comments
The best iphone deals in the whole world is Hong Kong (6 carriers) and UK (5 carriers).
Still only one carrier in UK for iPhone. http://forums.appleinsider.com/image...embarassed.gif
You only get it with pay monthly, which is a rip off as you already pay a premium call rate.
Would be great if iPhone was available on all 3G networks in the uk. I don't want to leave Orange. However if Apple rolls it out over the networks once the contract is over, it'll be 3rd or 4th gen, lovely.
How is it a rip off? If you are on contract then you pay a fixed amount every month whereas on PAYG there is no guarantee of any level of revenue from the user whatsoever, unless they start to charge for voicemail usage, maybe you would like that then?.
Ask yourself the question, if you were O2 would you spend money on providing visual voicemail for someone who may only spend £10 a year?
You only get it with pay monthly, which is a rip off as you already pay a premium call rate.
Would be great if iPhone was available on all 3G networks in the uk. I don't want to leave Orange. However if Apple rolls it out over the networks once the contract is over, it'll be 3rd or 4th gen, lovely.
Still only one carrier in UK for iPhone.
Among all the iphone monthly plans in the whole world, the UK iphone plans are one of the cheapest.
The iphone being available to all the networks in a single country is over-rated. Just look at Italy --- it's available for multiple networks, but the plans still suck big time (starts with idiotic 250 MB data allowance).
How is it a rip off? If you are on contract then you pay a fixed amount every month whereas on PAYG there is no guarantee of any level of revenue from the user whatsoever, unless they start to charge for voicemail usage, maybe you would like that then?.
Ask yourself the question, if you were O2 would you spend money on providing visual voicemail for someone who may only spend £10 a year?
They provide unlimited data and wifi for a year, so I can't see what big a difference adding visual voicemail would do!
Among all the iphone monthly plans in the whole world, the UK iphone plans are one of the cheapest.
It only appears that way, because their exchange rate is in the crapper...
The iphone being available to all the networks in a single country is over-rated. Just look at Italy --- it's available for multiple networks, but the plans still suck big time (starts with idiotic 250 MB data allowance).
You can't compare rates between countries. For example Austrians will laugh about German plans, iPhone or not. You have to compare the iPhone plans to every other plan in that country.
Here in Germany, the rates are okay for T-Mobile. But, T-Mobile is the most expensive carrier, so even a regular T-Mobile plan is rather expensive. Sure, they also have the best network, but I don't need reception in every small village. I'd rather go for a little less reception and 1/2 or 1/3 of the price. So, yay consumer choice...
Not surprising for a country where it is illegal to work more than 35 hours per week.
Funny, cause I just happen to live and work in here...
I do work far more than 35 hours a week (more than 50 actually), just like a lot of other french people...
Exactly, fucking Communism thru the back door. These fucking assholes burn thru 6 billion+ pounds per year that they CAN'T account for and we are expected to trust them?!?!?!?!?
Fucking clowns.
Please, don't tell me you still believe in this French=Communists crap... God I wonder in which cave where you stupid haters have been living (and reproducing) duting the last 30 years.
Like anyone really cares what the stupid french kangaroo courts say! I mean really.
RT
www.online-anonymity.at.tc
You care, since you "debate" about it.
More seriously (and beyond all the hate speech above, glad to see ppl love us, cuz we don't give a f... about others), this is interesting news for both Apple and potential iPhone owners that were waiting for it to be available with other French carriers. Now let's see if Apple deals with Bouygues and SFR will be more interesting than Orange.
Originally Posted by Cubert
Not surprising for a country where it is illegal to work more than 35 hours per week.
I do work more than 50 hours per week like most French people. You could have argued that we have more holidays than most other nations (except Germany...).
Originally Posted by irnchriz
Exactly, fucking Communism thru the back door. These fucking assholes burn thru 6 billion+ pounds per year that they CAN'T account for and we are expected to trust them?!?!?!?!?
Fucking clowns.
Obvioulsy you understand nothing about economy. In the end, the USA have the biggest debt ever (which they owe to the Chinese in fact) for one single reason : they can print $...
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime."
? Mark Twain (The Innocents Abroad/Roughing It)
It only appears that way, because their exchange rate is in the crapper...
You can't compare rates between countries. For example Austrians will laugh about German plans, iPhone or not. You have to compare the iPhone plans to every other plan in that country.
Here in Germany, the rates are okay for T-Mobile. But, T-Mobile is the most expensive carrier, so even a regular T-Mobile plan is rather expensive. Sure, they also have the best network, but I don't need reception in every small village. I'd rather go for a little less reception and 1/2 or 1/3 of the price. So, yay consumer choice...
The UK iphone plans are very cheap (compare to the rest of the G7 countries) --- even before considering the exchange rate situation.
That's my whole point --- if the country itself has a healthy mobile industry with enough competition, then it's going to okey. The German telecom market is disfunctional --- the German government still owns a big chunk of DT and has been protecting it against foreign competitions. The EC has been repeatedly suing the German government on government subsidies that benefit DT or shielding DT from competition.
One has to remember that Bouygues is the very good friend of Sarkosy, and they have been helping each other making tons of money with devious contracts and sales of French assets to Bouygues, only for the French government to buy it a few years later at a very increased price.
So, when can I go to a BP gas station and get Fina gas if I choose? How about going to Auchan and getting Cora brand chips? I am a consumer merde! Give me what I want!
You're analogy is totally flawed. Of course you can only get BP gas in a BP gas station, the same way you can only buy GAP clothes in a GAP store. Clearly a company has the right to restrict what is sold in their own stores.
The equivalent of the Apple / Orange exclusive handset / carrier deal (and many like it around the world) would be like Honda saying you can only use BP gas in their cars. It's one company saying you can only use their product in conjunction with a specific different company's product. That totally stifles competition and ought to be illegal everywhere. The French ruling is a triumph for competition and consumer choice and I welcome it.
Michael.
You're analogy is totally flawed. Of course you can only get BP gas in a BP gas station, the same way you can only buy GAP clothes in a GAP store. Clearly a company has the right to restrict what is sold in their own stores.
The equivalent of the Apple / Orange exclusive handset / carrier deal (and many like it around the world) would be like Honda saying you can only use BP gas in their cars. It's one company saying you can only use their product in conjunction with a specific different company's product. That totally stifles competition and ought to be illegal everywhere. The French ruling is a triumph for competition and consumer choice and I welcome it.
Michael.
Plenty of car dealers have been bundling thousand dollar "gas coupons" with a new car purchase --- nothing wrong with that. What about electric cars --- you can only get electricity from your local utility company.
The French ruling is a triumph of government protection of French owned companies against foreign competition and does nothing for consumer choice.
The level of competition differs greatly where the little city of Hong Kong has 6 carriers, UK has 5 carriers, US has 4 carriers, France/Canada has 3 carriers and Norway has 2 carriers.
What do you know? The best iphone hardware price and monthly plan in the whole world is Hong Kong. UK basically has the best iphone rate in the whole G7. US followed closely after that with their iphone rates.
The countries we kept on hearing complaints on iphones rates are France, Canada and Norway.
Your thinking is penny wise and dollar stupid. Let's see if you like the government allowing AT&T Wireless to swallow up T-Mobile USA and we end up with only 3 carriers in the US. No amount of simlocking laws and DMCA exemptions are going to help consumers at that point.
France/Canada has 3 carriers
There is a good dozen of those here... Well, they want badly to call themselves carriers...
Plenty of car dealers have been bundling thousand dollar "gas coupons" with a new car purchase --- nothing wrong with that.
Absolutely nothing wrong with that, but you can still buy gas at a different gas station if you want to. The phone equivalent would be Apple selling an iPhone with 1000 free AT&T minutes, which you can only use with an AT&T SIM of course, but not preventing you from using a different SIM from a different carrier if that's what you as a consumer happened to want to do.
Your thinking is penny wise and dollar stupid. Let's see if you like the government allowing AT&T Wireless to swallow up T-Mobile USA and we end up with only 3 carriers in the US. No amount of simlocking laws and DMCA exemptions are going to help consumers at that point.
What the hell does any of that have to do with exclusive handset/carrier deals??? You're mixing up two completely different topics.
Michael.
There is a good dozen of those here... Well, they want badly to call themselves carriers...
Those are MVNO's --- not real carriers.
Absolutely nothing wrong with that, but you can still buy gas at a different gas station if you want to. The phone equivalent would be Apple selling an iPhone with 1000 free AT&T minutes, which you can only use with an AT&T SIM of course, but not preventing you from using a different SIM from a different carrier if that's what you as a consumer happened to want to do.
What the hell does any of that have to do with exclusive handset/carrier deals??? You're mixing up two completely different topics.
Michael.
You are able to obtain unlocking codes for the iphone from Orange France (which was the example in the originating comment) --- so in reality, my example is perfectly fine. Your AT&T argument can be explained by the electric car example.
No --- I am not mixing up the two topics at all. The real DISEASE is the lack of competition. A THINLY related SYMPTOM is your precious exclusive handset/carrier deals/simlocking geek argument.
In Hong Kong's example, Hutchison 3G HK is the exclusive iphone carrier in Hong Kong. There is no real simlocking laws in Hong Kong. But Hong Kong co-incidentally is the best iphone deal in the whole world --- even better than countries like Italy and Australia where they have multiple iphone carriers and much better than France where they have all kinds of simlocking laws specifying when and how unlocking codes are given.
So what is so special about Hong Kong --- they treat the disease by giving out 6 wireless carrier licenses. That's it --- a telecom market with 6 carriers will force the exclusive iphone carrier to offer the cheapest fully unlocked iphone hardware price and monthly plan int he world.
You treat the real disease --- then everything will be fine.
Those are MVNO's --- not real carriers.
true... alas...
No --- I am not mixing up the two topics at all.
Yes, unfortunately you are mixing up two topics.
Sure, the more carriers there are the more competition there is, but as with other things that require significant physical infrastructure (electricity, water, rail roads, phone landlines) there comes a point where having more competitors starts to get absurd, especially if they don't at least share some of their infrastructure (eg cell towers in the case of mobile carriers).
However, completely independently of how many carriers you have, exclusive carrier handset deals reduce competition. They should be outlawed. If people weren't tied to specific carriers because of exclusive handset deals they'd be able to switch carriers and thus there'd be more incentive for the carriers to keep their customers by other means such as improving services or reducing prices.
Michael.
Yes, unfortunately you are mixing up two topics.
Sure, the more carriers there are the more competition there is, but as with other things that require significant physical infrastructure (electricity, water, rail roads, phone landlines) there comes a point where having more competitors starts to get absurd, especially if they don't at least share some of their infrastructure (eg cell towers in the case of mobile carriers).
However, completely independently of how many carriers you have, exclusive carrier handset deals reduce competition. They should be outlawed. If people weren't tied to specific carriers because of exclusive handset deals they'd be able to switch carriers and thus there'd be more incentive for the carriers to keep their customers by other means such as improving services or reducing prices.
Michael.
France (with only 3 national carriers and all French owned) is nowhere near that point yet. US had 6 national carriers before the pro-business Republican administration started okaying mergers left and right. Hong Kong still has 6 carriers in a small city. 6 carriers are not an absurd number of competitors.
You just have to watch right now --- Vodafone and Hutchison 3 just announceing that they are merging in Australia, thereby reducing 4 national carriers down to 3 national carriers. It's not going to be pretty for Australian consumers.
I like how you rationalize the conclusion where exclusive handset deals should be outlawed. Just look at the worldwide iphone distribution --- basically every country in the whole world allows exclusive handset deals --- only France (with their idiotic treating the symptom instead of facing the actual disease) and UAE (protecting their people from monopolistic Apple, yet screwing the rest of the world with their oil oligopoly OPEC) are voicing their "concern".
Just look at the rest of the world --- they don't even have ETF's. It doesn't matter whether there is no exclusive handset deal and there is no simlock of the phone --- the average consumer ain't going to switch to another carrier because they have to pay out the rest of the contract to their former carrier.